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Drill Press

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Dustyflannel

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First, I want to thank you ALL for the fantastic input and feedback. It's invaluable to get info from folks with actual experience with these devises. After reading a ton of literature, I was thinking I'd go with the KBDA-27D because the nema enclosure was built-in. BUT, When I returned to the Amaz link to make my purchase, the two they had in stock, were sold already... So, I began investigating a few more options. After lots more reading I finally settled on the KBDF-27D part# 9675. I had skipped over this model previously because the listing said "220v input" but, when I read the manual and the data sheet, they stated 115/230 input. I have read large portions of this manual and believe it will suit my needs. Yeah, I'll still have to build the enclosure... My eldest is taking his second year of calc and physics (trying to get him some "real world" with this project). The manual was difficult to find (on most sites the link was broken). I'm attaching the manual and data sheet. I've also posted a screenshot of the specific pages. If it's not too much trouble, would someone please check my math? I hope I ordered the correct VFD. TY
Data Sheet --> https://motorsandcontrol.com//files/master/kbdfdatasheet.pdf
Manual --> https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1352/6141/files/kbdf_manual.pdf?6248739497305466582

If the VFD looks acceptable, I need to round up wires/connectors(looks like I'll need some shielded wires), switches, potentiometer(5k?), I'll need help here.
On this page, I don't see any numbers that match the VFD model that I ordered --> https://www.kb-controls.com/category.sc?categoryId=9
Then there's this site with a broken link to an accessories doc. --> https://motorsandcontrol.com/kb-ele...ut-ip-20-enclosure-variable-frequency-drives/

Thank you all so much!
 

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grant00

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Looks to me like you're right on with the 27D. It has 1.5HP and 5.5 amps rating at 115V input which is more than your motor of 3/4 HP and 3 amps (y)

See below where I pulled from the manual for wiring your potentiometer and forward/reverse switch to. 5k looks correct for your speed potentiometer. You'll have to read through the programming of the multi-function input terminals to see about setting and terminal wiring for the for/rev switch pedal and set the programming up for that.
1642116474330.png
 

Davefr

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Those Genesis VFD's look decent and the manual looks pretty thorough. It'll probably be just fine. However I don't see anything on Youtube but there are tons of videos on the Teco's. To me that would be important for a VFD newbie but maybe not for you.
 

shawhite

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First, I want to thank you ALL for the fantastic input and feedback. It's invaluable to get info from folks with actual experience with these devises. After reading a ton of literature, I was thinking I'd go with the KBDA-27D because the nema enclosure was built-in. BUT, When I returned to the Amaz link to make my purchase, the two they had in stock, were sold already... So, I began investigating a few more options. After lots more reading I finally settled on the KBDF-27D part# 9675. I had skipped over this model previously because the listing said "220v input" but, when I read the manual and the data sheet, they stated 115/230 input. I have read large portions of this manual and believe it will suit my needs. Yeah, I'll still have to build the enclosure... My eldest is taking his second year of calc and physics (trying to get him some "real world" with this project). The manual was difficult to find (on most sites the link was broken). I'm attaching the manual and data sheet. I've also posted a screenshot of the specific pages. If it's not too much trouble, would someone please check my math? I hope I ordered the correct VFD. TY
Data Sheet --> https://motorsandcontrol.com//files/master/kbdfdatasheet.pdf
Manual --> https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1352/6141/files/kbdf_manual.pdf?6248739497305466582

If the VFD looks acceptable, I need to round up wires/connectors(looks like I'll need some shielded wires), switches, potentiometer(5k?), I'll need help here.
On this page, I don't see any numbers that match the VFD model that I ordered --> https://www.kb-controls.com/category.sc?categoryId=9
Then there's this site with a broken link to an accessories doc. --> https://motorsandcontrol.com/kb-ele...ut-ip-20-enclosure-variable-frequency-drives/

Thank you all so much!
In my opinion you could have stepped down to the KBDF-24d or even 24 unless you see the need for 220v input. I have a kbdf-27d running a Wilton/Arboga motor plate on it shows 4.8 amps. I run it off 120v and have never had an issue. KB drives support is pretty good so if you have any issues give them a call. Good luck with the new drill press.
 
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Dustyflannel

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Looks to me like you're right on with the 27D. It has 1.5HP and 5.5 amps rating at 115V input which is more than your motor of 3/4 HP and 3 amps (y)

See below where I pulled from the manual for wiring your potentiometer and forward/reverse switch to. 5k looks correct for your speed potentiometer. You'll have to read through the programming of the multi-function input terminals to see about setting and terminal wiring for the for/rev switch pedal and set the programming up for that.
1642116474330.png
Thank you for the confirmation and the input. About the Potentiometer: It seems there are several ways to wire that in. One way is that the potentiometer(is there a short version of the word potentiometer?) can be used as a forward/reverse dial. While the dial is at 50%(1/2 way around), the motor is stopped. If the dial is rotated counter-clockwise the motor spins in reverse. If the dial is rotated clock-wise the motor rotates fwd. I don't know that I'll set mine up that way, but it sounded cool. Maybe all VFD's can do that, or maybe I'm misreading the manual altogether. I'll keep reading and rounding up parts while I await the VFD's arrival. It'll be a week in transit. Thanks again!
 
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Dustyflannel

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In my opinion you could have stepped down to the KBDF-24d or even 24 unless you see the need for 220v input. I have a kbdf-27d running a Wilton/Arboga motor plate on it shows 4.8 amps. I run it off 120v and have never had an issue. KB drives support is pretty good so if you have any issues give them a call. Good luck with the new drill press.
Thank you for the reply. You're probably correct that I oversized a bit.. I just wanted to make sure I didn't undersize. Will I need to change settings as to not overload the motor? Also, as I was reading the literature I noticed that these are designed and assembled in the US. Whenever I can, I try to keep Americans working. I also had your earlier comment in mind about KB's service and turn around time. That was good and useful info, Thank you!
 
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Dustyflannel

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Those Genesis VFD's look decent and the manual looks pretty thorough. It'll probably be just fine. However I don't see anything on Youtube but there are tons of videos on the Teco's. To me that would be important for a VFD newbie but maybe not for you.
Thanks Dave for all the previous photos, comments and input, it's been very helpful! I agree that there is a lot of great vid's on the Teco, I watched several. The main issue I had, was that the Teco was a cat's whisker away from 6" deep. I searched a long time for an enclosure that was 7" deep to no avail. I was concerned about squeezing it into a box that tightly (Plus the customer service thing). You're right on the newbie thing, it concerns me also. Hopefully I can figure it out(maybe with bit help:)). Thanks again for all the great input and feedback! Very helpful.
 
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Dustyflannel

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I have KBAC-24D, KBAC-27D, and KBDA-29 all in service at the moment. I installed the reversing switch on all my KBAC models (extremely quick and easy) and the KBDA models have it integrated into the control panel. When either are running you can go directly from run to reverse (but doing so at a high speed can put a ton of load on your motor as the windings are energized in the opposite order). The cable ports are on the bottom; I use waterproof ports like these: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0993CWBGV/?tag=atomicindus08-20. No way for a child to get a finger inside the drive! These ones are all NEMA 4X sealed for dust and water which matters less on a drill press but is essential on any machine creating conductive grinding dust and a good idea on any machine creating a lot of wood dust. I've attached photos of the KBAC-24D attached to a 1.5 hp motor on my Royal 18 drill press and the KBDA-29 attached to a 3 hp motor on my 2x72 belt grinder.

(Aside: please ignore the black and white wires dangling out of the bottom of the VFD on the drill press. They're a 120V AC break off to power the 12V DC power supply connected to the RPM readout. I've been meaning to wire it in properly but it hasn't happened yet.)

IMG_2877.jpg

IMG_2878.jpg
Callum, thanks so much for the photos, comments and input. It's all been very helpful! I too, think that I will look into setting up an RPM readout. Do you recommend? Thanks!
 
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Dustyflannel

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Does anyone, who has one of these set up on a DP, think it's necessary to have an aux fan on the bottom of the motor to prevent overheat while using low RPMs? I don't envision myself drilling a pile of steel for hours. I've never overheated a motor, but I've never had control over the motor speed to a degree that would jeopardize the engineered cooling system. Thanks
 

shawhite

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Thank you for the reply. You're probably correct that I oversized a bit.. I just wanted to make sure I didn't undersize. Will I need to change settings as to not overload the motor? Also, as I was reading the literature I noticed that these are designed and assembled in the US. Whenever I can, I try to keep Americans working. I also had your earlier comment in mind about KB's service and turn around time. That was good and useful info, Thank you!
When you commission the drive you will enter all the motor parameters but the drive will only supply what the motor demands.
 

PoorUB

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Does anyone, who has one of these set up on a DP, think it's necessary to have an aux fan on the bottom of the motor to prevent overheat while using low RPMs? I don't envision myself drilling a pile of steel for hours. I've never overheated a motor, but I've never had control over the motor speed to a degree that would jeopardize the engineered cooling system. Thanks
Run the belt speed down and don't worry about it. If you need to slow the motor down to get the RPM you want as long as you are not running it under load for long durations, like 15 minutes at a time I doubt it will be a problem. I drill steel with mine all the time and with a drill press it runs for a few seconds, maybe a minute, then it is off for quite a while, unless you are drilling a bunch of holes in a row, but that doesn't happen very often. It probably will be on for 15-30 seconds and off for 5 minutes or more
 
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Dustyflannel

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I found this on page 73 of the manual :sneaky: (seems it should be on page 1 :unsure:). Does anyone know if there will be a manufacture date on the VFD? How would I know if it's been in storage for over a year. I don't know if they still make these and the manual was written in 2013. Thanks.

KBDF-27D-Bus-Cap-Recon_pg-73.png
 

shawhite

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I found this on page 73 of the manual :sneaky: (seems it should be on page 1 :unsure:). Does anyone know if there will be a manufacture date on the VFD? How would I know if it's been in storage for over a year. I don't know if they still make these and the manual was written in 2013. Thanks.
These drives are still in production. There is a sticker with a date code on the side of the drive. You can call KB and give them the number and they will tell you mouth and year the drive was made. If you are worried just leave the drive plugged in for an 1hr before you run it (it will probably take you 15min to program it anyway)
 

Davefr

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Does anyone, who has one of these set up on a DP, think it's necessary to have an aux fan on the bottom of the motor to prevent overheat while using low RPMs? I don't envision myself drilling a pile of steel for hours. I've never overheated a motor, but I've never had control over the motor speed to a degree that would jeopardize the engineered cooling system. Thanks
I've run some DP motors very slow and have never detected any overheating. However most of my drilling is short duration. (a couple minutes max.) I set the machine at the highest speed range and use the VFD for all the speed control and always have enough torque for low speed drilling. If I didn't then I'd have more lower ranges to choose from. With your unit it's as simple as turning the VS wheel and picking the sweet spot for your usage and let the VFD do the rest.

P.S. I wouldn't wire the pot for reverse. Just add a remote switch or use the VFD control panel to change directions. I prefer to have the full range of the pot. I have yet to use reverse but your usage could be different.
 
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Dustyflannel

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These drives are still in production. There is a sticker with a date code on the side of the drive. You can call KB and give them the number and they will tell you mouth and year the drive was made. If you are worried just leave the drive plugged in for an 1hr before you run it (it will probably take you 15min to program it anyway)
Thank you Shawhite, the info about the sticker and/or just calling KB is good to know. And you're right, I should just do it anyway. About that.. Do they mean: Only connect the input power line and no other wires? or Can you wire it all normally and then just turn it on and let it set there for at least an hour? Thanks much.
 
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Dustyflannel

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I've run some DP motors very slow and have never detected any overheating. However most of my drilling is short duration. (a couple minutes max.) I set the machine at the highest speed range and use the VFD for all the speed control and always have enough torque for low speed drilling. If I didn't then I'd have more lower ranges to choose from. With your unit it's as simple as turning the VS wheel and picking the sweet spot for your usage and let the VFD do the rest.

P.S. I wouldn't wire the pot for reverse. Just add a remote switch or use the VFD control panel to change directions. I prefer to have the full range of the pot. I have yet to use reverse but your usage could be different.
Dave, thank you for the feedback on the motor and the pot. The pot rev/fwd sounds neat, but I couldn't think of a practical use to justify it (at least not in my shop). Thanks again.
 

shawhite

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Thank you Shawhite, the info about the sticker and/or just calling KB is good to know. And you're right, I should just do it anyway. About that.. Do they mean: Only connect the input power line and no other wires? or Can you wire it all normally and then just turn it on and let it set there for at least an hour? Thanks much.
When you plug the drive in it will come on there is no way to turn it off without cutting power to it. While you are inputting all your desired setting the drive will be in the on/stopped state. If you suspect the drive has been sitting for over a year they say to leave the drive in this state for 1hr before running. I usually don’t connect the motor until after I have setup my drive completely but to each their own.
 
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Dustyflannel

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The motor on my drill press is not inverter rated and it has been running for years.

I am not sure when this "inverter rated" motor thing appeared. all I know is over the years with my job I have installed VFD's on hundreds of motors the were not labeled inverter rated.

I wonder if the rated motors come with shaft grounding. Inverters do some weird things with motors and I forget the proper description, but electricity wants to flow from the rotor through the bearings and slowly pit and ruin the bearings. Manufacturers started adding a ground brush of some sort that rides on the shaft to drain that electricity instead of going through the bearings.

I haven't added shaft grounding to my motor, but I should.
Hi PoorUB, I've been doing a lot of reading and watching some videos on proper wiring of the VFD. I'm not trying to sound like an expert here in any way, I personally have no experience with VFD's. I'm just trying to figure out how to get power in and out of my VFD so I can use my new DP. Anyway, the pitting of the bearings( or the raceways) I believe is called fluting. I am currently making my way through a video/webinar about such things and I thought of your comment about the "shaft grounding" on your motor. In the question/answer part of the video, this comes up. The question is asked at 24 mins. and 50 secs. Now, the question is not specifically about fluting or motor damage, but in the answer, he mentions filters and shaft grounding at 26:06. I thought this may interest you.
Here's a link if you're interested

It may turn out that buying a properly shielded wire might be cheaper than adding shaft grounding. I have no idea. I don't know what shaft grounding costs. I have looked at shielded wire and for the short lengths we're dealing with, the cost seems insignificant. Plus, the guy in the video states that shaft grounding, "will improve it, but not to the point of it not being an issue".

This whole shielding thing seems difficult to nail down. Specifically, the termination of the shield. I've read a paper that within itself seems to be contradictory. And this paper was directly from the manufacturer. Some seem to terminate at the ingress of the enclosure, either by conductive gland or shield termination kit. Some say pass the wire through a normal cable gland and use a termination kit to terminate at the VFD, and still some say pass through a cable gland and just cut the copper foil shield off near the VFD..., who knows.

Still working on it... Thanks all

By the way, my VFD arrived! :)(y) I couldn't find a manufacture date on the devise.
 

PoorUB

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Proper control cable grounding is not the same as shaft grounding. Two different tissues. You should use shielded wire and ground which ever end they recommend. It is still recommended to have shaft grounding.

How much do you plan to use this drill press? Once in while on the weekends? Or 4-5 hours per day? If you are a weekend warrior and just use it occasionally don't worry about shaft grounding. You won't run it enough hours to cause a problem. I have my drill press on a VFD for around 10 years and no shaft grounding and no issues with the bearings.

I remember installing VFDs before shaft gounding was recomended. We would have motors out running 24/7/365 that would run for 3-4 months continously before the bearings started making noise. How long before you put 1500-2000 hours on your drill press motor?
 
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Dustyflannel

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Thanks PoorUB, I'm not sure what you mean by "control cable". Do you mean remote switches and pot? I'm talking about the cable that goes from the VFD to the motor. This is the cable that causes problems, and apparently it needs to be shielded and properly terminated on both ends.

I have a project I'm working on presently which is why I finally broke down and got a DP. I'll probably run the DP for 8-10 hrs. over a couple days but, then I may not use it for a week, or it would be limited. Generally speaking, I'm not worried about shaft grounding. Accumulating 2000 hrs would take the rest of my life, ha.



 

PoorUB

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Thanks PoorUB, I'm not sure what you mean by "control cable". Do you mean remote switches and pot? I'm talking about the cable that goes from the VFD to the motor. This is the cable that causes problems, and apparently it needs to be shielded and properly terminated on both ends.
I belive you are misunderstanding something. The high voltage wiring does not need to be shielded. You do need to run a proper ground from the VFD to the motor. The VFD produces all sorts of weird high frequency voltages and the ground wire between the motor and VFD is important, as is the electrical ground normally wired back to the breaker panel.

The control cable I mention is from the remote control box with control switches and pot if you use one. That cable needs to be shielded and the shield grounded at one end only, I forget which end.
 
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Dustyflannel

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In my opinion you could have stepped down to the KBDF-24d or even 24 unless you see the need for 220v input. I have a kbdf-27d running a Wilton/Arboga motor plate on it shows 4.8 amps. I run it off 120v and have never had an issue. KB drives support is pretty good so if you have any issues give them a call. Good luck with the new drill press.
Hi Shawhite, You have the same VFD that I purchased- kbdf-27d and you've been running it for a while. You said you're running it on 120v with no issues. Question: Is it possible for you to tell me what size breaker you are using? I am studying the manual and it states 25amp.(see attached). I know that my wiring is 12-2 with 20amp breakers. I'm wondering if I'm going to need to run 10 gauge for a 25-30amp breaker(cost probably $150 for wire) or if maybe you're running a 20amp breaker and have had no issues with the amp draw? Or, I could return the vfd and(like you said) downsize to the kbdf-24d or 24 so I can avoid rewiring? Your experience with the device is greatly appreciated! Thanks so much.

Manual-pg15-table 3.png
 

CallumRD1

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Hi Shawhite, You have the same VFD that I purchased- kbdf-27d and you've been running it for a while. You said you're running it on 120v with no issues. Question: Is it possible for you to tell me what size breaker you are using? I am studying the manual and it states 25amp.(see attached). I know that my wiring is 12-2 with 20amp breakers. I'm wondering if I'm going to need to run 10 gauge for a 25-30amp breaker(cost probably $150 for wire) or if maybe you're running a 20amp breaker and have had no issues with the amp draw? Or, I could return the vfd and(like you said) downsize to the kbdf-24d or 24 so I can avoid rewiring? Your experience with the device is greatly appreciated! Thanks so much.

Manual-pg15-table 3.png
You'll be fine on a 20 amp circuit. There's a pot in the VFD called current limit that allows you to dial back the current if you need to. I ran a 1.5 hp motor on my first 2x72 belt grinder off a KBAC-27D and a 15 amp 120V circuit for years with no trouble. At the default settings I measured it pulling 14.5 amps when I was fully bogging down the motor. And if you're really tight for current because you have other loads on the circuit you can just change the internal selector from 1.5 hp to 1 hp which will reduce the current draw by a third (although at the cost of motor torque).
 

shawhite

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You'll be fine on a 20 amp circuit. There's a pot in the VFD called current limit that allows you to dial back the current if you need to. I ran a 1.5 hp motor on my first 2x72 belt grinder off a KBAC-27D and a 15 amp 120V circuit for years with no trouble. At the default settings I measured it pulling 14.5 amps when I was fully bogging down the motor. And if you're really tight for current because you have other loads on the circuit you can just change the internal selector from 1.5 hp to 1 hp which will reduce the current draw by a third (although at the cost of motor torque).
I am running on 20A have never had an issue but it is a dedicated circuit which I alternate between the drill press and welder depending on which I need at the moment. CallumRD1 is right on the money with his response. Not to mention your motor should be about half the rated output of that drive. Here is a picture of the sticker KB will need to give you production date(sorry it’s a little blurry)
 

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PoorUB

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I agree with running it off a 20 amp circuit. Keep in mind the amp rating is for a fully loaded motor and it might not ever get to the full rated amp draw.

The Teco I ordered has a full load of something like 23 amps opps, I looked again, 19 amps! The reason I went with a 120 input is so I can plug it in any where. If I needed a dedicated circuit I would have went with 240 volt.
 
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PoorUB

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Pus Dusty's motor is a 3/4 HP and draws 3 amps on 208 3 PH. The VFD is rated for 1-1/2 HP and over 6 amps so with his motor fully loaded it will draw much less, probably 12-13 amps.
 
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Dustyflannel

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You'll be fine on a 20 amp circuit. There's a pot in the VFD called current limit that allows you to dial back the current if you need to. I ran a 1.5 hp motor on my first 2x72 belt grinder off a KBAC-27D and a 15 amp 120V circuit for years with no trouble. At the default settings I measured it pulling 14.5 amps when I was fully bogging down the motor. And if you're really tight for current because you have other loads on the circuit you can just change the internal selector from 1.5 hp to 1 hp which will reduce the current draw by a third (although at the cost of motor torque).
Thanks a bunch CallumRD1. Your personal experience and the info on the current limit is much appreciated. I don't think I'll have to mess with the internal selector as there isn't much else on this circuit, but it's good to know. Thanks again!
 
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Dustyflannel

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I am running on 20A have never had an issue but it is a dedicated circuit which I alternate between the drill press and welder depending on which I need at the moment. CallumRD1 is right on the money with his response. Not to mention your motor should be about half the rated output of that drive. Here is a picture of the sticker KB will need to give you production date(sorry it’s a little blurry)
Shawhite, Thanks so much for the feedback, and taking the time to round up and post that photo. I found that sticker on my VFD(image). I didn't want to run a dedicated circuit if I didn't really need one, and it's great to have someone confirm that it's not necessary. I kinda figured with my 3/4 hp it'd be okay, but with no personal VFD experience of my own, I was unsure. Very grateful, Thank you.
 

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Dustyflannel

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I agree with running it off a 20 amp circuit. Keep in mind the amp rating is for a fully loaded motor and it might not ever get to the full rated amp draw.

The Teco I ordered has a full load of something like 23 amps opps, I looked again, 19 amps! The reason I went with a 120 input is so I can plug it in any where. If I needed a dedicated circuit I would have went with 240 volt.
I hear you on that. I also wanted to plug in anywhere. Thanks PoorUB.
 
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Dustyflannel

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Pus Dusty's motor is a 3/4 HP and draws 3 amps on 208 3 PH. The VFD is rated for 1-1/2 HP and over 6 amps so with his motor fully loaded it will draw much less, probably 12-13 amps.
Thanks PoorUB, I agree. Plus, most likely, I won't be running it that hard.. most likely. :)
 
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Dustyflannel

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I'm trying to round up a power cord. On page 22, table 5 of the manual. They state: the max allowable conductor is 14 AWG. That'd be like 15 amps... am I wrong?

KBDF-27D-pg22-Manual.png14 AWG NEC.png
 

PoorUB

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I would use 12, but I think 14 would be fine too. Remember, you will not load the drive to the max amps. Plus it is not a constant duty cycle.
 
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Dustyflannel

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12 awg is what I used and it fits in the lugs fine. I could probably get 10 to fit.
12 awg was my original plan(or possibly 10). I don't know why they recommend 14. Anyway, I think I'll go with the 12 awg. I'm just going to check the lugs to make sure they haven't downsized them. Thanks much!
 
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Dustyflannel

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I would use 12, but I think 14 would be fine too. Remember, you will not load the drive to the max amps. Plus it is not a constant duty cycle.
Thanks PoorUB, I think I'll use the 12 after I check the fit in the lugs.
 

CallumRD1

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12 awg was my original plan(or possibly 10). I don't know why they recommend 14. Anyway, I think I'll go with the 12 awg. I'm just going to check the lugs to make sure they haven't downsized them. Thanks much!
14 gauge is fine for runs at 15 amps. If it's just an 8' cord attached to the vfd going to 12 gauge in the wall you could comfortably pull more than 15 amps without issue on that 14 gauge cord.
 
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Dustyflannel

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14 gauge is fine for runs at 15 amps. If it's just an 8' cord attached to the vfd going to 12 gauge in the wall you could comfortably pull more than 15 amps without issue on that 14 gauge cord.
Thanks Callum, I was thinking of using a 12' cord minimum as it's 4' just to get to the floor. Also, I would like to add a separate power switch and that would add some feet to the run of wire. I would also like to add a work light. Any thoughts on whether this light should be kept on separate power or can I add it into the system? Thanks
 

CallumRD1

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Messages
339
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Thanks Callum, I was thinking of using a 12' cord minimum as it's 4' just to get to the floor. Also, I would like to add a separate power switch and that would add some feet to the run of wire. I would also like to add a work light. Any thoughts on whether this light should be kept on separate power or can I add it into the system? Thanks
If you're on a 20 amp circuit lights will be fine. You'll only hit that amount of current draw if you have a 1.5 hp motor and you're absolutely stalling it. Any less powerful motor won't come close to 20 amps.
 
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Dustyflannel

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If you're on a 20 amp circuit lights will be fine. You'll only hit that amount of current draw if you have a 1.5 hp motor and you're absolutely stalling it. Any less powerful motor won't come close to 20 amps.
Thank you. My motor is 3/4 hp, so no issue there.
 
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