Above 1200 Sq/FT Eastern Washington Workshop

[slodat]

Got back late this evening. Decided to check out the XL. It’s a BIG box:



Packed really well..


A few minutes of minor assembly:


Then run through various calibrations:


Then 90 minutes in support chat. The left Z axis stepper seems to have seized since it left the factory. They say they haven’t seen this failure. Because of this they need a few days to decide what they want to do. Support had me remove all the fasteners to lift the heat bed to verify the stepper does not turn.

This thing was a lot of money. And it has been nearly two years since I ordered it. (20 months I think.) A few paths forward were thrown out there by the support agent- I return, they evaluate, then either repair or send another. This would take 4-8 weeks. They send a motor and I replace.. but they don’t have instructions on replacing a Z motor. Even the kits come with the Z axis towers assembled.

Definitely leaving a bad taste in my mouth..

 

[MadeByMiller]

Got back late this evening. Decided to check out the XL. It’s a BIG box:



Packed really well..


A few minutes of minor assembly:


Then run through various calibrations:


Then 90 minutes in support chat. The left Z axis stepper seems to have seized since it left the factory. They say they haven’t seen this failure. Because of this they need a few days to decide what they want to do. Support had me remove all the fasteners to lift the heat bed to verify the stepper does not turn.

This thing was a lot of money. And it has been nearly two years since I ordered it. (20 months I think.) A few paths forward were thrown out there by the support agent- I return, they evaluate, then either repair or send another. This would take 4-8 weeks. They send a motor and I replace.. but they don’t have instructions on replacing a Z motor. Even the kits come with the Z axis towers assembled.

Definitely leaving a bad taste in my mouth..

Oh boy, sorry to see the problem straight out of the box. What a buzzkill!

 

[broinkrist]

Bummer about the issues with the XL. I was pretty excited about it when they announced due to the large build volume and dual extruders. Big parts = more awesome. I used to print on a Makerbot Z18 all the time back in the day when it was new and it was awesome to print some crazy large things.

Hoping for a good resolution with Prusa as I was looking at an XL also for the future to use along side my MK3.

Just reading through your whole thread and epic doesn't even begin to describe what you've accomplished.

 

[rattle_snake]

your whole thread and epic doesn't even begin to describe what you've accomplished.

well said.

 

[slodat]

Oh boy, sorry to see the problem straight out of the box. What a buzzkill!

It’s really disappointing. Trying to be patient with their process. I don’t understand why a replacement motor isn’t already on the way.

Bummer about the issues with the XL. I was pretty excited about it when they announced due to the large build volume and dual extruders. Big parts = more awesome. I used to print on a Makerbot Z18 all the time back in the day when it was new and it was awesome to print some crazy large things.

Hoping for a good resolution with Prusa as I was looking at an XL also for the future to use along side my MK3.

Just reading through your whole thread and epic doesn't even begin to describe what you've accomplished.

Thank you for taking the time to read the thread, contribute to the conversation, and the kind words. I really appreciate it! The shop has become something different than what I originally pictured, but only slightly. It was always my dream, intention, plan, and goal to get to a place where I was working from my shop full time. I’m

well said.

Thank you sir!

 

[slodat]

I’m an effort to not derail @Rattlesnake thread, I’m posting here. Topic came up about nice to have (must have?) M12 and M18 tools and I mentioned the extended reach M12 3/8 ratchet. Got some PM’s about them. This is my take.. I’ve had the more standard M12 Fuel 3/8 ratchet for a couple years or more. I use it mostly in the machine shop on machine setups and such. It has been great. I haven’t worked on a car in years, and that’s probably important in this conversation.

Two ratchets I’m talking about:





I much prefer the extended reach. The head is significantly smaller and it fits into a lot more places where the powered ratchet really shines. Neither has nut busting torque, and that’s okay because they aren’t meant to. The extended reach can spin a fastener in a spot not much else will, and it’s fast to boot. It’s not an inexpensive tool. I do use it often in my line of work and I wouldn’t want to be without it.

 

[rattle_snake]

I’m an effort to not derail @Rattlesnake thread, I’m posting here. Topic came up about must have M12 and M18 tool

Thanks. but now that I'm invested in m12, I need an extended reach ratchet?

I see I have near clone on the site now. I use the '_' character, as a nerdy software type would do. but I'm more of a hardware guy.

 

[slodat]

Thanks. but now that I'm invested in m12, I need an extended reach ratchet?

I see I have near clone on the site now. I use the '_' character, as a nerdy software type would do. but I'm more of a hardware guy.

Oof. Good catch, Justin. I really like the extended reach. I buy most of my Milwaukee bare tools from Home Depot these days. They give veterans 10% off, they ship fast and free, and they have stock.

Also, a really helpful Home Depot tools department employee turned me on to clearance battery combo: 3.0ah and 6.0ah for $126 on clearance. I bought both they had. Website shows it at $152.

 

[slodat]

I was in the Prusa tech support chat late last night. The chat conversations take forever. Well over an hour each time. They sent a replacement motor this morning. They don’t have instructions on removing and replacing the motor. They said to get in the chat when it gets here. I’ll have 10+ hours in this by the time the motor is replaced. They are definitely trying. It’s mostly disappointment and frustration, along with the time. They have not offered to replace the printer. Only for me to ship to them for repair. It took 14 days to get here. So, that would a month in travel time plus however long it takes them to repair. And, I’m not convinced it would make that round trip unharmed.

The longer it sits the more I realize how expensive it is. Kind of a head **** honestly. If it worked, that wouldn’t be how I was looking at it.

Anyway… short version is they have shipped a motor. It’s hard to tell how long DHL will take to get it here. My previous Prusa orders were shipped FedEx if I recall correctly, and they were quite fast in transit time.

 

[slodat]

Ugh. Sorry to have vented the frustrations here. Replacement stepper is on the way. Tracking shows it will be here next Friday.

I helped a great friend with an off-road project yesterday. He needed a 12 degree bend in a piece of 1” DOM for his steering box swap on a 70’s Ford truck he’s putting together. Neither of us have a tubing bender. Once we took a look at things I suggested we need a die for bending. He left the shop with a slug of 3.5” aluminum and returned with this:



He’s a machinist and has a home shop of his own. He did a great job for a one use tool. We laid things out in the hydraulic press like so:



The HF 50T press is really good for the cost of entry.



We hit the bend centerline, and angle he was going for. He was a very happy camper.

I always enjoy this kind of thing. Great way to spend a few minutes with folks.

 

[slodat]

Installed photo of the steering arm:



It’s only purpose is to get the steering back together so he can get it on a trailer to move it. He’s obviously got work to do around the leaf spring.

I was going through my travel toolboxes and realized I needed a way to protect, store, and organize the discs for the 4.5”/5” angle grinder. Came up with this:



It worked out quite nicely! Hopefully this instagram link to the video works..

Shop Tool Company on Instagram: "Came up with this travel case for 4.5”/5” grinding discs, cutoff wheels, etc. Magnets hold it together. Should keep them in good shape in my travel tool box. Especially when shipped or checked baggage on the airlines.

16 likes, 2 comments - shoptoolco on July 16, 2023: "Came up with this travel case for 4.5”/5” grinding discs, cutoff wheels, etc. Magnets hold it together. Should keep them in good shape in my travel tool box. Especially when shipped or checked baggage on the airlines. ⁣ #shoptoolco⁣...

www.instagram.com

 

[rvieceli]

@slodat remember CD cases?

Ron

 

[slodat]

@slodat remember CD cases?

Ron

Ron- EXACTLY! As I was drawing the part I had a good long chuckle about how it looked a lot like the spindles bland CDR’s use to come on.

 

[slodat]

Lots of 3D printing stuff going on in the shop. I tossed one of the 5" grinder disc cases in the front seat of the truck yesterday when I went to work in Seattle. I was taking it to a good friend. Whelp.. it deformed, melted, and otherwise turned to a glob of shite in a few minutes in the mid-day sun. I had not seen PLA in the direct sun or high heat. I set a few other parts in the sun and this is the result:





That got me really concerned about my hardware kit boxes I've made. So.. I ordered some ABS:



The X1C does a GREAT job printing the ABS. My first box top failed..


This is not a big deal. Most likely caused by the hard line at that layer transition. I added a fillet and it's printing now. Aside from that, the ABS version is silly strong! I'll throw it out in the sun tomorrow to see how it does. As I inch closer to getting the YMC/Supermax VMC online, I decided to print CAT40 tool tags in different colors for each machine. Since the Prusa i3Mk3s is dialed in on PETG..



When this machine is dialed in, it does a great job. It's slow compared to the latest tech, but it's solid and the parts are nice.



Lastly, the new Z axis motor for the XL arrived today. Turns out the screw is integral to the stepper motor shaft. So.. I wrapped the jaws of a pair of pliers with a microfiber cloth and put some *** on the seized Z axis screw on the XL. Of course it turned. After a couple hours of back and forth with their support chat folks, the XL was up and running. The toolchange setup is REALLY slick. The first print was a small calibration cube:





Coffee cup for scale. I'm not really impressed or happy with the support process. And, initial impressions of the XL are really good! This is where I left it when I went home this evening..



Current print status:

 

[slodat]

The old Prusa had an issue with bed adhesion it seems.



Gave the build plate a good cleaning and it's back in business. Looks like the fillet on the vertical wall transition took care of the issue with the ABS version of the hardware box top. I also turned ironing off on this one. It turned out really nice.



Saving the best for last..


14" wide, 4" deep, 2" tall. Zero lift in the corners. NONE.







First real print on the XL was as good as I feel a person can hope for.

 

[slodat]

The XL comes with PrusaLink. This is a web based interface to the printer. It's rather simple, but so far it's working well.



Drag and drop the file saved from the slicer. Pressed the print button (not shown in screenshot above because I already pressed it.)



Current dashboard page.

 

[MadeByMiller]

The XL comes with PrusaLink. This is a web based interface to the printer. It's rather simple, but so far it's working well.



Drag and drop the file saved from the slicer. Pressed the print button (not shown in screenshot above because I already pressed it.)



Current dashboard page.

I had not heard about PrusaLink, but it looks nice! My guess is that this will evolve into something akin to the Bambu Handy app, webcam integration soon to come as well.

 

[slodat]

I had not heard about PrusaLink, but it looks nice! My guess is that this will evolve into something akin to the Bambu Handy app, webcam integration soon to come as well.

I'm definitely growing quite fond of the XL, and what I believe to be Prusa's new generation of offerings. They are a large company, with a global customer base. I give them some grace for not being able to instantaneously meet demand, etc. With that said, I feel the XL really needs the camera (for remote monitoring), and a suitable enclosure for printing ABS and the engineering filaments. PrusaLink is not as full featured as OctoPrint. Truth is the only thing I used OctoPrint for was sending files over WiFi, and remote monitoring.

Today, I'm quite happy with the XL and PrusaLink.

 

[GeddyT]

How are you printing 14" across in ABS with no enclosure and not getting lift in the corners!? I printed a rectangular box the size of a Raspberry Pi out of ASA, and it came out looking like a football.

As fun as you're having with the 3D printers for prototyping, I could see an injection molding machine in your future. Those would be pretty simple (albeit large) dies to machine.

 

[slodat]

How are you printing 14" across in ABS with no enclosure and not getting lift in the corners!? I printed a rectangular box the size of a Raspberry Pi out of ASA, and it came out looking like a football.

As fun as you're having with the 3D printers for prototyping, I could see an injection molding machine in your future. Those would be pretty simple (albeit large) dies to machine.

The XL has the inexpensive IIID Max PLA+ in it. The ABS is in the X1C printing my hardware boxes.

I would have to sell >100/month for a year straight before I would move away from 3d printing. The startup cost to get into injection molding these far outweighs the $3k I have in two X1C's. Yes, I ordered a second X1C.

 

[GeddyT]

The XL has the inexpensive IIID Max PLA+ in it. The ABS is in the X1C printing my hardware boxes.

I would have to sell >100/month for a year straight before I would move away from 3d printing. The startup cost to get into injection molding these far outweighs the $3k I have in two X1C's. Yes, I ordered a second X1C.

Okay, that makes a lot of sense on both counts. From the looks of your previous assembly line, it appeared you were getting to the point where you were moving pretty big numbers of kits. What's the time per unit to print those big boxes? That would be about 60 hours top and bottom on my printer, and they'd look worse than the ones you left out in the sun.

 

[slodat]

Okay, that makes a lot of sense on both counts. From the looks of your previous assembly line, it appeared you were getting to the point where you were moving pretty big numbers of kits. What's the time per unit to print those big boxes? That would be about 60 hours top and bottom on my printer, and they'd look worse than the ones you left out in the sun.

Each part takes about 6-8 hours depending on slicer settings. I usually have one part waiting for me when I walk in the door, and I have another mid afternoon. So, one pair of parts a day. I have more stuff in the works that will use the bigger envelope of the XL, and the capacity of the second X1C. Right now, all three printers are running. I haven't used the Mk3 much since the X1C arrived.

 

[GeddyT]

That's crazy fast!

*Edit: Why do I feel like the above statement will age about as well as the kid who got his new original Nintendo for Christmas and said, "These graphics are AMAZING!"?

 

[racer-john]

How are you printing 14" across in ABS with no enclosure and not getting lift in the corners!? I printed a rectangular box the size of a Raspberry Pi out of ASA, and it came out looking like a football.

As fun as you're having with the 3D printers for prototyping, I could see an injection molding machine in your future. Those would be pretty simple (albeit large) dies to machine.

"simple (albeit large) dies to machine." ...and expensive

 

[GeddyT]

"simple (albeit large) dies to machine." ...and expensive

This is Garage Journal: There's no budget when it's other people's money!...

 

[slodat]

This is Garage Journal: There's no budget when it's other people's money!...

Oh man! That's a big bag of worms! I'm quite certain I have been the cause of at the very least a few of you spending some money on stuff you saw in my thread! And my buddy @cycle61 has definitely done so. With that said, I fully accept @rattle_snake 's "enabler" nickname he gave me some time ago!

Obviously, the XL is growing on me as I use it. I am going to say it early.. If it weren't for Z axis motor trouble, I wouldn't have had anything bad to say about it at all. With that behind me, they knocked it out of the park with the printer in its current form. It REALLY needs a camera for remote monitoring and an enclosure. For my needs PrusaLink is more than adequate. I've read a little online about folks wanting to use OctoPi. Honestly, PrusaLink isn't leaving me wanting anything. I can print straight from the slicer and that's all I really want.

I did get that setup.



Speaking of enabling.. I mentioned it above.. I went ahead and ordered a second X1C. My reasoning was for the enclosure, AMS, speed, etc for printing my production parts out of ABS. And, more stuff in the works. I did consider a Prusa MK4 with enclosure. It's a few bucks less. The obvious lack of AMS notwithstanding, I'm really impressed with the print quality on the XL and the new X1C will print one color for most of its life I believe.

Anyway.. Thanks for following along and contributing to the conversation everyone!

 

[Finallygotit]

If your quantities of enclosures exceeds more than the 3D printers can pump out, let me know. I know a guy.

Seriously.

 

[jcarapet]

This is Garage Journal: There's no budget when it's other people's money!...

This is the way

 

[broinkrist]

That XL looks awesome. Printing big things really is a gamechanger. It's a lot larger than I was picturing. Just means I need to plan for more space in the future.

I switched away from PLA and print most things in PET-G now. Better in the heat and sun, and has been pretty stable for brackets and the like on my car for a while now. Easy to print, adheres well to heated beds, very dimensionally stable, no weird fumes to deal with either, etc.

 

[slodat]

That XL looks awesome. Printing big things really is a gamechanger. It's a lot larger than I was picturing. Just means I need to plan for more space in the future.

I switched away from PLA and print most things in PET-G now. Better in the heat and sun, and has been pretty stable for brackets and the like on my car for a while now. Easy to print, adheres well to heated beds, very dimensionally stable, no weird fumes to deal with either, etc.

It is awesome. It's definitely not mature like Prusa's i3MK3s. Nothing is sticking out as a problem. I just suspect the XL will be better a year from now. There's lots of chatter about input shaping for example. The work envelope is the big deal with the XL. It's not fast and I don't see it being a fast printer. That's okay, because the X1C is covering that just fine for parts it can print.

I had switched to PETG completely a couple of years ago. When the X1C arrived, I tried the IIID Max PLA at a friend's recommendation. It made my hardware cases so nicely, I printed a lot of them. I had completely forgotten about the heat issue until this week as described above. The ABS was an experiment mostly because of the price. I really like how the ABS turned out, so I'll use it going forward for those parts. I now have a LOT of PLA+ for shop projects! Like, a LOT.

 

[slodat]

I'm working on some reverse engineering today. This stuff is... tricky. The scanner creates a point cloud of data. It's final output is a mesh. The mesh is then manipulated in Geomagic Essentials. GE helps with reducing unnecessary polygons, getting the origin right if it wasn't done in the scanner software, and cleaning up the mesh.



After that, the mesh is used as a reference to create real geometry in a model that's usable by the CAD program (Fusion 360 in my case). Getting from the mesh to the model is not trivial. As I've mentioned before, there's a software called Design X that is the industry standard for this. It's $20k for a license. Because of this, I don't have a Design X license

Enter Quick Surface. I've read about it a few times over the 18 months I've had the scanner. I met a guy online today and our conversation led to what I needed to know. I'm now the proud owner of a license. I probably won't get it until Monday, but I did it. I have quite a bit of reverse engineering work in the coming month, so now was the time. Quick Surface has reverse engineering and modeling features that will make it pay for itself in a matter of a couple of projects.

More XL photos:



I like the little screen UI and the PrusaLink. The first layer is really, really good.



And it's doing a great job on these big flat parts.


That is a small tray for my calipers and other stuff on my desk.

Now I have it working on a big, and LONG job. It's printing the hardware box top and bottom.






It's a 25 hour print for both parts with a 0.6mm nozzle and 0.3mm layer height. About twice as long as the X1C to make the same parts. But, it can make them, even slower and contribute to the production effort. I'm excited to see how they turn out. These are in PETG.

 

[slodat]

I've printed about 8 of the hardware case parts in ABS. I'm really happy with how they are turning out. They are as close to flat as anything I've printed on any of my printers. The quality is awesome, and they are stupid strong. The X1C is printing these in about 6 hours. I'm not noticing any fumes to speak of.







The texture from the texture build plate is awesome. I think this is about as good as one can expect from 3D printing. I'm really happy with these parts!

 

[cycle61]

It'll be interesting to compare the Prusa box to the one made on the Bambu once they're both done.

 

[slodat]

It'll be interesting to compare the Prusa box to the one made on the Bambu once they're both done.

I’ll post photos when the XL is done.. in 22 hours.

 

[broinkrist]

Which 3D scanner are you using? I must have missed it in previous posts.

I'm thinking of getting a 3d scanner next to develop parts faster.

 

[slodat]

Which 3D scanner are you using? I must have missed it in previous posts.

I'm thinking of getting a 3d scanner next to develop parts faster.

Einscan HX RED Bundle. Very happy with it.

 

[slodat]

More XL photos:







Corners are not lifting thus far. I haven't achieved this on any other combo yet. Excited to see how the corners are when the prints are done.

 

[slodat]

Comparison shots of the XL and X1C. The XL is the shinier finish, X1C is more of a matte finish.



No corner lift on either part..


X1C in the foreground:


The XL box bottom has a ghosting effect through the outer wall. Never seen this one before..






XL box bottom:




The streaking effect on the bottom part (X1C) is from the glue stick I tried on the X1C textured build plate.

Overall thoughts.. the XL parts look "3d printed" whereas the X1C parts look more polished and less like they were 3d printed. The fact that the corners don't lift on the XL is pretty awesome. The ghosting through the side of the XL part is bad enough I wouldn't want to ship those with my tooling kit.

Overall, X1C wins all around: SPEED for sure. It's under half the time to print. Print quality on the X1C is significantly better in my opinion. Where the XL shines currently is build volume for me.

 

[slodat]

Got home from a few days on the road. The second X1C arrived just as I was headed out. Got it setup this evening.



This effectively kicked the old Prusa i3MK3s off the bench. Not sure what’s next for it. Both X1C’s are busy making hardware box lids overnight.

I had a lot of windshield time this week. Listened to many hours of tutorials and videos about Quick Surface and reverse engineering. I have a 3d scanning project this weekend. Really excited to put some of the new knowledge and software to use.

 

[lilscorpion]

Aren’t you worried about AI taking over your shop?!