Above 1200 Sq/FT Eastern Washington Workshop

[slodat]

I have spent many hours trying to get DNC to work on the Okuma. It will send code from the Okuma to the DNC box. It will not accept code from the DNC box. I believe the issue is the receive UART (or similar) is damaged. Or, there's a failing memory or other component. I'm unable to change any of the COM port settings in the control. BTR would also need the communications to work. I've talked to a handful of companies that are savvy to the old tape interface stuff on the era Okuma specifically. I'm told it's quite common for the receive circuits to fail because folks are sloppy with connecting/disconnecting with power on and this takes them out. So, I've accepted it as it is.

It's a great running machine and I'm probably the last guy that's going to make parts with it. I ran two dozen of my 4" parts in it with zero issues once I proved the code out.

 

[slodat]

Is that like drip feed? that is what we were considering on an old Fadal VMC at work. We ended up getting rid of it, but that was the method i had zeroed in on.

Yes, that's right. There's a modern drop in replacement control for the old Fadal VMC's. As well as complete or nearly complete parts support for them.

 

[86turbodsl]

I have spent many hours trying to get DNC to work on the Okuma. It will send code from the Okuma to the DNC box. It will not accept code from the DNC box. I believe the issue is the receive UART (or similar) is damaged. Or, there's a failing memory or other component. I'm unable to change any of the COM port settings in the control. BTR would also need the communications to work. I've talked to a handful of companies that are savvy to the old tape interface stuff on the era Okuma specifically. I'm told it's quite common for the receive circuits to fail because folks are sloppy with connecting/disconnecting with power on and this takes them out. So, I've accepted it as it is.

It's a great running machine and I'm probably the last guy that's going to make parts with it. I ran two dozen of my 4" parts in it with zero issues once I proved the code out.

Board level repair? Uart chip should be pretty easy to locate

 

[slodat]

I'm not messing with it. It is making parts and that's what I need from it.

 

[nicholam77]

Nice job with all the small parts storage, tool holders, and bins. You're a 3D printing maniac!

 

[macgyver37]

One thing that makes it less painful to key in by hand is that a 2 axis lathe part usually requires a small amount of code for a program. Most of my customers and fellow shop owners in my area don't even use CAM to program one, they just write it out in notepad or similar. They do have the ability to load it on the control though, so it makes it quicker and a bit easier to edit and see potential mistakes on a desktop pc.

This is also one of the reasons it doesn't make much financial sense to retrofit one if the factory control works. They typically don't need a ton of memory, look ahead etc. The only reason I can see to retrofit one is if the work changes to memory hogging programs or something physically breaks and it can't reasonably be fixed. Then the cost of moving the machine comes into play to determine if replacing the whole machine makes sense. Lots of shop owners that have done it say that the machine has to be Really big and expensive to move, something unique that is hard to find and has special features or just isn't made anymore before it pays to retrofit. In the case of a generic lathe, it likely makes sense to find another instead.

I do think that there are a handful of machines that may be the exception to this rule. I think Centroid makes a sweet plug and play kit for upgrading Mori Seiki SL series lathes. With their kit, it then becomes a question of knowing the machine's history and it's mechanical performance to determine if it is worth the time and money.

Of course things have changed alot in the last 2-3 years and these concerns may be completely different now. The normal has changed somewhat, so hard to say what can be bought at this time...

 

[slodat]

@nicholam77 thank you sir! The printers have been running a lot the last few months!

@macgyver37 Well said on all points. I am keying in code posted from Fusion because the dam chamfers kick my **** trying to program them by hand. I really like the Okuma. I'm not sure what I'd do if it took a dump. I've heard/read they still service old machines. I have a feeling I'd buy a different lathe. We put the machine in place with the largest telehandler the rental outfit had. That ends up costing me about $2k, so not terrible. But something to consider.

I have three of the five parts I bought the Okuma to make programmed and proven. The time savings and quality improvement is mind boggling. I'm really happy with it. The 24 4" parts took about two hours to run. Beats the hell out of small production runs on the manual lathe. And I love running my manual lathes.. For one off parts.

 

[slodat]

Client's manufacturing division can't provide their own hinge to their field service group. They sent me a sample:



There's no off the shelf part that anyone can find. Some time with a caliper and Fusion:

3D printed test parts to verify:




Total project was under a half hour. Now to machine them out of bar stock.

 

[RickP]

That's RAPID prototyping!

 

[slodat]

That's RAPID prototyping!

That’s exactly what I thought! This is the exact reason I bought a 3d printer. Almost four years ago. I had a client project that was going to require having parts machined. At the time I planned to send them out to be made. He ultimately changed his mind on the project- an articulating roof rack for a Ferrari FF. We’ve all seen how the 3d printers have been used in my shop. Pretty cool to see it naturally evolve back to the original reason I bought one.

 

[slodat]

The impetus for the spray can shelves a while back was, I sat down to finally make a shelf for the Ellis bandsaw. When I opened Fusion I found an abandoned design for the spray can shelves. At the time I had not made much in the way of sheet metal parts and I didn't really know how to go about it.

I sat down this morning to make the bandsaw shelf.



Simple design that requires three tapped holes in the bandsaw material support structure.



Pulling the side leg off made drilling and tapping two of the holes easy. Then all I had to do was layout and drill/tap the third hole. There's a chunk of plate welded on the right side that makes that side not nice and flat like the left side. Great spot for a fastener though.



Three fasteners will definitely support this 14ga shelf.



I'm really happy with my 14ga corner recipe. They close up quite nicely.



Hard to get that zoomed photo with the phone today. And, there's a huge mess that doesn't need to be in the photo

This is another small project that will make the shop more enjoyable to work in. **** is CONSTANTLY falling off the saw and on the floor. No more of that!

 

[slodat]

I think I'm done with these shelves for now.. This is the original cart I wanted a spray can shelf on:





Overall, I like the Rubbermaid Commercial carts better. This cart is rather light weight and small. It does just fine coupled up to the Tree milling machine. The spray can shelves keep a few essentials off the horizontal surface. I'm happy with how this one turned out. I did tack weld the corners on these. I was getting a little gready cheating the bends and went too far. Tack weld solved it.

I went ahead and made one the right size for the Gen2 HF 44" box next to the Pacemaker.



The last one is the end of the double bank of 56" HF cabinets. I've had these Bondhus T handle hex wrenches taking up space for a long time. This worked out well. It's not in the way and the T handles are in a handy location, not taking up valuable bench space.

 

[Finallygotit]

Steven, I have the same sets of Bondhus T-handles. What drove me nuts about them was it being hard to read the hex size on the bases. I fixed that! I took a white paint pen to the numbers and it is clearly visible now. It's the little things in life.

 

[Balor]

Client's manufacturing division can't provide their own hinge to their field service group. They sent me a sample:



There's no off the shelf part that anyone can find. Some time with a caliper and Fusion:

3D printed test parts to verify:




Total project was under a half hour. Now to machine them out of bar stock.

Is that an E-clip groove in the center of the hing?

 

[slodat]

Steven, I have the same sets of Bondhus T-handles. What drove me nuts about them was it being hard to read the hex size on the bases. I fixed that! I took a white paint pen to the numbers and it is clearly visible now. It's the little things in life.

Dan, I’ve done the same on the other set I have. Thanks for the reminder!

Is that an E-clip groove in the center of the hing?

I believe so. I haven’t seen one on this manufacturer’s gear with the clip installed. The hinges I have seen with the clip included were new hinges I bought from a 3rd party supplier when I was first trying to sort this out. They were a little plastic e-clip of sorts. I don’t plan to add that feature.

 

[lilscorpion]

I think I'm done with these shelves for now.. This is the original cart I wanted a spray can shelf on:





Overall, I like the Rubbermaid Commercial carts better. This cart is rather light weight and small. It does just fine coupled up to the Tree milling machine. The spray can shelves keep a few essentials off the horizontal surface. I'm happy with how this one turned out. I did tack weld the corners on these. I was getting a little gready cheating the bends and went too far. Tack weld solved it.

I went ahead and made one the right size for the Gen2 HF 44" box next to the Pacemaker.



The last one is the end of the double bank of 56" HF cabinets. I've had these Bondhus T handle hex wrenches taking up space for a long time. This worked out well. It's not in the way and the T handles are in a handy location, not taking up valuable bench space.

Huh. Tried a few times but never got into T-Handles. They seem too manual. For whatever reason, if I gotta go manual, the conventional allen wrenches just feel right. Not sure why.

 

[Finallygotit]

Huh. Tried a few times but never got into T-Handles. They seem too manual. For whatever reason, if I gotta go manual, the conventional allen wrenches just feel right. Not sure why.

Nevermind.................

 

[slodat]

On the T handles… I really like them for quick assembly/disassembly. I reach for them often.

I shipped a few tooling kits last week. The cardboard box Pelican ships the Storm cases in is really lightweight and it doesn’t hold up well. My first thought was I'd buy heavier boxes to ship them in. That quickly proved to not be an option. Then I thought I'd have 25 of the two sizes made. That's definitely not a thing from any of the online places. Most require 5,000 minimum order. Finally, I found a place that will build them for me. They end up being about $20/ea, but I think the presentation is worth it.

The excursion down the rabbit hole didn't stop with the box.. I was packing some sheet metal parts and hated how it looked when done. It just looked.. amateurish. Uline has a free shipping offer going for a couple weeks. I ended up ordering a small assortment of their bigger, double wall boxes. They will work great for the sheet metal orders that aren't big enough for a pallet. And, for when they are, on the pallet. The free shipping cut almost $400 off the invoice.

Further down the rabbit hole we go.. when I got to looking at the boxes I've received that I feel look professional, they don't have plastic tape. They have the fiberglass reinforced kraft paper tape, and staples. If you've been reading this thread for any amount of time, you know what's next..



This is one of the carton closure staplers Uline offers. I found it nearly new, on ebay. Best offer of $200 got it. Uline wants $500 for it. I had to buy a full box of 20,000 staples. I'll be good to go on staples for a while. Actually, I'd love to have to buy another box because I ran through them shipping out my products! When I ordered the stapler I thought the big expenditure was now behind me. All I needed was the kraft tape dispenser. How much could that cost?!

HA! After spending too much time reading, researching, and trying to decide what I wanted, I settled on Better Pack. They seem to be the industry standard. Lots of used and refurbished on ebay. This guy seems to be the workhorse of the industry. I was able to get a new, open box unit for a little under half the price most places sell them for. Still a lot more than I had thought it would cost. Should last a lifetime.



In all the reading I had done, it started to make sense. The kraft paper/glue combo bond permanently to the box fibers. This is why folks use it. Now I'll be one of those assholes putting those staples that inevitably stab us all when we open a stapled box. And they will look pro as hell when they show up to the customer, which is what I'm going for.

I've been working on making the hinges I previously posted about. There's a lot to them. Three setups, smaller stock, work holding challenges, etc. I went back and forth quite a bit on when/how to make the hinge pin hole in both parts. I finally settled on doing it first. This is the soft jaw I came up with. It holds the stock for a pair of hinges securely.



The dog bones in the corners make room for the corner of the stock, and a potential burr from sawing. Here it is loaded up:


I finally got all the OP2 tool paths sorted out. Next up is getting the Haas setup and run the first parts.

 

[Finallygotit]

When I used to build plastic injection molds, my goal was to make the parting line look pristine and all of the inserts to look like jewelry. When I used to attend samplings, more often than not, when they opened the mold in the press the customer would comment on how good the mold looked and that they weren't worried about the part quality. They figured if someone spent this much time making the mold look that good, the rest had to be there. It also didn't hurt that I tried to hold ±0.0002" on all the part dimensions. All of that blah, blah, blah Steven is that I get what you're doing. First impressions are everything.

Carry on!

 

[slodat]

Made progress on the hinges. The fixed half:


And both:





The pin worked out well. Now to deck off the carrier. I wanted to make one set of soft jaws that would hold a pair of either half. This is what I came up with.





The rear jaw:


These are perfect for 3D printing. You know what's next:

 

[slodat]

First set of soft jaws were too small in places, so the parts didn't fit. Looks like things were 0.012 undersized. Made that adjustment and the parts fit great. I broke the rear jaw tightening up the moving half of the hinge. Printing 100% infill overnight to see if that helps.


A few tweaks on the second set and I'm close to having reliable process on all three operations.







Parts are in the tumbler now. Should work great! SO much work getting to this point.

 

[slodat]

Final hinge after tumbling:




I'm running quite a few of these. Got busy and made this fine example this morning:


As @cycle61 said.. gotta drop the hips a little with this one.

This guy showed up today:

Excuse the tripping over my tongue. I'm not a video guy, obviously.

 

[cycle61]

That one fits the door to the cabinet extra tight for water resistance.

 

[loganb]

That hinge looks great...nicely done!

And well done on the box stapler....I remember when I was in the factory role and shipped something to a peer in another plant and "just cause" I must've put 2 dozen of those staples in the box...then for good measure I ran it thru the strapping machine at least a dozen times in a nice weave like pattern....he sent me a picture when it arrived commending me on it not being damaged! Unfortunately no comment on how long it took to open lol

 

[slodat]

@loganb Thank you! I did not expect the client to order as many of the hinges as they did. Needless to say, I've ran a lot of these and I have a hundred more to run before the end of the week. From a "get it done right" perspective, I LOVE the carton stapler.

The water activated tape dispenser I bought on ebay ended up being a dud. They shipped a replacement. Uline had a free shipping/freight deal. This the first of two orders taking advantage of that deal.


A lot of their stuff ships LTL freight due to size. I saved around $500 in freight on the stuff I bought. Outbound packages will definitely start looking the part. I'm happy with this improvement.

The hinge project evolved. I found the right mounting hardware:


Thread cutting flat head cap screw with a torx head. They are perfect and nearly identical (except for the torx) to the screw the manufacturer uses.



I'm making a few hundred of these in this batch. Starts out as 12' sticks cut in half:


Next up was a thousand of each fastener:


First order of hinges is almost ready to ship. Sheet metal project for a new client. I came up with this nut plate/flap that attaches the parts together. I 3d printed a layout template.



It worked really slick.


It quickly, accurately locates the two parts. Clamp and weld.


Lastly.. I've battled yellow jackets during COLD (er) weather for the last few years. I typically find one or two on the floor most days when I get to the shop. I've looked and never found a nest or anything. That changed yesterday.



I'm not ready to pop that ceiling panel down just yet. I'm going to call a bug guy and have them do it when it's a little colder outside.

I would really like to have these assholes out of here once and for all.

 

[slodat]

I think I'm good for boxes, and packing supplies in general.


The seller sent the new tape dispenser. It is really satisfying!

This is the end result:


It's exactly what I'm going for. I kept knocking over the MIG torch holder I had. Reached out Joel at Overkill Racing and found out they had these in stock.



Our own @MadeByMiller did the design on the packaging! It's areally nice piece:


And, it will keep the torch off the floor!

 

[MadeByMiller]

Our own @MadeByMiller did the design on the packaging! It's areally nice piece:

Well, to be clear, I only did the renderings where it looks like the box is torn and you can see the product through the hole. Everything else including the Christmas stuff was all someone else. Thanks though!

 

[Finallygotit]

Steven, is that torch holder magnetic or do you have to mount it?

 

[slodat]

Steven, is that torch holder magnetic or do you have to mount it?

Dan,

It's magnetic. Their website has more info.

 

[slodat]

Challenging project came in the shop this week.. Make three of these:


The scanner is perfect for this sort of thing. Scanned the part from two different angles and aligned the scans.


Final scan:


Meshed and opened in QuickSurface. The mesh data is used to create a sketch. What's nice about QS is you can reference the scan data while creating the sketch.


That's used to make parametric geometry in QS.


With the scan visible we can see how they look.


Again, the comparision tool is really helpful to see how the model is compared to the scan.




This step file is then brought into Fusion for refinement and making the parts.

 

[slodat]

Made some progress on the racking arms. Cut some aluminum soft jaws and milled the holes and countersinks. The plasma did a great job of cutting out the parts.



This was the first time using a countersink on something other than aluminum. I think speeds and feeds finally clicked the rest of the way. While I did burn up two HSS countersinks, I also knew what was happening while it was happening. Went to look for surface speed for mild steel and my guesstimate was WAY high! Turned the spindle down to 600rpm, and 0.006 on the pecking depth at 2ipm feed. They took a while with the HSS countersink I had on hand. They turned out nice. The spotting drill on the first part revealed I needed to support the part in the middle. 1-2-3 block and a Fireball shim did the trick:






Turned each end of the shaft on the Pacemaker. It continues to be a really fun lathe to make parts on. The end plate of the part has a 1/8" step for the weld.



The I snuck up on the fit between the plate bore and the shaft collar. Weld setup was pretty easy.


The sample part doesn't have anything above the plate surface. To match this, I turned the weld down on the lathe. Worked really well. Was also a great way to check the shaft square to the plate.



All three parts ready for boring the through hole on the other end of the shaft.



The customer is taking care of plating. I tumbled the plates after machining to debur. It worked well, but it left some gunk in the countersinks. It cleaned up with a wire brush.

 

[rvieceli]

@slodat Steven I’m having very good luck with Keo cobalt zero flute countersinks. Nice cut and they seem to be holding up well. Of course I’m running them in a drill press not a big machine.

https://www.mscdirect.com/browse/tn?searchterm=Zero%20flute%20countersink&hdrsrh=true&rd=k

Ron

 

[slodat]

I have an old set of this style countersink made by Weldon. They are great for deburring with a cordless drill. I haven’t tried it in the mill. The Keo brand is new to me. Thanks for the recommendation, Ron!

 

[rvieceli]

I have an old set of this style countersink made by Weldon. They are great for deburring with a cordless drill. I haven’t tried it in the mill. The Keo brand is new to me. Thanks for the recommendation, Ron!

Still made in the USA as well.

Ron

 

[GeddyT]

Might not be worth the setup time, but you can also countersink with a 90 degree (or 82 if they're SAE bolts) chamfer mill on the Haas, particularly when the hole is bigger, allowing room for the tip of the mill. Circular toolpath instead of pecking straight down. Clean countersink every time.

I never would have thought to do it that way if it weren't Fusion's default when you ask it to chamfer a hole. Which also means you already know this, now that I think about it...

 

[GeddyT]

I have an old set of this style countersink made by Weldon. They are great for deburring with a cordless drill. I haven’t tried it in the mill. The Keo brand is new to me. Thanks for the recommendation, Ron!

That's funny! Just this week I got a Keo single flute countersink in the mail. I bought it for hand-drilling countersinks. I have three or four countersink bits for this purpose, but they're all 82 degrees and I mostly use metric fasteners. In looking for a 90 degree bit to add to the drawer, the Keo was well reviewed and affordable.

 

[slodat]

@rvieceli Ron - thanks for the recommendation. Checking account balance is lower because of it. I have a Weldon set, and it's quite old. This is perfect for the refresh.

@GeddyT Tom - thanks for the recommendation. Checking account balance is lower because of it. I haven't used the feature you're describing in Fusion. Where is this a default? I need to look into it. I ordered several 82 degree chamfer mills from Maritool.

The Tree mill continues to be really useful as a support machine. Definitely not what I want to run production parts on, but great for parts like these breaker racking shafts. V blocks held the shaft nicely. The end plate registered against the side of the vise jaws made it repeatable.


I probed the hole on the sample. Fireball shims on the right side clocked the shaft correctly.


Made for a simple, quick, repeatable setup. Recently started using these 140 degree spotting drills. Works great!


I use the remnants of the tool case foam for shipping. Took a minute to figure out how to get all four parts in the box in a way that they wouldn't rattle around. A few quick holes and I had this:


A pair at two different elevations, separated by a layer of foam. Ready to button up:


The first package to leave with all the packaging improvements:


That box feels REALLY good. It represents the close of the third quarter of the first year.

 

[Finallygotit]

Fantastic work! BTW, every time you mention the Fireball shims I think of this instead.

 

[GeddyT]

The first time I tried to get Fusion to countersink a hole, it wasn't intuitive. You choose a drilling operation, and all it lists is drills. "I don't want a drill, I want to countersink with a 90 degree chamfer mill."

I've since learned how to drill with things other than drills, but that first time around I just went looking around for other methods. It's a chamfer bit, so I chose 2D Chamfer and selected the holes as the geometry. Instead of pecking straight down, it circled the perimeter of the hole in the width that I chose. You have to do a little math to get the diameter of the countersink right (countersink diameter = 2*chamfer width + hole diameter), but it makes a really clean countersink and works well. I have one of the Maritool 4-flute helical chamfer mills, and it does a great job (and is only $31 for a double-ended tool).

So, yeah, I usually countersink my holes at the same time as I'm deburring the rest of the part. Just add the hole circles to the list of contours when I'm selecting geometry. If I want a full countersink, I do them as their own 2D Chamfer operation and use the math to get the top diameter correct. These are the workarounds one must do when one doesn't have [checks picture two posts up]... at least 133 different tools!

 

[slodat]

Ha! I don't have 133 tools The Tree tool rack has 54 tools on it. I started numbering at 131 for additional tools to help keep things straight.

I will openly admit I'd much prefer to add inexpensive tool holders than break them down. I'll probably order another batch of the TPAC ER16 and ER20 tool holders.

Maritool doesn't do the helical version of those chamfer mills in 82 degree. I'm not following the chamfer width piece yet. I'll do some reading. That's definitely the way to do it! Thank you! I use the peck drill cycle for the 82 degree chamfers currently. It was fine in aluminum. The low surface speed for steel is what kicked my ****. Interpolating the chamfer will work much better once I have a recipe.

A quick search brought this up:

Note: 2D Chamfer toolpath is for chamfers that are not modeled. Using 2D Chamfer with modeled chamfers may result in this warning or an undesired milling outcome. In this case, use a 2D Contour operation with a chamfer tool and the "Chamfer" option enabled and select the bottom edge of the chamfer.