GeddyT
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Did you do any fabrication for this project?
Above 1200 Sq/FT Eastern Washington Workshop
- Thread starter slodat
- Start date
Wokspaces above 1200 squarefeet.
MadeByMiller
Well-known member
Wow, what a cool setting and a big project! Congrats on your success so far and best of luck as you finish it up.
I got the shrink fit machine up and running this evening. I have a 50a 3 phase cord that runs to the middle of the bay. Up to now it was for the Okuma. The shrink fit machine won't be used day and night, so it made sense to set it up to use that cord. The plug has a really large hole in the strain relief, for big cord used. I made a small bushing to make it all fit and tighten up correctly.
Of course the X1C did a great job of printing. Worked out well.
The shrink fit machine is no joke. I was wondering how it would be, considering it's a budget priced machine in the big scheme of things.
It uses shop air for cooling. 2.5 minutes for these 1/2" holders. It worked really well.
Both of these tools have 1" in the holder. Should work really well. I'm sure the runout is an improvement over the ER holders I currently use for these tools.
Of course the X1C did a great job of printing. Worked out well.
The shrink fit machine is no joke. I was wondering how it would be, considering it's a budget priced machine in the big scheme of things.
It uses shop air for cooling. 2.5 minutes for these 1/2" holders. It worked really well.
Both of these tools have 1" in the holder. Should work really well. I'm sure the runout is an improvement over the ER holders I currently use for these tools.
rmack898
Well-known member
What's the lifetime of the tool holders?
How many heat/cool cycles can they go through before they need to be replaced?
Nice work at the bank.
How many heat/cool cycles can they go through before they need to be replaced?
Nice work at the bank.
That’s one of the reasons guys recommend the machine- it helps ensure the holder is heated the right amount of time for tool insertion and removal.
I’ve read they are good for thousands of cycles. That’s a lot! Shrink fit holders pretty much check all the boxes- more clamping force, less runout, smaller nose diameter. Time will tell how they work for me.
GeddyT
ALLIANCE MEMBER
I would love to have a shrink fit tool, but just can't justify the price. I think it's a space that's ripe for someone to come in and make a machine at about a third of the price of all the rest on the market and sell them like hot cakes. It's not like it's a super complicated concept... There are a lot of YouTube videos of home-built heaters at a fraction of the cost, but I need a project like that like I need another hole in my head.
I guess, once again, I'm living vicariously through you when it comes to the shrink fit tooling!
I guess, once again, I'm living vicariously through you when it comes to the shrink fit tooling!
One of the things the recent project taught me was, a hydraulic punch and shear are the way to go for copper bus fabrication. Up to know I had figured I'd mill holes and use the bandsaw to cut to length. The ironworker made that project possible in so many ways - time, accuracy, ease of use, shearing capacity, and more, I'm sure.
The writing is on the wall.. I need to be able to fabricate copper bus in the shop. I've looked at several different ways to go about it. The big shops use a CNC turret punch press. I not only don't have the money (six figures), but I also don't have the space for one. I had thought about a high-power laser earlier this year, and that's not realistic from a financial (or space) perspective. Once I created a functional workflow in that trailer a couple weeks ago, I realized this is a good way to go.
We all know what's next.. new machine day is coming! I looked at all the manufacturers. There are several US companies making them here in the US. I settled on a Scotchman.
While their incredible reputation doesn't hurt at all, it was the three-station turret on the punch station that sold me. The lever is lowered, and the turret rotates. Very simple operation that takes a few seconds. Using the iron worker taught me some things I would like to have in one in the shop. Namely stroke control. I went ahead and ordered the options I wanted. This should be a lifetime purchase. I ordered it with: single phase power, tables for both the shear and punch stations, laser for the shear, the internal lighting, a large punch set, and the jog option.
The jog option should be really nice when aligning punches, and setting up the stroke control limits. The new machines are electrically controlled hydraulics, vs the old hydraulic valve style. Everything I've seen on them looks like it's going to be a great addition to the shop.
While I did opt for the shear and punch station work tables, I didn't go for this guy:
It's $1k by the time you pay for shipping. I can definitely make some thing like this for the price of the drawer slides. Pretty stoked. Should be here in a couple weeks.
The writing is on the wall.. I need to be able to fabricate copper bus in the shop. I've looked at several different ways to go about it. The big shops use a CNC turret punch press. I not only don't have the money (six figures), but I also don't have the space for one. I had thought about a high-power laser earlier this year, and that's not realistic from a financial (or space) perspective. Once I created a functional workflow in that trailer a couple weeks ago, I realized this is a good way to go.
We all know what's next.. new machine day is coming! I looked at all the manufacturers. There are several US companies making them here in the US. I settled on a Scotchman.
While their incredible reputation doesn't hurt at all, it was the three-station turret on the punch station that sold me. The lever is lowered, and the turret rotates. Very simple operation that takes a few seconds. Using the iron worker taught me some things I would like to have in one in the shop. Namely stroke control. I went ahead and ordered the options I wanted. This should be a lifetime purchase. I ordered it with: single phase power, tables for both the shear and punch stations, laser for the shear, the internal lighting, a large punch set, and the jog option.
The jog option should be really nice when aligning punches, and setting up the stroke control limits. The new machines are electrically controlled hydraulics, vs the old hydraulic valve style. Everything I've seen on them looks like it's going to be a great addition to the shop.
While I did opt for the shear and punch station work tables, I didn't go for this guy:
It's $1k by the time you pay for shipping. I can definitely make some thing like this for the price of the drawer slides. Pretty stoked. Should be here in a couple weeks.
The thing I'm noticing with things like shrink fit tool holders is it prices out hobbyists enough that I don't think there's enough of a market for someone to put out a low-cost machine like you're talking about. If I wasn't a full-time business, I wouldn't have bought the machine I have. With that said, Frank Mari posted some info about the company in Taiwan on PM that makes the machine he and Haas offer. It's the same machine with their respective branding. It's a 10kw heater, so that's also a thing. It's quite a bit of power and the machines ship needing three phase supply. Maybe someone like Tormach will put something out..
@slodat you’ll love that Ironworker. My steel guy has a Piranha P50 that is old but still going strong. They have a very sturdy stop made roller stand that is set at the height of the shear but they are cutting up 20 foot sticks of rather heavy stuff.
He likes American Punch for tooling.
Ron
He likes American Punch for tooling.
American Punch Company - The Punch, Die, and Shear Blade Experts
American Punch Company manufactures replacement and custom punches, dies and shear blades to fit all ironworkers - angleline, beamline and plate. The company also makes copers, notchers and bar cutters.
americanpunchco.com
Ron
GeddyT
ALLIANCE MEMBER
I didn't know what an "ironworker" was until your post. When I asked if you did any fabrication for that last job, I was referring to fabricating things in your shop that you brought to the job, but now I see how it was possible to do the fabrication on-site. Pretty cool!
rattle_snake
Well-known member
Well that is a sweet machine. waiting for delivery day....
Fabing bus bars, how many electrons (amps) are we working with here?
Fabing bus bars, how many electrons (amps) are we working with here?
I don’t have enough throughput capacity to make all the parts on a project that big. Phase one (in the previous post) was something like 17,000 components. That includes fasteners, washers, etc. I make the steel and GPO3 parts for smaller projects. The big job shops don’t want to, and in some cases won’t, make one or two of a part. They can’t make any money on those type of orders.
I’m excited to get the ironworker in the shop. Should be about 3 weeks.
GeddyT
ALLIANCE MEMBER
4000A? That small, huh? So somewhere between a hot-rodded vacuum cleaner and a modest car stereo?
cycle61
Well-known member
Biggest I've seen is 6,300 amps on a 480v system. If you need more power than that you're into medium voltage territory. At those current levels, substantial mechanical bracing of your solid copper bars is required because the magnetic forces will measurably bend them. It's fun stuff.
Electric arc furnaces can runs as high as 40,000 amps, but the voltage is usually much lower, and generally DC.
Last edited:
The plasma table was drained down while I was out of town. Plenty of time to dry out. Went ahead and did a thorough cleaning in preparation for the new year. A few photos of the process.
After breaking that crust up a little..
Right side has been cleaned up a little..
After a lot of scraping and vacuuming..
I filled and drained a couple times until the water in the table stayed clear ish. Then added a new additive - Sterlingcool's plasma stuff. Folks speak highly of it. It's all cleaned up and ready to go.
Fired up the Okuma to run some stabs tonight. This old machine continues to impress. This is an honest diameter measurement:
Pretty cool. If only it would allow me to send code to the control..
A few hours work:
Two more diameters of this style part to run.
After breaking that crust up a little..
Right side has been cleaned up a little..
After a lot of scraping and vacuuming..
I filled and drained a couple times until the water in the table stayed clear ish. Then added a new additive - Sterlingcool's plasma stuff. Folks speak highly of it. It's all cleaned up and ready to go.
Fired up the Okuma to run some stabs tonight. This old machine continues to impress. This is an honest diameter measurement:
Pretty cool. If only it would allow me to send code to the control..
A few hours work:
Two more diameters of this style part to run.
RickP
Well-known member
That Okuma turns out some really nice looking parts. And you gotta' love that kind of accuracy!
(I realize you've looked at this before, but there has to be a way...)
If anybody can figure it out, my money's on you.
(I realize you've looked at this before, but there has to be a way...)
Rick - thank you for the vote of confidence. Alas, I've decided to move on from trying to get communications running. It appears there's a problem with the memory, as well as the UART. Machine was born in 1986. Even though I have to hand key in the programs, it's still a huge upgrade over manually machining these parts. I believe it is second on the list of big machine upgrades/purchases. Since I know folks will ask, I think a bigger press brake is what's next. When the machines cross over to six figure purchases, things change a little.
Finallygotit
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Holy ****! Well if it helps, you have a lot of guys cheering you on. And to think of where you started......... Impressive!
rmack898
Well-known member
New ironworker, surface grinder, I think i'm starting to smell shop addition.
Love the old Reid surface grinders. All mechanical so no hydraulic leaks.
Used one years ago that was manual down feed and had a pinned arm you would pulled out and move to change direction on the cross feed.
I picked up a manual surface grinder a few years back from a retired machinist. He was selling it to buy a power feed for his Bridgeport. Gave me a large assortment of wheels with it. I had told him where I live and later in the day him and his wife pulled in the drive and he handed me a wheel dresser and a couple aluminum parallel blocks. I wish I had the tool sharpener attachment for it.
I don't use it much but it's great for doing the things only a surface grinder can.
Used one years ago that was manual down feed and had a pinned arm you would pulled out and move to change direction on the cross feed.
I picked up a manual surface grinder a few years back from a retired machinist. He was selling it to buy a power feed for his Bridgeport. Gave me a large assortment of wheels with it. I had told him where I live and later in the day him and his wife pulled in the drive and he handed me a wheel dresser and a couple aluminum parallel blocks. I wish I had the tool sharpener attachment for it.
I don't use it much but it's great for doing the things only a surface grinder can.
Cheers to good friends! My buddy came over this morning to help me unload the grinder. We ultimately decided to try something new.. Pull the truck up with the nose up to the bathroom outside wall and unload up by the building. Like this:
This provided level enough ground to get the grinder out of the truck;
Moved the truck out of the way and drove the forklift straight in to the other roll up door. From there the pallet jack under the grinder diagonally worked great to get it into position.
It has the Bijur auto oiler for the table, fully automatic table feed for both axis, and obviously coolant. It needs a good cleaning, and the belts for the table drive need replacing. Overall a clean machine.
There's a lot going on in this 1000sq ft bay:
Lastly this showed up:
.
It's a modification for the hydraulic downfeed on the Ellis bandsaw. It moves the control to the front of the saw, and the toggle is a stop. This means you can lift the saw, throw the toggle, and it stays put while you load material, then throw the toggle and the downfeed speed is the same as it was prior. HUGE quality of life improvement. The bandsaw runs almost constantly for a few days processing bar stock in preparation for machining.
This provided level enough ground to get the grinder out of the truck;
Moved the truck out of the way and drove the forklift straight in to the other roll up door. From there the pallet jack under the grinder diagonally worked great to get it into position.
It has the Bijur auto oiler for the table, fully automatic table feed for both axis, and obviously coolant. It needs a good cleaning, and the belts for the table drive need replacing. Overall a clean machine.
There's a lot going on in this 1000sq ft bay:
Lastly this showed up:
.
It's a modification for the hydraulic downfeed on the Ellis bandsaw. It moves the control to the front of the saw, and the toggle is a stop. This means you can lift the saw, throw the toggle, and it stays put while you load material, then throw the toggle and the downfeed speed is the same as it was prior. HUGE quality of life improvement. The bandsaw runs almost constantly for a few days processing bar stock in preparation for machining.
larry4406
Well-known member
You’ve come a long, long way from an upholstery shop.
Nice space and success!
Nice space and success!
Finallygotit
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Steven, you have acquired quite the horde of machinery my friend! Good for you.
Merry Christmas!
Merry Christmas!
rmack898
Well-known member
Me too
ODIS
Well-known member
WOW!
I was out of town last week working a project with some of my favorite people. Some long days on my feet, and a good week for sure. It feels so good to be back in the shop today. I got the Biltwell hyrdraulic feed mod installed on the Ellis 1600.
Installation is straight forward - remove the existing Parker needle valve, install the new valve block which means drilling and tapping two 1/4-20 holes, install the fittings, run the hoses, refill and bleed the hydraulics. I don't know the guy behind Biltwell personally. I'm thinking he's a guy in a similar situation to me. That definitely made supporting him feel even better.
This is a really simple idea and device.. executed very well. The toggle stops the motion of the bow without having to adjust the downfeed rate needle valve. I cut all my stock on this saw. It sees a lot of use. These little quality of life improvements can have a significant contribution to the smile factor day to day. I am really happy with the modification, and what he put together. It lacks nothing, does the job, and is a huge improvement. He has a "rapid feed" in development. This would go before the needle valve and act as a bypass to quicky lower the bow. I plan to add it when he releases it.
This is what I cam up with to refill the hydraulic fluid:
I got a box of these 2oz bottles with some Starbond CA glue. It worked perfectly, and I didn't have a mess to clean up from filing. It took about 5oz of fluid. I used ATF. The existing fluid was red, so I figure it's close enough.
More photos of the install:
Installation is straight forward - remove the existing Parker needle valve, install the new valve block which means drilling and tapping two 1/4-20 holes, install the fittings, run the hoses, refill and bleed the hydraulics. I don't know the guy behind Biltwell personally. I'm thinking he's a guy in a similar situation to me. That definitely made supporting him feel even better.
This is a really simple idea and device.. executed very well. The toggle stops the motion of the bow without having to adjust the downfeed rate needle valve. I cut all my stock on this saw. It sees a lot of use. These little quality of life improvements can have a significant contribution to the smile factor day to day. I am really happy with the modification, and what he put together. It lacks nothing, does the job, and is a huge improvement. He has a "rapid feed" in development. This would go before the needle valve and act as a bypass to quicky lower the bow. I plan to add it when he releases it.
This is what I cam up with to refill the hydraulic fluid:
I got a box of these 2oz bottles with some Starbond CA glue. It worked perfectly, and I didn't have a mess to clean up from filing. It took about 5oz of fluid. I used ATF. The existing fluid was red, so I figure it's close enough.
More photos of the install:
Thank you. It has been a hell of a journey, that's for sure!
Thank you! The shop has really taken a new direction this year. Excited for what's coming!Steven, you have acquired quite the horde of machinery my friend! Good for you.
Merry Christmas!
Thank you! There's definitely room, but it will come at the expense of some of the things I'm not ready to move out of the shop yet.Very nice Steven and I think there's enough room for more.
Ron
Initial impression is very good. I have a few hundred feet of aluminum bar stock to cut up. I'll keep you guys up to date as I use it. If you're using your saw much, I'm thinking it would be hard to regret this thing.
Thank you all for following along on this wild journey and taking the time to contribute to the conversation!
I ran the Ellis for about an hour last night while I fed the Okuma lathe. The Biltwell hydraulic control mod is well worth it for me. The saw is a lot more user friendly when cutting a lot of stock.
Speaking of the Okuma..
This is a total of 3-4 hours. On a manual lathe it was a couple few days. I ran the smaller parts in an hour last night. While I am absolutely daydreaming and trying to sort out making a dual spindle Y axis lathe a reality this year, this old beast is a huge improvement over what I was doing before I had it.
Starting to work the presetter into the mill tool setup work flow. This endmill still does a great job. Now that I know it’s 0.249, I can dial that in on the control and keep my parts sizes right.
I’m running a bunch of hardware for a client. In the process I made a few labels for some stray hardware of mine.
This is so incredibly satisfying. I’m going to call it… I will ultimately have a LOT of Schaller bins to get rid of at some point.
Speaking of the Okuma..
This is a total of 3-4 hours. On a manual lathe it was a couple few days. I ran the smaller parts in an hour last night. While I am absolutely daydreaming and trying to sort out making a dual spindle Y axis lathe a reality this year, this old beast is a huge improvement over what I was doing before I had it.
Starting to work the presetter into the mill tool setup work flow. This endmill still does a great job. Now that I know it’s 0.249, I can dial that in on the control and keep my parts sizes right.
I’m running a bunch of hardware for a client. In the process I made a few labels for some stray hardware of mine.
This is so incredibly satisfying. I’m going to call it… I will ultimately have a LOT of Schaller bins to get rid of at some point.
cycle61
Well-known member
Fill the basement of the other building with them. A giant Schaller bin ball pit!
Last edited:
RickP
Well-known member
Nice to be back in the shop after traveling for work!
That Biltwell valve looks like a nice upgrade.
Your photos of the hydraulic tubing/fittings are interesting, because it appears to be a relatively low pressure system. I'm used to seeing all metal fittings and metal tubing or heavy hoses. My (very limited) experience with hydraulics has all been 500+ psi (log splitter, tractor, etc.) Even car brake lines are a lot more beefy than that. Do the hydraulics hold the machine in position for cutting, or are they just used to move it, before locking it down for cutting?I got the Biltwell hyrdraulic feed mod installed on the Ellis 1600.
That Biltwell valve looks like a nice upgrade.
Good eye! I wondered the same thing.. the stainless/plastic push to connect air fittings are working well in this application. While it is clearly "hydraulic" in every sense of the word, it has to be really low pressure. This setup replaces the factory needle valve on the downfeed cylinder. I don't have any leaks so far.
GeddyT
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Fill the basement of the other building with them. A giant Schaller bin ball pit!
Ha! I'm wearing an XKCD shirt as I type this!
@slodat, I was going to ask you to spend some of your precious time explaining what the tool setter adds to the work flow, as I didn't understand why it would be faster than just probing the tool after putting it in the machine, but your pictures there totally answered my question. I would LOVE to have a tool that told me how "off" the diameter of my end mills are so I could more accurately mill, say, bearing races with circular interpolation. I tend to have to creep up on them (or overshoot and scrap the part). When you're looking for real precision, even the thermal expansion from machining can throw things off, as I've found the hard way.