Ethanol and its effects?

[ducatiti]

As mentioned various manufacturer's sites, anything more than 10% ethanol may hurt any equipment. I have a pressure washer, mower and trimmer that are more the 7 years old but do not see any effects even leaving in gas in the tank for a year or two.

Now, I have purchased Echo products instead of the above mentioned Craftsman machines, I am now more concerned with the equipment I have invested in. Although I have purchased several bottles of Echo premixed fuel, I plan to mix my own gas and oil in the future but worried about Ethanol levels.

Have you guys encountered problems with the local gas around your area and of course, your lawn equipment?

 

[stikman56]

I have found less of an issue with the fuel in two-stroke engines when they sit as long as it has the mix oil in the gas, for some reason, although I no longer use it in anything except my daily drivers.

 

[justanengineer]

Nope, the lil engines arent all that sensitive to it. I just sniff the fuel tank if its sat for more than a year, if it smells foul I dump it and fill with fresh. They always start within a pull or three, rarely four or more.

 

[ducatiti]

I have read a few threads mentioning Stihl equipment having problems due to the gas with more than recommended ethanol levels. Would love to hear from the others.

 

[Nyati]

As mentioned various manufacturer's sites, anything more than 10% ethanol may hurt any equipment. I have a pressure washer, mower and trimmer that are more the 7 years old but do not see any effects even leaving in gas in the tank for a year or two.

Now, I have purchased Echo products instead of the above mentioned Craftsman machines, I am now more concerned with the equipment I have invested in. Although I have purchased several bottles of Echo premixed fuel, I plan to mix my own gas and oil in the future but worried about Ethanol levels.

Have you guys encountered problems with the local gas around your area and of course, your lawn equipment?

I use non-ethanol gas in all my power equipment and my old Mercedes SL.

 

[pedrodagr8]

You can always do what I do and make your own ethanol free gas. It is very simple to do. Then you never have to worry about it again. Ethanol mixes freely with water, gasoline does not, so if you pour some water into your gas can and shake it around a bit the water will absorb the ethanol out of the gasoline and sit on the bottom of the can. Then after letting it settle for an hour or so you can pour the 100% pure gasoline off the top and you are good to go. If you did everything right (and you started with 10% ethanol gasoline) you will have 10% less gasoline than you started with because the 10% that was really ethanol will now be mixed in with the water at the bottom of the can.

If you want a more detailed description, I posted more on this topic 8 months ago in this thread.

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=258233

Sorry but this is not entirely correct. While it is true that water and gasoline are immiscible. Water forms an azeotrope (a mixture which is physically impossible to separate under traditional means) with a variety of aromatic compounds found in gasoline. As a result you are actually hydrating the gasoline to the tune of up to 5%, if my memory serves me correctly.

 

[pedrodagr8]

I don't think your memory is serving you correctly. Trust me, it works. I do it all the time for use in all my own power equipment. If you don't believe me try it yourself and prove me wrong.

The exact percentage is the only part I question my memory on. I work in a chemistry lab using ultra dry solvents, I encounter this property regularly and know it inside and it. That it occurs is not debatable, it's a fact. The only other question is if it's at a high enough percentage to even matter.

 

[ducatiti]

Found a local gas station with 100 octane, no ethanol Sunoco race fuel.

Will this work?

 

[1foxracing]

Found a local gas station with 100 octane, no ethanol Sunoco race fuel.

Will this work?

Yes! I'm lucky enough to have a regional airport close by that I can walk onto the flight line with a gas can and get LL 100 AV Gas. You just put your credit card into the machine and when it ask for the tail # you input "cash".

 

[michael murder]

You can always do what I do and make your own ethanol free gas. It is very simple to do. Then you never have to worry about it again. Ethanol mixes freely with water, gasoline does not, so if you pour some water into your gas can and shake it around a bit the water will absorb the ethanol out of the gasoline and sit on the bottom of the can. Then after letting it settle for an hour or so you can pour the 100% pure gasoline off the top and you are good to go. If you did everything right (and you started with 10% ethanol gasoline) you will have 10% less gasoline than you started with because the 10% that was really ethanol will now be mixed in with the water at the bottom of the can.

If you want a more detailed description, I posted more on this topic 8 months ago in this thread.

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=258233

Do you know if this affects the octane rating?

There are no ethanol-free gas stations in my town.

I feel my car ran better on ethanol-free gas and have thought about making my own.

 

[67King]

I have absolutely had this issue. Ended up replacing every small engine I had over the course of a couple of years. There are various fuel treatments to mitigate the affects of ethanol. Stihl sells 2 cycle oil with a mitigating component, and they'll double your warranty if you buiy a 6 pack of it when you buy the tool.

However, I just pay for pure gasoline in all of my lawn equipment. Don't mess with it any more. There are 2 easy ways to do this. Go to this website for gas stations near you that sell ethanol free gasoline, http://www.buyrealgas.com/. If there isn't one, then go to a marina, and buy gas there. The marine industry still operates on gasoline.

 

[kxlexus]

I have NEVER had a negative experience with Ethanol. Not one.

 

[Pstychologist]

Do you know if this affects the octane rating?

There are no ethanol-free gas stations in my town.

I feel my car ran better on ethanol-free gas and have thought about making my own.

It will lower the octane about 3 points.

http://www.fuel-testers.com/gasoline_octane_and_ethanol_E10.html

 

[Swan]

I use 91 octane, ethanol free gasoline on all my vintage British motorcycles, which were designed for higher octane leaded gasoline (petrol). Ethanol, in small percentages, is fine with use in modern equipment. Ethanol can however swell older carburetor o-rings, gaskets and rubber parts, causing air and fuel leaks. Even worse, gasoline with ethanol will dissolve old fiberglass tanks (Norton Commandos), gum up fuel lines, carbs and worse.

I run 91 octane in my modern Stihl chainsaw just to be safe. What type of gas do your owners manuals suggest?

 

[Wizzard]

Non ethanol gas has eliminated long-term storage issues I had previously, I only use non-ethanol for my small engines.

In cars ethanol fuel decreases gas mileage by 1-2 mpg

 

[Tim37]

Non ethanol gas has eliminated long-term storage issues I had previously, I only use non-ethanol for my small engines.

In cars ethanol fuel decreases gas mileage by 1-2 mpg

I noticed the same thing I get a noticeable decrease in mpg

I have other issues with putting ethanol in gas but this is not the place

 

[Scimmia]

Please don't muddy the waters with intellectual "technicality" type arguments and then use your credentials to give them validity.

LOL, "please don't confuse me with facts!"

 

[Pstychologist]

Ethanol has fewer BTUs per gallon, so it's obviously going to give you fewer mpg. Whether that is worth it to you is up to you. Sometimes when I'm traveling, I try to find pure gasoline, but for day to day driving, how I accelerate and brake make a bigger difference.

 

[thebeekeeper1]

I buy the Stihl MotoMix for my 2-cycle engines. For no more than you use it doesn't end up being expensive. For my old tractor and ATV I buy non-ethanol gas. You can find it at this site:

http://pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=MO

 

[Cope]

If you haven't had issues with small engines and Ethanol gasoline, you're on borrowed time. In Harris and adjoining counties, E-10 is all you can get. I run an Ethanol reducing additive in my small engine gas cans, along with Echo Red Armor 2 cycle mix.

 

[Pstychologist]

For anyone that's interested, I just found the real number that has been questioned related to pure gasoline absorbing water. According to the site I have linked, gasoline without ethanol at 70 degrees Fahrenheit will dissolve up to 150 parts per million water. 150 ppm is 150/1,000,000 x 100% = 0.015% H20. As you can see this number is statistically insignificant enough to make no difference whatsoever, so using water to remove ethanol from fuel is perfectly acceptable.

The site also shows that 10% ethanol fuel will dissolve up to 7,000ppm water. This number is 47x more than the ethanol free gasoline which is very close to the 50x difference between the two fuels that I stated previously. 50x was a number I found previously from several different reputable sources. 7,000ppm calculates to 0.7% water. As you can see, even with 10% ethanol in the gasoline the 5% number quoted by pedrodagr8 is way off.

Just for reference purposes, 0.5% is the concentration of water that causes 10% ethanol to phase separate from gasoline and this equates to a little less than 4 teaspoons of water per gallon of 10% ethanol gasoline.

http://www.fuel-testers.com/expiration_of_ethanol_gas.html

I think it unlikely that the gasoline refiners/haulers/retailers didn't already have the limit of water which the gasoline would hold when it is purchased.

 

[bob15]

Replaced fuel lines in 4 different chainsaws due to the ethanol eating the rubber. I also found that my garden tractors idle and run better with non-ethanol gas.

I use VP SEF in the chainsaws and pump non-ethanol gas in all other engines. I live about 2.5 hours from the pump gas, so I might not have it all the time. By using the VP on the saws, it is always fresh pure gas, smells good, and I don't need any stabilizer.

Ethanol makes a difference....in a negative way

A great website to find pure gas:

http://pure-gas.org/

 

[CJM8515]

I run my machines dry when stored, otherwise no issues. The ethanol will eat some older fuel lines and it will gunk up the carb really well if you let the thing sit to long.

I also use 92 octane or better as it usually has less ethanol.

 

[Askme42]

As mentioned various manufacturer's sites, anything more than 10% ethanol may hurt any equipment. I have a pressure washer, mower and trimmer that are more the 7 years old but do not see any effects even leaving in gas in the tank for a year or two.

Now, I have purchased Echo products instead of the above mentioned Craftsman machines, I am now more concerned with the equipment I have invested in. Although I have purchased several bottles of Echo premixed fuel, I plan to mix my own gas and oil in the future but worried about Ethanol levels.

Have you guys encountered problems with the local gas around your area and of course, your lawn equipment?

There are lots of places that you can get ethanol free fuel. Eliminates any problems.

 

[SantaAna12]

I run my machines dry when stored, otherwise no issues. The ethanol will eat some older fuel lines and it will gunk up the carb really well if you let the thing sit to long.

I also use 92 octane or better as it usually has less ethanol.

As CJM says, the higher the octane the lower the ethanol and gumming effect. I do not know what ethanol free costs, but I use higher octane fuels in my Yamaha 2000 and outboard mixes.
I started this after my last carb rebuild on my 22 year old outboard. I had never seen the gum.....varnishing yes....but the gum was hard as hell to get out.

 

[FiendFX]

As mentioned various manufacturer's sites, anything more than 10% ethanol may hurt any equipment. I have a pressure washer, mower and trimmer that are more the 7 years old but do not see any effects even leaving in gas in the tank for a year or two.

Now, I have purchased Echo products instead of the above mentioned Craftsman machines, I am now more concerned with the equipment I have invested in. Although I have purchased several bottles of Echo premixed fuel, I plan to mix my own gas and oil in the future but worried about Ethanol levels.

Have you guys encountered problems with the local gas around your area and of course, your lawn equipment?

Ethanol eats rubber. Ethanol requires more BTU to burn.

 

[warweapon762]

Ive had a couple issues where ethanol fuel caused dry rot in older carb gasket sets. Its also not very good for fuel pump diaphragms if you are running mechanical fuel pumps (more of an automotive issue).

 

[unslow1]

It really gunked up the carbs bad on one of my blower cars. Looks like snot when wet. Let it dry and it turns into a white powdery residue. Real pain to clean up. Still doesn't run right. I'll have to take it apart again. I must of missed something. Personally I hope they ban the stuff and I'm surrounded by farms. Most of my income come from them indirectly.

 

[Sal Bandini]

LOL, "please don't confuse me with facts!"

Lol.

Moynihan said it best:

"You are entitled to your opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts."

 

[Canoe50]

I have NEVER had a negative experience with Ethanol. Not one.

Neither have I. I use Stabil or Sea Foam for winter storage of gas in my 4 cycle mower & gas can & NEVER had any issues. Mower starts right up in the Spring & runs great during the mowing season. (along with other routine maintenance)
I store my mower with the tank full & use Regular 87 Octane. Been doing this for 30+ years & it's always worked for me using different mowers. Same with the snow blower, although I haven't had that many years using one.
Having said that, I would use non-ethanol gas if they had it where I fill up the Jeep.

 

[brianh]

Never had an issue. I use chains saws a lot, I mix my own fuel mix those premixes are a ripoff.

A few saws I have do not get much use and have sat with fuel in them, never had an issue.
An older husky 42 broke a fuel line last year considering the saw is over 20 years old thats normal wear.

Never had an issue with any other piece of equipment either that pointed to ethanol.

 

[t4runner]

All my equipment has shown no signs of trouble I have several 2 stroke and several 4 stroke. I use an additive / stabilizer in my gas. All my equipment is at least 15 years old other than a new pressure washer. I run the carbs dry during the off season but have never drained the tanks. Again I have never had any issues.

 

[franzdom]

I find that I get drunk when I consume too much ethanol.

 

[NC-Shaun]

I have NEVER had a negative experience with Ethanol. Not one.

Uh ok.....

Here is my experience with Ethanol, and before I start I will say I refuse to buy the **** gas with Ethanol in it.

Built my dirt bike in full mock up and had the brand new $600 carb dialed in perfectly or so I thought. Then I disassembled the bike entirely for paint, powdercoating. I forgot to run the bike with the fuel turned off until the carb was dry. Anyways, upon assembly less than 5 weeks later I fired the bike up in my attatched garage. The bike was bogging and misfiring, and the idle speed was all over the place (1200-2000 RPM)and stunk so bad that several hours later my girl friend came home and immediately asked why the entire house smelled of rotten fuel.

So, I suspected the carb was partially gummed up. Nope, it was spotless. Reassembled the carb and mounted on the bike. This time I went to a gas station that sold Ethanol free fuel, bought some 94 Ethanol Free fuel. The bike runs great, the idle sets at 1450-1500 RPM

Fast forward....

My buddy pays the Harley shop to soak his carb and rebuild it. Assembles it on the custom chopper, runs great. He leaves Ethanol fuel in it for a few months. Now the bike wont even start, I disassemble the carb and find algae, yes algae as in Kermit the frogs favorite pond scum in his carb along with what looks like leftover party favors from the movie "Blow"

Cleaned, installed new rubbers and float needle, runs great....

Same idiot does the same thing with his brand new 2008 KX 250 MX bike, same results except this time he tried to use Startron Enzyme Ethanol Fuel Treatment. It was the absoulute worst carb I had ever seen, when I disassembled it because the bike wouldnt run. The bike was less than 3 months old at this time.

Keep wearing blinders, Ethanol is garbage. The less of us that buy it, the less gas stations will try and sell it. Its even worse on fuel injection systems, pumps, O Rings etc.....I dont run Ethanol in anything. I also get noticeably better fuel mileage than most people due when comparing the same vehicle to theirs.

 

[rustyjames]

I wish I could buy non ethanol gas, but it's just not an option here. I buy high test for my small engine equipment and so far haven't had any problems.

 

[apdxyk]

that is what causes the problems with phase separation

What is phase separation, please? I didn't quite get it.
Thank you

 

[Showkey]

Your have to love the stories..........."I never had an ethanol problems so it must OK stuff"..........that's like saying my uncle smokes 3 packs per day and does not have cancer.....so smoking is actually good for you.

Any small engine dealer or car / motorcycle collector will confirm the issues with ethanol fuel especially related to storage.........ethanol is huge industry wide issue. The small engine guys will tell you it has put their kids through college and funded their retirement.

Fuel storage in warm humid weather is the most challenging.
As for SEAFOAM.........pull up the MSDS.......one of the main ingredients is alcohol.

Finding no ethanol fuel and using STABIL are the best line of defense.
In some regions finding no ethanol fuel maybe near impossible.
Draining the carb on an ATV , motorcycle , boat motor or generator if it is stored more than 30 days is critical.

For the record fuel going bad over time has always been a problem ( it funded my college education, working at the JD, Stihl, Yamaha dealer) ethanol has just made the problem huge and under the right conditions fuel can go bad in 30 days.

 

[brianh]

Your have to love the stories..........."I never had an ethanol problems so it must OK stuff"..........that's like saying my uncle smokes 3 packs per day and does not have cancer.....so smoking is actually good for you.

Any small engine dealer or car / motorcycle collector will confirm the issues with ethanol fuel especially related to storage.........ethanol is huge industry wide issue. The small engine guys will tell you it has put their kids through college and funded their retirement.

Fuel storage in warm humid weather is the most challenging.
As for SEAFOAM.........pull up the MSDS.......one of the main ingredients is alcohol.

Finding no ethanol fuel and using STABIL are the best line of defense.
In some regions finding no ethanol fuel maybe near impossible.
Draining the carb on an ATV , motorcycle , boat motor or generator if it is stored more than 30 days is critical.

For the record fuel going bad over time has always been a problem ( it funded my college education, working at the JD, Stihl, Yamaha dealer) ethanol has just made the problem huge and under the right conditions fuel can go bad in 30 days.

What story?, I stated from personal experience I have not had issues I own 15 chainsaws and assorted other equipment if someone else had a problem fine I haven't, I live in NY with wide seasonal changes.

I have used additive and at times have not, no difference in either case.

 

[NC-Shaun]

Your have to love the stories..........."I never had an ethanol problems so it must OK stuff"..........that's like saying my uncle smokes 3 packs per day and does not have cancer.....so smoking is actually good for you.

Any small engine dealer or car / motorcycle collector will confirm the issues with ethanol fuel especially related to storage.........ethanol is huge industry wide issue. The small engine guys will tell you it has put their kids through college and funded their retirement.

Fuel storage in warm humid weather is the most challenging.
As for SEAFOAM.........pull up the MSDS.......one of the main ingredients is alcohol.

Finding no ethanol fuel and using STABIL are the best line of defense.
In some regions finding no ethanol fuel maybe near impossible.
Draining the carb on an ATV , motorcycle , boat motor or generator if it is stored more than 30 days is critical.

For the record fuel going bad over time has always been a problem ( it funded my college education, working at the JD, Stihl, Yamaha dealer) ethanol has just made the problem huge and under the right conditions fuel can go bad in 30 days.

Yep, the repair shops are making a killing off of carb overhauls.....

Just wanted to add to my previous post. The exact same type of Harley carb that my buddy had issues with in a very short term storage scenario is on my current Harley. I had an emergency work situation that forced me to move my Harley into storage, I was under the impression I would return within a month but that month turned into 4 during the heat of southern summer in a storage locker. I thought for sure the bike wouldnt start when I got back and the carb would be varnished , but it fired right up because I use Ethanol free fuel. Later on I was fine tuning the jetting so I had a look inside this carb that sat for all of that time with fuel in the bowl. It was spotless as the day I built it over a year prior to that..........

 

[defektes]

I have run into issues on my Tecumseh engine (MTD Brand) riding mower. I have had to install a fuel shut off valve on the fuel line. When I am done running the mower I have to run it out of fuel or it will certainly destroy my carb. I have rebuild the carb three times before I installed the shut off valve. After the valve I have had minimal issues.

On my mid grade echo equipment (circa 2004) blower and trimmer I have had to R and R the carb on each once. Since using tru-fuel (no ethanol) I have had no issues.

On older carb vehicles the ethanol has been proven to eat the carbs, fuel lines, and reduce MPG in all applications. Ethanol is nothing but **** forced on us by those in power.