Euro Tools Query

[_brian_]

It is interesting the direction this thread has taken.

I would like to propose this question... why do we as tool users prejudge tools based on COO, rather then giving opinions based on real facts? For example, I might say two things to make my point:

1. This new Craftsman ratchet is total junk, no longer USA made.
2. This new Craftsman ratchet is total junk. The ratcheting mechanism has a tin sound, the button and lever are plastic and the head is large making it hard to get into tight places where most of my other ratchets have a thinner head.

I am equally guilty. I use extra caution when a tool is made in China, because my experience has told me that as stated here, the tools are often made as cheap as possible. This does not mean that China does not make good tools, it means we need to pay extra close attention. For example, Snap-On has tools in their catalog that clearly state they are made in China. Are they inherently bad tools, I am not sure that is a fair assessment on that fact alone. NOTE: I am not a Snap-On fan, but I do respect the overall quality of the brand. I also have my fair share of USA made tool junk, right next to some of the best tools I have used, which happen to be Taiwan made.

I guess this is why everyone I know has broken theirs within 1-2 months without abuse

I would be interested in hearing more about this. One example I can think of was somewhat mentioned in another thread regarding Astro ratchets. If you look at a ratchet like some made in Japan, they are made small to get in real tight places, however, they are not intended to handle as much torque as a result. So if all the buyers break them, and all the buyers are over torquing them, is this a fault of the tool? Another example is a tool, like a T15 socket with a 1/2 drive. If many are breaking them, how/why is this? Are they placing too much torque on them, because it is a 1/2 drive so 100 foot pounds is easy?

I am hoping to create some real conversation, not provoke anyone. I can only speak to my experiences, but I see many people in my geographical area use COO as a mark of quality .... I would never buy this tool again, I thought it was USA made and it is not. Ok, so.... how did the tool work? Same with those stating things like this tool will never hold up to professional use. Ok, well, why do you say that? I think that information is most helpful.

 

[dukefx]

COO is a good starting point, but no clear indicator. The HiPer ratchets simply aren't engineered well, even the anvil has a lot of play. Fine teeth ratchets tend to be bad in general in terms of durability. The double pawl design is somewhat better but still not as good as a good low tooth count ratchet. Combine all of these and you get a crappy ratchet.

Here's one of the Amazon.de reviews:
Bei der ersten Benutzung zu Reifenwechsel nach 1 Monat und 2 Tagen hat es in der Knarre geknackt.
Jetzt sitzt die Knarre fest und ratscht nicht mehr.
Dieses Modell kann man nicht zerlegen, und damit auch nicht reparieren.
Garantie über Amazone nicht möglich, da kein Rücksende Button mehr
angezeigt wird.

Translation in short: ratchet is stuck after a month and can't even be repaired.

Another one:
Tolle Ratsche, leider nach 4 Monaten im täglichen Werkstatteinsatz defekt. Die Ratsche wurde nicht überlastet. Die Ratsche rutscht einfach durch. Das Vorgängermodell (nicht feinverzahnt) hält immer noch. Amazon tauscht die Ratsche umgehend aus. Vielen Dank! Hoffentlich hält die Ersatzratsche länger....

Was used for 4 month without abuse and now the ratcheting mechanism is running freely.

There are hundreds of these. Next time I have a beer with one of my friends who used to have one of these I'll ask for details.

 

[_brian_]

Thanks, I find those details very interesting and appreciate hearing them.

Completely agree that COO is a factor.

 

[f121]

COO is a good starting point, but no clear indicator. The HiPer ratchets simply aren't engineered well, even the anvil has a lot of play. Fine teeth ratchets tend to be bad in general in terms of durability. The double pawl design is somewhat better but still not as good as a good low tooth count ratchet. Combine all of these and you get a crappy ratchet.

Here's one of the Amazon.de reviews:
Bei der ersten Benutzung zu Reifenwechsel nach 1 Monat und 2 Tagen hat es in der Knarre geknackt.
Jetzt sitzt die Knarre fest und ratscht nicht mehr.
Dieses Modell kann man nicht zerlegen, und damit auch nicht reparieren.
Garantie über Amazone nicht möglich, da kein Rücksende Button mehr
angezeigt wird.

Translation in short: ratchet is stuck after a month and can't even be repaired.

Another one:
Tolle Ratsche, leider nach 4 Monaten im täglichen Werkstatteinsatz defekt. Die Ratsche wurde nicht überlastet. Die Ratsche rutscht einfach durch. Das Vorgängermodell (nicht feinverzahnt) hält immer noch. Amazon tauscht die Ratsche umgehend aus. Vielen Dank! Hoffentlich hält die Ersatzratsche länger....

Was used for 4 month without abuse and now the ratcheting mechanism is running freely.

There are hundreds of these. Next time I have a beer with one of my friends who used to have one of these I'll ask for details.

This sounds like the Stahlwille 1/4” ratchets.

 

[Howe]

Excluding Wera and Wha what will you choose from Matador - Stahlwille - KS Tools - Elora and maybe Unior. I can't find any Wiha wrenches around my country and Wera Joker is too expensive for me.

 

[_brian_]

Excluding Wera and Wha what will you choose from Matador - Stahlwille - KS Tools - Elora and maybe Unior. I can't find any Wiha wrenches around my country and Wera Joker is too expensive for me.

What is interesting to me... obviously aside from Wiha and Wera, the only brand I have heard of before is Stahlwille. I have heard of KS Tools through this thread, but I am only counting what I have heard of prior.

 

[tamaraw]

Excluding Wera and Wha what will you choose from Matador - Stahlwille - KS Tools - Elora and maybe Unior. I can't find any Wiha wrenches around my country and Wera Joker is too expensive for me.

Assuming you are looking at wrenches, probably Stahlwille or Elora.

Wera joker is more of a specialty gimmick but could be useful depending upon the application.

FYI the current Wiha combination wrenches are Taiwanese if that matters, I believe they used to resell German Heyco wrenches.

I am not familiar with Matador or Unior and I have only heard a little about KS Tools.

There is also Hazet, Gedore, Facom, Beta, etc.

 

[f121]

Excluding Wera and Wha what will you choose from Matador - Stahlwille - KS Tools - Elora and maybe Unior. I can't find any Wiha wrenches around my country and Wera Joker is too expensive for me.

From that list, Stahlwille (but not for ratchets).

Personally I would buy Facom 440.

 

[Howe]

Thank you every one for reaching out. I found new old stock of Elora 12mm combination spanner with decent price. I user 12mm spanner quite a lot, so I need a good quality one.

 

[dukefx]

From that list, Stahlwille (but not for ratchets).

Personally I would buy Facom 440.

The 512 is rock solid and would probably outlive you, but I agree, most of their ratchets are ****.

 

[f121]

The 512 is rock solid and would probably outlive you, but I agree, most of their ratchets are ****.

I haven’t had the pleasure, but an aero engineer buddy had Stahlwille tool sets provided by their employer, after they kept destroying 1/4 ratchets in less than 4 months, they replaced them with snap on 1/4 ratchets. He speaks quite highly of their tools otherwise.

 

[silvertina]

COO is a good starting point, but no clear indicator. The HiPer ratchets simply aren't engineered well, even the anvil has a lot of play. Fine teeth ratchets tend to be bad in general in terms of durability. The double pawl design is somewhat better but still not as good as a good low tooth count ratchet. Combine all of these and you get a crappy ratchet.

Here's one of the Amazon.de reviews:
Bei der ersten Benutzung zu Reifenwechsel nach 1 Monat und 2 Tagen hat es in der Knarre geknackt.
Jetzt sitzt die Knarre fest und ratscht nicht mehr.
Dieses Modell kann man nicht zerlegen, und damit auch nicht reparieren.
Garantie über Amazone nicht möglich, da kein Rücksende Button mehr
angezeigt wird.

Translation in short: ratchet is stuck after a month and can't even be repaired.

Another one:
Tolle Ratsche, leider nach 4 Monaten im täglichen Werkstatteinsatz defekt. Die Ratsche wurde nicht überlastet. Die Ratsche rutscht einfach durch. Das Vorgängermodell (nicht feinverzahnt) hält immer noch. Amazon tauscht die Ratsche umgehend aus. Vielen Dank! Hoffentlich hält die Ersatzratsche länger....

Was used for 4 month without abuse and now the ratcheting mechanism is running freely.

There are hundreds of these. Next time I have a beer with one of my friends who used to have one of these I'll ask for details.

I was looking at purchasing both Stahlwille and Hazet 1/2 and 3/8 fine toothed ratchets. Yes, reading those reviews from actual German buyers turned me away from purchasing. Even on other German speaking forum sites they have some negative information.
I've decided to stick with my Kokens and Nepros ratchets.
The only German made tools that actually live up to expectations were the Stahlwille 14, 13, 20 series wrenches and the Manoskop torque wrenches with interchangeable heads.
The Hazet 600N wrenches I recently purchased is still out for verdict.

 

[F-22]

I am not familiar with Matador or Unior and I have only heard a little about KS Tools.

Unior is an old brand from Slovenia (but it's older than Slovenia or even Yugoslavia, they forged tools in that area way back in Austria...). I have a small collection of their older tools, and also a couple of complete sets o& their spanners/wrenches and some socket sets. They always had a complete catalogue of high end tools, and they were the top end tools on the YU market (apart from German and Italian imported tools whoch were rare). A step lower were Tang tools from Croatia which probably don't manufacture anymore (I also have a few, they're decent but the forgings were a lot more rough and they weren't grinded off or finished as nicely)

I'd say their wrenches are the best product of Unior. I have used Stahlwille, Hazet and gedore to compare them to. As all those manufacturers, through the years Unior had different quality levels. I'm nit sure if they sell multiple lines of tools today. I have plenty of "Unior Extra" grade wrenches, they were the middle quality type. They have a nice shape, maybe even a bit too slim for me. They have a matte-ish chrome theoughout the wrench. I have complete sets of Unior LSI. These are the wrenches they for sure sell today, and in the past they were the high end wrenches compared to the "extra". For example, the geometry change between the handle and the head on the edge is where the Extra has some forging marks while the LSI is completely grinded and has a smooth transition. Depends on the manufacturing age, but the more modern ones have a really nice finish (both LSI and later Extra models). The handle portion has that German matte chrome that's not slippery, the letters are very distinct but do not stick out too much, and the head has a really nice polished hard-chrome finish. I have some which were scratched a lot but the finish is thick enough that I don't think I ever saw a rusty one unless it was just cut apart with an angle grinder (don't think I ever saw a broken one either, but many cut wrenches for very special needs in tight spaces...).



I'd say sizes from 14mm and upwards are stahlwille quality. Smaller ones that I have are a bit more sloppy on the finish (sadly), but maybe brand new ones are better (I'm not sure). The smaller ones I own do not have a polished head, maybe they're just the older type too. I have an old Stahlwille style 13 combo wrench in the 10mm size that's really nice to use and for sure better finished than the Unior.

There were also low quality Unior wrenches mainly made for car repair toolkits (I have one "Mercedes Benz Unior" somewhere) that are a lot more cheaply made. In comparison, when Uniro made MB wrenches kind of like Hazet did, I am pretty sure Tang made wrenches for the Yugo and Zastava cars.

 

[_brian_]

I would pass on that for sure, the blue dots don't even extend to the end.

 

[F-22]

I'd also add that their sockets are pretty nice as well.


Similarly, half-matte, half-polished. The size designation is easy to read. But they're not as good as the top german brands or e.g. koken or snap on, I'd say they're more the competition to more generic Taiwan sockets like from Bahco or Wera (though these are made in Slovenia, not Taiwan). I think their ratchets are also made here but they're honestly not that great. They definitely work but I think some others have much nicer mechanism and design for that price.

Many of their other tools are imported rebrands from Taiwan today. It's been a long time since Unior made pliers... I'm not sure if their screwdrivers are still made by oplast, they used to be (used that patented Oplast handle like Gedore and Hazet do), but I think they import those from taiwan today too and I think they're lower quality, phillips tips wear out fast.

They might still make some swedish plumber/pipe pliers here (not sure). Also, they make the puller tools here, I think those are pretty high quality.

Btw none of the photos are mine.

 

[dukefx]

My father has 2 Unior combination pliers. I'd say they are on par with Gedore pliers. They are like ~20 years old tho so def. not recent production

 

[silkman]

I wrote my opinion on BGS tools based on my own use of them and I put some real world prices for comparison and for proper expectations (sometimes online prices aren't real world prices ). I'm DIY not pro mechanic but I hate **** tools.

If a 200mm special #10 Ribe socket from BGS is 8eur and the equivalent socket from snapon is 80eur then you can't compare the two. If you do, rest assured the snapon isn't x10 the tool to BGS. If you put it in an environment where all you do is open up VW engine heads all day, yes it will eventually break but the snapon will also break.

Hazet: Every tool can break in a tough environment and when used improperly, I'm really happy with the strength, fit and finish of my Hazet tools. Given my location, warranty replacement was ok, so I will keep using them and keep buying them whenever I can at discounted prices.

 

[_brian_]

I wrote my opinion on BGS tools based on my own use of them and I put some real world prices for comparison and for proper expectations (sometimes online prices aren't real world prices ). I'm DIY not pro mechanic but I hate **** tools.

If a 200mm special #10 Ribe socket from BGS is 8eur and the equivalent socket from snapon is 80eur then you can't compare the two. If you do, rest assured the snapon isn't x10 the tool to BGS. If you put it in an environment where all you do is open up VW engine heads all day, yes it will eventually break but the snapon will also break.

Hazet: Every tool can break in a tough environment and when used improperly, I'm really happy with the strength, fit and finish of my Hazet tools. Given my location, warranty replacement was ok, so I will keep using them and keep buying them whenever I can at discounted prices.

Well said. There is a point of diminishing returns for the DIYer, whereas the professional will often see benefit that DIYers do not. Such as the truck itself and the services it provides like delivering tohe tools to you, warranty service, etc. For those without a truck, those services do not exist but the price still includes it (passively).

I generally do not believe Snap-On tools are worth it, but I cannot deny their quality. That said, would never buy a Snap-On impact socket. They wear out really fast. If I hd a truck, fine, they replace them. But for me to send them back and deal with all that, not worth it. Point is that as you stated, all tools will break, all tools will wear out. It is all attributes that need consideration anlong with the specific environment and applications.

Regarding BGS, so far my very limited experience is they are fine. However, that means little given I have used only one socket, and a low torque socket at that. I would bet even the cheapest of cheap tool would fit that need. Only time will tell.

 

[Unior_USA]

Hi there! We noticed our name came up and wanted to say hello.

I'd say their wrenches are the best product of Unior. I have used Stahlwille, Hazet and gedore to compare them to. As all those manufacturers, through the years Unior had different quality levels. I'm nit sure if they sell multiple lines of tools today.

In general, no. Just one grade of tools, particularly as it pertains to our general tools line such as wrenches, ratchets, etc.

I'd say sizes from 14mm and upwards are stahlwille quality. Smaller ones that I have are a bit more sloppy on the finish (sadly), but maybe brand new ones are better (I'm not sure). The smaller ones I own do not have a polished head, maybe they're just the older type too.

The finish on our wrenches these days are consistent across the size range. I've seen some of the smaller sizes in older production runs (old old) and I do agree, they weren't the best indication of our quality.

There were also low quality Unior wrenches mainly made for car repair toolkits (I have one "Mercedes Benz Unior" somewhere) that are a lot more cheaply made. In comparison, when Uniro made MB wrenches kind of like Hazet did, I am pretty sure Tang made wrenches for the Yugo and Zastava cars.

One of my favorite "hey, check this out!" tools is a wrench we did for Mercedes-Benz as part of their in-car tool kits.

Many of their other tools are imported rebrands from Taiwan today.

Not as many as you'd think. When we can't produce it ourselves we always aim to first source from other European manufacturers.

It's been a long time since Unior made pliers...

Almost all of our pliers are still produced in-house.

I'm not sure if their screwdrivers are still made by oplast, they used to be (used that patented Oplast handle like Gedore and Hazet do), but I think they import those from taiwan today too and I think they're lower quality, phillips tips wear out fast.

Most, if not all, are still from Oplast.

Thanks, all!

 

[F-22]

Hey, firstly thank you for the time to reply here, it makes me very happy
I took the time to add some photos of the "collection" that accumulated over the years on my old family farm/land.
Here are the oldest Unior tools I have, with the old Orodje Zrece name (Zrece is where they manufacture them even today). I dont think they were chromed back then (probably 50's or older), but the ring-wrench was chromed or zinc plated at some point (does not look like zinc but for chrome it's really rough). The ratchet was bought new by my great grandfather, and I was told by my grandfather that when he got it, it was the only ratchet far around, people were very poor here back then and it was very unusual, and they only had three sockets for a very long time. I think the top part is so you'd torque stuff with a fixed handle rather than ruin the ratchet... I disassembled it once but it's still in totally normal condition, I still occasionally use it (especially if I work on something for a friend and I wanna show it off wrenches are common but the ratchets were very rare). Interesting how much nicer the letters are on the ratchet - maybe the tooling was just used so much less. They stamped wrenches that built Yugoslavia, while ratchets required you to use sockets which was a problem back then so they probably made far less of them...

In general, no. Just one grade of tools, particularly as it pertains to our general tools line such as wrenches, ratchets, etc.


The finish on our wrenches these days are consistent across the size range. I've seen some of the smaller sizes in older production runs (old old) and I do agree, they weren't the best indication of our quality.

For some reference, the far left one is I think what's called a DIN wrench, made to the German standard, and I think that was included in some car toolkits too - the wrenches with the 'Mercedes Benz' stamped on were in that style (can't find mine, I swear I had two but I assume my father must've taken them once haha). VW made lots of cars in YU (the old Golf/Rabbit models) so I assume Unior supplied those to them too, and maybe they even sold a complete set for industrial use too.
The next one is a Unior Extra rough model, and in the middle a much nicer Unior Extra with polished sides. Then a very odd Unior LSI with beefier edges, it is also thicker and all rough. And the more usual Unior LSI, but not the most recent version which should also have the polished ends like the Unior Extra in the middle.

Almost all of our pliers are still produced in-house.

Then I'm a little bit disappointed.


I've had these for some time, decently large pliers (300mm/12 inch) but the teeth rounded off quite fast and they weren't ever quite that good to begin with. Biggest issue is that they slip over he middle groove and aren't really that usable anymore. We have a lot of Unior tools at work too but generally try to avoid ordering their pliers. Especially these slip joint channellock style. All the wrenches and socketry are stamped Unior, and while I didn't had any older Unior pliers in my workshop (for sure I had a bunch of them but I don't know where they are, I'm not the kind of person to throw old tools away but I have a general set in my toolcart that's always used, then stash older stuff everywhere if I occasionally might need it in a pinch) I know those were also forge-stamped the Unior name. These shittier ones are just laser etched, but I guess that then means it's just a more modern version still made here?


I also have some combination pliers, the smaller ones are used daily for years now. They're okay, the teeth are still fine but they were never quite as aggressive as on my Knipex pliers, but generally fine (tend to reserve the knipex for more delicate occasions when I need a really firm grip). I also got some 300mm Cobras to replace those ****** large Unior pliers, and so far I'm really happy with them.

Most, if not all, are still from Oplast.

Interesting, then the quality just declined a little bit at some point. This one is an older one, the tip is still really good (and I use phillips a lot, I use this screwdriver the most):



I love the handle on these. Somehow it's very grippy but still very easy to clean. It's somewhat soft but not as soft as most other soft handles I've used. For comparison, I hate how nasty Weras get...

Now here's a Hazet I bought a few months ago, also made by Oplast. It's very similar, maybe a bit thinner in the middle but the tip seems very durable too. The handle gets dirtier than the Unior above, but nothing more than what is common for soft handles...




Now for the Uniors I dislike:


I just threw one away when I got the Hazet. The tips wear out and the handles get really dirty, and are very soft. The color on the photo maybe makes it look like they're less dirty than they seem in person. I throw the ones with bad tips away. Also the older handle shape just feels a lot better to me.

 

[F-22]

For extra comparison, some ring wrenches:

The most notable brands I have in this style. I think I should have a stahlwille somewhere too, but again I can't find it. The USAG ones are finished extremely well too. The Unior Extra is the most rough of the bunch, but I think these are all top notch brands. Overall I'd give USAG the edge here, those are probably as good as it gets for something like this and I think my Stahlwille was really similar. The Unior LSI is extremely consistent and nicely polished on the ends for their usual finish. The USAG isn't as shiny, but it's just more consistently smooth. Elora is huge but a little bit rougher...



My Unior socket set:


Really nice box, don't like plastic latches and hinges but they seem to hold up too, but the sheet metal is really nice. As for the actual tools... I think they're pretty good. I have a stahlwille 17mm socket to compare to, and they're a little bit thicker but not much. Again, really nice finish especially on the larger ones. Some older sockets have an all matte finish. This set is complete (the short extension is the only wrong part) but I have loads more of their sockets in my toolcart. The ratchet leaves a lot to be desired for if I compare it to my Snap On Dual 80, but it gets the job done. The new ones are different but I don't particularly like those either. This older one feels really crude and sometimes that actually feels better suited to certain jobs than a fine tooth ratchet.



The 19mm must've slipped past QC. It's the only 'failed' one I have and I have multiple Unior sets.
The really nice thing about Unior sockets are the big letters for me. You know what you grab, and it won't ever rub off. It's actually amazing that clear big letters aren't the norm for sockets in these modern times, and many (I have an imperial Proxxon set and a 3/8 wera set) just use laser etched marking that will disappear after a few years of use - really a big shame because those Taiwan sockets are very well made too. This is the on-the-go set I grab, but I have a lot of smaller sets of sockets in multiple garages, barns etc... but here's my socket drawer that's by far the used:



Not all Unior though, there are some other ones in the mix too, also some really ****** sockets that I should throw away.

 

[F-22]

Can't stop...

The long 'tube' wrenches (again don't know the English name) are really good from Unior. They're proper forged products.



Some of my ring- and combo- wrenches



My complete sets from Unior (a couple smaller combination wrenches are the Extra type, not LSI):




My longest wrench (not largest though - I have some ring-wrench close to 50mm large somewhere). It's huge, the 1/2" ratchet looks like a toy next to it



Some old wrenches in a storage closet I rarely use:


Another comparison of (larger) Unior wrenches through the years (Tang thrown in for comparison, much rougher finish...):


From top to bottom, the Tang, the shiny Unior Extra, the dull/rough Unior Extra, the unusual (only have two of these design, the other one in one of the top photos) dull thick and blocky Unior LSI, the standard dull LSI and the bottom is the LSI currently sold with the polished ends.
The polishing is actually really nice, but the camera just picks up the scratches which you'd normally not even see (however these wrenches are used, not just stored...).



Stahlwille series 13 combo wrench next to a smaller Unior LSI. This one is the version currently sold. The Unior ends are shinier than the stahlwille, while the stahlwille has a nicer uniform finish overall. I really like both. I hate that the stahlwille writes "13" on them because it confused me a few times. Both are nice in the hand.



3/4" Tang sockets. Very rough finish, probably even hand-marked.


Got lots of Unior pulling tools too. Never had a problem with these, but nothing to compare them to besides cheap chinesium stuff... I assume they're as good as other top end pullers.




Oldest Unior screwdriver I have:



That one has seen some stuff, and been resharpened many times. I assume it's Unior, could also be old TIK Kobarid (maybe even Tang). It was used for chiseling countless times, that handle is incredibly strong.

 

[Dave455]

Can't stop...

The long 'tube' wrenches (again don't know the English name) are really good from Unior. They're proper forged products.

The English name for these is “box spanner”. Not sure what the American name is.

For most jobs I can generally find a better tool than one of these, but I once had to remove a leadscrew from a lathe, and the only tool that would work was a box spanner, slid along he screw!

Totally agree regarding the engraved markings - the Unior are really good. I hate laser engraving!

Nice useful collection of wrenches!

 

[F-22]

For most jobs I can generally find a better tool than one of these, but I once had to remove a leadscrew from a lathe, and the only tool that would work was a box spanner, slid along he screw!

They're thinner than their sockets so for some really rare cases they come in handy. I mostly have 1/4 and 1/2 sockets only, so I should probably get a deep set of 3/8" sockets for those occasions, but as you said those situations aren't common.
You can also turn these unior ones with an open end wrench on the outer side, which can be very useful sometimes (cheaper ones not so much as they're usually just stamped sheet metal and deform under more torque...). Also, I just might have a drawer full of old "box spanners" cut to all kinds of lengths and with various handles welded on for when I needed a very specific tool for the job. The box spanners are the most fitting for such mods. TBH that box of old wrenches in the closet is there for such occasions too

Unior seems to go in the direction of making bicycle specific tools and I think these box spanners are a lot more common for that sort of work.

 

[Dave455]

They're thinner than their sockets so for some really rare cases they come in handy. I mostly have 1/4 and 1/2 sockets only, so I should probably get a deep set of 3/8" sockets for those occasions, but as you said those situations aren't common.
You can also turn these unior ones with an open end wrench on the outer side, which can be very useful sometimes (cheaper ones not so much as they're usually just stamped sheet metal and deform under more torque...). Also, I just might have a drawer full of old "box spanners" cut to all kinds of lengths and with various handles welded on for when I needed a very specific tool for the job. The box spanners are the most fitting for such mods. TBH that box of old wrenches in the closet is there for such occasions too

Unior seems to go in the direction of making bicycle specific tools and I think these box spanners are a lot more common for that sort of work.

Yes, they have their uses!

Both Hazet and Stahlwille used to offer “forged” versions that were constructed more like socket spanners.

Even though I’m not really into these, I’d snap up a set like this if I saw one for reasonable money. (This pic, sadly not mine, from a VW enthusiasts site)

Stahlwille only discontinued their version relatively recently, though their conventional box spanners are readily available.

Gedore still offer a forged version. Might be tempted to pick up a set.

 

[f121]

Thanks for sharing the unior tools @F-22

 

[_brian_]

WOW! Thanks @F-22 for sharing all of that. Also thanks to @Unior_USA for contributing. It is great to hear from the actual brands. Please pardon my ignorance on this topic, I see now even more than I thought that Euro tools are not the same as we have here in the US.

I wanted to share, although this is getting off the original topic, that I purchased a Sealey thread chaser. I have mixed opinions. The tool itself seems fine, but there is no branding on it, in fact, nothing at all stamped, etched or even printed. I purchased the tool, VS724 12mm spark plug thread chaser, as there is no options for this in my local market. I share this because I am more than willing to try out the Euro brands, especially on the tools that are not common here. There is always the option of the tool truck, but I do not wish to pay those prices. It seems to me that what the Euro folks consider cheap tools have a place here.

I appreciate the comments allowing me to learn of the Euro brands. I hope this thread continues on that. It is greatly appreciated.

 

[_brian_]

The English name for these is “box spanner”. Not sure what the American name is.

For what it is worth, as a US person, we do not have a lot of those. I have some, for example, I have one in my chain saw box. To be honest, I really do not even use it, I grab the appropriate size from my tools.

Could I ask the question... why would I want such tools? In my box I have shallow, deep and some mid length sockets, wrenches in open, box and flare styles, crow feet and pass through type sockets. Where do these fit in?

It seems that calling these "tube socket" is the American term.

 

[Dave455]

For what it is worth, as a US person, we do not have a lot of those. I have some, for example, I have one in my chain saw box. To be honest, I really do not even use it, I grab the appropriate size from my tools.

Could I ask the question... why would I want such tools? In my box I have shallow, deep and some mid length sockets, wrenches in open, box and flare styles, crow feet and pass through type sockets. Where do these fit in?

It seems that calling these "tube socket" is the American term.

We don’t see ‘em a lot in the U.K either!

Historically, the design predated the interchangeable socket, and they worked o.k. in an era of low torques.

The only uses I really see for them is for someone who wants to access a nut or bolt from above, but doesn’t want to carry a socket set. I’m thinking of a gardener putting a bolt through a fence post, or removing a spark plug from a mower.

There were once some industries where these were common - in the pre transistor era, radio equipment was generally made with hand tools, and box spanners were one such tool. You could spin down a nut by holding the spanner in your fingers, and just use the bar to tighten.

I have only found one application where they are the only tool that would work, and that was removing a lathe leadscrew. The nut holding it in place was at one end of the leadscrew, and recessed so that you couldn’t get a wrench on. You couldn’t use a socket either, as the leadscrew was about 3 feet long!

There are at least two British manufacturers still making these things, but I suspect they are primarily supplied with products that are delivered “flat pack” and need local assembly!

 

[f121]

Could I ask the question... why would I want such tools?

You probably don’t. I’ve inherited a few from my grandfather, never used them. They’ll go in the scrap during a clearout at some point.

The only one that may get used is for a Volkswagen 02o gearbox selector plug, because I don’t have a hex key that big.

 

[dukefx]

Yes, they have their uses!

Both Hazet and Stahlwille used to offer “forged” versions that were constructed more like socket spanners.

Even though I’m not really into these, I’d snap up a set like this if I saw one for reasonable money. (This pic, sadly not mine, from a VW enthusiasts site)

Stahlwille only discontinued their version relatively recently, though their conventional box spanners are readily available.

Gedore still offer a forged version. Might be tempted to pick up a set.

Nowadays these are usually accessories for certain vehicles, mostly motorbikes. My scooter for example came with one for the spark plug. They require very little space and are versatile, but too fiddly for regular use.

 

[F-22]

Yep those often came with motorcycles or old car toolkits. I think a cheap box spanner does its job much better than a normal wrench made for the same production costs (the shaped tube box spanners are very inexpensive to make...). The proper forged ones from Hazet or Gedore (or Unior) probably end up costing more than an equivelant socket...


I think their best usage example is when sou'd want a very soecific but very minimal tool set. Like you only need a 10m and 13mm socket but don't want to carry a ratchet. A single quality 10-13 box spanner will do that job, and it'll be lighter than sockets and a ratchet. You can store a screwdriver inside it, and then you have everything you need.

Another case is when there's not enough clearance to use a ratchet.

 

[silkman]

They have their uses. On my Audi the latches for the rear seat bench need one 19mm "tube socket" to undo a nut while counterholding an allen bolt from inside the tube socket with a long allen key, nothing else fits.

I've also seen some home appliance repair guys use them a lot.

Surprisingly the el cheapo versions work better than the Hazet / Gedore forged ones as they are just a hollow tube which you can use another tool from inside.

 

[_brian_]

On my Audi the latches for the rear seat bench need one 19mm "tube socket" to undo a nut while counterholding an allen bolt from inside the tube socket with a long allen key, nothing else fits.

For most of those types of applications I use a pass through socket. Although I cannot speak on your application as I have not seen it. Do you think such a socket would work in your case?

 

[F-22]

For most of those types of applications I use a pass through socket. Although I cannot speak on your application as I have not seen it. Do you think such a socket would work in your case?

Didn't know those existed. But tbh they're kind of the same tool - like cutting one of those Hazet box spanners that were posted higher up in half. So for sure they can do the same job.

 

[_brian_]

Just to make sure (and I know people here like pictures), I refer to a socket like this. The multiple pics just showing the usage with a wrench, ratchet and a flex head.

 

[_brian_]

They also have extensions for them, to I think better match the cases where you cannot get a wrench on them. The picture of the set attached here is the set that I have and is my point of reference.

 

[tamaraw]

There are also some regular square drive ratchets with a hole through the anvil that allows you to slip a small allen key in. Proto makes some, not sure who else.

Proto 3/8" Drive 24 Geared Teeth Pear Head Style Hand Ratchet, 7" L, Full Polish Finish J5249HS | Zoro

Order Proto 3/8" Drive 24 Geared Teeth Pear Head Style Hand Ratchet, 7" L, Full Polish Finish, J5249HS at Zoro.com. Great prices & free shipping on orders over $50 when you sign in or sign up for an account.

www.zoro.com

Or there are push-through ratchets like this Elora where you could drill a hole through a spare male/male square drive for a similar result:

Elora Push Through Reversible Ratchet, 3/8" Sq. Dr., 200mm

Established in 1919, Draper Tools is a supplier of quality trade, professional and diy tools. Check out the massive range of tools available from one supplier.

www.drapertools.com

 

[_brian_]

There are also some regular square drive ratchets with a hole through the anvil that allows you to slip a small allen key in. Proto makes some, not sure who else.

Proto 3/8" Drive 24 Geared Teeth Pear Head Style Hand Ratchet, 7" L, Full Polish Finish J5249HS | Zoro

Order Proto 3/8" Drive 24 Geared Teeth Pear Head Style Hand Ratchet, 7" L, Full Polish Finish, J5249HS at Zoro.com. Great prices & free shipping on orders over $50 when you sign in or sign up for an account.

www.zoro.com

Or there are push-through ratchets like this Elora where you could drill a hole through a spare male/male square drive for a similar result:

Elora Push Through Reversible Ratchet, 3/8" Sq. Dr., 200mm

Established in 1919, Draper Tools is a supplier of quality trade, professional and diy tools. Check out the massive range of tools available from one supplier.

www.drapertools.com

Interesting, never seen those or anything like them before.

 

[F-22]

Seems a lot more useful for 1/2" drive though (3/8 is still quite small...), but I'd definitely grab one if they sold them here (but I never saw anything like this here in Europe).