#FabSpace

[lilscorpion]

There was a set of 17", 8 on 6.5" Hutchison's that showed up on Roller auction maybe a year ago. They had been labeled poorly and they sold very cheap, like $200 or thereabouts cheap. I was so mad at myself for not setting up an alarm to keep from forgetting about them, but I didn't remember until they had already sold.

Dang…like $200 a wheel? Not surprised I guess. Knowing what that are, I’d probably look at the pile and think “wonder I’d they’re straight and hold air?” Good deal if they were/did tho.

another reminder to check roller. Keep forgetting.

 

[zmotorsports]

Everything is looking great Matt. I really like the mods to the Powertank bracket and handle. Is that the 15 pound tank? Are you mounting it vertical in the rear of the Jeep?

I am so glad I went with the Powertank setups about 3 years ago now. Haven't looked back. I have my airing up down to a science and like you, I kept my ARB dual compressor that is mounted under the passenger's seat.

When I am airing up I use the Powertank to air up the tires, which is very fast, however, the coiled hose is then very cold and stiff making it difficult to put back into the small storage bag and back in place in the rear of the Jeep. You know how it is, there's a place for everything and everything must be in it's place.

I figured out a routine several years ago that works perfect to accomplish a couple of things. I air up my tires and then disconnect the cold and stiff coiled hose from the tank. I turn the tank off, put the small cloth cover back over the regulator then plug the cold stiff hose into the air port under the passenger's seat, turn on the ARB compressor and blow the engine bay out and the interior of the Jeep with a few quick blasts of air. This thaws the frozen coiled air hose in no time. Now I have a clean engine bay, clean dash and interior AND a hose that easily fits right back into the storage bag neatly in its place in the back of the Jeep ready for the next day of wheeling.

I carry two 10-gallon Powertanks so when one is emptied, I can swap over to the back-up. This works well for our week plus long Jeep rallies and gatherings as one tank wouldn't quite be enough for a week, especially on some days when we run more than one trail and I'm airing down a couple of times.

As for beadlocks, have you popped beads in the past? What pressures do you usually run down to? I waffled on beadlocks when I went to 37's but couldn't justify the cost and especially did not want the ongoing maintenance with them.

 

[lilscorpion]

Everything is looking great Matt. I really like the mods to the Powertank bracket and handle. Is that the 15 pound tank? Are you mounting it vertical in the rear of the Jeep?

I am so glad I went with the Powertank setups about 3 years ago now. Haven't looked back. I have my airing up down to a science and like you, I kept my ARB dual compressor that is mounted under the passenger's seat.

When I am airing up I use the Powertank to air up the tires, which is very fast, however, the coiled hose is then very cold and stiff making it difficult to put back into the small storage bag and back in place in the rear of the Jeep. You know how it is, there's a place for everything and everything must be in it's place.

I figured out a routine several years ago that works perfect to accomplish a couple of things. I air up my tires and then disconnect the cold and stiff coiled hose from the tank. I turn the tank off, put the small cloth cover back over the regulator then plug the cold stiff hose into the air port under the passenger's seat, turn on the ARB compressor and blow the engine bay out and the interior of the Jeep with a few quick blasts of air. This thaws the frozen coiled air hose in no time. Now I have a clean engine bay, clean dash and interior AND a hose that easily fits right back into the storage bag neatly in its place in the back of the Jeep ready for the next day of wheeling.

I carry two 10-gallon Powertanks so when one is emptied, I can swap over to the back-up. This works well for our week plus long Jeep rallies and gatherings as one tank wouldn't quite be enough for a week, especially on some days when we run more than one trail and I'm airing down a couple of times.

As for beadlocks, have you popped beads in the past? What pressures do you usually run down to? I waffled on beadlocks when I went to 37's but couldn't justify the cost and especially did not want the ongoing maintenance with them.

This tank is a 10lb tank. I've never used them as primary sources, only as backups so they last quite a while. In fact, I've only once had an issue with my air compressor. The only time I've used the tank myself was when my truck and trailer picked up some nails on the highway on the way to Moab. My Jeep was loaded and my hose wasn't long enough. I plugged all the holes and the power tank saved the day. Every other time I've used it I ended up filling someone else's tire or using it to help fix someone else's problem.

I don't mount mine vertically so I can't use air in the tank without removing it from the vehicle. I did get it installed last night but didn't get the tank it in (I know, super lame).



Mounted horizontally the tank fits perfectly between the head-rest and the rear hatch. The spacers you see are little stand-offs that elevate it just enough so that everything clears. I didn't bother to show the process, they're just solid 6061 with a hole in them and powder coated (of course).



Yeah the CO2 does tend to freeze the hose and regulator. I'm not sure I've ever used the tank in the winter, it's usually summer so the freezing doesn't matter much. I usually have enough time to hang it over one of the tires and let it thaw quick while everyone else is BS'ing. I like the compressor trick tho. My single motor compressor I run my airlocks gets fairly hot and pumps hot air from under the hood. That would probably do the trick quick. Cool hack Mike.

I've de-beaded a few times years ago. Most of the situations I had the pressure too low and my situation had me pushing against the inside bead when trying to back off of something. How low I run depends on what I'm doing. Most of my experience is on 37's with a 17" wheel. If I'm just doing dirt trails I may drop to 12-14 without beadlocks and 10-12 with beadlocks. If the trail has rock beds (Spring Creek and Wheeler Lake both come to mind), a trail has some fairly technical sections, or the terrain needs a wider footprint (snow, sand, etc) I may air down to 4-6lbs. Way back in the day I had Staun internal bead locks which allowed me to go even lower but I'm not sure that going below really helped me in any situation as I'd start to lose steering function.

I don't have much negative to say about beadlocks. These newer styles seal well and don't leak. Under normal (barely) driving conditions I typically check the bolts daily for the first 2 weeks, weekly for the first few months, and then monthly there-after. If I trailer the jeep to the train (which I used to do but can't now obviously), I'll just re-check after the first trail and then not until the post wheeling inspection. That's my OCD pattern. Back when I had my XJ on 35's and beadlocks I think I checked them half a dozen times in 2 years. Never did get loose. Probably too trusting back then and too obsessive compulsive now.

So you don't have an ARB compressor now? Only running the PowerTanks? Why'd you remove it?

Matt

 

[zmotorsports]

So you don't have an ARB compressor now? Only running the PowerTanks? Why'd you remove it?

Matt

I use my setup pretty much the opposite of you Matt. My CO2 tanks are my primary source of airing up tires, which is why I carry two vs. just one. I cannot get through a full rally/gathering (six days) of wheeling on only one tank. I can get 4+ full air ups (16-18 tires) on these 37's from trail pressure (12 PSI) back to street pressure (28 PSI).

I've had multiple air setups over the past 11 years of owning this Jeep now. Prior to this Jeep I just used a portable Viair setup in a canvas bag in the back of the Jeep that I used for airing up. It worked great but I wanted something more permanently mounted when I got the JK. With this Jeep I went from the portable to a mounted, to a complete dual compressor with air tank setup and then back to a single mounted in the rear cargo area and NONE of them impressed me and ALL but the portable setups had compressors fail due to heat. About 5 years ago I had given up on Viair and bought the dual ARB and mounted it under the passenger's seat. This setup worked flawlessly but still a bit slower than I liked. I was always one of the last to be aired up, usually because I was either tail-gunning and getting to the air-up spot last OR if I was leading I would check on everyone in the group as they rolled in to ensure everything was ok and I was still the last one aired-up.

When I went to the 37's I said enough is enough and I wasn't going to be holding others up or leaving 20-minutes after everyone else so I went with the dual 10 pound Powertanks and haven't looked back. I kept the dual ARB under the passenger's seat as redundancy. You know the old saying, "two is one and one is none." I then figured out it was a great way of thawing out the frozen coiled air hose which would allow me to quickly put everything away in its proper place without having to wait until back at camp when the hose thawed out.

It is also not uncommon to air down and back up more than once a day depending on the trails we run and distance between them. If only a few miles to about 10 miles I generally won't air up and just take it slow. However, more time than not it is much further than that, especially when we wheel in South Dakota or Ouray areas so having a quick way of airing down and back up is nice and the Powertank fulfills that need. Plus it is relatively inexpensive to refill once we arrive back home.

As for popping beads I have never lost one on the trail so I can't justify beadlocks nor want them but 12 PSI is the lowest I air down to. Been on the trail with a few friends who have lost a bead here and there and nearly every time I could tell when it was going to happen by the way or angle that they attacked the obstacle. Maybe if I had lost beads a few times I would feel differently but I have a completely different take on beadlocks. Plus with our local club most of the mall crawlers think they HAVE to have beadlocks otherwise they're not real Jeepers. My wife is convinced part of my stubbornness is just to prove them wrong. She may be on to something.

As for air pressures, I pretty much air down to 12 PSI when doing most trails. IF only fire roads and just want to take the harshness out of the ride I may stop around 15~ish PSI but I always air down nowadays. It's not worth beating the **** out of the Jeep or the passengers by running at street pressure if even for a short trail. Too quick and too easy to air down not to.

 

[lilscorpion]

I use my setup pretty much the opposite of you Matt. My CO2 tanks are my primary source of airing up tires, which is why I carry two vs. just one. I cannot get through a full rally/gathering (six days) of wheeling on only one tank. I can get 4+ full air ups (16-18 tires) on these 37's from trail pressure (12 PSI) back to street pressure (28 PSI).

I've had multiple air setups over the past 11 years of owning this Jeep now. Prior to this Jeep I just used a portable Viair setup in a canvas bag in the back of the Jeep that I used for airing up. It worked great but I wanted something more permanently mounted when I got the JK. With this Jeep I went from the portable to a mounted, to a complete dual compressor with air tank setup and then back to a single mounted in the rear cargo area and NONE of them impressed me and ALL but the portable setups had compressors fail due to heat. About 5 years ago I had given up on Viair and bought the dual ARB and mounted it under the passenger's seat. This setup worked flawlessly but still a bit slower than I liked. I was always one of the last to be aired up, usually because I was either tail-gunning and getting to the air-up spot last OR if I was leading I would check on everyone in the group as they rolled in to ensure everything was ok and I was still the last one aired-up.

When I went to the 37's I said enough is enough and I wasn't going to be holding others up or leaving 20-minutes after everyone else so I went with the dual 10 pound Powertanks and haven't looked back. I kept the dual ARB under the passenger's seat as redundancy. You know the old saying, "two is one and one is none." I then figured out it was a great way of thawing out the frozen coiled air hose which would allow me to quickly put everything away in its proper place without having to wait until back at camp when the hose thawed out.

It is also not uncommon to air down and back up more than once a day depending on the trails we run and distance between them. If only a few miles to about 10 miles I generally won't air up and just take it slow. However, more time than not it is much further than that, especially when we wheel in South Dakota or Ouray areas so having a quick way of airing down and back up is nice and the Powertank fulfills that need. Plus it is relatively inexpensive to refill once we arrive back home.

As for popping beads I have never lost one on the trail so I can't justify beadlocks nor want them but 12 PSI is the lowest I air down to. Been on the trail with a few friends who have lost a bead here and there and nearly every time I could tell when it was going to happen by the way or angle that they attacked the obstacle. Maybe if I had lost beads a few times I would feel differently but I have a completely different take on beadlocks. Plus with our local club most of the mall crawlers think they HAVE to have beadlocks otherwise they're not real Jeepers. My wife is convinced part of my stubbornness is just to prove them wrong. She may be on to something.

As for air pressures, I pretty much air down to 12 PSI when doing most trails. IF only fire roads and just want to take the harshness out of the ride I may stop around 15~ish PSI but I always air down nowadays. It's not worth beating the **** out of the Jeep or the passengers by running at street pressure if even for a short trail. Too quick and too easy to air down not to.

I would agree with you, none of the electrical compressor setups are fast, the ARB dual compressor is the fastest, and it's still not fast. We've not done many group trail rides over the last 5 or so years so it's typically down once and then back to street pressure before we head home. In that case, I'm really in no big hurry. Many times I am the last one on the trail or some stay behind to BS while I'm trying to air up. I do have a plan actually for the 40's now given it'll take even longer. That plan as it stands now is I'll probably use both systems together. Let the compressor battle it out for 10 minutes or so and then switch over to CO2 to top them off. Just typing it however has me questioning if I'll ever really do that more than once. I have contemplated on getting a second cylinder. Probably will.

Funny to read about members of your club and their need for beadlocks. It might be near the last of the list of things I really need and the first thing on this build I could easily give up. Truth be told tho, I didn't buy them so I could air down. That is a benefit however the real reason I think I need them is to protect the outer bead of the wheel. Not like you think though, you'd probably say "what about your inner bead?" I don't like it when my outer lip is all scraped up. It really bothers me. I can live with a scared bead lock ring because I know I can just replace it if I want to with a new one but I can't live with scuffed up wheels. Such a silly reason I know...

Looking for a second tank now. Need matte black 10 lb version. There was a bronco focused off-road shop out east that used to have cylinders only cheaper than anyone in the country but I'm not having luck finding them at the moment...

 

[lilscorpion]

No shop update tonight but I did smoke a lamb roast during work. Still learning but turned out really good.



Smoked it for a couple hours and then cooked it at ~275 until internal temp of 144*. Would like it a little more rare tho, next time we’ll pull it at ~140*.



overall, a good valentines dinner tonight.

 

[csp]

Dang…like $200 a wheel? Not surprised I guess. Knowing what that are, I’d probably look at the pile and think “wonder I’d they’re straight and hold air?” Good deal if they were/did tho.

another reminder to check roller. Keep forgetting.

No, $200 for a set of four! Their description was bad, and so were the photos so unless someone really knows what one looks like they probably would have had no idea what they were. I've been lusting after a set for way too many years.

I'm always checking Roller and making lists. It's logging in on auction day I always seem to forget.

 

[lilscorpion]

No, $200 for a set of four! Their description was bad, and so were the photos so unless someone really knows what one looks like they probably would have had no idea what they were. I've been lusting after a set for way too many years.

I'm always checking Roller and making lists. It's logging in on auction day I always seem to forget.

Daym. Just….daym. That’s the “buy a set for me and three sets to sell” price. Crazy..

 

[zmotorsports]

I really like having the two tanks Matt, but I only use one at a time until it is depleted then switch my regulator over to the other. Having mine at an angle allows me to keep the tank in the bracket when airing up. Not a huge deal but a bit quicker when I just merely remove the cloth cover, open the valve and hook up the hose and start airing up. Mid-week I find myself taking a bit longer on one of the fills due to having to switch tanks around but it's not that big of a deal. It allows me to air up quickly (usually less than 10 minutes total start to finish) and then I can wander around with my wife and visit others while they are finishing airing up.

The roasted lamb sure looks delicious.

 

[lilscorpion]

I really like having the two tanks Matt, but I only use one at a time until it is depleted then switch my regulator over to the other. Having mine at an angle allows me to keep the tank in the bracket when airing up. Not a huge deal but a bit quicker when I just merely remove the cloth cover, open the valve and hook up the hose and start airing up. Mid-week I find myself taking a bit longer on one of the fills due to having to switch tanks around but it's not that big of a deal. It allows me to air up quickly (usually less than 10 minutes total start to finish) and then I can wander around with my wife and visit others while they are finishing airing up.

The roasted lamb sure looks delicious.

If I switch over to using CO2 as my primary inflation process (more often) then I'll change how mine mounts. They do make a tube kit that you can have installed by powertank which enables you to fill while on it's side. Not going there though. Then i'd have to commit to always having it on it's side which would be a pain.

 

[Bigblue&Goldie]

We had ours clamped to the rear down tube of the roll cage. I'm not sure if yours would work in that orientation with the platform?

 

[lilscorpion]

We had ours clamped to the rear down tube of the roll cage. I'm not sure if yours would work in that orientation with the platform?

My last bottle was mounted there. It just barely fits however I can't get it out of the cradle because it's pinched between the the top and rear of the roof. If I switched the mount style to be more like the race version (which doesn't have the bottom piece that the tank sits on), I could probably make it work. Really the problem is the rack has to be in hit's highest mounting position in order to clear the cooler that goes below it. If I were able to drop the rack even 1" I could probably get the tank out. This is an example where all of the parts do fit together but just barely. I may need to re-visit the over-all setup in the back. I have a full-width slide out tray that the cooler and other gear slides on. What I might need to do is build my own setup that allows me to move to individual slide out drawers/trays instead.

 

[zmotorsports]

We had ours clamped to the rear down tube of the roll cage. I'm not sure if yours would work in that orientation with the platform?

That is how I have both of my 10 pounders mounted but thought the same thing with his cargo rack. Mine is close with my Mac's Black Box toolbox and clears the hardtop enough to get to the valve as well as putting the canvas cover on and off, also one of the reasons I went with dual 10 pounders vs. a single 15 pound bottle.

 

[tarbellb]

Did you have to negatively charge the lamb for better results?

 

[lilscorpion]

Getting prepped for a fab-full weekend, I'm adding a few tools to my arsenal.

Here's a new Norseman 82* 6 flute counter sink to replace the one I crashed into a work piece last weekend.



You ain't lived until you've crashed a CNC. $hit gets real really really fast. My dumb a$$ managed to enter the wrong tool into the program so the tool height was off by about 2". More or less, that means the CNC controller tries (at 100%) to push the tool 2" further through the material than is healthy. Outcomes less than idea as pictured below.



Also have a few new magical cutters to add to my bad-assery collection. One is a carbide 3 flute endmill with 2 1/4" depth of cut. I needed an aluminum end mill that made it easier to face thicker parts (or hint: un-equal aluminum angle). The other is a 6 flute end mill that wants to eat some steel at higher feed rates than I was able to previously. Have some plans to do some cool things this year which require this kind of mojo. #FullyGettinIt

Also, honorable mention is the ER 20 collets I just added to the collection. ER 20's are slightly larger than the ER 16 collet chucks, with a tool capacity of up to 1/2", but have a significantly smaller diameter than the ER 25 chucks. Though it's not obvious, this is a big Fn deal because it enables the holder to get into tighter places when machining in tight areas.

and a fun preview...in the background is my next project I've been chipping away at this week. Maybe some of you already have an idea??

 

[bugnut]

Matt, crashed endmills and cutters over the years. Find the impact makes them harder to remove from the holder. Rapid traverse into a table, chuck or clamp is hard on all parts of the equipment. And the boss usually has a few choice words.....

 

[4 FN 27]

Matt, crashed endmills and cutters over the years. Find the impact makes them harder to remove from the holder. Rapid traverse into a table, chuck or clamp is hard on all parts of the equipment. And the boss usually has a few choice words.....

Only person that does not make any mistakes is the person who doesn't make anything.

In my tenure of doing fabrication work I cannot count the number of blown bottom dies because of a typo. Broken End Mills, Blown Lenses on Lasers, nicked shear blades...recognize the mistake, implement "something" to avoid it happening again, learn from it and move on. As the guy that ends up paying for it "choice words" are saved for willful intent to cause harm when you know better.

This week one of our truck drivers stopped the forklift halfway out of the dock truck and hit the garage door down button thinking he could back the rest of the way out before the door would get to the forklift. Guess what...$800-900 later and on Tuesday or Wednesday we will have a new lower panel. This one deserves a few "choice words".

Wednesday one of the guys crashed one of the Turrets. He gave me his story of how it happened and I have my thoughts on what really happened based on a CYA statement he made. We will sort that out this morning. All I ask is tell me the truth so we don't chase a problem that does not exist or call /fly technicians in to chase a problem that does not exist.

Between Maintenance, a few of the Fab guys in the Press Brakes and a few others pitching in to help we were able to straighten out the parts and bolt the machine back together again. Total lost hours I am going to estimate 18-20 not including the machine downtime and opportunity cost of those involved doing nonproductive work.

Unless I am 100% correct in my assumption of what really happened I will not use a "few choice" words. I will tell the operator my thoughts and I'll read his reaction and we will go from there.



Keep up the great work Matt!!!

 

[lilscorpion]

Matt, crashed endmills and cutters over the years. Find the impact makes them harder to remove from the holder. Rapid traverse into a table, chuck or clamp is hard on all parts of the equipment. And the boss usually has a few choice words.....

Man are you right on the money. 2 of the holders which I'm attempting to replace the tools right now will not let go of the tool. At first I thought it was because the tool had been in them so long but based on what you said, I do now think it's the crash that set the tool instead. Not sure I can save them but I'm going to try one more thing, maybe I'll be lucky. I may just switch to ER collets for all these tools. I'd rather wreck the collet than have to throw away the whole holder..

 

[Tim in Indiana]

Man are you right on the money. 2 of the holders which I'm attempting to replace the tools right now will not let go of the tool. At first I thought it was because the tool had been in them so long but based on what you said, I do now think it's the crash that set the tool instead. Not sure I can save them but I'm going to try one more thing, maybe I'll be lucky. I may just switch to ER collets for all these tools. I'd rather wreck the collet than have to throw away the whole holder..

When I have crashed and stuck set screw type end mill holders they usually stick well. I've used heat to expand the holder and give a little relief on the set screw. That little bit of expansion is just enough.

I have a friend that uses shrink fit tooling and his induction heater works well to quickly heat a stuck end mill holder.

 

[lilscorpion]

Only person that does not make any mistakes is the person who doesn't make anything.

In my tenure of doing fabrication work I cannot count the number of blown bottom dies because of a typo. Broken End Mills, Blown Lenses on Lasers, nicked shear blades...recognize the mistake, implement "something" to avoid it happening again, learn from it and move on. As the guy that ends up paying for it "choice words" are saved for willful intent to cause harm when you know better.

This week one of our truck drivers stopped the forklift halfway out of the dock truck and hit the garage door down button thinking he could back the rest of the way out before the door would get to the forklift. Guess what...$800-900 later and on Tuesday or Wednesday we will have a new lower panel. This one deserves a few "choice words".

Wednesday one of the guys crashed one of the Turrets. He gave me his story of how it happened and I have my thoughts on what really happened based on a CYA statement he made. We will sort that out this morning. All I ask is tell me the truth so we don't chase a problem that does not exist or call /fly technicians in to chase a problem that does not exist.

Between Maintenance, a few of the Fab guys in the Press Brakes and a few others pitching in to help we were able to straighten out the parts and bolt the machine back together again. Total lost hours I am going to estimate 18-20 not including the machine downtime and opportunity cost of those involved doing nonproductive work.

Unless I am 100% correct in my assumption of what really happened I will not use a "few choice" words. I will tell the operator my thoughts and I'll read his reaction and we will go from there.



Keep up the great work Matt!!!

Holy crash batman! That picture makes me cringe and my wallet ached a little.

You're totally right, these little (or big) learning moments are part of the gig. Man they hurt tho and a single moment, that takes less than a fraction of a second to play out hurts in multiple ways - watching the train wreck, the sounds, the frantic reaction thinking you can stop or reverse it, and then the aftermath (cost + blood leaving your face + putting humpty back together again).

The forklift/garage door moment - those kill me. Such a different reaction generated than a (human) CNC programming error. Completely unnecessary and maybe even qualify for a Level 1 Darwin award.

I hate situations where truth comes into question (like the Turret situation). The whole outcome is the outcome, can't change it because it's behind us. But when dumba$$ comes into play, it seems to make it so much worse. Reading a story like that reminds me of parenting moments. A year ago my son re-ends a car at a light. It was a right turn situation where the car ahead of him started to go then stopped abruptly. My son saw him go but didn't see the stop...boom. My son, when telling me what happened, said the jeep got bumpsteer and he couldn't stop. I'm sure your moment with the Turret operator and my moment with my son generated the same immediate feeling of disappointment.

that press brake pic...again, yowezers.

 

[lilscorpion]

When I have crashed and stuck set screw type end mill holders they usually stick well. I've used heat to expand the holder and give a little relief on the set screw. That little bit of expansion is just enough.

I have a friend that uses shrink fit tooling and his induction heater works well to quickly heat a stuck end mill holder.

I'll try some heat. Really good idea. I may only need a tho or so.

 

[Tim in Indiana]

I'll try some heat. Really good idea. I may only need a tho or so.

Good luck.
With the set screw holders if the tool turns slightly it cams the set screw so tight you can't get it loose. I've had to drill the set screw out with carbide to release the broken tool.

 

[lilscorpion]

Post by Pat/ https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/members/4-fn-27.280533/ recently got me kicking around a few ideas for building my own organizer.

The GDS Skunkworks, 4 FN 27's Shop Projects

Looks like your new snow machine trailer came with a decent audio system as I see a subwoofer. Critical piece of gear to me! :rocker:

www.garagejournal.com

I don't have near as many extensions to organize as Pat but I do have a few so I started by laying them out on the bench to see how I could nest them together. I do have plans to get a few new chrome extensions but I can get same sizes so whatever I build works.



Drawer they're going into is about 20 1/2" so This layout should do well and leave me enough room to add a 1" organizer for the stubbies, adapters, and universal joints.



I purchased some aluminum u-channel which I think will work to locate the extensions in the tray. Here's the test piece. Don't like how little material there is on either side and in the middle. Won't be very durable.



Concept should work though. Now I can visualize it. Just need to play with it a bit...

 

[4 FN 27]

Drawer they're going into is about 20 1/2" so This layout should do well and leave me enough room to add a 1" organizer for the stubbies, adapters, and universal joints.

Matt that should work just perfect!!!

Looking forward to seeing the final product.

 

[lilscorpion]

Matt that should work just perfect!!!

Looking forward to seeing the final product.

Thanks Pat! I'm really enjoying this build project. Thanks for the inspiration.

I did get a little more done today, tried to go inside but I kept thinking about the next step. On of my organizational goals always is to maximize drawer space because all space is critical when you have a shop that's too small for your stuff. For these extension holders, I considered increasing the space between so I could have more meat to the holder but I really want the width of a 2 extension rail to be no wider than 2". Adding any more meat would cause them to be wider but it occurred to me that I could alternate direction and nest them a little closer together AND instead of having to mess with making 2 different parts, now I'd only need twice as many of just this single part. After some program adjustments, I made a couple test pieces. Finish on them looks super cool with the subtle radii added in the corners too.



This worked out much better. There's plenty of room between the extensions and the fit nicely nested in the cradles. One thing I'll have to play with is how much additional spacing I'll need to add to the extension length for the cradle. One consequence of using the extruded C's is that the width of the 2 legs is 1/2" which just barely supports the wobbly end extensions. It works but I can't leave too much slop in the fitment or the extension will fall in the groove on the socket end.



One down side of using this alternate approach is that the slots aren't aligned anymore so the extensions are canted a little bit. I almost didn't even notice it because all of my mock ups were done with the longest extensions which greatly reduces the lean. It's the most pronounced on the 3" ones. The up side is it does give more finger access to the extensions in various spots. Think I'll run with it. At this point I could just screw them into the bottoms of my wood drawers but I think I'll go all the way and attach them to a baseplate. More to come.

 

[4 FN 27]

Thanks Pat! I'm really enjoying this build project. Thanks for the inspiration.

I did get a little more done today, tried to go inside but I kept thinking about the next step. On of my organizational goals always is to maximize drawer space because all space is critical when you have a shop that's too small for your stuff. For these extension holders, I considered increasing the space between so I could have more meat to the holder but I really want the width of a 2 extension rail to be no wider than 2". Adding any more meat would cause them to be wider but it occurred to me that I could alternate direction and nest them a little closer together AND instead of having to mess with making 2 different parts, now I'd only need twice as many of just this single part. After some program adjustments, I made a couple test pieces. Finish on them looks super cool with the subtle radii added in the corners too.

Smart thinking Matt. Common symmetrical parts is the way to go.

Don't worry about the "meat" in between. Basically a spacer without any structural support. Unless you are really slamming your drawers you can get by with .125 in between unless you have pickle fingers.

This worked out much better. There's plenty of room between the extensions and the fit nicely nested in the cradles. One thing I'll have to play with is how much additional spacing I'll need to add to the extension length for the cradle. One consequence of using the extruded C's is that the width of the 2 legs is 1/2" which just barely supports the wobbly end extensions. It works but I can't leave too much slop in the fitment or the extension will fall in the groove on the socket end.

Make a support for that is inboard of the wobble end to hold the extension up and then make an end piece to keep it from shifting left to right. A little more work but it will fully support the wobble extension and keep it located.

One down side of using this alternate approach is that the slots aren't aligned anymore so the extensions are canted a little bit. I almost didn't even notice it because all of my mock ups were done with the longest extensions which greatly reduces the lean. It's the most pronounced on the 3" ones. The up side is it does give more finger access to the extensions in various spots. Think I'll run with it. At this point I could just screw them into the bottoms of my wood drawers but I think I'll go all the way and attach them to a baseplate. More to come.

Alignment is all in the geometry. if you work off the center of the extrusion length and offset from that point in both directions it should work out that they are aligned. I like the base plate idea. It is adaptable to more solutions as you collection of extensions grow...

Nice work!!!

 

[lilscorpion]

Smart thinking Matt. Common symmetrical parts is the way to go.

Don't worry about the "meat" in between. Basically a spacer without any structural support. Unless you are really slamming your drawers you can get by with .125 in between unless you have pickle fingers.

The meat does matter a bit in machining. If it gets too thin then the material can't handle the force of the end mill on the material. I can reduce the chip load quite a bit I suppose.

Make a support for that is inboard of the wobble end to hold the extension up and then make an end piece to keep it from shifting left to right. A little more work but it will fully support the wobble extension and keep it located.

Yeah, agreed. I ran out of material today and got some more on order. When it comes in, I'll make a batch of supports.

Alignment is all in the geometry. if you work off the center of the extrusion length and offset from that point in both directions it should work out that they are aligned. I like the base plate idea. It is adaptable to more solutions as you collection of extensions grow...

I can get it aligned but it'll take more material because the relieve half circles are different diameters. Flipping the same profile causes the misalignment. If I made the support about .400 wider overall, they'd be aligned. Since I don't want to grow the base-plate, there's no way to do it.

 

[LeonardY]

You ain't lived until you've crashed a CNC.

Well then, I had a full life.

All your work is impressive.

 

[lilscorpion]

Went into production mode today and made about 30 of the 3/8" extension supports.



Much easier to visual now. Here's another design choice. The extrusion is just tall enough such that another extension could fit below if I made some squatty holders.



After some finishing work, I had more than enough for building the racks I need.



time to work out the base plate. I started with making a single story board of sorts to test all of the extension lengths and play with the slop offset. WIth this little fixture, I'll now be able to test fit a new extension so I can figure out exactly what adjustment if any I need to account for before making the holder. In this fixture is 3, 5, 6 and 10".



Machined all of the tray base blanks facing both ends.






Then figured out the layouts for all of the racks. Once I had the layouts, I just measured the offsets. Since extensions come in 1" increments (or their metric equivalent), the pattern proved itself to be what I'd expected. Measuring never hurts tho.



Once I had all the offsets, a slight tweak to the program and I was ready to drill the blanks.



A quick tap, tap, tap-a-roo and then assembly can start.



Finished assembly.

 

[lilscorpion]

Well then, I had a full life.

All your work is impressive.

Thanks. There are days I swear I'm living more than one life at a time.

 

[Cruzan80]

Just two points...

1) In the "done" pictures (first two), there are still what look like locking extensions behind them. Can't fit them in the drawer, or a different plan for those?

2) Not sure what you are calling "finished"... I see bare metal, not shiny powdercoated colors...

 

[lilscorpion]

10 picture limit. LOL



Here's what they'll look like in the drawer. Can't decide yet if I can them front to back or side to side.



I'm out of material so I'll have to start in on the 1/4" trays later. For now I'll keep the second set of organizers in this drawer until I coat them.



I did leave 1" on the width of the drawer on the chance that I run the trays side to side so I can add an adapter organizer. Initially I had planned on something that sits flush but found that a 1x1 extrusion elevates them perfectly so they're really easy to grab with my thumb and forefinger.



That's a wrap (for now). Thanks for following along.

 

[lilscorpion]

Just two points...

1) In the "done" pictures (first two), there are still what look like locking extensions behind them. Can't fit them in the drawer, or a different plan for those?

2) Not sure what you are calling "finished"... I see bare metal, not shiny powdercoated colors...

Dang, I said done? I think I meant done for the day. The other extensions are 1/4". I'll build racks specificially for my 1/4" stuff too but I ran out of material (I never calculate correctly). I just ordered more so it'll be a week or so before I can get back after it.

Finished...did I say that too?!?!? I must be losing it. I'm gonna powder coat them (of course). Just not until I get all of the racks done. Efficiency of scale thing...all of the bases will be the same gun metal grey color with the cradles being color coded for the different sizes (ratchet size).

 

[slodat]

Exceptional work, Matt!

 

[lilscorpion]

Exceptional work, Matt!

Thank you sir!

 

[zmotorsports]

Excellent work Matt. Those look amazing.

 

[lilscorpion]

UPS landed the few sets I needed. Now the racks are read for the new box…same setup for both boxes. Keep everything in the same place I’ll always be able to find it (I hope)

 

[lilscorpion]

Dang it, just realized I posted the extension project in the wrong of my two threads...shoulda been in the Tooling (Re)Organization one. Oh well...

Launching into a new project, more out of necessity than any other reason. Any time I machine parts, I get chips everywhere and they always make it into the house. Wife don't like that much so I need to find a way to reduce how they get around the shop. I used to use a shop vac to collect the chips as I machine but the vac gave up the ghost a ways back and the new one doesn't work as well. Figured I need to up my game on the mill and build a chip/coolant guard. Something more or less like this but with taller walls.



If I had a sheet metal brake and a plasma table this would be a 2 hour project. Since I don't, I'll use what I got. I do want it to be removable and in pieces that allow me to make taller and/or shorter walls should I find out that my initial plan won't work. My first thought is to build a pan of sorts using aluminum angle and then run verticals off of the corners. I'll need a base/bottom for the assembly and I do want it to close off the T-Slots which I never use with hold-downs but really hate cleaning. They won't be missed.



I'll need a cover plate that goes between the two vises. Once I got the vise foot profile right, it was easy to cut a filler that's just wide enough.



The filler test fit well. Overhangs the front and rear of the table by 1".



Next is to machine a cover plate for the left and right of the vise pair. No brains needed for this activity, it's the same profile with the same offset. Just needed to get the overall length right which was only larger on the left by 1".

 

[lilscorpion]

with all of the cover plates in place



And counter sunk some holes which I'll use to retain the table covers to the table itself.



The bottom has to sit flush with the table because it has to go below the vises. Here's the piece mocked up and gives a better idea of how it'll look (or kinda) when the bottom is fully assembled.

 

[LeonardY]

Any time I machine parts, I get chips everywhere and they always make it into the house. Wife don't like that much so I need to find a way to reduce how they get around the shop.

I feel your pain. I have the same problem and a similar solution. I have two bolts in the front and the rest is held in place with rare earth magnets. I also have a clear piece of door strip vinyl in the front to deflect the chips into the pan. I have additional side walls that I attach with magnets if I need. I've pretty much eliminated the bulk of it.



I recommend getting a rubber finger door mat. Got mine at Costco. I put mine at the entry from the garage to the house. It grabs the loose chips and dust off your shoes. Another thing I do is never go into the house with my shoes on.



I use my shop vac for chip cleanup. I use a cyclone collector to capture all the aluminum. It's really effective. I don't even worry about sucking up coolant.