#FabSpace

[lilscorpion]

What kind of supporting hardware is required to do the 8spd swap?

It’s maybe more costly than a complicated conversion - you need an 8-speed that bolted up originally to a 3.6L Pentastar motor. Either an 845RE/8HP45 (found in V6 Dodge 4x4 pickups pre 2019) or the newer version, the 850RE (2019 or newer Jeep Wrangler LJ or the truck JT).



The Jeeps have a stand alone controller from the factory so swap in a newer controller programmed to match the donor vehicle. The trans is 2” longer than the Nag1 so the mount will need to more rearward ~2” which should be an easy fab on a factory x member. Need to adapt the wiring harness to work with the different speed sensors and run a challenger shifter.



The speed sensors are maybe the biggest difference and benefit between the 850RE and the Nag1. The Nag1 uses the speed sensors at the wheels which causes some problems with after market axles like mine (I have Dynatracs) because the mounting brackets they use must not have the same spacing as the factory brackets to the tone rings. Every so often the trans in mine gets a goofy read and it goes into limp mode and I guess this isn’t uncommon. The 850RE doesn’t need the wheel speed sensors because it has speed sensors on the front and rear of the trans itself instead. I suspect the wiring harness just relocated the sensor plug pigtails.

There’s 2 companies that make a kit now:

Dakota Customs: https://www.dakota-customs.com/shop/jk8speed - $4k you get everything you need but the trans and all new parts: new shifter, shifter mounting plate, wiring harness, trans relo bracket, new controller/trans ecm programmed for the trans you get, and an ecm relo bracket.

Dan at Dakota customs used to own Burnsville Off-road in Minnasota who was popular in the 4x4 rags at the time that I was in the business. He was the creator of some of the early cool hybrid conversions like this TJ that he put a viper motor in - https://www.off-road.com/jeep/tech/the-ultimate-wrangler-18472.html?printable and manufactured of the earlier hemi swap kits for Jeeps. Dan knows his ****. His business was a body shop and fab shop so he has the breath of knowledge and experience to leave me confident in his kit.

The other company is Jeep Speed Shop - https://jeepspeedshop.com/8-speed-swap/. This smaller new-comer (best I can tell) has bees doing a few 8-speed conversions for customers in their local market. They claim to have a kit but either lack maturity as a business or just aren’t a very good one. Though I had a good call with the owner, he blew me off on a request to follow the call with an email containing documentation on his product and completely ignored on 3 follow-up attempts.

Jeep Speeds kit is only some of what you need and I suspect really just easy money - the ecm and the wiring harness for $1500. You source the shifter, figure out the ECM relocation and mounting, and you figure out the trans relo. Since the owner never did send me info, I can’t really confirm how incomplete the kit is or isn’t. My biggest concern is support and having to source and fab everything else.

 

[lilscorpion]

I missed an important and non-trivial element of the conversion - the JK transfer case will not bolt up either transmission (845RE nor the 85RE). I have to run a tcase out of the donor Dodge Ram, the JL/JT, or an atlas.



I can use the 4:1 rubicon case ($1500 - $2k) or the standard Jeep case ($500 - $1k). The truck case would be like the standard a usually 2.72:1 ($250 $500). The atlas comes in many configurations (3.0, 3.8, 4.0:1) but is crazy expensive ($4500) and 14 week lead time.



So, in summary:

850RE - $1k - $1500
TCase - $1000 - $4k
Conversion Kit from Dakota customs - $4k
Or source the parts yourself and make a wiring harness and various brackets - $1k

You could do it for as cheap as $3k I think with some work and thinking of as much as $9500 for the easiest kit and the baddest *** t-case..

 

[lilscorpion]

Matt, that 8-speed trans will be a game changer…the 4.88's may not be enough however, with you being in Colorado. I wouldn't be surprised if you end up with 5.13's eventually but if your Jeep is light enough you may be able to get away with the 4.88:1 ratio. I'll anxiously be awaiting your review.

I’m hoping the 4.88’s will be good enough but now you have me feeling less confident. In my experience with the Nag1 (I burned up the factory one) and the factory 3.6 wasn’t enough to turn 37’s on the freeway and I spent too much time shifted down (in huger RPM) to maintain speed. A beefier Nag1 seemed to handle it but didn’t really solve the problem. The Magnuson Super Charger was to solve the power problem and I was hoping the lower first gear and tighter gear ratios would be the final ingredient to getting moving and fighting less to maintain speed. itll still have to shift down just but in smaller increments keeping the motor in the power band. was hoping anyway.

 

[zmotorsports]

Looks like you've done your homework Matt. Looking forward to the installation. As for cost, that's quickly approaching what I was into my 6.2 liter LS and 6L80 swap. Between the new transmission and the forced induction you should have a new Jeep under you.

 

[zmotorsports]

I’m hoping the 4.88’s will be good enough but now you have me feeling less confident. In my experience with the Nag1 (I burned up the factory one) and the factory 3.6 wasn’t enough to turn 37’s on the freeway and I spent too much time shifted down (in huger RPM) to maintain speed. A beefier Nag1 seemed to handle it but didn’t really solve the problem. The Magnuson Super Charger was to solve the power problem and I was hoping the lower first gear and tighter gear ratios would be the final ingredient to getting moving and fighting less to maintain speed (shifting down still less, just having shorter gears so the jump down is less to keep me in the power band. was hoping anyway.

I think off the line/bottom end you may be on the edge but I worry that you'll be in 7th gear with the 40's and 4.88's on the highway at speed. I could be way off target though so you'll have to report back on it after you get her up and running. Now I'm curious.....

 

[lilscorpion]

Looks like you've done your homework Matt. Looking forward to the installation. As for cost, that's quickly approaching what I was into my 6.2 liter LS and 6L80 swap. Between the new transmission and the forced induction you should have a new Jeep under you.

I know. When I decided to do the SC, the 8-Soeed swap wasn’t a thing yet so I couldn’t factor it into the equation. Had it been, I’d be doing an LS swap no question. So, in this regard, I’m bummed however there is now way I could have known…no different than I could have known Jeep would release a JL right after doing the last rebuild on my JK nor a V8 version of the JL after purchasing the super charger. All I can do is make the best decision in the moment based on the data I had at that time.

And that’s how a Jeep built over time gets to be so damn expensive.

 

[zmotorsports]

I know. When I decided to do the SC, the 8-Soeed swap wasn’t a thing yet so I couldn’t factor it into the equation. Had it been, I’d be doing an LS swap no question. So, in this regard, I’m bummed however there is now way I could have known…no different than I could have known Jeep would release a JL right after doing the last rebuild on my JK nor a V8 version of the JL after purchasing the super charger. All I can do is make the best decision in the moment based on the data I had at that time.

And that’s how a Jeep built over time gets to be so damn expensive.

Trust me, I COMPLETELY understand Matt. I think you made the right call. I'm not all that impressed with the JL platform and I think the 392 JL's are way overpriced for what they are. Personally, I think the JK is a better platform than the JL, which I'm sure I will catch slack for saying.

And I agree, real Jeeps are built, not bought.

 

[lilscorpion]

Trust me, I COMPLETELY understand Matt. I think you made the right call. I'm not all that impressed with the JL platform and I think the 392 JL's are way overpriced for what they are. Personally, I think the JK is a better platform than the JL, which I'm sure I will catch slack for saying.

And I agree, real Jeeps are built, not bought.

My son read this over my shoulder and said "Dad, you're jeep will be 50 state carb compliant and it can be returned to stock in a couple weekends if you wanted to... "

I guess I forgot a few of the reasons why I went the way I did. Smart kid.

 

[lilscorpion]

Got the parts I needed to tackle the wiring redo. One thing I d like to do is move most of the cables (and auxiliary wires to below the battery tray. The inner fenders are so easy to remove it seemed like a nice place to hide my mess and gain access as needed.



There was barely enough wire to make it to the top posts but there’s more than enough to make it below the batteries.



What I’ve decided to do is attach two bus bars to the bottom of the tray. Since I can’t run bolts through the tray (the bolt heads would damage the bottom of the batteries) I decided I needed to make some mounting plates so I found some 3” wide aluminum and cut of two 8” lengths.



Though the cold cut saw is faster, the bandsaw is less setup for just a few cuts.



From there I use the mill to drill the mounting holes for the two buss bars.



Two bolts will be welded to the bottom of the tray so the bus bars can mount like this.



With the ground bus here.



With the location figured out, I welded on the studs and began prepping for powder coat. Bus bar brackets were easy.



The battery hood down ain’t exactly simple.



Took a few minutes to disassemble.

 

[lilscorpion]

Quick soak in the chemical, a scuff in the sand blaster, and a new coat of powder.



Then back together it goes.



Next the battery tray itself. It’s too big for the chemical bucket and just barely smaller enough to fit in the sand blast cabinet so sand blast it is. Man, it felt like it took all day to a remove the previous coating. It took 3 hours!! it’s big, here’s how tight it was in the oven.



When I finally got done, I was beat but the work yielded fantastic results.

 

[zmotorsports]

That is looking awesome Matt.

 

[lilscorpion]

Had a little time tonight and since I’m waiting on parts, I figured I’d fab up the air intake out of some 3” mandrel bent aluminum tube. Fairly simple fab and it came together quickly. I won’t fully weld it until I can get the battery tray back in. Of course it’ll be white. . Good progress for a short evening.

 

[rattle_snake]

Getting closer! I can hear motor sounds.

 

[MrPink]

Nice work!

 

[Southern83]

Looking good! I might have missed it but what kinda HP gains are you expecting?

 

[lilscorpion]

Getting closer! I can hear motor sounds.

Me too but I think what you’re hearing is my wife tapping her foot impatiently waiting for me to finish the trim in the kitchen which won’t start until the SC is done.

Nice work!

Thank you!

Looking good! I might have missed it but what kinda HP gains are you expecting?

Been a while since I looked at the stats. Think Advertised is about 100hp with the supplied tune. I’ve heard of (YouTube) dyno numbers of 345 to the rear wheel and 440-ish to the crank.

 

[Southern83]

That's a nice bump in power. I'm a little envious. My inline gets the job done but power isn't its strong point.

 

[lilscorpion]

That's a nice bump in power. I'm a little envious. My inline gets the job done but power isn't its strong point.

We turbo’d our 4.0L (2006 LJ) and doubled its power. 275hp at the crank, 190HP to the rear wheels. It’s by no means a power house but it does turn the 40’s now good enough. Would wake up a jeep with smaller tires nicely.

 

[gearhead1960]

It's not surprising what a little HP bump will do to the drivability of any vehicle. I have a 2017 Mini Clubman S ALL4 which rates at around 200HP factory. I had the ECM flashed to increase HP to 300HP and what a big difference that made. It makes getting into arrest me speeds exceedingly easy....

 

[rattle_snake]

Yes, more power is always better. As are bigger tires. Jeep is heading in the right direction!

 

[lilscorpion]

8-speed 850RE no/low miles for me!

 

[Strouty]

My buddy and I were discussing using an 8 speed in one of my Burbs, the 6.5 diesels are true fly by wire, so even though they are older, they should work well with any fancy pants electronic transmission. He got me curious for sure. Now I get to see how your swap goes.

 

[MrPink]

It's not surprising what a little HP bump will do to the drivability of any vehicle. I have a 2017 Mini Clubman S ALL4 which rates at around 200HP factory. I had the ECM flashed to increase HP to 300HP and what a big difference that made. It makes getting into arrest me speeds exceedingly easy....

My 09 clubman was similar, JCW turbo, bigger downpipe, Intake, Injectors, dyno tune, and more. It went from ~200ish to ~400ish at the crank, it was quite the fun car. I believe the fastest I clocked was 140mph, and it still wanted to go.

 

[lilscorpion]

I figured out how to make wiring talk WAY longer, color matched cable clamps. . Yet so damn flavorful.

 

[rattle_snake]

One-upper...

Too cool man! you have OCD on things I haven't even considered.

 

[lilscorpion]

One-upper...

Too cool man! you have OCD on things I haven't even considered.

Funny part is 90% of what ever types like us come up with will be noticed by maybe .02% of others no matter how close and no matter how long they look…

 

[lilscorpion]

Today I tackled the mounting bracket for the aux fuse bus/block which will be mounted on the drivers side opposite to the battery. This will eliminate the need to run all of the accessories along the firewall and behind the super charger. It will also greatly reduce the length of those wires and hopefully leave the engine bay looking (more) neat and tidy as well.

On challenge I have is I have to work around an air compressor (needed to lock the differential lockers) that mounts above the brake booster and master cylinder.



The bracket has a fender support which happens to be one of two I can use.



I have this other bracket I purchased years ago in hopes of mounting an dual compressor air compressor ahead of the master cylinder. I was unable to use it because it wasn’t compatible with the JK8 master cylinder and booster combo I’m running. It uses both of the fender support holes. I could use this as the foundation for the fuse box if I can figure out how to make it work.



I think the two brackets could fit together if I remove the leg of the single compressor bracket and attach it to the two legged one.



After stripping the powder coating, I nested the two together to see what other modifications I’ll need to make.



Needed to trim a little where the two brackets intersect so they line up correctly.



The leg on the left interferes with the intercooler return hose so it’s gotta go.



That’s better.

 

[lilscorpion]

Next I need to redrill the mounting holes on the side opposite the fender.



After adding some riv-nuts, I test fit everything together again. Fits nicely.



The dual compressor bracket has a support that didn’t line up for $hit so I had to move over about .300”. Really love the precision of a TIG and being able to add some simple tacos without the sparks of the MIG.




Whipped up a quick mounting plate out of some 1/8” 6061



This fuse block gives really easy access to the fuses and I should be able to hide the wires under the mounting bracket too. Here’s a side view of how it will look mounted.



I wish I’d gotten a little further. I need to add radii to the corners and do a little trimming for length but it’s really close.



Disassembled everything and prepped the brackets for color tomorrow morning. For now, playoff hockey!

 

[lilscorpion]

Once I got my **** out of bed I got the parts coated and in the oven.



Finalized the mounting of the intercooler hose and the few wires that will go behind the intercooler and decomposed the multitude of looms and combined them into one. Then got the air compressor and brackets installed.



Spun a few spacers on the lathe so the fuse box will sit perfectly level with the other brackets.



Got a few of the wires shortened, terminated into lugs, and bolted into the fuse box.



Now all that’s left is adding the relays.

 

[lilscorpion]

Continued on the Jeeps wiring today. Got the battery tray out and ready for install. Micro fenders leave so much tire hanging out I’ve been using it as a work surface.



After some fussing, I got the tray in and the fuse box plugged in and clipped into the tray.


I got after pre-wiring the new power bus bars. This is the part of wiring I like.



With the battery hold down and relays. Previously I had to use hand wrenches and contort if I wanted to disconnect the rear posts. With the wires relocated I can now get to every single nut with my 1/4” air ratchet.



From there I dove into the various wiring harnesses and Deutsch connectors I had hacked together over the years. My favorite thing about these connectors is you can disassemble them and reuse them with nothing more than new pins and they’re as good as new.



I’m kinda stuck until I get the relays I ordered so I switched to the cold air intake and got it welded up and coated. Looks sick. Good to get a little practice at TIG’in aluminum too.



I’m so dang close. Should be able to fire it tomorrow.



Also thought I’d try to coat the hose clamps and see how they look white.



I really like it. Looks better than the shinny stainless look.



That’s where I leave off until tomorrow.

 

[gearhead1960]

Matt, Impressive work. Nothing speaks to us **** people like a clean organized engine bay!

 

[lilscorpion]

Matt, Impressive work. Nothing speaks to us **** people like a clean organized engine bay!

Thanks! It’s easy to over rotate tho too. I’ve spent nearly more time cleaning up the wiring as installing the supercharger…

 

[zmotorsports]

Bad *** work Matt. Looks very clean and custom.

 

[csp]

Good stuff as usual Matt.

 

[lilscorpion]

Bad *** work Matt. Looks very clean and custom.

Good stuff as usual Matt.

Thanks guys, much appreciated.

Spent a little more time today working on the wiring harness in prep for the relays getting here. Wiring takes WAY TOO LONG for my taste. Unfortunately my previous wiring deficiencies resulted in messed up harnesses which now need to be lengthened so out came the soldering kit.



Here’s a pro-tip for **** soldering wires. Get a set of sponge hemostats.



They’re used in ER’s to hold sponges during medical procedures (inside you where you don’t want the Dr. to let go of the sponge). The tips look like this….



After stripping the ends, I solder the tips.



Then lay them over the top of each other in the window of the sponge hemostats and clamp them.



Now they can easily be soldered together and they won’t move at all. Then flip them over and solder the other side without removing the clamp.



No 3rd hands, no using you’re elbows…no fussing’.



Newly fixed harness.



Ready for install…

 

[Horror Business]

Great work! I enjoy following your progress on your Jeep, and previously, on your son’s Jeep. Is his Jeep still running well?

 

[lilscorpion]

Great work! I enjoy following your progress on your Jeep, and previously, on your son’s Jeep. Is his Jeep still running well?

Thanks for following along! Andrew’s Jeep is running well. We’ve made a few adjustments since it was dyno’d.

We realized that when it was tuned they failed to set the AC idle-up with the tune so, when the AC was on, the Jeep would rough idle and almost die. Easy tweak to the tune we were able to handle ourselves.

we’ve upsized the intercooler radiator. Even with this larger one we can see a significant reduction in power as the the temp of the cooler
gets up to running temp. Makes sense that the engine would run better when it’s cold but it really runs much better. Better enough we’re going to look for a full width cooler.

Trans heats up if we’re constantly in the boost/under load for prolonged pushes. We think it’s because we have the radiator and trans cooler running in series and the added engine temp plus the trans taking a little extra heat it just heats a little too much. As soon as I lift my foot the temp drops within 10-ish seconds. We need to run the cooler independent before we’ll know for sure.

We’re probably going to powder coat his intercooler and charge pipes. We’ve debated colors a time or two. He’s thinking yellow, I’m leaning towards all black. He gets the final vote.

We’ll need to redo the wiring in the LJ too. It’s a damn **** show. Andrew raced to get things together before the dyno and hasn’t touched it since. It looks like a 16 year old did it.

 

[Clemson13]

Wring takes WAY TOO LONG for my taste. Unfortunately my previous wiring deficiencies resulted in messed up harnesses which now need to be lengthened so out came the soldering kit.



Here’s a pro-tip for **** soldering wires. Get a set of sponge hemostats.



They’re used in ER’s to hold sponges during medical procedures (inside you where you don’t want the Dr. to let go of the sponge). The tips look like this….



After stripping the ends, I solder the tips.



Then lay them over the top of each other in the window of the sponge hemostats and clamp them.



Now they can easily be soldered together and they won’t move at all. Then flip them over and solder the other side without removing the clamp.



No 3rd hands, no using you’re elbows…no fussing’.

Yup.... Just ordered a pair. I have a bunch of wiring coming up on my truck and that looks like a great solution! I had a wiring harness clip fail and lower the transfer case connector down into the drive shaft ujoint where it was obliterated in short order. Extend the wires, pin, get into a connector is the first project. 2nd will be additional lighting on the truck.

So what do you use for the Deutsch connector pin crimper? I need to buy a bunch of it as I have never worked on the electrics before. I was thinking
Crimper:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09B6446WV/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Deutsch Knock Off Connectors

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B083FR9VMR/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[slodat]

That crimper is less than half what I paid for the real deal Deutsch crimper.

 

[lilscorpion]

Yup.... Just ordered a pair. I have a bunch of wiring coming up on my truck and that looks like a great solution! I had a wiring harness clip fail and lower the transfer case connector down into the drive shaft ujoint where it was obliterated in short order. Extend the wires, pin, get into a connector is the first project. 2nd will be additional lighting on the truck.

So what do you use for the Deutsch connector pin crimper? I need to buy a bunch of it as I have never worked on the electrics before. I was thinking
Crimper:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09B6446WV/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Deutsch Knock Off Connectors

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B083FR9VMR/?tag=atomicindus08-20

I purchased the name brand unit like @slodat. Ideas some reviews that the knock offs aren’t as good at consistently making quality crimps and I didn’t feel like finding out the same thing for myself so I didn’t risk it. I’ve been very content with the purchase. Works every time.

I use the solid pins btw. Find them to be super durable and haven’t had any issues.