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Failed junk from China

mowkep

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I have a Snap On ratchet with peeling chrome. Granted it's old, but it started peeling 25 years ago. Sub-par? Not as far as I am concerned. It's been a good tool otherwise.

Is it possible, that in the real world, this just happens sometimes, when companies make products by the millions?

Chrome plating is not a fool-proof process anyway.

Sorry but I don't consider a part with peeling chrome..."up to par". And yes it does happen but that doesn't make it acceptable. Pulling slivers of chrome out of my fingers is not what the manufacturer intended. Our shop had to make a long aluminum tube with intricate machining on it. After machining, it had to be hard chromed and then ground to size. First time through the plating was bad and started to peel at grinding. It had to be stripped and rechromed and reground.
 
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zendriver

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Sorry but I don't consider a part with peeling chrome..."up to par". And yes it does happen but that doesn't make it acceptable. Pulling slivers of chrome out of my fingers is not what the manufacturer intended. Our shop had to make a long aluminum tube with intricate machining on it. After machining, it had to be hard chromed and then ground to size. First time through the plating was bad and started to peel at grinding. It had to be stripped and rechromed and reground.

Fair enough, but these companies probably make thousands of hand tools, each shift.

It appears plating is not an easy science, as you have discovered, certainly mass produced items are not always inspected as closely.

It's acceptable, if one chooses it to be, unless of course, requirements state otherwise.
 
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reader2580

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As a follow-up to this whole thread I returned the breaker bar to Harbor Freight. I couldn't get the bolts loose with it anyhow and I got chrome slivers in my fingers. If I buy another it will probably be SK. I ended up using my cordless impact to get the bolts loose, but it was a pain getting the deck high enough to use the impact.

I still have the trolley jack, but it leaks down so bad it is basically unusable. I need to take it back to Menards when I remember. I realized that the ramps I have for my car will also work for my mower. My mower drive wheels are in the front and I just put the ramps behind the wheels and back up. Much easier and safer than using a jack.
 

catron44

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CT
As a follow-up to this whole thread I returned the breaker bar to Harbor Freight. I couldn't get the bolts loose with it anyhow and I got chrome slivers in my fingers. If I buy another it will probably be SK. I ended up using my cordless impact to get the bolts loose, but it was a pain getting the deck high enough to use the impact.

I still have the trolley jack, but it leaks down so bad it is basically unusable. I need to take it back to Menards when I remember. I realized that the ramps I have for my car will also work for my mower. My mower drive wheels are in the front and I just put the ramps behind the wheels and back up. Much easier and safer than using a jack.
As someone mentioned above, gearwrench makes a nice breaker bar. I know it's not USA made, but it was $15 for a 1/2 in, 24" long bar.

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catron44

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As someone mentioned above, gearwrench makes a nice breaker bar. I know it's not USA made, but it was $15 for a 1/2 in, 24" long bar.

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I should add, I got it at advance and had a coupon, I think it was $35 before the coupon.

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Mechanical Noise

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Edit: To me these 2 ton jacks are small, If the Op is referring to those tiny 2 ton jacks that sell for $30 to $40, can those jacks actually lift anything?

I don't know about the current Chinese small jacks, but I bought a $30 one 20 years which has held up well.

Mostly I've used it on compact cars but I have used on larger vehicles. I never really trusted it, always allowed for the possibility that it could drop unexpectedly but it never let me down. That is, until last year, when it only needed topping up with some fluid.

Considering how long these jacks have been on the market, a good percentage of them must be giving good service.
 

General Geoff

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Allentown, Pennsylvania
I had two Chinese made items fail on me this weekend.

The first was a Harbor Freight 25" breaker bar with chrome peeling off end of handle. (I didn't notice peeling chrome on end of handle when I bought it yesterday.) The chrome is peeling in large pieces and I ended up with a chrome sliver in my hand. I couldn't wait to order an American made one and I don't know any local retailers selling an American made one.

I have a Snap-On SL80A ratchet that has chipped chrome near the handle too. Sometimes it happens. I haven't gotten around to warrantying it because I got it from eBay (new, but not from Snap-On).
 

dnschmidt

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For all the people on here that HATE CHINESE JUNK is amazes me that whenever I go to my local Harbor Freight (about 1 mile from my house) I always have to get in a long line to check out. Considering the amount of buy American zealots on here I would expect the place to be empty which it NEVER is. How do you explain this conundrum? Well let me explain it for you: PEOPLE ARE CHEAP. If they can get something that works for cheap they will buy it. I keep one of these HF breaker bars in my car in case I ever have a flat. If it for some odd reason should have its chrome peel, but it still changed my tire when I needed it to, I'd simply take it back and get another one for free no questions asked. I think about 99/100 people see it this way. The other 1% rant about it on Garage Journal.
 

ganymede

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. ...PEOPLE ARE CHEAP. If they can get something that works for cheap they will buy it...

Agreed.
Then among them there's some that blame China for "not playing fair".
As though they're jerks for giving consumers the products and prices they demand .
 

dogdog

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I think we have been over this again and again.... here... here and here ..

LOL it's just that easy to blame the Chinese when things fail, .. .... cause they are not as crazy as the North Koreans :)

about 99% of the stuff that is made in China are all imported by American company. and about 1% of those tools that is sold here are actually Chinese stuff... maybe... haven't seen any Genuine Chinese tools yet, maybe in the 99cent store and ebay... my Cut50/tig/stick welder is a Chinese ****...but that is truly Chinese tool and it is ****... back in 2004-ish ..

But no body have the balls to admit hey it's the a for profit corporation cutting corners, moving productions to China, skipping QC, bypassing environmental issues in manufacturing, bypassing labor unions, you get the point... even if lets say my Channel Lock Universial sockts that is P.O.S. and it is made in China... about 99% of people here would just say it's the COO problem, nobody have the balls to say... Flocking Channel Lock. See the point... it's the mentality thing.
 
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reader2580

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But no body have the balls to admit hey it's the a for profit corporation cutting corners, moving productions to China, skipping QC, bypassing environmental issues in manufacturing, bypassing labor unions, you get the point... even if lets say my Channel Lock Universial sockts that is P.O.S. and it is made in China... about 99% of people here would just say it's the COO problem, nobody have the balls to say... Flocking Channel Lock. See the point... it's the mentality thing.

I bet if Channellock ordered the same product from an American manufacturer that the quality would be better. The cost would almost certainly be higher too. For commodity items like tools it is nearly impossible for an American manufacturer to match Chinese prices and still follow all American laws on labor, pollution, and the like.
 

jumbojak

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As a follow-up to this whole thread I returned the breaker bar to Harbor Freight. I couldn't get the bolts loose with it anyhow and I got chrome slivers in my fingers. If I buy another it will probably be SK. I ended up using my cordless impact to get the bolts loose, but it was a pain getting the deck high enough to use the impact.

I still have the trolley jack, but it leaks down so bad it is basically unusable. I need to take it back to Menards when I remember. I realized that the ramps I have for my car will also work for my mower. My mower drive wheels are in the front and I just put the ramps behind the wheels and back up. Much easier and safer than using a jack.

If you had that much trouble getting the impact under the mower why not just take the deck off? On mowers that haven't had the blades removed once you generally have to wail the piss out of a wrench to knock the blades off. Much easier with the deck off and leaned against something.
 

cherrybomb

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Oct 18, 2016
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Near Madison Wi.
I'm from the old school and look at my tools and ask myself do I have confidence that this tool will perform.IMO I have decided before I need to rush out to HF that I will study whats out there and then move on it .I have a Proto breaking bar,pretty confident it wii do its job.There are times to buy on price,and there are times to buy quality at a bit higher price.If you buy low and upgrade because your dissatisfied, the tool has cost you more.I try to pre plan purchases,more so as I get older,and listening here to other peoples problems.Good luck.
 
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reader2580

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If you had that much trouble getting the impact under the mower why not just take the deck off? On mowers that haven't had the blades removed once you generally have to wail the piss out of a wrench to knock the blades off. Much easier with the deck off and leaned against something.

The deck weighs 340 pounds so it is nearly impossible to take the deck off and flip it up without several helpers. It is way easier to just drive the mower up on a set of ramps instead. The deck hydraulically lifts, but not nearly enough to get my cordless impact under there.

I had no idea I would need a breaker bar or impact to get the blades off. That is why I didn't plan ahead and order a better breaker bar online. I changed blades daily on the same style of mower for six summers in hgih school and college. We only used a regular 1/2" ratchet so I didn't realize I would need an impact or a breaker bar.
 

jonesg

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northern Maine/
Sorry but I don't consider a part with peeling chrome..."up to par". And yes it does happen but that doesn't make it acceptable. Pulling slivers of chrome out of my fingers is not what the manufacturer intended. Our shop had to make a long aluminum tube with intricate machining on it. After machining, it had to be hard chromed and then ground to size. First time through the plating was bad and started to peel at grinding. It had to be stripped and rechromed and reground.

Chrome breaker bar ? ..
err just realized , I thought it was a pry bar.

Never mind.!
 

jonesg

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For commodity items like tools it is nearly impossible for an American manufacturer to match Chinese prices and still follow all American laws on labor, pollution, and the like.

At some point unions might realize how complicit they are in shipping jobs to China.
 

VintageOkieDriver

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Tulsa OK area
I am one of those who will not go back to harbor freight after I bought a wheeled tool box from them. More than one problem with it. Next set were from HD name brand, already assembled and works great.
 

CR888

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How many sane folks would put their money and balls on the chopping block by manufacturing tools in a first world country with high wage costs and unions constantly trying to kill your business. It's almost a hiddious propersition. Until a fair balance is negotiated, I cannot see businesses stopping the trend of offshore manufacturing in order to stay afloat. How would you go dealing with the labour unions in a modern first world country, they have killed even the idea of homeland made tools for the most part. I hate the whole situation but tool manufacturers are far from the first to blame for this ever expanding trend.
 
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reader2580

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I don't get all the people blaming unions for moving manufacturing to China. Union membership is way down and I bet the majority of remaining manufacturing in the USA is no longer union. Unions certainly hurt the steel and auto industries, but not that much auto manufacturing has moved to China.

My employer has a lot of unions, but I am not in a union. My employer blames the unions for their business decline, but they gave the same generous pay and benefits to non-union employees. They just can't take away pay or benefits from the unions until contracts expire. They can take away from non-union at any time.

If I ran a business I would do my best to keep jobs in the USA. A working American might buy what you are selling because they have a job. An American without a job won't buy anything and someone in China isn't buying either.
 
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Mechanical Noise

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How many sane folks would put their money and balls on the chopping block by manufacturing tools in a first world country with high wage costs and unions constantly trying to kill your business. It's almost a hiddious propersition. Until a fair balance is negotiated, I cannot see businesses stopping the trend of offshore manufacturing in order to stay afloat. How would you go dealing with the labour unions in a modern first world country, they have killed even the idea of homeland made tools for the most part. I hate the whole situation but tool manufacturers are far from the first to blame for this ever expanding trend.

http://labornotes.org/2009/11/10-week-chicago-teamsters-strike-wins-back-health-care
 

Mr_B

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If I ran a business I would do my best to keep jobs in the USA. A working American might buy what you are selling because they have a job. An American without a job won't buy anything and someone in China isn't buying either.

+1 on that
Problem is greed and companies trying make easy bucks with cheap china manufacturing .
Will end in tears if don't see sense and change as can't keep on outsourcing/buying from china and expect local economies survive.

Trick with cheaper tools is don't always buy cheapest of cheap, try buy when on sales so is truly better bargain, always always look the item over/test it when buying (self QC). With Pittsburgh stuff if you grab it at sales prices and self QC by picking out good one from what on display you get pretty good no hassle tool for cheap and a usable warranty too .
Jacks are ballache these days as some serious junk on market, always worth paying more for better quality or picking up older better quality used .
Basically bit of due diligence before parting with $ big or small will pay you back massively with smarter $ buys and no obvious short term defect/QC issues .
 

dogdog

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I bet if Channellock ordered the same product from an American manufacturer that the quality would be better. The cost would almost certainly be higher too. For commodity items like tools it is nearly impossible for an American manufacturer to match Chinese prices and still follow all American laws on labor, pollution, and the like.

I don't get all the people blaming unions for moving manufacturing to China. Union membership is way down and I bet the majority of remaining manufacturing in the USA is no longer union. Unions certainly hurt the steel and auto industries, but not that much auto manufacturing has moved to China.

My employer has a lot of unions, but I am not in a union. My employer blames the unions for their business decline, but they gave the same generous pay and benefits to non-union employees. They just can't take away pay or benefits from the unions until contracts expire. They can take away from non-union at any time.

If I ran a business I would do my best to keep jobs in the USA. A working American might buy what you are selling because they have a job. An American without a job won't buy anything and someone in China isn't buying either.

Here is the hypocrite thing.... if Channel lock manufactured that tool in China... did all those cut cost things. When the tool fail.... They have people like you to blame China but not channel lock who sold you the tool.... that is the exact point... Some of you have no balls to actually go down to the source of the problem. I won't say China is all good and saint... they are just capitalizing on the opportunity of the problems we have at home... and probably don't mind getting blame for by some non-sense.... If you want or old enough to remember/not remember.... you can google up Lead toys in the early 2000 articles. I think it is ToysRUs and lead paint... or I'll google it when I get better internet back home.
 

Outlander

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cherrybomb

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2580,I believe you kind of got caught between a rock and a hard place.A cheap breaker vs. a big over tightend nut done with impact.I have a rule where,once you get up to about 3/4,you should probably set the ratchet down and reach for breaker that you know is good quality.I also believe too many nuts are over tightened with impacts.While you had them nuts off,I would have brass brushed the threads,inspected them,checked nuts for rounded corners ,and hand threaded back on.Breaker or torque (no impact)to bolt sizes on thread chart.(may be a bit more).Everyday new situations come up,sometimes frustrating I know,but this one should be behind you.Good luck.
 

dnschmidt

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Yes it must be the unions that are at fault - ********. In GERMANY damn near everybody is unionized and they have the best tools and best balance of payments balance sheet in the world. When will mindless Americans stop blaming themselves in some Calvinistic self hatred and start blaming the greedy corporations that care neither for them or for the country.
 

MUD DAWG

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Yes it must be the unions that are at fault - ********. In GERMANY damn near everybody is unionized and they have the best tools and best balance of payments balance sheet in the world. When will mindless Americans stop blaming themselves in some Calvinistic self hatred and start blaming the greedy corporations that care neither for them or for the country.

If anyone believes without unions, globalization, automation, and senior executive greed wouldn't exist, then I sure hope they got an awesome trophy for being the most naive person in the world.
 

Mechanical Noise

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"Workers said managers later told them they’d been too busy to inform employees" - really? As a senior manager at a huge company going through a ton of organization change this is the biggest line of **** I have read in a long time. Wrong people were working for those 10 weeks.

/rant off, blood boiling is slowing

The employees were actually informed by their doctors. It took the old SK management 10 weeks to confirm that the old SK had dropped health insurance on the employees. Cutting health insurance pretty much guarantees a strike, so the old SK got another 10 weeks out of them.

The strike did end and the union employees got their health insurance restored. Pay went from $14/hr to $8/hr. The old SK went broke a few months later.

Yeah, those dastardly unions. They screw management over every chance they can get.
 

JazzBlueRT

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+1 on that
Problem is greed and companies trying make easy bucks with cheap china manufacturing .
Will end in tears if don't see sense and change as can't keep on outsourcing/buying from china and expect local economies survive.

For-Profit corporations exist solely to make a profit. A corporations primary directive is to produce a good or service at the lowest possible cost and to sell that good or service at the maximum price the market will support. While people can debate the social morality of corporations, the fact is that corporations and capitalism have lifted more people out of poverty than an other socio-economic system.

Who is more greedy, Snap-on who sells tools at over inflated prices or Craftsman who imports overseas tools to sell at affordable prices? Both companies employ different strategies to arrive at the same result: maximize profits.

Here is something interesting.

https://ycharts.com/companies/SNA/profit_margin

Snap-on's profit margins have grown 50% over the past 5 years.

I would suggest that Snap-on's margin increases are due to less competition as industrial tool sellers consolidate and that Craftsman profit margins (poor Sears management withstanding) are decreasing in part from increased competition in the DIY market.

While it may be popular to denounce greedy corporations as the scourge of mankind, most people would be sitting naked and near starving in straw huts without them.
 

kythri

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Who is more greedy, Snap-on who sells tools at over inflated prices or Craftsman who imports overseas tools to sell at affordable prices? Both companies employ different strategies to arrive at the same result: maximize profits.

On that note:

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11184

Snap-on F-80 released some time in late 2007, for $73.95.

10 years later, that ratchet is $109.95

Not commenting on the ridiculous complaint of "corporate greed", just citing an example that supports your point. Some manufacturers outsource to cut costs and keep prices low, others just jack the price.

That said, I doubt production costs of a ratchet have increased 50% over a decade.
 

jumbojak

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The deck weighs 340 pounds so it is nearly impossible to take the deck off and flip it up without several helpers. It is way easier to just drive the mower up on a set of ramps instead. The deck hydraulically lifts, but not nearly enough to get my cordless impact under there.

I had no idea I would need a breaker bar or impact to get the blades off. That is why I didn't plan ahead and order a better breaker bar online. I changed blades daily on the same style of mower for six summers in hgih school and college. We only used a regular 1/2" ratchet so I didn't realize I would need an impact or a breaker bar.

That's a heavy deck. I see your problem now.
 

Cummins_Tech

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Snap on always runs deals on any new tool they come out with. That's the best time to buy anything from SO, when it's a brand spanking new model. When the MG1250 came out, I got it for $700 + tax off of the truck. Now, it's $900+.




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Cummins_Tech

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Just like how I bought my KLR722 for $5000 when they first were released, now they retail for $6500.


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zendriver

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Yes it must be the unions that are at fault - ********. In GERMANY damn near everybody is unionized and they have the best tools and best balance of payments balance sheet in the world. When will mindless Americans stop blaming themselves in some Calvinistic self hatred and start blaming the greedy corporations that care neither for them or for the country.

Blaming Unions is just another form, of denial, what what is really just a natural transgression in business - getting it done for the lowest costs.

At one time nearly everything was "made in USA", because - for many reasons, it was the cheapest place to make products, which were mostly sold in USA.

Then it was Canada. Then Japan. Next Taiwan. Now China.

We can blame Corporations, but they are in business to make money, for their investors - no other reason.

If the Union haters stepped out of denial mode, for a minute, they'd remember that, nearly every American job, was complete ****, before Unions and that every non-Union business, usually based their pay/benefits in line with their organized labor competitors.

Would Toyota pay their workers $18/hr, if GM was paying 12?

Of course not.
 

JazzBlueRT

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On that note:

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11184

Snap-on F-80 released some time in late 2007, for $73.95.

10 years later, that ratchet is $109.95

Not commenting on the ridiculous complaint of "corporate greed", just citing an example that supports your point. Some manufacturers outsource to cut costs and keep prices low, others just jack the price.

That said, I doubt production costs of a ratchet have increased 50% over a decade.

My comment about corporate greed was meant to be sarcastic. I fully support the profit motive of corporations whether it is to jack up prices or reduce costs. Overall it allows a much broader range of tools that fit within their many people's budgets and needs.
 

visionguru

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Here is the hypocrite thing.... if Channel lock manufactured that tool in China... did all those cut cost things. When the tool fail.... They have people like you to blame China but not channel lock who sold you the tool.... that is the exact point... Some of you have no balls to actually go down to the source of the problem. I won't say China is all good and saint... they are just capitalizing on the opportunity of the problems we have at home... and probably don't mind getting blame for by some non-sense.... If you want or old enough to remember/not remember.... you can google up Lead toys in the early 2000 articles. I think it is ToysRUs and lead paint... or I'll google it when I get better internet back home.

Exactly! The quality is actually determined largely by the sellers, not where the product was made. I have a friend who is a supplier of Christmas decoration stuff for Menards. He told me that Menards are giving lower price almost every year, but the material and labor cost are going up in China every year. He had to instruct the factory to use the cheapest materials and skimp on the quality in order to make a profit.

People blame corporations for moving jobs elsewhere, but they still want their retirement accounts to grow, which have a lot to do with how the corporates perform financially (stock market). What would they do if they are a CEO?

Buying "Made in USA" seems a theme here. If that's the way to keep the jobs in America, it won't work and sad. That's basically making donations to companies that can no longer compete. We need to keep innovating, making advanced, high tech products.

Making a $10 wrenches, or making airplanes that can fetch millions? Making a $10 Walmart T-shirt, or making high end sports clothes that sell for $1000?
 

dogdog

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Exactly! The quality is actually determined largely by the sellers, not where the product was made. I have a friend who is a supplier of Christmas decoration stuff for Menards. He told me that Menards are giving lower price almost every year, but the material and labor cost are going up in China every year. He had to instruct the factory to use the cheapest materials and skimp on the quality in order to make a profit.

People blame corporations for moving jobs elsewhere, but they still want their retirement accounts to grow, which have a lot to do with how the corporates perform financially (stock market). What would they do if they are a CEO?

Buying "Made in USA" seems a theme here. If that's the way to keep the jobs in America, it won't work and sad. That's basically making donations to companies that can no longer compete. We need to keep innovating, making advanced, high tech products.

Making a $10 wrenches, or making airplanes that can fetch millions? Making a $10 Walmart T-shirt, or making high end sports clothes that sell for $1000?

Yup , hopefully some one come up with a better solution then the blame game.
We get no where blaming others for problems home. And probably not much assets to sell once all the wells are dried up.
 
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