Falcon's next shop - build thread

[Falcon67]

Don't say "roost" - somebody else has that LOL. I haven't bought a stick but might as well start blabbing about it. Might help keep thoughts on track. It'll be slow going for a while anyway.

After keeping it in the back of my mind while the move went on, I now, all of a sudden, think I have a decent idea of what's coming. I spent a few minutes yesterday on the lot with a tape measure and some sticks. I had to quit when the tape measure screwed up and sliced my finger. Fortunately, it wasn't the finger I use for traffic signaling. I'll survive but the tape measure is toast.

A couple of views of the site. It's nice and flat but has a few sprinkler heads in the ground. It looks like I can site the building just so the big tree loses one branch and maybe miss the little ones in the back. You can see just the corner of the 50x60 slab that the neighbor has. If they build something there, you'd never almost never see my building or the trailers, etc and that would be perfect. (They have expressed interest in selling it, but I don't see how we could afford it. Besides, the apron faces the wrong way - towards their house). our propertly line runs through the center of the big round concrete ring.

Between the fence and the trailer, about 12' in from the alley side property line. I think the setback is 5', so I can clear that easy. Besides - need room to hide the dead pickup back there. The fence would come apart and move to the building corners.

Visio floor plan - air in blue, electric in green. A/C would be wall mounted window units. Work area is 12' wide which seems like a good number. It's 1008 sq/ft, which is 200 sq/ft more than what I had. And close to the 900 sq/ft number that gets you an audience with the zoning board. Nothing to fear there, plenty of large sheds and farm buildings close by.

After a bunch of scribbles, I kept with 24' wide because it uses affordable joist lumber. Hand build rafters are about 60% cheaper on a 24' span than trusses. With a simple rectangle floorplan, do one good pattern rafter and the rest can be ready before lunch.

I can start with one overhead and maybe add a second in the back later. The ceiling over the 16' door area could be vaulted some, not sure how much right now. I'd like to have room for a 4 post, but I don't think I can get 11' 6" in the middle. I'd rather stick with 8' walls, but might consider 9 or 10. Haven't put a pencil to that yet.

The little 3 x 6 room on the end would hold the compressor, a small sink and the bladder tank for the well plus the well controls. We already have a well and the bulk of the system sits in the back yard, just out in the open. The POs never housed it or anything. It is powered right now from the far side of the house. The power and valve wiring is all screwed up so the pump control is a breaker and valve control is my hand stuck in a hole. Siting the building along the fence puts it just a couple of feet from the well head, allowing me to put the junk out of sight inside and house the controls close to the action. Most of the valves are straight runs from the well head, except for one. It would clean up the back yard nice and I'd get a bitty wash sink to boot.

I'll put down more stakes and mull things over to make sure I'm not overlooking something obvious.

 

[larry_g]

If you look in my build thread linked below you will see that I have a clean shop area similar to what you propose. The 12' is ok but with the 3' door its a tight fit to get equipment into the room. I have a false wall (yet to be built) that is between the dirty and clean areas that will be 6' wide and quick to remove to move major pieces into and out of the area. I also put the breaker box into the dividing wall and it makes access for running wires easy as the stud bay containing the box has screwed on wall board. I also hate a 24' deep shop. You have so little work room on each end of the car. If you have government limited space try a 30x36' and see how it lays out for you. Have the door, or doors, on the 30' wall and 36' deep. Following your other posts you ahve two race cars I think so you would have a bit more breathing room around them for the work you have to do..

Good luck

lg
no neat sig line

 

[wolfmoon]

Looks like mesquite.

 

[Falcon67]

Looks like mesquite.

Yep - great for smoking meat and gettin' poked in the head.

Good point on the 36" door - I need to make that a 40+ to be sure the engine stand can roll through. Or a pocket door. The false wall is also an excellent idea. I'm not governement limited, but I like the 24' dimension. I had no problem pulling engine/trans even as a unit in 24' with the tool box and bench in front. A could more feet would be nice, but lumber costs go way up - maybe 20%. This is a sub $10K project, if you really want to know the challenge.

EDIT - that increase may not be completely true. I could use the trick they used on the house next door to span wider than 24' with cheaper lumber. But I'd lose my flexibility with vaulting the ceiling a bit. I have to put a pencil to the idea. I could also put in a beam and posts at the 24' mark but I like clear floor space. We're not etched in stone just yet.

 

[David79z28]

Well thought out!!!

 

[Mike14k]

I think if I was doing this, I'd install a 6' "french door" with glass between the two work areas. You get a 6' opening, and a lot of extra light into the machine area.

My first shop, somewhat by accident, I snagged a "return" at Home Depot. So I installed it and liked the extra light and opening size. So in Shop #3, I installed one on purpose.

 

[Jack Olsen]

Subscribed.

 

[49stude2r6]

For wall height I had a quick question. Are you building on a slab or would their be footings, a few extra dollars in conctrete could add significant height while still using the 8ft lumber walls? Or is the wall height more of a neighborhood asthetics concern?

 

[Falcon67]

I'll be a slab with maybe 12" x 6" deep perimeter and maybe 3 beams across. I want to keep a low profile. I'm on a tight budget, so when you start doing 9 or 10' exterior walls you get into cutting and slicing material, plus the cost of the additional materials. I plan to use Hardi board (4x8) for siding as I have good experience with the material. I wanted to use Hardi plank, but the cost is significantly more - like 30%. It's technically possible to hide a 9' wall behind a good size eve, but material cost and time factor in - either you lose 12" off a 10' 2x4 or you build a bunch of spacers. [edit] Plus the wall is heavier and harder to raise for one or two.

 

[long handles]

What did you use to draw the floor plan up with?

 

[Falcon67]

What did you use to draw the floor plan up with?

Visio

What I learned so far -

Vaulting the ceiling requires the design and installation of a ridge beam that can take the roof load. Not sure I want to go that route. Raising the joists over 1/3 of the rafter changes them into rafter ties and that also gets into some serious engineering and up sizes the rafters accordingly.
http://www.nachi.org/collar-rafter-ties.htm
http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=172305&page=372


Sheet rock and studs are available for 9' or 10' ceilings but not siding. Siding can be had by special order. Cost goes up quite a bit too.

So thinking about it, and remembering that I have been working in 8' of shop ceiling for...40 years or so...without an issue, I threw it all out under the heading of "KISS".

Using retail pricing I've already had to back down a little on size. Things just cost bucks. After chatting up the city manager, some more design constraints appeared. Set backs are 5' from the side property line and 3' off the back. But another hitch - no non-residential buildings allowed on a single lot by its self. The side setback is the lesser fight and with a bit smaller building, no problemo - I'll just slide it over 5'. Fixed.

The lot issue requires a zoning variance. Since the lot is paid for we would not want too try and tie it into the house lot. The lender would probably run from that anyway. Over all it does not appear to be a problem because:
1) next lot has a 40x50 slab already
2) only two houses in the immediate area sit on single lots. The rest have two or more.
3) Several of the two lot houses have sheds or other buildings that sit on the second lot
4) A review of the tax info shows that all lots are taxed separately, so that indicates the deeds are all filed individually. Meaning those lots are not "tied" to the house lot, co-joined or whatever the legal term might be. The lot next door with the slab is down at $14K on the tax rolls. Their house is separate at $122K.

The city manager invited me down anytime to review the guidelines on the books, so I'll know what I have to work around.

So I'd be rather surprised that a variance may be denied, but I'll go get through that process before I do anything else. I can build a Power Point presentation that'll make 'em give me what I want just to get rid of me.


In the mean time, I revised the layout. When I get a site plan done, it'll make more sense. Note that the ridge beam/vault option could still be in play with double 9' doors instead of a single 16' door.

 

[Falcon67]

Short update -
Design Change, shooting for 40' with two front 9' doors. Depending on how it sits against the trees on the lot. I may yet be forced into a single 16' because of the huge tree location. We moved it to the far side of the lot to make room in the yard for other things. Setbacks are 5' from side lot line, 3' from rear lot line.

How it'll sit on the lot:

Variance request has been turned in to the city manager. There is no form or formal process, so I just put together some info and a typed request letter and took it over there Friday. The City Manager has no issue but it's not his call. The lead of the P&Z is a realtor and not real hot on the idea, so we'll see. P&Z will make a recommendation, then I put it on the agenda for a council meeting and the council votes up or down. The primary issue - no accessory buildings allowed on a lot without a primary building or residence. As noted above - that cow is already out of the barn right next door.

 

[Falcon67]

Another update - after playing with stakes, string and tape measures for several evenings I turned the layout sideways because there was no place to park the trailers. Not enough room behind the building. Nothing yet on the variance.
Les Nessman lines:

Worst part about this is the two trees in the back will need backhoe work to get out. The big mesquite in front will lose 2 1/2 branches (one branch has a winters worth of firewood). Good part is that the location is flat within maybe 2-3 inches. Trailers could park where the red truck sits as there is 23' between the building and the lot line. A little 4' fence and a couple of gates and you'd not see them from the street.

A potential wrinkle - the slab next door to our lot is for sale. Have done some talking and that's about it. 36x54, way bigger than I can build.

 

[Falcon67]

Measured that slab today - I need my feet calibrated. It's 40x60 with a 12' apron on the east side. Big, huge, too much.

 

[787B]

Big, huge, too much.

Is there such a thing when it comes to garages/shops? I think not!

 

[Falcon67]

Perfect size for ME but the checkbook says SORRY CHARLIE. Bummer.

Got a quote on concrete yesterday - $88/yd delivered. With local sales tax, $2000 for 21 yds. Excellent price. I also have a contact that can do turn key on the slab, have to think about that. Budgeted $3500 for the slab and if I do it all it'll just hit that mark. Retail rebar, sand, chairs, ties, etc comes to $1120. That number should be lower with shopping and buying in bulk.

 

[Falcon67]

Glacial progress - got past the P&Z hearing last night and they voted to move it to a public hearing on 7/11, just before the next council meeting. Paid $25 to cover the mail outs to neighbors inside the 200' circle. I have talked to all the facing neighbors and there is no problem there. I doubt that anyone behind will care but we'll see. There would have to be quite a bit of opposition to persuade the committee that it's a bad thing. Voting to move it to a public hearing basically means they agree that I qualify for the variance. Downside of 7/11 is that if they vote to allow, it'll be the second Monday of August before I can put it before the council for final approval.

In the mean time, I continue to chew up 500' of layout twine to find the ideal spot. Found a place for the pool in the back yard, so that freed up some space on the lot. The two lots across the street are under contract for a house, so if I can catch the people clearing the trees off the lot I may be able to bribe somebody to uproot a couple of trees for me.

 

[texasguy]

While the slab next door may be big, you don't have to build it all - there is always a need for outdoor work areas. It appears to be already plumbed for water and sewer - a couple of costs you need to consider if you build from scratch. And the fact a slab exists may get you past the P&Z more easily. Just my .02 - best of luck with the build.

 

[musgofasta]

With the slab next door, build as big as you can afford, then throw a carport up to cover the trailer on concrete...

 

[Falcon67]

>And the fact a slab exists may get you past the P&Z more easily.
Actually, it does not. Same deal required - no building permit issued for that slab unless a variance granted. Even if the owner had a permit to build at one time, it's expired long ago. The fact that it's there and there is no permit on file actually makes it more of an issue than what I'm doing. My spider sense says that thing is an old issue, so I'm staying this side of it. All things considered, I would have a worse time getting a permit for the big slab than for my building. Using the lot right next door, I can show evidence that the accessory building restriction denies me the same opportunity as the neighbors have as far as use of the property. The slab being an extra lot away does not carry near as much weight.

Note - I met the new mayor. He has a 50 model Ford pickup that used to have a vette 327 in it. So I have an avenue for appeal should I need it LOL.

 

[Falcon67]

Update Time:
v5 - this is the one, because we've started on the slab and that's that.

Monday this last week, was the public hearing on the variance. Our neighbor came and said some nice things about us and that he had no problem with the build. No one else spoke. Vote to approve - unanimous. Over in 5 minutes. Council meeting followed and the City Manager got the item on the agenda. Short review, no input from the public - done.

Tuesday AM - got my building permit. Called the concrete guy and got them on the job.

Inspection was targeted for Friday but the ground turns out to be damn hard to work in a drought, in spite of me watering the **** out of the area. So Thursday, I rented a skid loader so they could get a jump on it. Big savings having a trailer that will handle 6000 lbs of loader. One day rental with tax and fuel - $153.

A professional running the machine.

Grandma likes the big toy.

A non-professional fills a big hole on our other property with excess dirt. Man, do I have top soil now.

By days end, earth moved around as needed.

New target - inspection Thursday AM and pour Thursday afternoon. Maybe - it's hell for these guys to work here in the afternoons, with the temp upwards of 105F. So I told them to take the time they need. My birthday is Sunday and it'd be nice to have a slab for a present. Ha!

Spent 5 hours today out there - got part of the power feed ditch dug (non metallic has to be 18" or can be 12" down with 2" of concrete over it) and the lines that feed the sprinkler runs on that end of the lot cut and capped. EMT only has to be 12" but that's $200 worth of 2" tube vs $51 for non metallic. I might get that all dug this week, but I doubt it. I got enough done to put the elbow under the slab abd stub up where the breaker box will locate. Soak the ground and it turns to muck or gumbo. Dry it out and you can land a 747 on it. I'm buying a pick axe tomorrow. But I also have a $1000 Samsung dryer that just quit drying clothes. Something always gets in the way.

 

[chickenhauler]

You'll be glad you picked the 16' door (plus it looks better). If you're anything like me, in a couple of years there won't be room for 2 cars in there anyway lol.

 

[Falcon67]

There will allways be room for the two race cars. It might be snug though! The ironic thing is that the first project is to repair the 86 Ford truck, which means after all the work there will still be one race car sitting outside on a trailer until the truck is running again. I need 8 more feet...

Steel goes in today, inspection is 4 PM Friday and we pour Saturday at 6:30 AM. City manager pissed me off, told him the inspector better like it because we're pouring Saturday come hell or hot weather.

 

[Falcon67]

Almost there.

Ah, er, those sprinkler lines were supposed to be over by the fence...

 

[jerseywild]

That's one big sprinkler line!

 

[W650Mike]

That's one big sprinkler line!

2" main - 1" past the valve is pretty typical.

Look'n good Falcon man!

 

[fergus]

Go Chris go! Glad to see you're moving forward. Thanks again for your help with my heap last year.

 

[Falcon67]

It's a 1 1/2 line to three valves, one of which feeds back to the back yard where the break is. Thats the 1" line. Go figure. There are pipes everywhere around this place. There are two lines under the slab - never hit those even with the ditch witch used to cut the beams. I capped two lines that feed two sprinkler head runs that will be under 4" of concrete tomorrow.

Inspection passed! Here we go!

 

[NUTTSGT]

Let the concrete flow !!!

 

[mws444]

Looks like you are off to a great start! Boys up north had a little taste of our heat.....it can be brutal! I am in the desert 100 to 115 normal summer around here, but at least the humidity stays around 35%.
How are you going to frame it? I noticed your drawings had AC that is a must out here as well.
You have an awsome build going! I love watching these things get built!
Keep posting up for us!:rules:

 

[onething]

Merkel is bigger than it looks from the Interstate. I'd have never guessed you would have so many hoops there. Build looks good and I will subscribe.

 

[Falcon67]

5:30am Saturday comes early. Wathed the pour, placed the plate bolts, dug the power conduit ditch, repaired the sprinkly lines, had a late lunch in town with the wife, got a call from daughter about a block party, cooked two batches of ribs for the party. Didn't get back to bed until about midnite. Wife and I got out the chairs and sat in the driveway Saturday night about 11:30 looking at the milky way, had a glass of wine and fell asleep almost immediately. My snoring woke her up and we went to a real bed. Went to the dragstrip Sunday to work on the timing system with some guys (it was 108F at the track!), then birthday dinner, then...I'm beat! Can I go back to work to get some rest?!?

They said 6:30, damn late by 3 minutes LOL

First load hits the ground shortly after. This is a 5 sack mix. My guy says 3500 guaranteed and maybe as much as 5000 in 30 days. He basically said he sells concrete and not BS.

Not long to half done

Power trowelling by about noon

And there it is. We had a problem between loads - the driver of the second truck was late. He got his azz chewed big time. Didn't really have any impact other than I waited almost too long to put in the plate bolts where the first load landed. Had to hammer them in and stuff in some mix. They are all stuck pretty good, only a couple have a little play. Nothing a spurt of epoxy can't fix. The guys were real good about pulling up the bar grid to keep it in the pour and not on the ground.

Water shows a small low spot, but it's not anything special. The surface looks good after two days and the forms come off tomorrow (Monday) night. I still have about 10~15 wheel barrow loads of dirt to move. I missed the last truck washing out in the alley, so I have a lump out there to bust up to stay clean with the city. I'll get the ground smoothed out and cleaned up this week, then finish the ditch for the power and start thinking about sticks.

They power conduit should have 2" of concrete on top by code - the next to last truck dumped a pile by the alley and I wheeled that over and dumped it in the ditch - so I'm half done there already and didn't have to buy any sack crete!

 

[Bib Overalls]

Nothing quite like the smell of fresh concrete in the morning. Makes every real man's heart jump with joy.

 

[Falcon67]

Well, after bidding out the main part of the lumber needed, it seems that retail is pretty much it. I got a contact from a friend in the business and it seems there's just not a lot of wiggle room in lumber. So, with tax and all it comes to right at $5000 for the frame, exterior siding and all roofing materials. Still, not bad. McCoy's came in the best so I'll be picking up about $700 worth of framing materials in the morning. I'll get enough to do the perimeter and interior wall then start on the roof framing next week. If it goes well and I don't die of heat stroke, I may have the framing up by Sunday.

 

[Nighttrain]

Glad to see you get the new garage going. Try to start early in the mornings and keep the cold water bottles handy in the heat.

 

[Falcon67]

Glad to see you get the new garage going. Try to start early in the mornings and keep the cold water bottles handy in the heat.

Yes. It was 108F today and 105F at 7 PM in the back yard. I have a ton of vacation time, but I'm going to work with my boss on some half days - shop work in the AM, go into work for the afternoon. I need to get the thing boxed in and painted before the second week of September if possible. But yea - can't enjoy the fruits of my labor if I die from heat stroke.

 

[Falcon67]

Off to a slow but at least a start. McCoy's won the price war, so they get the business. But by and large, everyone is within a few $ of each other. Ain't much there to work with. So Thursday AM - before it gets real hot - I dropped $700 at the lumber yard. Not having to pay for delivery is nice.

I had most of the plating laid out by that evening.

Friday I marked most of the plates and finished that up late Saturday AM. That's after running back to McCoys for some **** I forgot. By 2PM I had this much and had to call it - 110F air temp, about 120 something out on the slab. Heat gets to you - window got framed wrong, trimmers in wrong place LOL. Easy fix, but duh.

We kept our youngest grandson over the weekend, so joint efforts had to wait until nap time. Sunday morning I got my wife to help place and hold the first 16' of wall, then I got it cornered and free standing.

A little more time + work and I managed to get one whole one end up and stable. It's noon - 108F already and on my 4th bottle of Gatoraid (G2 Rasberry-Melon, only 45 calories a bottle - nummy) I've about had it. The heat just beats you up when you are not so used to it. I'm going to try and take some half day vacation days - work on this in the morning and go to the office after lunch. It's nice out there at 7 AM. By 2 it's just brutal.

Lookin' good.

Got to get more done this week and unload the trailer as we have a race this next weekend and nothing will get done on the shop.

 

[Falcon67]

The half days are helping. Seems though that you work for a while and when you're done it doesn't look like much. 3.5 hours burned here.

I'll have to have a talk in the mirror with the general contractor about this showing up at 7:30AM and going on break at 10 AM, then never getting back to it.

Ah, but add another 3 hours and bada-bing - more wall! Not bad for one guy. I suppose if I was Amish it'd be half done LOL.

String line says I got it close, even with the wonker-jawed lumber you get these days.

40 more feet of wall and I can start thinking about joists and rafters. Maybe have it up my Saturday before going to the track. Storms are predicted today and tomorrow. That would slow things up, but dang we need the rain. Real bad. This is a flareup on Tuesday, less than a mile from the house. Burnt a couple hundred acres and destroyed a railroad bridge. Special thanks to the local fire dept and the Texas Forest Service - they had it under control by the next morning. I walked 60' down the alley from the house to the edge of the field to take this pic - that's just way too close.

 

[1Garageman]

I can't believe all of the hard work you have been doing in that blistering heat! I don't see how you do it. Your work looks great!

 

[Falcon67]

Little more progress - last of the exterior wall framing except for the 16' beam over the big door and the final top plates. Maybe get that done tonight. That last 16' section with the two windows was a little on the heavy side but I got it wrangled in there. I should get the interior wall done this weekend and maybe pick up the joists and rafters.

This AM was the worst of the week - we had a little rain in the area yesterday (lightning set more fires, so not that helpful) and it was humid with zero wind. gaak! Actually got better by 10:30, dried out with a breeze but I had to knock off to go to the real job.