First timer - TIG welds are gray - tried everything :(

[welder4956]

sharpen your point.

Yes, you need more taper on the tungsten. And 1/16" diameter tungsten would work better.

Edit: I see from your original post that you are already using 1/16" tungsten (1.6 mm).

Also, you are using a standard collet body.

You need a gas lens collet body to get better color on stainless.

 

[handyman2020]

sharpen your point.

I did before each attempt and then it turned like that after fresh grinding and cleaning

Looking better, but may still need to reduce the amps so you have time to add filler wire. Also, 0.035" or 0.045" diameter wire would be a better choice for thin exhaust tubing.

if I reduce amps then there is just molten drop of filler rod, i will buy the size you mentioned, any specific material type or just buy the size you mentioned from that amazon listing? and is that a good brand or i should get another brand for filler rod?

Slow down, amps down.

if slow down, amps down then there the filler rod wont melt at all, i tried staying at one place long enough to melt 1/16 filler rod, then everything was gray again.

 

[handyman2020]

Yes, you need more taper on the tungsten. And 1/16" diameter tungsten would work better.

Edit: I see from your original post that you are already using 1/16" tungsten (1.6 mm).

Also, you are using a standard collet body.

You need a gas lens collet body to get better color on stainless.

i ordered new furick cup as mentioned by other member in previous posts.

ww.amazon.com/gp/product/B07R5DKN5Q/?tag=atomicindus04-20[/URL]

 

[welder4956]

I did before each attempt and then it turned like that after fresh grinding and cleaning

Try not to stick the tungsten to the work or puddle so that it stays clean. Does your machine have high frequency start or are you scratch starting?

if I reduce amps then there is just molten drop of filler rod, i will buy the size you mentioned, any specific material type or just buy the size you mentioned from that amazon listing? and is that a good brand or i should get another brand for filler rod?

ER308 is the correct filler rod. Brand is not a big concern, since it must meet the AWS specification for composition, manufacturing and testing. This one is a little less expensive than the one you linked: https://www.amazon.com/ER308L-0-045-Stainless-Welding-Filler/dp/B07HGHL2HS?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[dogdog]

I was told the opposite more amp and travel faster. Maybe work on your rhythm a bit


Preflow and post flow of gas is a thing.
Dipping the rod into the weld and not the tungsten is a thing
Try ER309L they are easier imo (if you can find ER309H rare) or practice on regular er70s

And the other thing notice is post flow seems to be an issue as the person whipped the torch off the weld as soon as he stopped. Leave torch on the weld in place till gas stop flowing

I highly suggest you watch those videos on YouTube a bit more and pay attentions. The dvd by that guy is good if can find it.

 

[handyman2020]

Try not to stick the tungsten to the work or puddle so that it stays clean. Does your machine have high frequency start or are you scratch starting?


ER308 is the correct filler rod. Brand is not a big concern, since it must meet the AWS specification for composition, manufacturing and testing. This one is a little less expensive than the one you linked: https://www.amazon.com/ER308L-0-045-Stainless-Welding-Filler/dp/B07HGHL2HS?tag=atomicindus08-20

I just ordered ER309L after your reply on the size 0.035 and 0.045

I am not sure if my machine has the feature, can you please check the function table for me

I was told the opposite more amp and travel faster. Maybe work on your rhythm a bit


Preflow and post flow of gas is a thing.
Dipping the rod into the weld and not the tungsten is a thing
Try ER309L they are easier imo (if you can find ER309H rare) or practice on regular er70s

And the other thing notice is post flow seems to be an issue as the person whipped the torch off the weld as soon as he stopped. Leave torch on the weld in place till gas stop flowing

I highly suggest you watch those videos on YouTube a bit more and pay attentions. The dvd by that guy is good if can find it.

thankyou for the tips, i will get to this again once I receive my E309l rods

 

[steel 35]

Show your fresh point please,
You should see fire from the point only
not a huge ball.
I did it purged for a living!

 

[PCustoms]

I really think you need to teach yourself how to TIG mild steel before you try these more difficult materials.

 

[welder4956]

I just ordered ER309L after your reply on the size 0.035 and 0.045

I am not sure if my machine has the feature, can you please check the function table for me






thankyou for the tips, i will get to this again once I receive my E309l rods

The Technical Parameters table on page 5 of the user manual says it has a high frequency arc starter:



You should be able to initiate the arc by holding the tungsten close to the surface (about 1/8"), but not touching, then press the start button. The tungsten should stay clean and sharp as long as it doesn't touch the wire or the surface. It will get dirty eventually, but should not get dirty after only one or two beads unless the metal hasn't been cleaned or shielding gas is lost while it is hot. Use a wire brush to clean each bead before restarting.

 

[handyman2020]

Show your fresh point please,
You should see fire from the point only
not a huge ball.
I did it purged for a living!

40A attempt grinded, pointy and clean rod

---------


25A attempt grinded, pointy and clean rod

--------------------

30A attempt grinded, pointy and clean rod

 

[welder4956]

40 amps is looking about right if the tube ends are butted tightly, but just a little too fast. I think the Furick cup with gas lens will help. What is the wall thickness of the header tubes? Once you start adding filler wire you may need a few more amps. Increase in 5 amp increments till you get full penetration on practice pieces, then start purging at 5 to 10 cfh.

 

[dogdog]

thankyou for the tips, i will get to this again once I receive my E309l rods

309 is more versatile imo can do 400 series , stainless and different stainless, stainless and unknown metal, and cast iron somewhat.

Also unless you are using those gas lens cups that waste lots of gas, the stick out is about 1/8” only

 

[steel 35]

35 A should work well on 2”
more taper sharper ; final grind marks parallel with point
worked best for me using 6-8” stone.
wrap free hand rest working hand, spinn both for comfort

 

[handyman2020]

40 amps is looking about right if the tube ends are butted tightly, but just a little too fast. I think the Furick cup with gas lens will help. What is the wall thickness of the header tubes? Once you start adding filler wire you may need a few more amps. Increase in 5 amp increments till you get full penetration on practice pieces, then start purging at 5 to 10 cfh.

wall thickness is 1.4mm for mandrel bends chinese, tubes are 1.5mm because different local supplier,

35 A should work well on 2”
more taper sharper ; final grind marks parallel with point
worked best for me using 6-8” stone.
wrap free hand rest working hand, spinn both for comfort

I was using 80grit belt sander to grind the tungsten Rod, should I use 200 grit belt to sharpen tungsten rod?

309 is more versatile imo can do 400 series , stainless and different stainless, stainless and unknown metal, and cast iron somewhat.

Also unless you are using those gas lens cups that waste lots of gas, the stick out is about 1/8” only

not sure if I understood you correctly, I will use Furick cup #10 I ordered, but what do you mean by " , the stick out is about 1/8” only"
Thanks

 

[welder4956]

1/8" tungsten stickout past the end of the cup is going to make it very difficult to see the puddle and will have a tendency to make you increase arc length in order to see. The rule of thumb for proper shielding is that the tungsten stickout should not exceed the cup diameter, and gas flow rate should be 2 to 3 times the cup size. It's not a hard and fast rule, but will keep you in the right ballpark for good welds. So, a #5 gas cup with a 5/16" opening could have as much as 5/16" stickout with gas flow rate of 10-15 cfh.

 

[welder4956]

For 1.4 & 1.5 mm thick stainless, 35-40 amps is going to put you in the ballpark. You will have to adjust the amps up or down to suit the way you like to weld.

When you add filler wire, you won't be able to travel as fast as your videos show because you have to wait for the filler wire to melt and fuse both sides of the weld bead. The melting of the filler wire also removes some heat from the puddle, that's why the smaller filler wire diameter works better on thin metals.

Keep practicing, you'll get there.

 

[MOS3522]

Your rod is protruding a hair too far out of the cup, which is reducing your gas shielding.

 

[steel 35]

I learned with a 12" disk, then changed to how this guy on The y-tube does it.​

copied the headline not a link.
Never seen it done on a belt.

Basics of TIG Welding - How To sharpen Your Tungstens​

 

[MOS3522]

Do yourself a favor, get one of these Chinese dremel gadgets off Amazon. Cut my tungsten sharpening time dramatically, and gives me very precise electrode edges.

 

[cosmokenney]

Try not to stick the tungsten to the work or puddle so that it stays clean. Does your machine have high frequency start or are you scratch starting?

@handyman2020 This reminded me, especially with stainless, it is important to not pull your filler rod out of the gas envelope between dabs. This keeps the hot tip of the filler from oxidizing and subsequently depositing oxides into the puddle.

 

[dogdog]

not sure if I understood you correctly, I will use Furick cup #10 I ordered, but what do you mean by " , the stick out is about 1/8” only"
Thanks

Your rod is protruding a hair too far out of the cup, which is reducing your gas shielding.

^^^^^
This guy would have explain it better. You got to make sure gas coverage for your electrode and weld.

There is that video on the fabricator series explains cup and gas coverage. I am just a once a blue moon need to weld guy. But these tungsten stick out are basics. With furick cup alike things, you can stick the tungsten out a bit more. Those things eats gas


I think it’s this video, he might have an updated one that is argue about not using furick or gas lens cups

 

[handyman2020]

I will start practicing again once the orders will arrive in a week or two, until then I can watch videos and read your inputs again should I have missed anything.

 

[MoonRise]

Practice, practice, practice.

I think you are trying to jump right in before starting with the basics.

First try, just get a flat piece of plain mild steel. About 1/8" thick. Clean it to remove all 'stuff' that is not actual steel until the piece is bright and shiny and clean steel. No rust, no oil or grease or paint or anything that is NOT clean bright shiny steel.

Once you have your flat steel all prepped and your tungsten prepped (look up on what that all means if you are not sure), then with proper stick out (how far the tip of the tungsten sticks out past the end of the gas cup) start a single puddle on the steel. No travel and no filler, just one single puddle in one place. Hold the tungsten the proper distance from the workpiece, start the arc and get a puddle to form and then HOLD the torch still and stop the arc. Hold the torch still until the post flow gas has ended. Look at the tungsten tip, is it still bright and shiny? Look at the puddle, is it bright and shiny (maybe a LITTLE bit of color on the edges of the puddle)? If all that is good, do it again. And again, and again for practice. One step at a time.

If your weld puddle or tungsten tip are NOT bright and shiny, then you have a problem somewhere. You or the machine or the gas itself. Investigate and check things until you can that single puddle to be 'good'.

Once you can do or get that to be 'good', then start moving the puddle along by moving the torch along. Still no filler being used, this stage is just to practice and check you and the machine and the gas.

I think you have too many unknowns going on at the same time. New machine, possible gas question, tungsten grinding, stick out, stainless steel, thin stainless steel, thin stainless steel tubing, etc.

Simplify and start with the basics. Flat bar, plain mild steel, no filler and just get a puddle formed. Work up from there.

 

[handyman2020]

so, I got furic cup only and no attachment, i am gonna order remaining accessories to make it fit in handle.

second, i tried again today with lot of practice, and i was able to

- keep the tungsten rod clean after each pass, I am able to find the sweet spot now so tungsten rod doesnt get messed and stays same as before
- I am able to make torch passes on steel and it looks okay.

I am thinking i had bad argon because when I was reaching end of the tank today it started working really well, other than i didnt change anything, just reduced amps but it doesnt make sense that before i had 35 amps and now I am working around 25amps and rod becomes blue at 35amps but 25 amps it stays super clean and I am still able to create puddle with 25amps.

 

[slowtwitch73]

Extreme frustration and chasing your tail is a right of passage with tig.
'Seek not to know the answer, but to understand the question'.

 

[welder4956]

so, I got furic cup only and no attachment, i am gonna order remaining accessories to make it fit in handle.

second, i tried again today with lot of practice, and i was able to

- keep the tungsten rod clean after each pass, I am able to find the sweet spot now so tungsten rod doesnt get messed and stays same as before
- I am able to make torch passes on steel and it looks okay.

I am thinking i had bad argon because when I was reaching end of the tank today it started working really well, other than i didnt change anything, just reduced amps but it doesnt make sense that before i had 35 amps and now I am working around 25amps and rod becomes blue at 35amps but 25 amps it stays super clean and I am still able to create puddle with 25amps.

Glad to see you are improving, practice is the key. Sounds like you still have a shielding gas flow issue, but I think you must still be using the standard collet body. A gas lens collet body and matching cup will help on stainless.

https://www.amazon.com/10PCS-Welding-Collet-45V43-13N22/dp/B08SCGXCMK?tag=atomicindus08-20

https://www.amazon.com/Alumina-WP-20-25-Welding/dp/B07G99V1PC?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[sqznby]

Practice practice practice and when you're done practicing practice a little more

And I'm not sure if it has been mentioned but Torch angle and travel speed is also pretty important.

Once you get all your consumables and get yourself in a comfortable zone, don't be afraid to turn up the heat. With that you will increase your speed accordingly.

 

[handyman2020]

Glad to see you are improving, practice is the key. Sounds like you still have a shielding gas flow issue, but I think you must still be using the standard collet body. A gas lens collet body and matching cup will help on stainless.

https://www.amazon.com/10PCS-Welding-Collet-45V43-13N22/dp/B08SCGXCMK?tag=atomicindus08-20

https://www.amazon.com/Alumina-WP-20-25-Welding/dp/B07G99V1PC?tag=atomicindus08-20

I just ordered the 71 piece kit because I only got Furick cups and no cullet etc. so I couldnt fit them, but do you think my comment made sense about argon gas tank running out/low and immediately i saw improvements? perhaps i had bad argon to start with?
all these practice i did with welder #6 cup
Thanks

 

[PCustoms]

Kind of crazy that you ran through a tank of argon already...

Is your regulator reading correctly?

 

[handyman2020]

Kind of crazy that you ran through a tank of argon already...

Is your regulator reading correctly?

I was practicing on aluminium welding and wasted quite a bit of tank on that as well.

 

[handyman2020]

@Firebrick43
@cvairwerks
@PCustoms
@dogdog
@welder4956
@slowtwitch73
@Donnie O
@OccupantRJ
@rlitman
@Dakotadadv8
@steel 35
@American Locomotive
@manwithtools
@cosmokenney
@MOS3522
@MoonRise
@sqznby


got new tank today from same supplier, there was a lady this time and she gave me green argon tank as compare to blue tank i had before but they didnt look same from area outside the valve, value safety things, whatever its called. you think i got bad argon? or the guy gave me mix? but the sales person said today the sticker on the tank is for pure argon, not sure the tank is not green, she was little spooked but then she said that the guy who gave your tank first time working for 7 years, not sure what went wrong and what has been corrected now


Anyways,

Finally, I got a rainbow welds and not nasty looking gray welds.

->but why am I getting blue tungston rod right away , I keep cleaning it but it turns blue right after i finish the pass.
all these practice was done at 10cfh and preflow was 1.5 seconds and post flow was at 2 seconds.

- > please let me know what else is needed to improve from this point thanks so much for your inputs.

 

[dogdog]

There is that old video from daps Wellington or something YouTuber that does these colorful welds, maybe get some clue from him.
As far as your gas bottles, just knowing furric some how just eats more gas. Dunno 10-15 cfh.

And dunno about bad gas, how you even going to proof that, I had a bottle like that once, gone in 30 minutes… it’s not like your lws going to admit anything. Good bad or anything else, most send in a batch to reload at a plant of something and don’t think they QC anything. It’s expensive here so…

 

[PCustoms]

I've never welded furric...

 

[handyman2020]

I've never welded furric...

glass cup then?

 

[PCustoms]

glass cup then?

Disregard, read that wrong while I was doing something and mind went wrong direction

 

[dogdog]

Disregard, read that wrong while I was doing something and mind went wrong direction

typing on phone is terrible. I have tried to remind the OP that using those gas lense and furric cups eats more gas than usual, people with those large bottles doesn't seems to mind, my 80CF one don't last too long.

 

[handyman2020]

typing on phone is terrible. I have tried to remind the OP that using those gas lense and furric cups eats more gas than usual, people with those large bottles doesn't seems to mind, my 80CF one don't last too long.

how come furick consumes more gas than glass cup? in the kit I got glass cup but I am figuring out how to put it with that thick rubber seal they supplied with cup so i practied with furcik but both furick and glass pyrex cup are exact same size in diameter.

 

[dogdog]

how come furick consumes more gas than glass cup? in the kit I got glass cup but I am figuring out how to put it with that thick rubber seal they supplied with cup so i practied with furcik but both furick and glass pyrex cup are exact same size in diameter.

I think their cups are larger than standard cups. Not too sure, when I tried the gas lenses with those screens, bottle drained pretty fast also have tried different gas regulators from the Miller Welds kits and from unknown brand flow ball style. The flow ball seems to last longer. So now it's permenant on. the machine.

I tried to find his other video, but seems to be deleted or my googlefoo is not great. swear I have seen it before. Dunno. I like this guy more, as far as welding contents, even if he looks like a serial killer with those glasses.

 

[rlitman]

...
->but why am I getting blue tungston rod right away , I keep cleaning it but it turns blue right after i finish the pass.
all these practice was done at 10cfh and preflow was 1.5 seconds and post flow was at 2 seconds...

Way too little post flow. Triple that to start (and you'll still want way more than that for the stainless). Your tungsten needs to just about completely cool down within the argon if you don't want it to turn color. The tungsten is generally the first thing to cool, so if your tungsten is turning blue, you've got nowhere near enough post flow protecting the weld bead. On mild steel for stuff where FCAW is good enough, you can get away with as little as 5 seconds post flow in many cases, and just keep it shielded until the glow is pretty dim. On stainless, you're going to need quite a bit more, and the hand follow-through discipline to keep the argon on the cooling bead.

 

[dogdog]

I think the formula for post flow is a second for every 10 amps pre-flow I just step on the paddle before start welding and let it purge the air out first, if it is something sitting for a while