Garage with a loft - drawings & pics?

[diiulio]

I am looking at a detached 20'x20' garage that needs to be knocked down and rebuilt. I'd like to bump the size to 24'x24', but I'd also like to see if I can get permitted for a 24'x30'.
Any size I go with I plan on going with a bedroom and bathroom above for guests. The last house we had I was only able to build a 12'x24' garage so that is what I did. It was filled, I had rafters filled, workbenches packed, tools hanging from rafters, etc. I know the bigger the better.

So... what is the most efficient size that you have come across, I am thinking the 24'x30' which will depend on the town. Thoughts on the size?

Anybody have any drawings or pictures of garage/loft space they can share? I am in upstate NY so I will design footers to have be a min. of 4' for frost line. I do plan on having a car lift down the road, so the first floor height needs to be high - I haven't looked at what this minimum height is yet. I have a couple of welders and 220v compressor and other various tools. Plan is for a 100amp subpanel from the house main. Plenty of 110v outlets and enough 220v outlets for equipment. I also have a Yuasa (Bridgeport knock-off) vertical mill that will go in there too.

I have read through a bunch of the carriage house threads and really would like to go that route. I'd like to hear of any opinions from those who have built them and their recommendations. I would like the stairs external to the garage area so people visiting are not tramping through the garage/work area.

 

[Cyberbear]

Try to find a floor plan that uses an outside covered stairs to keep the weather off when necessary. Also, use a 150 amp service, you'll be glad you did and the extra cost is minimal, especially if you opt for all electric appliances in the upstairs living area.

 

[Gerald O]

See my 24x32 with loft build thread.

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=200759
It's attached to the house with a 4x8 mudroom that can be deleted if you want detached.
Stairs are inside but it would be easy to add a partition wall with door to separate the stairwell.

 

[diiulio]

Gerald O, that is a great thread, thanks!

 

[theoldwizard1]

To get the most usable space, you want a gambrel roof. Common called a "barn roof".

IMHO, the most "pleasing" style has a height at the "knee" of 1/4 of the total span.

If you live in a city, there frequently are codes that limit how high you can build.

 

[KDXSR5]

Have you seen the barnplans.com website? I have never used them, but it looks like they offer something right up your alley if you like the gambrel truss design.

 

[twertsy]

I am looking at a detached 20'x20' garage that needs to be knocked down and rebuilt. I'd like to bump the size to 24'x24', but I'd also like to see if I can get permitted for a 24'x30'.
Any size I go with I plan on going with a bedroom and bathroom above for guests. The last house we had I was only able to build a 12'x24' garage so that is what I did. It was filled, I had rafters filled, workbenches packed, tools hanging from rafters, etc. I know the bigger the better.

So... what is the most efficient size that you have come across, I am thinking the 24'x30' which will depend on the town. Thoughts on the size?

Anybody have any drawings or pictures of garage/loft space they can share? I am in upstate NY so I will design footers to have be a min. of 4' for frost line. I do plan on having a car lift down the road, so the first floor height needs to be high - I haven't looked at what this minimum height is yet. I have a couple of welders and 220v compressor and other various tools. Plan is for a 100amp subpanel from the house main. Plenty of 110v outlets and enough 220v outlets for equipment. I also have a Yuasa (Bridgeport knock-off) vertical mill that will go in there too.

I have read through a bunch of the carriage house threads and really would like to go that route. I'd like to hear of any opinions from those who have built them and their recommendations. I would like the stairs external to the garage area so people visiting are not tramping through the garage/work area.

That's pretty funny!! Pics 2 and 3.....we almost bought that house!

 

[MushCreek]

+1 on barnplans.com. I built my 28 X 48 to their plans. It's worth a stroll of their site to get ideas.

 

[diiulio]

I looked through Barnplans, but they are barn plans. I am looking more for a style more similar to what I attached.

twertsy - that is funny. I actually just moved from Alexandria up to Saratoga Springs, NY. Spent some time over in Woodbridge.

 

[Stuart in MN]

There have been a couple recent garages with second floor rooms posted in the gallery section in recent months, scroll through there and you should be able to find a few.

Some time ago I made this post: http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3539

My dad was a high school shop teacher for many years. He went to college back in the early 1930s; I found this garage plan in one of his college drafting class textbooks and thought people here would find it interesting. It's set up with living quarters for the chauffeur on the second floor.

In that thread, another person posted a link to another old book with more similar plans for garages, take a look at that one - there are some pretty cool old garages in it.

 

[ddawg16]

This is my 2-story garage....

In order to keep it close to the property line I had to keep the height under 15'.



More pics in the link in my signature

 

[diiulio]

Alright,
I was able to draw up some plans for the garage. I am not done, but pretty close. Not all details are worked out yet. I haven't addressed plumbing layout, electrical panel location, if the town will allow external stairs, rafter design, and window sizing.
Let me know if you have any good input or constructive criticism. I am not an architect so let me know if you see something that doesn't look right.

DRAWINGS REMOVED. LET ME KNOW IF YOU WANT THEM AND I CAN MSG THEM TO YOU

 

[RocketScott]

If you have a good truss company you can probably do the upstairs with attic trusses on each end, regular floor in the middle, and then trusses on the upper. Otherwise you will need a big beam for the ridge.

I did a garage years ago that was similar. I ended up moving the gable walls out so trusses would work front to back. It gave them more room upstairs while looking the same from the street. The staircase was inside and wasn't really going to work the way it was drawn.

 

[diiulio]

That looks good. What is the pitch of your roof? It looks like 4/12.
Do you have any pics of the framing inside? What are the dimensions of the garage?

 

[bowhuntr311]

So I dont have any pics of my shop yet on here but its pretty basic. I did a 40x40x10. I wanted to make sure I was able to use all available space so I put in 6 vaulted rafters so I could put in a 10foot tall door in the center. Then after that I put in "bonus room" trusses. I was able to sit down with the guy that designed my trusses and say its simply for storage and watched him create the design on the a CAD program. The room measures something like 8x7'7 or something odd. It didnt matter what the exact size was I just wanted a room. First thing I did after that was reach into the rafters from the room and build a shelf in the rafters. My rafters are all 24" OC but I have shelves run the full length on the "outside" of the room. I have a full set of stairs going up there aswell and will eventually put a door at the top and close off the ceiling/attic so I can heat the shop.

 

[diiulio]

Ok, so work started.

Step 1. Demo Existing garage.
Basically I emptied the garage which took a long time and trips to my storage unit. I also had to cut a tree down that was growing into the corner of the garage. Unfortunately my chain saw blade was shot and I was out of bar oil. So I cut it down with a hand saw and cut it into 18" logs, all by hand. I was tired after that one. I should have went and bought bar oil and sharpener. Lesson learned.

Then I ordered a dumpster, had it delivered Friday morning while I was at work. Saturday after taking my boys to their soccer practice I started the demo, at approximately 11am. I cut the roof into thirds with a sawzall. Then I cut all the joists on one side of the support. Nothing happening. Cut the walls into thirds vertically. Nothing happened. Pulled all of the middle supports out. Nothing happened. I was able to pry the middle portion of the wall and roof down by using a burke bar and pulling with my weight. Nothing else would drop. At that point I put a strap to the middle of the two garage doors and tied it to my truck, at that point I slowly drove away. That collapses the front. More sawzall until the pieces were small enough for me to fit into a 20CY dumpster. I stacked the roof sections vertically. Shingles, sheathing, joists all in one piece. I gave the walls to someone on Craigslist for free because he wanted the cedar shake on them. I sold the roll up door for like $60 on Craigslist. I paid $325 for the dumpster.

So, all in I had the garage demo'd in about 5 hours by myself. It took a few hours on Sunday to clean up and organize the dumpster a little bit. The dumpster was picked up Monday morning.

Pretty good weekend.

Here are pictures of pre-demo

View media item 72379
View media item 72382
View media item 72383
View media item 72384

 

[diiulio]

Here are the pics of pulling the interior sheeting which was not drywall. Of course I found tons of bees nests, spiders, and rat/squirrel nests.

View media item 72376
View media item 72368
Roof sections cut and a vertical cut:
View media item 72375
Middle section pulled out by my truck:
View media item 72373
View media item 72386
View media item 72364
View media item 72387
View media item 72388

 

[diiulio]

So, I had someone excavate it for me. Basically 24' x 32' x 4' wide and 4' deep. It was all sand it took about 5 hours. I came home from work on a Thursday and it was done.

View media item 72389
View media item 72371
So, that Saturday it rained most of the day and I couldn't get much done. Sunday I knocked out getting layout down, and putting the footer form work in. I drove round grade stakes, 2x2 wooden stakes, then set a 2x4 along the bottom level all the way around outside. Then set the inside 2x4 level to the outside. After that I went around and stacked a 2x6 on top of that. Double checked the top of that and was within 1/4" according to the laser level and rod/receiver.

Then ******* two #4 bars around the base, 3" off the ground, bent up #4 verts every 4'. Then put a 2x4 spreader across the top of the forms.

View media item 72390

View media item 72360
View media item 72361
After I got the forming done I made a little time for dinner with the family.
View media item 72358

 

[diiulio]

Poured 6CY of 3ksi concrete Thursday at 4pm and finished at 4:45pm. I sprayed form release on the forms about 2 hours before the pour and sprayed water on the subgrade before concrete showed up. I had two neighbors (one of which is a mason) and a mason apprentice help me. It was all tailgated with a 10' chute extension.

View media item 72365
View media item 72363
Forms stripped on Saturday morning, two days after pour. Concrete looks good.
View media item 72392
View media item 72393
View media item 72394
Here are the hand sets in place ready to be set to pour the 4' high stem wall.

View media item 72395
View media item 72396
The forms were delivered Friday (the day after the footer pour) and I stripped Saturday morning. Then as I was assembling the first corner piece I realized they gave me the wrong wedge bolts to get the bolts together. So, I was not able to assemble any forms this weekend. Here are the wrong wedge bolts, see they are too long and the notch is too far away. Wait until Monday for the right ones.

View media item 72359
The wedge bolt needs to be 'wedged' against the form to hold it. Here it is almost an inch away.

View media item 72362
And a gratuitous shot of me operating the drone since I didn't have wedge bolts. I did start digging across the middle of the excavation though so I can pull a tape across to check that it is square.

View media item 72397

 

[machsnell]

Nice work it's coming along. What drone is that. Those aerial shots are awesome

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 

[diiulio]

It's coming along ok. I am a one man show with two young kids so I am not making crazy progress, but progress none the less. I am using a DJI Phantom 4. It is pretty awesome. Photos and video are amazing.

I was rained out today so no progress on the forms, but I did get the right wedge bolts for the forms. Hopefully tomorrow I can get some up.

Nice work it's coming along. What drone is that. Those aerial shots are awesome

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 

[larry4406]

Ambitious project! In my area we put a keyway in the top of the footing for the walls to lock into.

Looks like you went to great effort to make the top of the footer forms level so you could screed across. Here they use tall form boards, chalk line the inside and pound grade pins inside about every 8' and use a 2x4 with handles attached to level the footers to the chalk lines and the grade pins (saves effort with the forms).

 

[diiulio]

Larry,
I see you are in Northern VA. I moved here last year from Alexandria, VA. I was there for about 5 years. I was on the Blue Plains Tunnel project. Great area.

I have seen it done with grade in the forms also, but you have to set grade sooner or later. Either in the form or on the form. My excavation was fairly level, so I took advantage and made screeding easier.

 

[The Tool Tyrant]

Looking good Jason! Great to have neighbors in the trades! Keep the progress photos coming.

 

[diiulio]

I was able to get three outside walls setup of form work. I had to dig across the middle of the excavation in an 'X' so I could pull tape to verify square. I had to shift the forms over 1.5" because my footer was just slightly out of square. I knew this may happen and fortunately I over sized my footer by a few inches to allow this wiggle room.

Unfortunately it is going to rain the next couple of days and this weekend I have company so I will most likely not get much time to work on it, but I will try to sneak some time in.

Here are some shots:
View media item 72398
View media item 72399
View media item 72400
View media item 72401

 

[diiulio]

All ready to pour.
Panels are mostly 2' wide x 4' high. Used a 20" panel in each wall inside and out and a 14" panel on the ends of the outside wall. Only one side of the panels was nailed down to the footer with a duplex nail in each panel and two nails in each corner panel.

I used a double 2x4 waler with a bracket on every panel. I was only required to use a waler on the outside, but I opted to add it to the inside because the panels didn't lay out straight. I know the concrete may straighten them out when placed inside from it's weight, but I didn't want to chance it.

There were 2 ties at every panel, 1' from the bottom and 1' from the top. Wedge anchors at those two locations only except for corners, all anchors used in the corners, every 6".

I placed a kicker every 6.5 - 8 feet on center, screwed to the waler, screwed to a 2x4 that was screwed to a grade stake. This helps straighten out wall and making it plumb.

View media item 72402
View media item 72403
View media item 72372

 

[diiulio]

I used a trailer pump and approximately 10.5 CY. Placed it in under two hours with myself, my friend, and help from the pump operator. It went well, no issues. Three walls were pumped and the front wall we tail gated as the pump operator cleaned up and broke down hose.

I used a 4ksi pumpable mix with NYSDOT #1 stone. I placed finishing nails in the form where I wanted the pour to finish to. I also snapped a chalk line, that was fairly useless. I did see the chalk line at the very top of the concrete though after I pulled the forms.

Here's the trailer pump.
View media item 72404
Here is starting the pour in the corner.
View media item 72354
Screeding as we go.
View media item 72369
Here we stopped pumping and starting tail gating. I didn't vibrate this corner and ended up with a very minor spot that I will have to sack and patch. I was caught up in getting the top of the pour at the right elevation plus I had worked all day before I got home to pour so I was probably starting to get wore out.

View media item 72405

 

[diiulio]

I poured Friday at 4pm, actually didn't start until 4:50 because the concrete was 50 minutes late. I paid about $130/hour for the pump, but wasn't charged for the hour of delay. Concrete was about $100/CY.

I started stripping forms on Sunday at about 10am.

Back wall
View media item 72406
Inside of back wall
View media item 72351
Left wall
View media item 72352
I pulled the front wall forms, but no picture. I have yet to pull the right wall forms. Probably later this week.

 

[LB-1911]

Your rolling now, best of luck as you move forward.

 

[diiulio]

I have the ties broken off and plugged with cement/water paste.
View media item 72407
Rented a vibratory plate compactor and excavator for backfill and compacting.
View media item 72346
Every 6" I would run the compactor. Just marked the wall with a marker every 8' with 6" marks. Fill it up, run the compactor, fill it up, run the compactor.
View media item 72408
This is what I was looking at Saturday and Sunday for most of the day.
View media item 72344
All backfilled and compacted. Need to clean it up a little bit, but it is there.
View media item 72350

 

[diiulio]

I'll have to go back and fix the old pics, but here is some updates...

Installed 1" poly line for water from inside basement back to garage. Continuous, no splices, and 5' below grade.
View media item 73144
Installed 4" Sched 40 PVC sewer line to the clay lateral on my property back to my garage. Sloped 1/4" per 1'. Installed a clean out about 30' from the tie in. Two risers in the garage.
View media item 73131View media item 73132
Backfilled the plumbing after inspector signed off on pressure tests. 4" of 1-2" stone for slab base.
View media item 73133
I installed a 2" conduit from the house to the garage for wire at about 2' down.

 

[diiulio]

Laid down 6 mil poly and 6x6 10ga mesh.
View media item 73142
Concrete on-site
View media item 73134
Quick time lapse of the pour:

Concrete poured
View media item 73135

 

[diiulio]

Sawcut the 4-5" deep slab with an inch cut in a pattern we agreed to.
1st story lumber delivered!
View media item 73136
Laid out the sole and top plates Saturday morning and then went for a mountain bike ride in the afternoon to clear my head.
View media item 73137
Sunday I framed up the walls.
View media item 73138
TIME LAPSE OF THIS PAST SUNDAY - missed the first two hours and last hour, but you get the idea.

...

...

And a Bird's eye view
View media item 73143

 

[diiulio]

Had barn raising party with a bunch of friends on Wednesday after work.
Getting wall 1 up, 24' long, 2x6 framing, 12' tall.
View media item 73139
Three braces is enough for the wall.
View media item 73140
Three walls up, one to go.
View media item 73141
TIME LAPSE OF THE BARN RAISING...

I will try to keep up with posting here, but not sure if anyone is even following.

 

[Gerald O]

Good progress, great pictures. Keep going!

 

[Fandango]

Very cool! Keep it up.

 

[M-technik-3]

What plans did you go with? I missed that one I think. Moving along nicely at this point I imagine your getting excited.

 

[karlhungus]

Curious how you checked the footing for square without being able to measure corner to corner? I ran into that problem with my shed build and ended up going out at night with a tile laser. It actually got me very close. Great work, cant wait to see more.

 

[diiulio]

I checked square with the 3-4-5 method. I did a 6' length along one wall, 8' on the other and then a 10' hypotenuse.

The other thing you could do is take a 4' x 8' sheet of plywood and cut off a 2' x 6' rectangle out of the corner of the sheet. Take the 4' x 8' 'L' you have left down in the trench and pull strings off of that. The legs will be 2' wide of the 4' x 8' L.

I was off a little bit with the 3-4-5 method, but I made it a few inches wider so it wasn't an issue.

 

[diiulio]

So, after a couple of weeks off due to vacation and other projects around the house I was able to get back at it this weekend. I got the joists up for the second floor. I went against the advice of an extremely knowledgeable person on here and didn't push the joists up from the one side with a support across the middle and then stand them up like was recommended. It would have been quicker his way, but I was having a hard time pushing these joists up to the 12' wall and then sliding them all the way across. It would have been too difficult for me working alone.

So, I made a jig for three joists. I made three 3-1/2" x 16" tall slots spaced 16" on center on a piece of 3/4" plywood I had laying around. Then I used three screws to hold it in place. I would pick up one end of the joist, flip it into the slot, slide it up, then walk the other end up the ladder and nail it down. Rinse, repeat a bunch more times. Don't forget to place material across the tops of them every 8' so they stay standing up when you go to get up on them to lay the decking.

Between Saturday and Sunday I was able to finish line and plumb the walls and get 95% of the joists up. I have 3 joists left where the stairs go, but I am waiting on the column from my supplier before I can get those up. I also need to still go around and put up the rim board.

This is how I made sure the walls were straight. Put a piece of 2x at the corners and then ran string around. Then used a piece of 2x along the wall to move in or out.

View media item 73797

Step 1 - Get the joist into place
HERE IS THE VIDEO

Step 2 - Get the joist into the jig and set

HERE IS THE VIDEO THAT COUNTS

Get the end into the jig
View media item 73799
Half way point
View media item 73800
Step 3 - Rinse & Repeat
View media item 73801