Harbor Freight 1/2" Impact....Not impressed

[bcradio]

The average air consumption specs are entirely meaningless, the at load spec is the one that matters. IR's 1/2 gun uses 20 CFM at load. A 1" gun uses almost 50CFM...

Why do people regulate their compressors down? Most homeowners compressors aren't even capable of putting out what our shop air is regulated to.

Because consistent air pressure matters sometimes. Like when trying to set nails at a certain depth repeatedly.

 

[Red996]

The OP did exchange it once with the same result and I'm not trying to be a smart *** but this thread is about air pressure because that's what the OP's problem is. Probably nothing wrong with his impact, he just needs to feed that thing!

Okay. I'm just saying how many people have used this gun with standard industrial fittings and their pressure set at 90psi static, and do not have this problem? At least one for sure that I know of. So I don't think you need to change your fittings or crank up the pressure to 130 for the gun to work properly. The problem must lie elsewhere.

 

[Scimmia]

Okay. I'm just saying how many people have used this gun with standard industrial fittings and their pressure set at 90psi static, and do not have this problem? At least one for sure that I know of. So I don't think you need to change your fittings or crank up the pressure to 130 for the gun to work properly. The problem must lie elsewhere.

Depending on the hose and fittings used. The hose length makes a huge difference at these flow rates.

 

[boobag]

Okay. I'm just saying how many people have used this gun with standard industrial fittings and their pressure set at 90psi static, and do not have this problem? At least one for sure that I know of. So I don't think you need to change your fittings or crank up the pressure to 130 for the gun to work properly. The problem must lie elsewhere.

it sounds like you're giving advice, without actual experience.

like mentioned before, airflow is a huge issue for performance, especialy for tools that use a lot of air. which is why we crank up air pressure to compensate for flow loss. and running at only 90psi is low.

 

[Red996]

it sounds like you're giving advice, without actual experience.

like mentioned before, airflow is a huge issue for performance, especialy for tools that use a lot of air. which is why we crank up air pressure to compensate for flow loss. and running at only 90psi is low.

Just to be clear. I think this is the same gun I have, among a few. I used standard industrial fittings. The hose is on a reel, I havn't measured it, 30' maybe. Pressure is at 90 psi. The gun takes off lug nuts practically instantly. I did switch to v-style fittings but not because I was having a problem with lug nuts. I switched because sometimes certain crankshaft pulley bolts wouldn't come loose, the switch made no noticeable difference. I ended up getting a 3/4" gun to take care of that. I'm not saying that there isn't another problem, but I'm just trying to be helpful when I say that with 90psi and standard fittings the gun should remove lug nuts easily.

 

[azhatchback]

I bought one, threw it away. Didn't have the heart to sell it to someone else.

I received a HF stud welder from my wife 2 Christmas' ago. It was a POS out the gate. Was to late to return by the time I got around to using it and I didn't have the heart to try to sell it either! I trashed it and welded a set of vice grips on to the slide hammer for pulling odd stuff.

 

[justme-]

Is it possible the new earthquake isn't up to par with the old earthquake's legendary performance and there could lie some confusion?

I have the old one (ir231 clone) and it's great at 100psi regulated static on a 3cfm portable compressor. I've never heard about the psi rating being at operating at the tool or about any duty cycle for pneumatic tools. IME if a Pneumatic is going to fail at x pressure, it fails at x pressure.
could the Flexzilla line have a factor? I'm not sure, but I've read several comments on here about it being bad for impacts from it's inherent flex/pressure absorption.

FWIW - some may consider it semantics, but in point of fact pneumatics follow hydraulics principles, pressure is created by resistance in the system. small hose adds resistance, thus pressure. restrictive couplers reduce flow, thus add resistance and create pressure.

 

[pipsters]

Is it possible the new earthquake isn't up to par with the old earthquake's legendary performance and there could lie some confusion?

I have the old one (ir231 clone) and it's great at 100psi regulated static on a 3cfm portable compressor. I've never heard about the psi rating being at operating at the tool or about any duty cycle for pneumatic tools. IME if a Pneumatic is going to fail at x pressure, it fails at x pressure.
could the Flexzilla line have a factor? I'm not sure, but I've read several comments on here about it being bad for impacts from it's inherent flex/pressure absorption.

FWIW - some may consider it semantics, but in point of fact pneumatics follow hydraulics principles, pressure is created by resistance in the system. small hose adds resistance, thus pressure. restrictive couplers reduce flow, thus add resistance and create pressure.

Run correctly it's a bit stronger than the old one, and quite a bit lighter.

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=115628

The HF Earthquake smoked my 2135TImax using the same pressure, hose, and fittings, I set it to around 100 psi with the trigger pulled. You'll get some loss in the line and quick connect fittings.

$70 vs. $250+ too, it's a no brainer.

 

[boobag]

Just to be clear. I think this is the same gun I have, among a few. I used standard industrial fittings. The hose is on a reel, I havn't measured it, 30' maybe. Pressure is at 90 psi. The gun takes off lug nuts practically instantly. I did switch to v-style fittings but not because I was having a problem with lug nuts. I switched because sometimes certain crankshaft pulley bolts wouldn't come loose, the switch made no noticeable difference. I ended up getting a 3/4" gun to take care of that. I'm not saying that there isn't another problem, but I'm just trying to be helpful when I say that with 90psi and standard fittings the gun should remove lug nuts easily.

its possible your gun has a smaller air motor inside, which requires less cfm.
regardless, the op has nothing to lose by just cranking up the pressure to see if that helps.

 

[wild cowboy]

Is it possible the new earthquake isn't up to par with the old earthquake's legendary performance and there could lie some confusion?

No, I have the new one, it's a beast, just like the old ones!

 

[azhatchback]

Is it possible the new earthquake isn't up to par with the old earthquake's legendary performance and there could lie some confusion?

I have the old one (ir231 clone) and it's great at 100psi regulated static on a 3cfm portable compressor. I've never heard about the psi rating being at operating at the tool or about any duty cycle for pneumatic tools. IME if a Pneumatic is going to fail at x pressure, it fails at x pressure.
could the Flexzilla line have a factor? I'm not sure, but I've read several comments on here about it being bad for impacts from it's inherent flex/pressure absorption.

FWIW - some may consider it semantics, but in point of fact pneumatics follow hydraulics principles, pressure is created by resistance in the system. small hose adds resistance, thus pressure. restrictive couplers reduce flow, thus add resistance and create pressure.

Very well said. If you spring a leak the system will flow will go up. Some guys try to go to big on PVC line on sprinklers thinking their sprinklers will work better. This is not always the case as it will reduce your pressure due to greater flow, less resistance.

We run flow meters at work along with PSI regulators for gasses. I was having an issues with a nitrogen system that needed to have 90 PSI. I was not getting 90 PSI but I was getting plenty of flow. Guy I was working with kept telling me. "it has a restriction change the filter". I argued with him that we had a leak. He finally told me, "this ain't your typical POS ford". It pissed me off because I like fords and I grabbed the rubber hose after the flow meter and ripped the SOB off the socket and regulator PSI dropped out and flow meter pegged out. I kindly asked him if he still thought we had a restriction This is also why CFM goes up as you regulate the PSI down.

 

[azhatchback]

Z28 You got more compressor than I do and looks like you have had 3 tools that should be able to rip lugs off with no issues. Check your system for pressure issues. I have never used a flexzilla hose but I did buy some real nice good year hoses at harbor freight when they had them that are light, and don't get hard in the cold or at least in my non insulated garage when weather is below 30! This flexzilla with it's flexing properties may be unable to maintain a solid enough structure allowing your PSI to fluctuate. Never used one before but just a thought.

I am no expert when it comes to air tools but I would think an impact relies on PSI over CFM. I would put a gauge down stream where your tool plugs in and see if you are getting enough PSI. I am not sure what min is to run these things but I do know at 40 PSI where I have max CFM, somewhere around 7.2 CFM off the top of my head. My 1/2 IR Ti works but it definitely slows down. It's not zippy. This tells me that the tool relies heavily on PSI not CFM as an air gun or paint gun that needs flow. I could be wrong this is just my thinking. I am not an engineer.

I have worked and still work for the last 18 years on gas, vacuum, and pneumatic systems for a living, not the kind of pneumatic devices we are talking about here but actuation systems such as valves, solenoids, etc... that are controlled by gasses and what not. Big nasty industrial junk.

It's really important that you set your compressor at the specs the tool at the other end requires. Specs can concentrate around flow (CFM) or PSI or a mix of both as in my situation at work. For your issue I would be looking at PSI and easiest way to troubleshoot this is to measure pressure at your exit. This will tell you whats going on.

I don't want to get into a ******* match over what I have written but this is a interesting thread and please keep us up to date as you troubleshoot the issue. I am always willing to learn just like everyone else

 

[wild cowboy]

it's funny, people who never took fluid dynamics in school, think that with that water hose in their hand, spraying off their driveway, that by putting their thumb over the end of the hose, they get more pressure to power off the heavy stuff. But actually, they just got less pressure and more velocity!

This is the basic principle of how your home or car's A/C system works, and why air tools get cold during hard use, rather than hot.

The Bernoulli principle in action, aka the venturi effect.

 

[azhatchback]

I think you might want to revisit your fluid and pneumatic pressure theory, because there are multiple things wrong with what you have just stated. Imagine a water hose with a partially open nozzle on the end just laying in the yard. Turn the water on a little bit. That is equivalent to having a little pressure in the hose. You will get a small flow of water out the end of the hose. Turn the water way up and you will get a lot more water spraying forcefully out the end of the hose. As pressure goes up so does flow if everything else is held constant.

The sprinkler system analogy is in error as well. The main water lines feeding your neighborhood are at the same water pressure as the 1/2" sprinkler line in your lawn if the system is designed well and running efficiently. Increasing the diameter of the buried sprinkler pipe does not decrease system pressure at all, if anything it allows the pressure to stay more equal throughout the system over long distances due to there being minimal system flow pressure losses. An ideal sprinkler system setup can be done two ways. Make the main lines so large that individual sprinklers squirting off some of the water is only a trivial loss of water compared to what the line can handle. The other more economical option is to have main lines that get smaller in diameter every few sprinkler heads in the branch runs so that the pressure and water velocity in the system stays constant even as water volume leaves the system through individual heads. If the pipes weren't periodically reduced in diameter the first couple sprinkler heads would bleed off some of the water pressure and heads further down the line would have less remaining water pressure causing them to have a weak spray pattern.

Last but not least, CFM does not go up as you regulate the PSI down. CFM goes up as you lessen the resistance to flow aka open up the nozzle more at the end of a hose, and CFM goes up as pressure increases in a fixed system. If you have a really burly compressor with very large diameter piping you might be able to partially open a ball valve at a drain point and see almost no drop in the main line pressure, because the compressor easily makes up for the loss in real time.

The bottom line for the OP is that if he can make sure he has good pressure at the tool when it is running and it still does not take off lug nuts then there is something wrong with the tool and he needs to return it. If he can't get enough pressure at the tool while it is running then the tool might still be perfectly fine, but it just does not work well with the system he has. In that case he would have to make modifications to his system and system plumbing or else return the impact wrench and replace it with another impact wrench that is more efficient at converting air pressure and flow into impact force.

Thank you for explaining this. Wouldn't there be a point where you can have more flow and less PSI as in your garden hose example? I would think with a valve closed, no flow you would have max PSI at the other end with no flow. Am I thinking about this incorrectly?

When I was a kid if we put a nozzle on the end of the hose and open the valve at the wall the hose would whip like mad. Take that nozzle off and the hose just pours out. Does this have to do with more release of pressure but still restrictive enough to cause this action. I not sure if I am fully understanding. This is interesting. Can you explain more. Better yet can you PM me so we don't side track this thread? This is good stuff!

I think in the end we can agree that he needs to test the end of the system to see if there is a problem. Sorry for any bad info I posted.

 

[azhatchback]

it's funny, people who never took fluid dynamics in school, think that with that water hose in their hand, spraying off their driveway, that by putting their thumb over the end of the hose, they get more pressure to power off the heavy stuff. But actually, they just got less pressure and more velocity!

This is the basic principle of how your home or car's A/C system works, and why air tools get cold during hard use, rather than hot.

The Bernoulli principle in action, aka the venturi effect.

This is interesting. I am sorry I did not know this. The issue I was trouble shooting that I spoke of did go to a device that I was told crated a Bernoulli effect. Thanks for setting me straight. I will have to study up on this.

 

[jeremy v]

Thank you for explaining this. Wouldn't there be a point where you can have more flow and less PSI as in your garden hose example? I would think with a valve closed, no flow you would have max PSI at the other end with no flow. Am I thinking about this incorrectly?

When I was a kid if we put a nozzle on the end of the hose and open the valve at the wall the hose would whip like mad. Take that nozzle off and the hose just pours out. Does this have to do with more release of pressure but still restrictive enough to cause this action. I not sure if I am fully understanding. This is interesting. Can you explain more. Better yet can you PM me so we don't side track this thread? This is good stuff!

I think in the end we can agree that he needs to test the end of the system to see if there is a problem. Sorry for any bad info I posted.

If you have the water turned on at the house and the sprayer at the end of the hose completely shut you will have max pressure inside the hose. If you begin to turn on the hose sprayer the pressure within the hose itself will begin to drop, but that is only because the incoming house water line is having a hard time keeping up. If the same hose nozzle was installed on the end of a 6" diameter garden hose that was fed directly from a water tower you will have the exact same initial static pressure in the hose when the nozzle at the end is turned off, but when you turn the nozzle on fully the pressure in the 6" hose will largely remain unchanged or only drop a minimal amount because it is so easy and efficient for the water tower to replace the water that is leaving the system. So the pressure drop you will see in the hose when air or water is flowing through it depends completely on how efficiently air or water can replace what is being lost from the system. In a compressed air system if the hose is larger diameter the air can more quickly and easily replace air being lost from the system at the impact wrench when it is running so you will have less pressure drop through the system.

In regards to something like a fire hose whipping around you are dealing with the Bernoulli principle combined with the equation force = mass x acceleration. As you restrict the end of a fire hose the velocity of the water accelerates greatly (according to the Bernoulli principle) so this creates a net force on the end of the hose causing it to whip around in reaction to that force. When the hose is just laying there wide open the water does not change velocity when it exits the hose so the force equation would be force = mass x 0 which equals nothing so the hose does not whip around.

 

[azhatchback]

If you have the water turned on at the house and the sprayer at the end of the hose completely shut you will have max pressure inside the hose. If you begin to turn on the hose sprayer the pressure within the hose itself will begin to drop, but that is only because the incoming house water line is having a hard time keeping up. If the same hose nozzle was installed on the end of a 6" diameter garden hose that was fed directly from a water tower you will have the exact same initial static pressure in the hose when the nozzle at the end is turned off, but when you turn the nozzle on fully the pressure in the 6" hose will largely remain unchanged or only drop a minimal amount because it is so easy and efficient for the water tower to replace the water that is leaving the system. So the pressure drop you will see in the hose when air or water is flowing through it depends completely on how efficiently air or water can replace what is being lost from the system. In a compressed air system if the hose is larger diameter the air can more quickly and easily replace air being lost from the system at the impact wrench when it is running so you will have less pressure drop through the system.

In regards to something like a fire hose whipping around you are dealing with the Bernoulli principle combined with the equation force = mass x acceleration. As you restrict the end of a fire hose the velocity of the water accelerates greatly (according to the Bernoulli principle) so this creates a net force on the end of the hose causing it to whip around in reaction to that force. When the hose is just laying there wide open the water does not change velocity when it exits the hose so the force equation would be force = mass x 0 which equals nothing so the hose does not whip around.

I really appreciate you taking the time to explain this. I will look up additional readings on fluid dynamics. This sounds like it could really help me in future trouble shooting at work and home. Thank you!

 

[550_cord]

I'm getting great science lessons here. OP should just get a Milwaukee electric impact and not worry about the air any longer.

 

[bob15]

Oh no, don't say that. If he switches to an electric impact we are going to have to start a whole new conversation about extension cord length, wire gauge, and voltage drop to determine if his electric impact wrench is working as it should or if the electric motor is being choked by his wiring.

LOL

 

[blackedout12v]

Lol, so...pressure doesn't drop with flow? Better go try it for yourself. Trust me, the setup I use at work is plenty adequate and then some. At 90 psi static pressure it's a noticeable drop in performance.

yes pressure can drop with flow. pressure is only a measure of resistance. a pressure drop is only indicative of using more cfm than the amount of cfm capable of being delivered.

 

[dnschmidt]

Why argue when you can prove it. Simply walk over to the regulator and watch the pressure gauge when you pull the trigger. I have a huge compressor (Quincy) and when I trigger my AirCat 1250K impact the pressure drops from 120 to 90 using Milton V fittings and 3/8" line. No reason for you to take my word for it as Nike says: "JUST DO IT."

 

[blackedout12v]

if the compressor ,regulator,air line,and fittings can flow more cfm than the gun can use then the gun becomes the restriction and pressure loss at the gun would be minimal at best. even with a static pressure setting.

 

[blackedout12v]

Very well said. If you spring a leak the system will flow will go up. Some guys try to go to big on PVC line on sprinklers thinking their sprinklers will work better. This is not always the case as it will reduce your pressure due to greater flow, less resistance.

We run flow meters at work along with PSI regulators for gasses. I was having an issues with a nitrogen system that needed to have 90 PSI. I was not getting 90 PSI but I was getting plenty of flow. Guy I was working with kept telling me. "it has a restriction change the filter". I argued with him that we had a leak. He finally told me, "this ain't your typical POS ford". It pissed me off because I like fords and I grabbed the rubber hose after the flow meter and ripped the SOB off the socket and regulator PSI dropped out and flow meter pegged out. I kindly asked him if he still thought we had a restriction This is also why CFM goes up as you regulate the PSI down.

this is mostly inaccurate , and opposite of the truth

 

[blackedout12v]

I think you might want to revisit your fluid and pneumatic pressure theory, because there are multiple things wrong with what you have just stated. Imagine a water hose with a partially open nozzle on the end just laying in the yard. Turn the water on a little bit. That is equivalent to having a little pressure in the hose. You will get a small flow of water out the end of the hose. Turn the water way up and you will get a lot more water spraying forcefully out the end of the hose. As pressure goes up so does flow if everything else is held constant.

The sprinkler system analogy is in error as well. The main water lines feeding your neighborhood are at the same water pressure as the 1/2" sprinkler line in your lawn if the system is designed well and running efficiently. Increasing the diameter of the buried sprinkler pipe does not decrease system pressure at all, if anything it allows the pressure to stay more equal throughout the system over long distances due to there being minimal system flow pressure losses. An ideal sprinkler system setup can be done two ways. Make the main lines so large that individual sprinklers squirting off some of the water is only a trivial loss of water compared to what the line can handle. The other more economical option is to have main lines that get smaller in diameter every few sprinkler heads in the branch runs so that the pressure and water velocity in the system stays constant even as water volume leaves the system through individual heads. If the pipes weren't periodically reduced in diameter the first couple sprinkler heads would bleed off some of the water pressure and heads further down the line would have less remaining water pressure causing them to have a weak spray pattern.

Last but not least, CFM does not go up as you regulate the PSI down. CFM goes up as you lessen the resistance to flow aka open up the nozzle more at the end of a hose, and CFM goes up as pressure increases in a fixed system. If you have a really burly compressor with very large diameter piping you might be able to partially open a ball valve at a drain point and see almost no drop in the main line pressure, because the compressor easily makes up for the loss in real time.

The bottom line for the OP is that if he can make sure he has good pressure at the tool when it is running and it still does not take off lug nuts then there is something wrong with the tool and he needs to return it. If he can't get enough pressure at the tool while it is running then the tool might still be perfectly fine, but it just does not work well with the system he has. In that case he would have to make modifications to his system and system plumbing or else return the impact wrench and replace it with another impact wrench that is more efficient at converting air pressure and flow into impact force.

this is very well said and explained, and 100% accurate..good job

 

[Kev442]

My HF earthquake has a dial for 1-5. Mine is set at 2 and has never had an issue with a lugnut @ 100psi at the tank.
My old Bluepoint was run on a 2hp 11 gallon compressor, was tired as hell, and only failed to remove about 5 lugnuts total in ten years of use.

 

[wild cowboy]

Oh no, don't say that. If he switches to an electric impact we are going to have to start a whole new conversation about extension cord length, wire gauge, and voltage drop to determine if his electric impact wrench is working as it should or if the electric motor is being choked by his wiring.

please don't get me started on wire gauge!

 

[fury9]

 

[Black_Z28]

Ok, so this thread went overboard.

Anyways, issue has been corrected. And the gun works great. I upped the pressure at the regulator, and hooked up a gauge at the gun. I was only getting around 70psi at the initial setting of 90psi at the regulator. So, I jacked up the psi, and tried it again. Gun works great.

Thanks for your help guys.

 

[stage20]

i did the easy method of running my gun wide open while looking at the regulator. it dropped from from 90 to 80 while running. i cranked it up till it was 90 running. just over 100 pounds of static pressure. i can for sure hear the zing in the gun and feel the difference of the kick in my hand hitting the trigger. wish i would have known this 20 years ago.

 

[unslow1]

I just leave my regulator set at 120psi. Paint guns and tools that matter have their own.

 

[Strouty]

please don't get me started on wire gauge!

No one wants that.

 

[redwrench60]

Any moment all the expert engineers in fluid and thermodynamics will chime in and inform us that the problem can't possibly be fixed and will lay out all manner of high dollar words and theories as to the real nature of the problem then argue with the guys that say "just turn up your air"

 

[stage20]

Any moment all the expert engineers in fluid and thermodynamics will chime in and inform us that the problem can't possibly be fixed and will lay out all manner of high dollar words and theories as to the real nature of the problem then argue with the guys that say "just turn up your air"

Oh yea. Engineers try to tell me how I do my job wrong all the time but in the end I always hear we had a plan change after the issue comes up and my work looks fine.

 

[Marlin]

Oh yea. Engineers try to tell me how I do my job wrong all the time but in the end I always hear we had a plan change after the issue comes up and my work looks fine.

I was about to chime in as an engineer that designs air tools but...........

 

[redwrench60]

I was about to chime in as an engineer that designs air tools but...........

Tag in anytime, Marlin. This thread coulda used you about 3 pages ago

 

[Leaky88]

China Freight is hit and miss. Sometimes I win, and sometimes I... . Leaky

 

[stage20]

I was about to chime in as an engineer that designs air tools but...........

It was a blanket statement. If you design air tools, I bet you now your stuff

 

[Arbybe]

Well, I went with what a lot of guys said on this forum, and got a Harbor Freight Earthquake 1/2" impact. I must say I'm very unimpressed with this thing. I have it hooked up to a 60 gal 3HP Puma with a Ingersoll Rand regulator and filter, set at 90psi. This is ran through a 3/8" flexzilla hose. So, I assume I'm getting plenty of air to the tool. But, I'm having issues with removing pretty lightly torqued lug nuts and nuts. It was having issues taking lugnuts off my truck that are torqued to 120 ft lbs. I used my ridgid 20v cordless impact and it took it off with no issues. This is the second impact I got from Harbor Freight. I returned the first one, because I thought it was a dud, and they happily exchanged it. Do I possibly have another dud....or was I just thinking this tool was going to be much better then it truly is?

I also got one of the Husky 1/2" that was on black Friday last year that also came with the 25' hose...and I would say they seem to have about the same amount of power.

Any help would be great.

Clean the vanes to make sure gravity pulls them out of their slots on the "loose"side
Of the spinning rotor.
Thin the grease just a bit in the hammer/anvil assembly
Make sure the rotor turns freely on the bearings.
To test. Leave the hammers and pins out and re-assemble with
Only cage and anvil spinning. This will distribute the lube and
Let you know everything is free inside.
Upping the air pressure will help,but not if the innards are clogged up.
Hope this is a help.
The Stickman knows.....
MHO.

 

[anndel]

I looked at one of these but went with the IR 2235TiMax instead.

 

[mdtaylorjr]

Read the manual that comes with the impact. It will tell you airflow requirements. Psi is only one factor CFM is a much bigger factor. What's your compressor flow rating at. Turning the regulator up also lowers CFM. I used to drill mt personal compressors out to run 3/8 fittings and 1/2 inch hose for more flow.