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Harbor Freight Tool Class Action

derosa

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HF is not the actual manufacturer of any of the items it sells. It just buys wholesale and sells at the retail level to the consumer.

I'm pretty sure that lots of their items if not all are the same items being made in the same factories or shops in China and sold by various other tool companies and on-line like Amazon, except under a different brand name and different colors.

So, why is it not reasonable for them to use a comparative pricing to those brands and offering their (HF) items at a 'Sale Price' with or without a HF dated coupon?

That's part of it, what brands are you comparing to and is it a valid comparison. Might be the same lines but not necessarily the same materials or QC. Yet by suggesting you can compare to X they're creating the possibly false view that it compares to something at the X price range. Are they comparing their prices, their quality or a mix of both. If they wanted a valid comparison they'd say to what like car companies will do. Instead they try to get slower thinkers jumping with inflated comparisons. As the creator of a rebadged item they should also be setting msrp to ascertain the actual value of an item, a sale and its comparison to a similarly priced item.
 
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egdede

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Since this is class action, all of us, or at lease those of us who live in California can get in on it too. The lawyers will make millions. The rest of us might get a 30% off coupon.

Yeah, but 30% off of what?
 

Motorman55

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That's part of it, what brands are you comparing to and is it a valid comparison. Might be the same lines but not necessarily the same materials or QC. Yet by suggesting you can compare to X they're creating the possibly false view that it compares to something at the X price range. Are they comparing their prices, their quality or a mix of both. If they wanted a valid comparison they'd say to what like car companies will do. Instead they try to get slower thinkers jumping with inflated comparisons. As the creator of a rebadged item they should also be setting msrp to ascertain the actual value of an item, a sale and its comparison to a similarly priced item.


IMO there's not much difference between any Made in China tools. I don't care if its a HF or Made in Taiwan (which is also China). If someone wants to spend more money for the same quality Chinese sockets or wrenches off of Amazon or another on-line Tool store because they have a different name, that's fine, its their money.

I'd just as well buy the HF tool which would in all likelihood be just as good and a hell of a lot less money. Plus If I should break their hand tool, I can just return it for another at the local HF store.

I prefer Made in USA on everything, but I live in the real world and know I have to sometimes compromise on the things I need because I have limited resources.
 

Motorman55

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Why is it that some guys think just because someone buys a tool from HF that somehow it makes them gullible or stupid? That somehow they've been fooled or tricked into buying a tool because of a printed HF advertisement or coupon.

Really?
 

BDT/NWMN

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I think the ad you are referring to says they spent millions on a testing facility in California to test everything they sell (which is true, they have a large warehouse and engineering facility where they do test a lot of the stuff they sell). There are a couple of videos about it too I believe, and since creating that facility, they have created the Pittsburgh Pro line, and have been bringing in some fantastic tools.

Also, harbor freight requires that manufacturers send extra tools so that they test them before selling the batch. So if they ordered 1000 ratchets, the manufacturer has to send 1,010 (just making the numbers up) so that HF can randomly test 10 of the ratchets at that facility.

I'd also say, that in the last several years, HF has improved dramatically and is now offering some very good tools (Pro ratchets and impact sockets, tool boxes). Still own very few things from them though.

Just a side note

The June issue of Road & Track has a HF ad that mentions spending millions on the test labs, and millions more in their factories.... Most likely production equipment vs real estate??
 

wrench409

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Quality isn't job one.

The welders cart I have has sheets of blue paint coming off of it due to no primer coat.

I'm in the process of stripping it in order to repaint it.
 

gungatim

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The June issue of Road & Track has a HF ad that mentions spending millions on the test labs, and millions more in their factories.... Most likely production equipment vs real estate??

it doesn't mean they own the factory's, it means when you source something and want your own level of quality or features, etc. YOU as the buyer pay for the tooling, any custom machines, dedicated lines, testers, your share of the labor and overhead, etc.

HF doesn't go to a mfgr on alibaba and say give me your stock tool and throw our package on it. some brands do, but I do not believe HF does for a fair amount of their hand tools. power tools especially the woodworking ones used to be stock but they have customized a lot of those as well. tooling for plastic cases and parts on power tools is not cheap. even overseas, each tool can be $30k, and YOU own them and pay for the maintenance, not the mfgr.

I have worked in the outsourcing business for a while, you cannot even import used equipment into Asia unless it is only slightly depreciated, and then they make you invest capital into their factories to offset. remember, it's not capitalism over there, the gov. runs industry and that is how they artificially stimulate their economy. India is the same way, except that they also make you hire x amount of workers whether you need them or not. that's why you see so many people standing around sweeping the dirt floors...
 

MDSPHOTO

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I have no issue with HF's marketing practices. It could be that the "Compare To Prices" are the MRSRP or prices the manufacturer of the tool sells it for, or would sell it, at retail.

At the end of the day this is a money grab for the lawyers who spend all day identifying companies they can sue who will ultimately settle our of court. In the end, the lawyers will make hundreds of thousands of dollars, the plantiff will get a couple hundred bucks and you and I will pay higher prices at their stores.
 

AmishFury

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That's an outright lie. The cash register automatically applies the discount to the highest priced item you bought.

Shakespeare had it right. GRRRRRRRRRR

he'll probably bring up a receipt with a jack, a compressor, a tool box, and plumbers tape
 

BDT/NWMN

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it doesn't mean they own the factory's, it means when you source something and want your own level of quality or features, etc. YOU as the buyer pay for the tooling, any custom machines, dedicated lines, testers, your share of the labor and overhead, etc.

HF doesn't go to a mfgr on alibaba and say give me your stock tool and throw our package on it. some brands do, but I do not believe HF does for a fair amount of their hand tools. power tools especially the woodworking ones used to be stock but they have customized a lot of those as well. tooling for plastic cases and parts on power tools is not cheap. even overseas, each tool can be $30k, and YOU own them and pay for the maintenance, not the mfgr.

I have worked in the outsourcing business for a while, you cannot even import used equipment into Asia unless it is only slightly depreciated, and then they make you invest capital into their factories to offset. remember, it's not capitalism over there, the gov. runs industry and that is how they artificially stimulate their economy. India is the same way, except that they also make you hire x amount of workers whether you need them or not. that's why you see so many people standing around sweeping the dirt floors...

Well explained.... :beer: I would question if any Chinese real estate could be purchased by foreign investors??? Think Big Old Red keeps a tight lid on that..
 

guy48065

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My cellphone is made in (red) China and it's amazing.

But do feel free to continue insisting all they make is ****...
 

gungatim

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Well explained.... :beer: I would question if any Chinese real estate could be purchased by foreign investors??? Think Big Old Red keeps a tight lid on that..

I don't believe you can, that's why you have to do those joint venture's. tough for citizens as well, which is why there are so many luxury vehicles over there. those that have money have a hard time finding something to park the cash in that doesn't get killed by inflation and can be a bit more "portable" when the need arises if you get my drift...amazing the car dealerships and high end jewelry stores over there in the big city's...most are gated and guards to keep out the riff-raff, you can't really just walk in to a lot of places off the street. it can be hard to get money out of some of those country's, and their stock market isn't exactly the dow.
 

jhnlngn

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It would be nice if businesses didn't so often seem like they are out to deceive and rip off their customers.

This thread reminds me of what it was like shopping at one of my local grocery stores. On every isle would be signs for items that were on sale. In large lettering the sign would tell you the general item that was on sale and the sale price, deal or amount off. In tiny print on the sign were the disclaimers, the size of the package of food on sale, specific flavors, etc. Stuff we've all run into and now all expect.

So the little game that the store played with the customers was this. The signs were rarely if ever placed in front of the product that was actually for sale. For example, they run a promo for buy one get one free on bags of potato chips. The sign is placed in front of the 20 oz bag of chips but the tiny print says that the offer only applies to the 12.4 oz bags. OK, so now you are looking for the 12.4 oz bags and then you discover that all the bags that look to be 12.4 oz size aren't. The plain potato chips are 12.4 oz, but the cheddar and sour cream ones that I really like are in a bag that appears the exact same size but says 12.1 oz on it. So you go back to the sales sign to read the fine print and it states "all varieties" of 12.4 oz bags are buy one get one free. You look some more and even though every flavor of potato chips appears to be in a 12.4 oz bag, only the plain chips say 12.4 oz on the bag. So what "varieties" is the sign referring to? All I want is a damn bag of cheddar and sour cream potato chips!

It used to take usually an hour max for me to get my grocery shopping done. Now I was finding it was taking at least 2 hours to shop for the same amount. Is this steak I'm looking at the "Angus Beef" steak that is on sale or just the "USDA Prime" that isn't? Is the salmon the farm raised variety that isn't on sale or the line caught that is? What damn size and which of all the damn Cheerios flavors was part of the buy 10 of anything from one brand and get $5 off of your bill promo? Is this unadvertised "Special Price Drop" going to actually show up correctly on my receipt this time? And if it doesn't is it worth standing in the understaffed customer service line to get my money back while my ice cream melts?

I guess you can call me a smart shopper as I took the time to read all the fine print in the sales and quit shopping at this store. I went to other grocery stores and found out my previously preferred store didn't have a patent on this type of behavior. The new reality was either take the extra time at every store or just ignore the sales all together and buy whatever. Maybe I'll get lucky or maybe I won't. I'm fortunate that I have the time, money and ability to shop either way without it affecting my life. That wasn't always the case. I grew up poor with a single mother who worked full time while working on a college degree and raising my sister and I. She didn't have the extra hour a week to waste at the grocery story, or extra money to not care if the piece of meat she was buying was actually the piece that was on sale. An extra $10 or $20 surprise at the cash register was a big deal. And fortunately I'm not my 89yo grandmother that has a hell of a time reading that tiny fine print in the ads and sale signs, if she even notices them.

Some may see these laws as, "More gov't control and legislation protecting the stupid!" but I just don't see it that way. It's a sad statement to me that these types of laws become necessary because so many businesses feel this is an acceptable way to do business. It's deceptive and they know it's deceptive. While it may affect some or most of us it disproportionately hurts the most vulnerable among us. It's not just "the stupid" that get taken for a ride.

Well off my soap box now. lol
 

dogdog

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^^^
that is what makes this country great.....
No matter how much laws are passed there is always a sleazeball at the other end of the spectrum taking advantage of it, and always a lurker in the dark waiting for an opportunity. Every one will try to push their luck till they get stopped. Do you really think all these HF sales they are loosing $$$ over those Giant Liquidation sales over 80% off or those 20% off coupons? Maybe those actual free Coupons that people use and not buy anything. Or Do you really think Ted can't read fine prints ? Maybe Ted just have a conspiracy to sue all tool merchants that sells tools out of both China and and missed seeing cheap tools from Japan.... No one would know his intention... I just know the excuse was lame from reading the description from the OP's link.
 

crice63

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I'm with jhnlngn above, but instead of using the word "deceptive" I'll use the word "lie". Sure, only a sucker believes the lies of a salesman, but does that make lying ok? It does not. America is not about making lying a legitimate business practice. Freedom doesn't mean "free to lie, cheat, and steal".

Lying for money is swindling. Any business that systematically lies to make money is a swindler, and the people have a legitimate basis for opposing swindling because it keeps legitimate businesses from making their fair profit. Profit isn't bad, but ill-gotten profit corrupts the whole system.

As a country we have chosen the courts to protect our rights and enforce laws against swindlers rather than a government bureaucracy. The wisdom of that can be debated, but it is currently our system. Within this system, the swindler plies his trade until he is successfully challenged in court. Ok then. Let Ted file his suit and make his case. Let HF defend themselves. If the lawyers are the only ones to gain, well, then, that is the price we pay for not having a huge(er) army of government bureaucrats policing every newspaper ad and bulk mail flier.

I feel that I have benefitted from HF's business model. I buy cheap tools, return them if they break, or sometimes graduate to a more secure brand if I find I use the tool frequently or if it is mission-essential. I think it is wise to compare prices and quality between brands or retailers--especially relying on garage journal's awesome network of knowledgeable users--before making a purchase. But all of that does not condone lying.
 
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rice rocket

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With a 30 day return policy, buy, try, and return if it doesn't meet your price/performance standards.

There is no winner here, there are consumer protections that make sense (mandated return policies, safety recalls, etc.), but this is not one of them. The fact that this has reached litigation just shows how much of a drain lawyers are on our society.
 

Motorman55

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The level of "yay! More gov't control and legislation protecting the stupid!" in this thread is astonishing to me.

Also, the lack of basic geography too. Maybe Snap-On has found a market to sell globes!

I know where Taiwan is and its location to China. I also know the history of Taiwan (ROC) and (PRC) China, I've also been to China and Taiwan. I know the differences in their politics and that they're main language and heritage is Chinese.

I've owned Made in Taiwan and Made in China and Made in Japan tools and goods over the years. None of which I am loyal to or will praise them other to say their ok and can usually get the job done. There is no difference IMO to either source of tools. If I'm to spend a lot of money on any single tool I'll buy US Made.

I prefer Made in USA goods and try to buy them when possible (which is more and more harder to do with companies leaving the US.) I collect and seek out vintage US made products, especially my old Harleys and Chevy trucks.

.
 
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bmwpowere36m3

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In CA, he'll probably get traction on his claim... IIRC, CA has very strict pricing/sale laws. Where retailers can't claim sale prices year-round. Items have to be sold at regular prices 40% (something like that) of the time.

Kohls or JC Penny, one of those department stores was on the news a while ago for the same gimmicks.
 

anndel

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Well, didn't the son, the current CEO of HF sue his father, the founder of HF at one point?

Yes he did.
 
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rednotch

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lmao, just got a lowest price evercoupon ad, where the black tool cart is priced higher then the $99 they have had it at plenty of times. guess they didn't learn.
 

derosa

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Right now the 44" tool box is 379 on their website and says compare at 879.00 assumably this means it should be compared to a 879.00 box but there is no indication of any sort that the 379 is a sale price. Yet there is a coupon for 369.00 claiming you save 660 and states compare to 1029.00. So does this mean that the box is 829 or 1029, that these are the price boxes you should compare against, if so why state the lower comparison. If the box is comparable to one at 829.00 how is the coupon saving you 660.00 when it only saving 10.00 over the current web price. Yes I buy at HF but these are obviously sleezy tactics to try and trick people and if a suit is what is needed to fix their pricing then more power to the person filing.
 

ishiboo

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PLEASE READ THIS NOTICE OF PROPOSED CLASS ACTION SETTLEMENT

A COURT ORDERED THIS NOTICE. YOU MAY BE ELIGIBLE FOR BENEFITS FROM A PROPOSED CLASS ACTION SETTLEMENT. YOUR RIGHTS MAY BE AFFECTED BY THIS SETTLEMENT.

YOU MUST RESPOND TO THIS NOTICE BY FILING A CLAIM FORM TO RECEIVE COMPENSATION. IF YOU DO NOT WANT TO BE PART OF THE SETTLEMENT, YOU MUST TAKE THE STEPS DESCRIBED IN THIS NOTICE BY JUNE 7, 2017.

This is a proposed settlement of a class action lawsuit brought in the Common Pleas Court of Lake County, Ohio (the 鼎ourt?, against Harbor Freight Tools USA, Inc. Beck v. Harbor Freight, No. 15CV00598, Lake County, Ohio, Common Pleas. A class action is where one or more persons sue on behalf of others who have similar claims. The members of this group are called the Class.

What this case is about_:

The lawsuit is about Plaintiff痴 claims alleging that Harbor Freight violated the law by advertising merchandise as 登n sale or 田omp at that had not been sold at the stated regular or 田omp at price for 28 of the preceding 90 days. Harbor Freight disputes Plaintiff痴 allegations and believes that it complied with all applicable laws at all times.

Plaintiff and Harbor Freight have concluded that settlement is in their best interests because of the uncertainty, expenses, risks, and delays of litigation. The parties have reached a proposed settlement that will refund a percentage of certain purchases to eligible Class Members, if the Court approves the settlement, but only if a Claim Form is timely filed. The Court has preliminarily approved the settlement as fair, reasonable and adequate. On July 7, 2017, at 1:15 p.m., at the Lake County Courthouse, 47 North Park Place, Painesville, Ohio, 44077, the Court will hold a Settlement Approval Hearing to decide whether to issue final approval of the settlement.

The Court has certified a class for settlement purposes. Members of the class are as follows:

All Harbor Freight customers in the United States who since April 8, 2011 and up to December 15, 2016 (the 鼎lass Period? purchased any product from Defendant which was advertised with a higher reference price (e.g., 途eg. $***, 登nly $***, or 田omp. at $***? adjacent to a lower current offering price, but which was not sold by Defendant at the higher reference price for at least 28 of the last 90 days prior to purchase, excluding Defendant痴 employees, representatives, court officials in this case, and any customer already party to a suit against Defendant challenging advertised pricing.

Harbor Freight痴 records indicate you may be a Class Member if you received this notice.

THE PROPOSED SETTLEMENT

If you are a Class Member and the settlement is approved, and you timely file a Claim Form, you may be entitled to a payment as follows:

OPTION A. Customers who have itemized Harbor Freight receipts reflecting one or more purchases between April 8, 2011 and December 15, 2016 with a 土ou saved amount reflected on their receipts can submit copies of those receipts and *elect to receive either 20% in cash, or 30% in a Harbor Freight gift card, *of the total 土ou saved amount listed on their receipts, excluding any amounts reflecting free items or items that were later returned.

OPTION B. Customers who have credit or debit card statements reflecting one or more purchases at Harbor Freight between April 8, 2011 and December 15, 2016 can submit copies of those statements and elect to receive either 10% in cash, or 12% in a Harbor Freight gift card, of the total Harbor Freight purchases on their credit or debit card statement(s), excluding any amounts reflecting items that were later returned.

OPTION C. All other customers who made purchases at Harbor Freight between April 8, 2011 and December 15, 2016 may submit one declaration, signed under penalty of perjury, stating that they purchased an item from Harbor Freight (other than a free or later-returned item) that was advertised with a higher reference priceadjacent to a lower current offering price, and that they do not have itemized Harbor Freight receipts or credit or debit card statements of their Harbor Freight purchases. Customers submitting this declaration will receive one $10 Harbor Freight gift card.


URL is: http://www.nationalsalepricesettlement.com
 
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jd_1138

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There ought to be a law against moronic consumers who put too much stock in coupons and sale prices.
 

ishiboo

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There ought to be a law against moronic consumers who put too much stock in coupons and sale prices.

Agreed. I'll gladly take my $210 gift card though!

Just another money grab class action. The attorneys get more than the "injured" do, just about.
 

dogdog

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There ought to be a law against moronic consumers who put too much stock in coupons and sale prices.

You just can't fix stupid..... or these moronic consumers are just wicked smart not satisfied with the 25% coupon.
 

KMdef9

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Wow. I'm sure when I look up my CC statements for half a decade, I've spent plenty there. I'm so used to seeing these inflated 'regular' prices, like most, I've ignored them for a long time.

Almost feel bad taking my claim in this, but I'll gladly take 12% back to buy more tools.






Now I'd like to see someone do this for Amazon and I'll be rich!
 

Tonellin

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Wow. I'm sure when I look up my CC statements for half a decade, I've spent plenty there. I'm so used to seeing these inflated 'regular' prices, like most, I've ignored them for a long time.

Almost feel bad taking my claim in this, but I'll gladly take 12% back to buy more tools.






Now I'd like to see someone do this for Amazon and I'll be rich!

Yeah I don't spend a ton of money there but when you're talking more than half a decade it's probably substantial - don't feel like sending them copies of all my credit card statements tho
 

KMdef9

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Yeah I don't spend a ton of money there but when you're talking more than half a decade it's probably substantial - don't feel like sending them copies of all my credit card statements tho

I can filter mine to show only specific transactions, as I wouldn't either.
 

MoonRise

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Agreed. I'll gladly take my $210 gift card though!

Just another money grab class action. The attorneys get more than the "injured" do, just about.

The listed 'attorneys fees' in the settlement notice is $10 MILLION. :wtf:

At a nominal $500/hour for the attorneys, that's 20,000 hours of billed time.

(that's 10 man-years worth of time at 50 weeks/year, allowing 2 weeks off per year.)
 

bluebolt

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I could get a refund but I got the 20% off on my biggest purchase, the adjustable height gantry crane, and just don't feel like I got screwed.
 

superskaterxes

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so this is my post from the other thread here

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=356004

So i just received this email yesterday and i printed off all of my CC statements since 2011 (i literally charge everything in my life so i can keep track of spending even down to a 0.25 cent piece of gum lol). I shop at HF ALOT so i knew this would be a good deal for me.

I went through every transaction and created a spreadsheet with the transaction date, amount, and then made a column to calculate the % i would receive back. I choose the 12% back by gift card (Option B) which was a no brainer since i know i will use it. Here are some stats that i came up with

Between 4/8/2011 and 12/31/16:
Total number of transactions: 78
Total spent between those dates: $4,651.08
Average transaction amount: $59.82
Total ill get back if i choose 10% cash: $465
Total ill get back if i chose 12% GC: $558

i started getting the emailed receipts in 2016 but most of my savings x 30% (option A) was not more than 12% of the total transaction (option B).

you guys pretend that HF isent making an insane amount of profit already (i read somewhere it was a %50 margin) and that this little lawsuit is nothing more than a drop in the bucket for them (last years revenue was ~5 billion for anyone wondering). I agree their tactics are shady (i have a trained eye for a great deal and track prices so it never phased me) but its someones right to contest that via lawsuit if they want to.

Do you feel bad when bumblebee tuna gets sued because they under-filled their cans to save money? its the same principle, companies do whatever they can to increase profits and once in a while someone raises their hand and says "wait, somethings not right here"

clearly i have spent a ton of money over the last 6 years at HF and im going to be using my $562 gift card to buy the 50 ton press ive been eyeing from them for a while now. The majority of the $23 million or however much they are paying out is gona end up right back in their own pockets anyway at the end of the day.
 

Coach James

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so this is my post from the other thread here

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=356004



you guys pretend that HF isent making an insane amount of profit already (i read somewhere it was a %50 margin) and that this little lawsuit is nothing more than a drop in the bucket for them (last years revenue was ~5 billion for anyone wondering). I agree their tactics are shady (i have a trained eye for a great deal and track prices so it never phased me) but its someones right to contest that via lawsuit if they want to.

Do you feel bad when bumblebee tuna gets sued because they under-filled their cans to save money? its the same principle, companies do whatever they can to increase profits and once in a while someone raises their hand and says "wait, somethings not right here"

clearly i have spent a ton of money over the last 6 years at HF and im going to be using my $562 gift card to buy the 50 ton press ive been eyeing from them for a while now. The majority of the $23 million or however much they are paying out is gona end up right back in their own pockets anyway at the end of the day.

If HF is running at a 50% profit margin, they are the most successful retailer in history. When I worked retail, our company profit margin was about 4% and that was considered good. Lots of our items were marked up 50 to 100% but mark up and profit are not the same thing.

Coach
 
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