HeffNeils 40x60 Building

[Vette10R]

I see your driveway will go past your septic, was there a specific distance you had to keep from it? I'm looking at adding a pole barn next year and the area I would really like to put it I would need to have my driveway go between the septic and my other garage. I'm just wondering if I have enough room...

 

[heffneil]

I don't think there is a distance and I am very worried about this! I wanted to add a bathroom to the building but tying in to the septic wouldn't be allowed. They would make me redo or add a separate system for the building. The current systems down here are probably 2 - 4 feet above grade and this system can hardly be seen. Others in the past have given me the impression you can build right up to them. I have a giant tree on the other side of the driveway that I would absolutely hate to lose. I will shoot some more photos but if anything I may have to narrow the driveway post construction if there is a small distance I need to keep.

Someone asked when I am going to build and I am waiting for the permit set of drawings so I can go to the county. The county has told me they have 5 days to review. I think the building takes 4 weeks to produce once its been approved by the county. If I am lucky I will erect the building early February. I was hoping to have it done before the end of the year but I didn't place the order until a least 4 weeks later than anticipated.

 

[Vette10R]

Thanks, that's something I want to look into before I build. I have a mound system so I'm wondering if I can cut into the mound just a couple feet and build a wall against it then put the driveway right up to the wall. I'm not sure if I can cut into the mound at all so I'll need to get a professional opinion most likely...

 

[heffneil]

I also like the window between the porch roof and the upper roof. Thats a nice look, will add light and not impact wall usage too much. I am itching to contact Buck Steel to see about adding this - but I know it could add more time which I don't have

 

[B-Man84]

Good morning, sir. I have a quick question regarding Buck Steel. I've been looking around to start planning a new shop, and happened upon Buck Steel. How did you come up with your slab/foundation? Did you buy the optional stamped engineered foundation plans? If so how did they come up with what type of soil you have? I'm just in the beginning stages of planning, it will be a long journey before fruition, but I want to make sure I don't overlook any part of the foundation/ slab planning. Thank you in advance.

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[drivesitfar]

Heff: I hadn't seen your thread before and just skimmed it and i see several cool garages. i also see about an entire golf course's sand piled up in your yard.

so are you still looking for ideas or do you have a plan already in for permits?

if you need more ideas i'll see if i can post a few pictures of some of my favorites or if you just need trim and covered areas next to the garage you have permitted i'll try to find a few if you haven't decided yet.

good luck and looks like it's going to be a great build.

 

[heffneil]

I found a concrete guy who is very honest. He put me in touch with an engineer who he was doing a job with and for $800 he is doing my slab drawings. In Collier County we have to have inspectors come and do a compaction test before you can build. They do a report and confirm the subbase is suitable for construction. My slab is going to be a monolithic pour with 6" thick slab. There will be footers where the columns go down. I like Buck but I didn't think they would be best to work with locally and I it was about half the price they charge Hope that helps.

 

[heffneil]

Heff: I hadn't seen your thread before and just skimmed it and i see several cool garages. i also see about an entire golf course's sand piled up in your yard.

so are you still looking for ideas or do you have a plan already in for permits?

if you need more ideas i'll see if i can post a few pictures of some of my favorites or if you just need trim and covered areas next to the garage you have permitted i'll try to find a few if you haven't decided yet.

good luck and looks like it's going to be a great build.

Im in communications with buck about putting the windows above the lean to. there isn't a lot of room between the high roof and the lean to / porch roof. I was trying to get clarification about this before I pursued it and set my building back another 7 to 10 days back.

 

[B-Man84]

I found a concrete guy who is very honest. He put me in touch with an engineer who he was doing a job with and for $800 he is doing my slab drawings. In Collier County we have to have inspectors come and do a compaction test before you can build. They do a report and confirm the subbase is suitable for construction. My slab is going to be a monolithic pour with 6" thick slab. There will be footers where the columns go down. I like Buck but I didn't think they would be best to work with locally and I it was about half the price they charge Hope that helps.

Thank you. I'm sorry it took me so long to get back to you. If you don't mind, I'd like to pick your brain throughout your build, as I'm extremely interested in this size and construction type. Do you have the bolt layout plans yet? I would like to know where the structural vertical supports are to be placed.

I'm currently sketching my floor plan out and I would like to be able to see where the vertical supports are most likely to be and what span is between them.

 

[heffneil]

So I had a bunch of companies quote me buildings and every single one of them does it differently. I've seen 15' wide bays and then 20' wide bays. My building is 20' bays which worked out well for my 16' wide doors.

 

[B-Man84]

So I had a bunch of companies quote me buildings and every single one of them does it differently. I've seen 15' wide bays and then 20' wide bays. My building is 20' bays which worked out well for my 16' wide doors.

OK. Good deal. My overhead doors would be 2 on one "gable end" and 1 on the opposite "gable end" in line with the door on the front left. I would guess that the bays would be fine @ 20' wide. I'm just sketching and thinking about a"clean room" in the back right with a flat storage area above it.

 

[heffneil]

Just an update - Last Monday the 19th of December I dropped off the plans for the permit. I didn't have the proper survey - a little mistake on my part but fortunately they were nice and let me run and get it and it wasn't far away. I submitted the package and I just called today the 28th (5 day review cycle with Christmas and weekends) and they told me yesterday the structural review guy rejected the plan. I didn't review the final set and I don't know what details were submitted for the garage doors and windows but we will see what the results are. I haven't received the letter via email I have been looking for. I am awaiting a call back. In the meantime my dirt supplier is out - so I am looking for another source of 4 more loads to get up to the height I need. I will keep you guys posted.

 

[hoho98925]

Looks like its going to be a great building, looking forward to updates.

 

[heffneil]

So I typed an entire message and my token expired so it didn't post- What a shame. Here goes again:

As expected my plans were rejected. The county is supposed to write me an email with the stuff they need in something calling Final Type or something like that. I still haven't received my email and I just called to ask again where it was. The plans were rejected on the 27th today is the 29th. The plan reviewer I spoke with told me that he needs the NOA's on all the openings. NOA's are Notice of Acceptance which certifies the doors, windows and garage doors are acceptable in our wind load. I wonder if I could tell him we aren't going to have doors Anyway the plans had the NOA number for the man doors which can be found on www.floridabuilding.org. A really cool website I used for getting the certificates for the man doors. The window supplier send the NOA's within minutes and finally the garage door vendor sent NOA's today. They also want the electrical plan which I am keeping simple and will provide. Lastly there was an issue of the terminology. I used "Under Air" which I thought meant enclosed but it means air conditioned. So there was a question about the insulation and AC drawings. I explained that I used the wrong wording if that was what it meant and that if budget provided I would only then insulate and air condition the space and it might be insulate now, AC another time. Anyway I had to write a letter clarifying that at this time it isn't my plan to insulate or condition the space.

So thats my update. Just need my electrician to mark up the plan so I can go down there and find out what else I am missing

 

[heffneil]

So I dropped off my plans on the 9th of January and I am waiting to hear back. I anxiously called the county to find out it has passed residential permitting (which I don't know exactly what that means) and its going to zoning now. I want to order my darn building so it can go in to production but I can't until I get the nod. Fingers crossed.

In the meantime the supplier of my dirt ran out (yes they can run out?!) so it took me a few weeks and I got the last 5 loads of dirt delivered today. I hope to have them leveled and compacted soon!

 

[drivesitfar]

HEFF: any pictures of all the dirtwork? best of luck on the plans and build.

i noticed you mentioned you had been logged out while maybe writing a long post. that used to happen to me years ago and i think if you just check the box next to where you log in that won't happen again. PM me if you still have issues or PM a MOD and ask.

also if you would like us to know what area you are building your shop you might want to go in your GJ profile and put in state, city/state or just a general area like i have. while you are in there maybe click on Avatar and download a favorite picture of something you want to show up under your GJ name (handle).

cheers

 

[heffneil]

I should have posted the dirt in previous posts. but here is a pic of the last 7 loads before being spread. They came yesterday to knock it down but today they will level it off and compact. I am going to have a compaction test and spot survey (where the surveyors come out and locate the precise points for the corners of the building along with the elevations). I had to move the building a bit closer to the camera in the pic to the south so I can get the turn around. I was 32 feet off the side property line (there is a 30' easement) now we are at 35 feet.

I did receive my permit and all I have to do now is pay a bill and pick it up! I am going today to get it. There was a snafu on the county side with zoning in regards to the amount of space my guest home and the new building take up. It can't be more than 5% of the total area and basically they were adding up my main house and the new building and it exceeded the rule.

Lastly I sent the next payment to Buck Steel and I have to pick colors. This is the hard part. I showed my wife the colors I liked (the green and beige) in the original rendering - and she laughed and thought it was a joke. She is very much against this all together so it was the wrong person to ask. The building is going to take 6-8 weeks to produce which kinda ***** and puts me way way out. I thought I was told 4 weeks but we will see and then they have to do the erection scheduling. Not a fast process. I think I have been spoiled by HGTV show!

 

[GrantOpus]

Glad to hear of your progress! Keep the updates coming.


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[heffneil]

I sent back all my colors - I ended up going with Burnished Slate (Dark Brown) for my bottom wainscot and all the trims and soffits. I went light stone for the top panel. Here is what I got from their colorizer which is very useful:

I cut out the bottom of the panel to make the man door the right color. I will have to have it painted to match the burnished slate but they only sell white doors - no color. I might regret buying their doors - I don't know if it is that good.

 

[heffneil]

I also wanted to share some numbers. They are quite interesting. I was very fortunate to have a friends wife who works for a big road company down here. They sold me the lime rock for $4 a ton and $3 a ton for screened fill. Thats half price and the trucking was 3.42 a ton - my first couple loads were flat $75 a truck but I worked with them to get better value so I had fuller trucks. Here are all the numbers as they sit. By the way this supplier ran out of fill so the trucking company brought me 5 loads at $11 a ton. So quite a bit more which is about the normal going rate!

 

[heffneil]

Another note is that Buck Steel isn't selling garage doors in South Florida - not sure why honestly I thought the sales person was just finished with me and didn't want to sell them to me. They are about $500 a piece cheaper than the local vendor for the roll up doors. I am going to continue to shop but I will need to get them ordered sooner.

Also I ordered my damper / exhaust fan unit. This unit is designed for the building of this size. It is mounted inside the wall of the building and the dampers will open only when the fan is on. It will be great for the 4 days a year it isn't 90 degrees!

 

[heffneil]

So I got the building in to production and there was a question about 20' clear for the erection. As it turns out one wall does not have 20' clear. I fessed up and explained this wasn't the case. Also I was informed that the soonest they could erect the building was the first week of April!!! Then I was informed that the 20' problem was going to cost me an additional $6,000!!! I have to tell you I have had a series of surprises along the way and I have gone as far as to accuse them of bait and switch here on the erection. They are telling me they don't see garage doors in South Florida any longer. I get the impression they don't want any more of my business and trying to reduce as much as possible. I am waiting to hear back and I asked to speak to the owner who's last name is Buck - but he isn't going to call me. I asked for a contract for the erection and I was told in an email do not worry that the erection price is solid. It went from $17,900 to $24,000. Thats an absurd upcharge and if as they told me it would take 7 days to erect the building at the $17,900 that would be a fee of $2557 per day. And with this upcharge it would reflect that since they have to use a ladder on the one end wall (40' wide with one opening for the exhaust fan) would require over 2 days additional labor since they can't use a lift. I find this extremely unlikely and I am not sure "one week" is really 7 days but perhaps 5 which would make the upcharge even more ridiculous. Needless to say I am not pleased and I just recently discovered Buck Steel doesn't make the steel and they are middle men and brokers and not much more. I had no idea and was given the impression they were the manufacturer direct. Again another surprise.

Very poor and I am already concerned but now they are messing with my pocketbook -and I am NOT happy. I don't know if I regret working with them yet but this process hasn't been a really good one and I feel like its very adversarial and I talked to some really nice people who I didn't work with - and perhaps may live to regret it.

 

[cbacres]

If this was my building, I'd take a step back and sit down with a beer or two before going any further. Hold off on picking up the permit, in case you switch companies.

As far as the doors go, it could just be the wind rating required down here and they May not have a source.

If your not commited, call a few other companies, like Rhino steel buildings. They have a hand ful of buildings in SW Florida, I looked at one in Golden Gate back when I was buying mine in Ky. If your having these issue already, it may get even worse.

There's Dean steel buildings in Ft. myers, they build all thier components, but have been a little higher than other companies.

It is not unusual for the building companies to source out the pieces of the building.
As far as the door goes, white is the only color I've ever known of, some Rustoleum or other metal paint will fix that easily.

I'm not completly following their reasoning, but sounds like now that you have a permit, there true side is coming out, but I stress I don't know all there is.

Feel free to PM me and I'd be happy to to help you with what I know.
May be too much to type, but we can post up here for alls benifit.

 

[heffneil]

I do have my permit. When I was buying my building I was quoted doors and then I said well let me quote some local folks but these guys (Buck) had a number like $500 less than the local guys. When I asked for the NOA's for the garage doors so I could provide them to the county for the permit and add them to my order I was told they no longer provide them here. Sounds fishy.

My biggest problem is the 25% of the new number or 34% of the original number increase in the price of erection - there is no way it is justified because of the spacing on one side of the building.

 

[drivesitfar]

HEFF: if you decide to go to a different company since BUCK can't do the build until APRIL can you get 100% of your money back or how much is refundable and how much do they get to keep? or if they keep it can you get it back in court later with your attorney fees?

sorry to hear you are having such a hard time just getting a nice shop built. it also looks like you have a very nice property that is gated and maybe on the water too?

good luck

 

[heffneil]

I signed a contract - I am pretty sure it would be impossible to get out of it at this time. Thats why I feel very painted in and thats why it is totally screwed up with the erection costs. I reached out to four different local companies that do this and I hope I will get favorable numbers from them. I will keep you guys posted. The thing that worries me about using a third party to install the building is that there could be finger pointing back and forth. I got the referral for two of the erectors from a guy I know in the construction business and he advised me along with the couple guys I spoke to yesterday that I need CONSTRUCTION drawings. The drawings I have are marked for approval. If I use the anchor bolt pattern given in the approval (not even permit marked?!) I could really be in big trouble. I don't know I emailed buck asking for those plans ASAP - we will see how long this takes to get.

One other thing she (Elizabeth) provided me renderings and that was one of the reason I decided to use them. I could visualize the building which is pretty powerful. I asked her for an updated rendering during the process - and guess what she said the system is down and they didn't know when or if it would be back. Another thing that was odd and strange and never updated if the system did come back online

 

[drivesitfar]

HEFF: instead of calling or emailing have you been to BUCK in person and talked with the owner or the contractors there?

unless you signed a contract where the price could be changed without your permission i'm guessing it might need your approval or the contract could be NULL AND VOID. i'm not an attorney and i might not know the laws in your state so really just thinking outloud that maybe you might need to hire an attorney if a face to face isn't satisfying you.

it's tough enough building these things and they are always more expensive than you plan, but if you are having this much problem in the paperwork stage i'd seriously try to get it worked out before they start dumping materials on your property and billing you even more over charges.

good luck

 

[readhead]

A lesson for anyone looking for a building. Don't deal with brokers. They have no skin in the deal. As a metal building contractor I often get calls from owners that bought a building from a dealer on the internet and it doesn't include what they thought. After carefully quizzing them I could have sold them a building for less money with a faster delivery time.

One large broker that does a lot of radio advertising is a great example. Originally run out of a bedroom "office" they are the brokers of all brokers. You have no idea who will supply your building or when it will arrive. In order for you to get the great price they gather up orders and send them in together. If you are the first to order in the cycle your wait is longer than the last guy.

I could go on but my best advice is to deal with a local contractor to purchase the building even if it is just the building. The local guy will usually be a dealer for a well established company and if there are any issues you have someone to deal with. They can sell just the building or provide any or all components of the build.

Hire your own erector. It will be cheaper than the guy provided by the company. The building company is not providing the erector out of the goodness of their heart, they are getting a markup on the erector.

I'm rambling and I will cut this short. The metal building business has become a swamp of questionable dealers with all the slick internet sites. There are good, well established building companies out there. Draw up a basic plan with specific requirements and submit to several suppliers including the local guy. Ask for the total weight of the building components to compare prices.

 

[cbacres]

A lesson for anyone looking for a building. Don't deal with brokers. They have no skin in the deal. As a metal building contractor I often get calls from owners that bought a building from a dealer on the internet and it doesn't include what they thought. After carefully quizzing them I could have sold them a building for less money with a faster delivery time.

One large broker that does a lot of radio advertising is a great example. Originally run out of a bedroom "office" they are the brokers of all brokers. You have no idea who will supply your building or when it will arrive. In order for you to get the great price they gather up orders and send them in together. If you are the first to order in the cycle your wait is longer than the last guy.

I could go on but my best advice is to deal with a local contractor to purchase the building even if it is just the building. The local guy will usually be a dealer for a well established company and if there are any issues you have someone to deal with. They can sell just the building or provide any or all components of the build.

Hire your own erector. It will be cheaper than the guy provided by the company. The building company is not providing the erector out of the goodness of their heart, they are getting a markup on the erector.

I'm rambling and I will cut this short. The metal building business has become a swamp of questionable dealers with all the slick internet sites. There are good, well established building companies out there. Draw up a basic plan with specific requirements and submit to several suppliers including the local guy. Ask for the total weight of the building components to compare prices.

Well said!

 

[heffneil]

Yeah I think doing the work on my end and having 4 people bid out the erection will work out in my favor. I just got off the phone with a guy I called yesterday who was under structural steel in the phone book. He said what did your building cost like $15k and I was like no it was more like 45k and I have to tell you I can't figure out how it swelled so much!

Btw the original local guy who would have done the slab and all was very expensive (he is actually bidding the erection which I feel funny about). I saved about 30k just being the general contractor myself...

The lean to / porch and the mezzanine inside really added to the "on the internet price". Also I really thought Buck was the manufacturer and somehow recently I learned they weren't which is very upsetting. There is a guy in colorado who is a break and real A-hole who I have spoken to two times and really don't like. He said I only make $500 and are you ready to buy today. I said wow cowboy let me ask some questions and he said ah you're a $1000 guy im not making any money on you. I obviously didn't buy his bull and wouldn't give him a nickel. Buck was a bit more polished and offered that rendering. The dog and pony show was better but the product probably not.

 

[drivesitfar]

HEFF: funny you say the A hole in Colorado and just after getting a post from a dealer in Colorado talking about the internet biz of a few of his competitors.

cheaper isn't always better and in the same sentence more expensive isn't always better.

keep researching and asking questions even though you've already started spending money maybe somebody can help you or sometimes just putting your questions on GJ or paper can help you find the answers.

good luck

 

[GrantOpus]

Heff- Really sorry to hear this is happening. Keep us posted. I've talked to 3 different red iron steel building companies (MBMI, General Steel, and Buck) and I haven't gotten a warm fuzzy feeling from any of them.

Keep us posted, I hope everything works out fine for you.


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[readhead]

Almost everyone uses the same plug and play estimating software and can provide a rendering. It is a very useful tool to make the sale. However it is a very useful tool to upsell. They will add things like overhangs, lean to's, gutters etc. They are betting that once you see "your" building with these adds you will bite.

Please understand that I'm not picking on you. You thought you did all the right things. I'm trying to help others to not have a similar experience.

 

[readhead]

Grant, those are all brokers. First thing to ask is if they have their own manufacturing facility. Some will be evasive. If that is the case move on.

When you go to a site check out their history. If they build their own material they will be proud of that fact and provide documentation.

 

[GrantOpus]

Anyone know of a company that manufactures in Florida?


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[heffneil]

I talked to these guys: tridentbuildingsystems.com

They were very nice and I might regret not using them.

No response today regarding the CONSTRUCTION plans. My set that I have have approval checked not even permit - I am learning as I go.

Also I got a call from my surveyor and I ordered the wrong thing. I think she called it a hook and tack is what I wanted which is an elevation and the 4 corners pinpointed by the surveyors. The site survey occurs after the concrete.

 

[GrantOpus]

I contacted Trident and am waiting for them to get back to me. They seem to be more commercial but we'll see.


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[heffneil]

Let me know if you hear back from Trident - I'm certainly frustrated by Buck.

I had my compaction testing and that worked out just fine. I have to go pick up the report. They actually test by banging a spike in to the soil and see how many blows it takes. Doesn't sound scientific to me at all but thats how they do it.

I also originally ordered a Spot Survey but as it turns out I wanted a Hook and Tak where they come out and spike the corners and with a laser drop a dot on the top of the spike like a plumb bob and then they nail a finish nail in the top.

Not terribly exciting photos here but you can see the hole for the spike (I wasn't here when this was done) The next photos are the hook and tak. I moved the building south by 3 feet and it caused some issues with the amount of dirt we had. Fortunately on this corner is the footer only for the porch area. The concrete contractor I talked to said not to bring in more dirt yet since we still need to dig the footers and will have excess dirt from that. What is interesting is that they use foil tape to measure the distance off the guest house next to the building to triangulate where his points are.

 

[heffneil]

Also I received one quote from a local erection firm that was exactly where Buck steel was. Apparently there is a lot of welding for my mezzanine.

I did get a referral from another guy I know and he sounds more reasonable ($3 - $4 a foot) but I am waiting for his quote. He also worked for the original guy who quoted me the building so I know he will do a quality job. I will keep you guys posted.

 

[GrantOpus]

Nothing back from Trident yet....I did talk to Heritage (Steelbuilding.com). I was told that they do manufacture there own buildings that they are not a broker. I was also told that $3.65 per sq foot is normal erection fees (although they do not provide that service but would give me a list of 4 to call). I will be very interested in who you use to erect your building (even though I am on the east coast).

At least you are making progress on your building...heck I am still not 100% sure on where I am going to locate mine.