help with framing for walls

[BigMoneySteve]

Let me qualify this post by saying I know nothing about construction methods. I need some help with preping the inside of my post frame 30X50 for wall sheathing. I am stuck between running 2x4's between the post and using joist hangers or something like that to place them or just run them along the face of the post. Can someone tell me the pros and cons of either?

 

[ShiftedSolutions]

What type of insulation will you be installing?

 

[BigMoneySteve]

I'm going with open cell foam, 3".

 

[ShiftedSolutions]

My posts are 8ft on center and I am going to sheet in between the posts. I am going with closed cell spray also. I not sure how to go about it either. I was thinking 2x4 connected on the inside of the posts and one in the center. Basically a bare minimum stud wall to hang the sheeting. That's my thought anyways...

 

[BrianC636]

What I did was build my walls on the floor (2x4, 16" on center) then stand them up and used 2 short sections of 2x4 on the ends to attach them to the beam.

I found my beams weren't plumb so I plumbed the walls and skipped screwing the OSB to them. See my build thread (that hasn't been updated in forever) for some bad pictures of what I'm talking about but you can get the idea from there.

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=151517

 

[CrewCabGuy]

What will you be covering the walls with?

 

[bygasper]

Most commercial garage/barn/etc...type builders that I've seen run them along the face on the inside. A lot less time than putting up joist hangers. This is done for the inside and outside actually. They refer to them as "girts". I've attached a photo from my build. You can see the girt on the inside of the posts on one wall that they had insulated. Then also on the outside of a wall that they had not insulted yet.

 

[BigMoneySteve]

What will you be covering the walls with?

I will be using plywwod on lower 8' and some kind of liner for upper walls and ceiling.

 

[Pcoghlan]

In case it is of help here is what I did. Added horizontal framing and blew in Atticat insulation.

Nice and warm and seems pretty solid. Also, provided an 8 inch recess for the insulation.

 

[BigMoneySteve]

bygasper's pic looks exactly like my building. Minus the progress.

bygasper, are you going to finish the ceiling? What material? Also, what are you putting on the upper walls?

 

[CrewCabGuy]

I am doing mine with the 2x4s on the inside of the post. As stated it is easier than attaching between the posts and you only lose 1 1/2" of floor space. As for using blown insulation in the wall it is fine as long as you can access the top of the wall to add insulation as it settles.

 

[Highbeam]

Seems lots of us are finishing out pole barns.

I went the cadillac route and am framing full walls between the posts. Cost isn't really very much but it does take more time.

I would not use joist hangers, that is just silly. Instead, if you desire a wall flush with your post, nail a 2x4 to the side of the post recessed from the face by 1.5 inches and then nail each girt into that.

If you were to use the face of post girt method then I would still use a treated bottom plate attached to the floor. This will prevent the wall from bowing and provide a solid base. Then I would use 2x6 girts all the way to the top.

Wiring, plumbing, sheating, insulating, hanging cabinets, are all like a house when you build real walls between the posts.

 

[Kevin54]

This is something I don't understand, so if someone would explain it to me, I'd appreciate it.

Most build Pole barns to save money, but if you go back and have to build walls anyways, why not stick build the building in the first place? How much do you actually save by going with a Pole vs. Stick?

Is it the fact that you don't need a foundation BUT could go with a slab, or is it easier for a DIY'er to frame it himself? I know a few others that have done the same thing...build a pole building, then basically frame up a complete garage on the inside.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to sound like a smartass, but I'm just curious.

 

[Sureshot]

I find the horizontal girts easier to work with than the verticals. The verticals may be just like a house but it is way easier to just know you have a 2x4 or 2x6 every 2'OC from the floor. I have tin on most of my building and drywall in the rest. Fiberglass batts between the posts.
I don't like the plywood idea for fire reasons. I have shelves and metal racks over the tin, But I also prefer not to have alot of things hanging around. My preference is rolling cabinets, and closed cabinets. The ribs in the tin are 3/4" so you use a 1x or plywood to space off anything spanning the ribs and I use 1 1/2" square tube to mount the metal racks so the stock doesn't damage the walls. You just need to rethink the design but I prefer metal work to wood anyway.

 

[pmiranda]

My guess is foundation cost and the DIY factor.
I'm thinking about this as well. I like the idea of getting a pole building up fast as a simple "utility" building that doesn't require any interior finish by code and then adding interior finish as time and money allows.

 

[Spareparts]

Build a pole building, have it appraised for tax purpose then finish the inside with the door down.

 

[mtwaterguy]

This is something I don't understand, so if someone would explain it to me, I'd appreciate it.

Most build Pole barns to save money, but if you go back and have to build walls anyways, why not stick build the building in the first place? How much do you actually save by going with a Pole vs. Stick?

Is it the fact that you don't need a foundation BUT could go with a slab, or is it easier for a DIY'er to frame it himself? I know a few others that have done the same thing...build a pole building, then basically frame up a complete garage on the inside.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to sound like a smartass, but I'm just curious.[/QUOTE


As discussed many times, if you use a commercial/ bookshelf girt install initially there is no need to reframe for interior walls. Less labor, less materials and a sturdier building.

 

[Highbeam]

This is something I don't understand, so if someone would explain it to me, I'd appreciate it.

Most build Pole barns to save money, but if you go back and have to build walls anyways, why not stick build the building in the first place? How much do you actually save by going with a Pole vs. Stick?

Is it the fact that you don't need a foundation BUT could go with a slab, or is it easier for a DIY'er to frame it himself? I know a few others that have done the same thing...build a pole building, then basically frame up a complete garage on the inside.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to sound like a smartass, but I'm just curious.[/QUOTE


As discussed many times, if you use a commercial/ bookshelf girt install initially there is no need to reframe for interior walls. Less labor, less materials and a sturdier building.

Actually no. The posts are true 6x8 so you could not get double duty out of the bookshelf girt system. Maybe if you used little dimensional 6x6 posts. I also consider the bookshelf girts weaker since you are loading your girts with materials in the flat/weak direction. The only way it is stronger is wind resistance but you sure don't see walls blowing out anyway.

The interior framing is cheap, easy, and I can do it at my leisure after the building is finished. If you are avoiding regular framing methods like I pictured to save money then your reward will be very small. If you are avoiding regular framing to save time then that is a better excuse but still, you'll want to sure you can live with the compromises.

 

[mtwaterguy]

Actually no. The posts are true 6x8 so you could not get double duty out of the bookshelf girt system. Maybe if you used little dimensional 6x6 posts. I also consider the bookshelf girts weaker since you are loading your girts with materials in the flat/weak direction. The only way it is stronger is wind resistance but you sure don't see walls blowing out anyway.

The interior framing is cheap, easy, and I can do it at my leisure after the building is finished. If you are avoiding regular framing methods like I pictured to save money then your reward will be very small. If you are avoiding regular framing to save time then that is a better excuse but still, you'll want to sure you can live with the compromises.

Interior framing may be easy, but it's not a cheap solution if the same thing can be accomplished in one procedure. More than double materials and labor can be quite a savings. The improvement to the structure is accomplished by preventing racking, not trying to prevent the wall from blowing out. According to the structural engineers that I have used, commercial girts definitely increase structure strength.

 

[DirtRoad]

This is the thread i started on the subject, some really good ideas in here:
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=176129&highlight=pole+barn

I didnt build my pole barn, it was free with the house, so thats why framing the interior dont matter much as far as money goes.

 

[mtwaterguy]

This is the thread i started on the subject, some really good ideas in here:
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=176129&highlight=pole+barn

I didnt build my pole barn, it was free with the house, so thats why framing the interior dont matter much as far as money goes.

That's an interesting way of justifying the unneeded expenditure.

 

[DirtRoad]

Thats why i recommend, at least in Michigan, to buy a house that already has a shop/pole barn. Building one does not raise the value of the house/property, you are literally throwing away money. Since the pole barn was free with the house it makes sense to stud the interior and finish it, hell i didnt pay for the whole building anyways lol

But, if someone needed walls taller than 10ft what choice do some people have? How tall can you stick build?

If you only want 10ft walls or less, stick build all the way if you are going to insulate and finish the interior.

 

[socapots]

Pretty sure you can stick build to any height. Saw a commercial building being built that looks pretty tall. Stick as far as I could tell.

 

[Highbeam]

You can stick build way over 10 feet tall. Framing is cheap. The price difference between framing one way and framing another is very cheap so don't half *** it to save 2 bucks. Choose the method you want and do it.

I too am a civil engineer and do not see how the commercial girt system will give any more strength to prevent "racking". The flat girts give up strength in the vertical direction to offer more strength in the horizontal which only helps keep your walls from blowing out in a wind as if that happens a lot. Meh, builder's option.

 

[kbs2244]

If you face nail the gerts horizonally you have a space to run you electric behind the paneling.

 

[larry_g]

I too am a civil engineer and do not see how the commercial girt system will give any more strength to prevent "racking". The flat girts give up strength in the vertical direction to offer more strength in the horizontal which only helps keep your walls from blowing out in a wind as if that happens a lot. Meh, builder's option.

Have you considered that a lot of the structural strength comes from the metal skin on a pole building?

lg
no neat sig line

 

[mtwaterguy]

You can stick build way over 10 feet tall. Framing is cheap. The price difference between framing one way and framing another is very cheap so don't half *** it to save 2 bucks. Choose the method you want and do it.

I too am a civil engineer and do not see how the commercial girt system will give any more strength to prevent "racking". The flat girts give up strength in the vertical direction to offer more strength in the horizontal which only helps keep your walls from blowing out in a wind as if that happens a lot. Meh, builder's option.

If you nail the girts to the front of the post the only thing you have preventing racking is the nails holding the girts to the posts. With the commercial girts installed you have a solid wall that doesn't move.