Between 705 & 1200 SQ/FT Hillside steel workshop project_2 post lift install

[70runner]

Our home has 2 attached standard 2 car garages, one of which I converted to a workshop with a lift. Our daughter recently moved in and works from home. Her living quarters are adjacent to the workshop/garage, so decided to explore a detached workshop to free up the workshop/garage for actual parking. Our terrain is such that the best option is a hillside workshop. Rough location below.



Two basic structure options considered, separate retaining wall or retaining wall as part of the structure. Having had some positive experience with a steel kit barn at a previous residence, and after some GJ research, decided on steel kit workshop with separate retaining wall. MD Barns (Ontario CA) is manufacturing the steel structure kit. Structure design, 36' x 24', has large center bay for 2 post lift, parking bay, and workshop bay. Terrain view with retaining wall designed using Sketchup.



Following countless interactions with San Diego county building dept and fire dept, secured the permits in May. Helped immensely by daughter's friend's dad who is a licensed surveyor.

Broke ground on Tuesday with a few scoops of dirt by grading subcontractor to get a sense of soil composition. Wed and today progress. Hit some rock today so they are bringing in hydraulic hammer rig for Cat 450E. Grader estimates they've moved about 500yds of soil. Will update as project moves along.

 

[70runner]

Friday, 9Jun update. Encounted some granite, so mounted breaker on the 450E. Breaker lasted about 10min, then died. Contractor brought in a Cat 315 excavator with breaker to take on the granite. Short video below.

Day4 finished along with picture of excavated dirt, adjacent to dig site. Plan to move about half the pile tomorrow.

 

[70runner]

Day 5, mostly granite demo and dirt pile removal. Removed about 250yds.

 

[70runner]

What I'm working toward, interior layout view. Workshop on the right-welder, tool chest, benchtop mill, compressor, etc., center lift bay, and parking/storage bay on left. The cabinets, work table, and mill base are Saber steel products.

 

[70runner]

13 June (day 8) update: after a couple off days, excavation completed. Quite a bit of rock encountered, grader estimated about 600yds of material removed. Next up is footing for 9ft retaining wall (rear).

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[70runner]

15 June update (day 10): folks were here today laying out the wall and pad locations. Also taking a look at my 43yr old 400a service panel, which I'm updating as part of the project. When we did a ground mount solar install late last year, it took the contractor several weeks to locate the appropriate 175a main panel breaker as they were discontinued several years ago. Ergo the need to update the main panel. Contact with MD Barns indicates structure kit will be ready to ship on 21 July.

 

[70runner]

Today's update (day14/15): last 2 days spent digging footings for retaining wall. More granite/rock encountered slowing down the excavation. Finished today, basically a 1x4 footing with a 1x1.5 keyway for the portion of the wall above 5ft, smaller for the portion below 5ft. Rebar and concrete should be showing up later this week.

 

[rixtrix1]

Should be a very nice shop!

 

[70runner]

Another purpose of the project is to provide additional housing and service for these 2 guys.



and a more spacious home for my 2 post lift.

 

[Swanny1953]

Good lookin' Mopars! Details on the cars?

 

[gahrajmahal]

We have a similar situation here in Ohio where we have clay soil, a home in a hillside and a big Chrysler in the garage. Some suggestions while you have big digging equipment and no landscaping done yet. We have dug trenches at our property line above our home as a first defense for heavy rains. Our neighbors yards above us are only concerned with draining their property and not what their runoff does to our home when it rains a lot. The trenches divert the main runoff from their homes so we are only working with the water from our yard.

Our retaining walls (stone and 50 years old, rebuilt and repointed by Mrs. Gahrajmahal and myself about five years ago) . Before this rebuild we added 4” fabric covered drain hose excavated down about a foot and placed in a plastic lined trench, then back filled with gravel. This keeps all our hard work from being washed out from behind a little better. I even added a surface drain at a point where the neighbors gutters were directed midway towards the wall. ( they have since fixed this, thanks guys!)

If I was building new retaining walls I would have French drains at the base with gravel and would also add the “surface” style drain at the top of the wall like we put in. Our base of the wall French drains have long ago silted up and the random drain pipes at the base of the walls are more access holes for critters rather than pressure releasing ports.

Lastly, to slow the flow of water on our property we installed a dry creek bed and grow lots of thick ground cover to slow and disperse the rain water when it is pouring down. It will be a work in progress as you spend more time there. Looks great so far!

 

[70runner]

Rajmahal, nice looking C body, love the 60s C bodies. Thx for advice. Our excavation area is heavily rock/granite, good for strength, bad for extra cost heavy duty hydraulic hammers. After inspecting site, wall engineer said retaining wall wouldn't be nearly as strong as surrounding terrain. Of course we don't get nearly as much rain in SOCAL, though this winter was pretty wet for us. One of my neighbors is retired general contractor with specialty in retaining wall waterproofing, so he'll help me with that aspect. I'll run the surface drain idea by my GC.

Rebar and base block for wall arrived today.

 

[jon72vega]

Another purpose of the project is to provide additional housing and service for these 2 guys.



and a more spacious home for my 2 post lift.

Love the Road Runner!
I had a '68 back in the day.

 

[70runner]

Love the Road Runner!
I had a '68 back in the day.

Yup, me too. Drove it to college in AZ. Circa 1971...

 

[70runner]

Update (day21): rebar for retaining wall footing in process last 2 days.

 

[70runner]

Good lookin' Mopars! Details on the cars?

After restoring and selling my 70RR hardtop, bought the convertible in 1990 as a driver, then restored it. Needed quite a bit of bodywork, usual Mopar issues, trunk rot, lower quarters. Engine is not original, but auto trans is. Did all the resto myself except for quarters, paint, top. Daughter is 3rd owner of all original 69RT. 440 auto, console, A/C. Purchased Dec68 from Crenshaw Dodge, Los Angeles by close friend. Engine had never been out of car until we pulled it to rebuild a few years back. RT has extensive paperwork, likely one of best documented Chargers from that era.

 

[70runner]

Fathers day gift from daughter for new garage...

 

[70runner]

Day23. Poured retaining wall footing today. 3 trucks with about 7yds each, less than full load due to hilly road/slopes. Wet set the first course. Contractor had planned pea gravel load with pumper. Wall engineer, onsite to approve rebar arrangement, specified larger rock load though that requirement was not in the plans. Engineer won.

 

[70runner]

Day29. After a bit of a break for Independence Day, trucked in block for the wall. Specified tan color to blend with the house and structure. 18 wheel delivery truck could only go to beginning of no outlet, private road to our area due to steep hills and no turnaround for large trucks. Contractor arranged for a couple 1 ton trucks to transfer the block pallets, then bring them to site. We'll have the same challenge for the steel structure when it is delivered.

 

[ConCretin]

Wet set the first course. Contractor had planned pea gravel load with pumper. Wall engineer, onsite to approve rebar arrangement, specified larger rock load though that requirement was not in the plans. Engineer won.

I've never heard of wet setting the first course of block. I can see the advantages but trying to get the verts on bond and the blocks set and lying flat before the concrete hardens must have been a challenge. Wow. Can't wait to see more progress.

I'm not sure why the engineer was so adamant about the aggregate size. You get a little more shrinkage with smaller stone but it doesn't affect strength or other properties if the mix design is done properly (you need a bit more cement to create more paste).

 

[70runner]

I've never heard of wet setting the first course of block. I can see the advantages but trying to get the verts on bond and the blocks set and lying flat before the concrete hardens must have been a challenge. Wow. Can't wait to see more progress.

I'm not sure why the engineer was so adamant about the aggregate size. You get a little more shrinkage with smaller stone but it doesn't affect strength or other properties if the mix design is done properly (you need a bit more cement to create more paste).

Yea, the crew was pretty busy getting the concrete arranged to facilitate wet setting the base course. The stringline kept getting in the way. It helped that the pour was 3 trucks (21yds), so they could catch up between deliveries.

As to the aggregate, pretty much what my contractor said (strength is not compromised), but the engineer was determined. The wall engineer doesn't get a vote on the structure footing/slab, so we plan pea gravel with pump for 3500psi pour.

Some progress today (day30) on the wall.

 

[ConCretin]

The wall engineer doesn't get a vote on the structure footing/slab, so we plan pea gravel with pump for 3500psi pour.

If you are going to use 3/8" stone for your slab, just keep in mind that you'll get more shrinkage than a standard 3/4" mix. You'll want to keep your control joint spacing a little closer together than normal to minimize the chance of a random surface crack. I'd also keep the mix water to a minimum with a mid range water reducer and cure the slab properly.

 

[metalhead140]

Looking good so far! Any more details on the mopars?

 

[70runner]

Looking good so far! Any more details on the mopars?

Thx. Provided some detail earlier in the thread.

After a lull in construction, partially due to scheduling the wall engineer to review progress, grout filled the wall at about the halfway point in the rear. Finished wall will be 9ft + at the rear. Process will repeat for final portion of wall, block, another inspection, then grout fill.

Meanwhile steel building is scheduled to be delivered on 21 July. I've asked the manufacturer to explore delivery truck options smaller than 18 wheelers. Virtually impossible to get 18 wheelers up the private road to our driveway. Concrete truck is about the largest truck I've seen on the road.

 

[70runner]

After grout pour, wall construction continues (day 37).

 

[70runner]

Good day (#38), rear wall finished, some work on sides remaining.

 

[70runner]

Wall finished (day41). Grout pour scheduled tomorrow. Engineer "suggests" wall cure for 28 days before backfill. Wall contractor believes that is excessive. Anyone have an opinion on this?

 

[ConCretin]

I hope no one comes on here and tells you to ignore your engineer and proceed with backfilling prior to your grout reaching full strength. There's just no way any of us can know. I do know that you have a fairly tall retaining wall with no lateral support from the structure yet.

I don't know that I'd backfill it at all until you do regardless of grout strength. It looks like you are in a pretty dry area and if your backfill material is too, you'd probably be fine but if you take your contractor's advice, I'd want to be certain, he's prepared to replace it if it topples over.

Things are looking good. Looking forward to future progress.

 

[pima67]

Some years back, a new neighbor across the street built their house with a concrete walled basement. When it was back filled, part of the basement wall was collapsed by the backfill soil. Decisison to backfill maybe by the house contractor. Moral: Better safe than sorry.

 

[70runner]

Appreciate the replies.

I hope no one comes on here and tells you to ignore your engineer and proceed with backfilling prior to your grout reaching full strength. There's just no way any of us can know. I do know that you have a fairly tall retaining wall with no lateral support from the structure yet.

I don't know that I'd backfill it at all until you do regardless of grout strength. It looks like you are in a pretty dry area and if your backfill material is too, you'd probably be fine but if you take your contractor's advice, I'd want to be certain, he's prepared to replace it if it topples over.

Things are looking good. Looking forward to future progress.

I may be misinterpreting your comment, but there will be no lateral support from the structure, the wall is separate. It is dry fill, don't get much rain during SOCAL summers. GC said he plans to explore a cure accelerant and see if he can reach a compromise with the engineer.

 

[ConCretin]

Appreciate the replies.



I may be misinterpreting your comment, but there will be no lateral support from the structure, the wall is separate. It is dry fill, don't get much rain during SOCAL summers. GC said he plans to explore a cure accelerant and see if he can reach a compromise with the engineer.

My mistake. I assumed the wall was part of the building rather than a free standing structure. Carry on.

 

[70runner]

My mistake. I assumed the wall was part of the building rather than a free standing structure. Carry on.

No problemo. Appreciate your comments.

 

[70runner]

Day44, very busy thanks to arrival of delivery truck with steel structure about 10min before arrival of concrete truck with remaining wall grout pour.

Nice quiet morning breakfast interrupted by doorbell with delivery driver and wall foreman wondering how/where to unload building. Considerable pre-planning for delivery truck to arrive AFTER departure of concrete truck went to hell in a handbasket. Delivery truck was a 30ft flatbed loaded with about 6 bundles, 6 pallets, 2 rollup doors comprising 6800lbs of steel building. While I was examining load, concrete truck shows up. We have to move the delivery truck from driveway entrance to allow concrete truck entry. No way could the flatbed get up my 200ft driveway.

Urgent call to my GC, help! He was on planned schedule which had delivery truck arriving after cement truck departure. Private road to my property/driveway is narrow making it difficult to stage a forklift or large tractor with fork attachment to remove load, so orig plan was to stage about 5 guys to unload delivery by hand. The bundles were marked with weight and the largest (roof and wall panels) was 1500lbs. That's just about the limit of my Kubota B26 with fork attachment, so decided I would unload with Kubota so driver could be on his way. The heavy one, I could curl it and barely got it off the flatbed, so the driver drove the flatbed away so I could maneuver the tractor/load. It's also the most critical bundle with dozens of large steel panels. Nervous city. Below is a video by my daughter of me removing the 2nd largest bundle (steel columns and such), 1400lbs, with the flatbed driving away. I think it provides a sense of the tight quarters.

My driveway entry has a couple of block walls with lights flanked by a couple trees. Concrete trucks can barely get through, the flatbed no way. The two heavy bundles were too wide to fit through the entry, so placed them at entry area. Most everything else I could Kubota up the driveway to the construction area. For the 2 large bundles we cut the straps and loaded onto my 16ft car trailer. By this time we had about 5 guys to help, so we loaded a couple heavy panels and columns at a time. When I fabricated the QA fork for the B26 I added a hitch receiver to be able to move around the trailer. Pushed the loaded trailer up the driveway to the const area with the Kubota. Trailer below along with my trusty Kubota that has saved my **** and protected by back muscles for nearly 20yrs.

 

[70runner]

Day45. Began waterproofing the retaining wall, coat of Tremco GC250 polyurethane membrane.

 

[billconner]

Will you have drainage around retaining wall? 12" and 8" block?

 

[MacTexas]

Subscribed I want to see the finished product.

 

[70runner]

Will you have drainage around retaining wall? 12" and 8" block?

Yes, plan is for a lower drain covered by gravel, as well as an upper drain.

Used 12" block on rear and about 1/2 the side wall, transitioned to 8" block about halfway up.

 

[70runner]

Some years back, a new neighbor across the street built their house with a concrete walled basement. When it was back filled, part of the basement wall was collapsed by the backfill soil. Decisison to backfill maybe by the house contractor. Moral: Better safe than sorry.

An element of my rationale for doing the structure separate from the retaining wall, with a 4' walkway. A retaining wall problem doesn't necessarily involve the structure.

 

[70runner]

A bit of a lull in the project, allowing the wall grout pour to cure. Opportunity to repair a broken grove irrigation line that unfortunately was apparently located under the middle of about 600yds of excavated dirt adjacent to the construction site. The day after a grove watering cycle noticed a wet trail that appeared to originate at the center of the excavated dirt pile. Climbed to the top and marked the origin of the wet trail with a pvc pipe, which can be seen in the video.

The grader who did the original excavation returned with his nearly brand new Bobcat E50 excavator to remove dirt to access the irrigation line. Took about 40min to locate the broken line which was apparently crushed during the initial excavation. Would have taken me a week with the Kubota. The E50 was very impressive.

 

[70runner]

Day68. After a 26 day delay to allow curing of the wall grout, construction resumed today. Gravel was delivered early. Lower french drain was positioned. Then backfill began, initially gravel then dirt. A bit of a tag team was used for the dirt. The skid steer moved dirt from the excavation pile adjacent to the worksite, then the bobcat excavator lifted the dirt over the 9ft wall.