Homemade electrolysis. What do you use?

[Outlawmws]

With that exact configuration, you are probability right, but for people that don't have a better understanding of what is actually happening, it's a bad practice as they could easily make the (wrong) assumption that if it's OK here, why not there?

Hence my stance. We are none of us "experts" and good practices mean fewer mistakes. (Like reversing the polarity to clean the anodes; Nothing wrong with it, but the copper would NOT be OK if left on the now sacrificial "part")

 

[Fretters]

Those are very good points.

 

[G20-Budo]

Fretters,

Not to worry, I got an email from drivesitfar last night while I was still up (around 11pm my time). So I ran out there and switched the leads. I still can't get over how much junk is on top of the water. This morning I unplugged it, scraped the top of the gunk off, reconnected the leads and turned it back on.

I just now went out to look at it, this is what I found.

 

[taumac]

I heard that on a YouTube video about reversing polarity. I'm glad we are having this discussion here cause most of the videos on there are 90% about set up and not about maybe power settings and other helpful stuff.



Have a good one, Gerard

Florida GJers ( FGJ)
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/group.php?groupid=117

The 5 Stitches Garage
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=211899

 

[zkling]

Kyle, you may want to throw a brace across the top of that tank, otherwise that crack might grow and you will be in for a surprise.

 

[G20-Budo]

What kind of brace? The vise is just sitting on the bottom.

 

[zkling]

I'm talking about from the water pressure. Like an aquarium brace to span the top. A 2x4 with blocks nailed at specific length would be just fine.

 

[G20-Budo]

Ok, let me see if I can find something to use.. thanks.

 

[MTW]

Have a look at these threads.
http://garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=202906&highlight=industrial+grade+deruster

http://garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20901&highlight=electrolysis

Ω

 

[taumac]

If can see if you could find another container and double it up for strength. If not for this time definitely for next.



Have a good one, Gerard

Florida GJers ( FGJ)
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/group.php?groupid=117

The 5 Stitches Garage
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=211899

 

[Fretters]

Fretters,

Not to worry, I got an email from drivesitfar last night while I was still up (around 11pm my time). So I ran out there and switched the leads.

Good to hear.

 

[taumac]

Your sacrificial rods I hear after time will need to be replaced. I've ran my system a dozen times and and seen some deterioration in material.

I do have to correct myself. I used some rusty rebar and just cleaned it only to weld it together. Until I ran system few times and reversed it to clean my setup didn't realize how bad rust was.



Have a good one, Gerard

Florida GJers ( FGJ)
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/group.php?groupid=117

The 5 Stitches Garage
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=211899

 

[G20-Budo]

Pretty much the same here. Soft brass or stainless brush else those green pan scourers, the soft plasticy type. Tub of water to either dunk the piece in else to just keep dunking the brush/scourer in if it's a large piece, and go to work scrubbing. Then either pour boiling water over it or wipe down and then go over it with a rag soaked with white spirit, to just get it dry as quickly as possible. Any fine rust which may appear then is easily removed by a wipe down with a spirit soaked rag before painting.

That black stuff is a cow to get off your hands, ain't it.

Fretters, what kind of spirit are you talking about? Like a paint thinner kind of solvent? I need something to coat the vise pieces with as soon as I take them out so they don't rust too badly, but I want to use something that won't cause an issue with paint sticking.

Here is a status update.

So I went ahead and pulled my vise out of the tank yesterday morning. And this is what it looked like (sorry for the crappy picture quality).

Now the vise might not look that clean to you, but if you look at the last pic, I took a wire wheel (just by hand) and scraped it across the surface, you can see how the thin layer of stuff came off. So just to be clear, I did not hit that area with a wire wheel on a machine, bench grinder or anything..that was just brushing it once back and forth with my hand.

Then I left the vise sitting out for the rest of the day and it was covered with rust when I came home. Not a big deal.

Another big plus here is I was able to easily remove the slide now. There was some built up grease or something keeping the slide from coming all of the way out before I electrolysis tanked it. I have the long screw (forgot the proper name for it) in the tank right now. I'll remove it later today and put the slide in. Then I'll clean the base.

And here are the rods, I removed them to clean them. Think some rust got built up on them?

 

[Fretters]

What you refer to as mineral spirit over there. When you take it out of the tank and get the loose crud off, either pour boiling water all over it to get it hot and dry it quickly else dry it with a rag and then wipe it over with a rag soaked in white, (mineral), spirit. Unless you coat it with something pretty much straight away, most things tend to get a fine layer of rust reforming. It's easily removed by wiping over with a spirit soaked rag again though, and the fine rust layer has less tendency to reappear after a second wipe down, provided conditions are dry where the piece is being stored.

End of the day, it's pretty much a losing battle trying to get rid of rust completely. Neutralising what is already there and minimising fresh formation are the primary concerns. Once you coat it with whatever you're coating it with, the surface is then sealed from the atmosphere so it shouldn't progress any further. Remove moisture, oxygen or both from the equation and rust won't form.

 

[G20-Budo]

Thanks Fretters. Yeah, I've got a can of mineral spirits on the shelf. As I tank the rest of my pieces, I'll wipe them down as soon as I get them out. I know a small amount of surface rust won't be that big of deal using rustoleum. I'm just excited to have my project moving forward and getting some use out of this electrolysis tub. Pretty cool considering I made it from stuff laying around the garage.

 

[Fretters]

Guess which muppet has gone and punctured the liner in his large tank. It's a slow leak, so I'm going to have to keep topping up whilst the current piece is in there. I'll be damned if it's coming out before it's done. Gone totally against the grain of my usual method and added a small amount of caustic soda, (lye), in there, due to the leak, to aid with paint removal and to speed the process up somewhat.

 

[Outlawmws]

Is the leak accessible? Can you get to it with something to pack it with? i.e RTV, chewing gum, tar, soft wax... Not a perm fix but it's low pressure and you can at least minimize it.

 

[Fretters]

Is the leak accessible? Can you get to it with something to pack it with? i.e RTV, chewing gum, tar, soft wax... Not a perm fix but it's low pressure and you can at least minimize it.

No idea as to its exact location at the moment, and I only found out after the piece had been in there a short while. Loathe to pull it out until I have to due to the weight, and I'm guessing anything would be unlikely to stick, even temporarily, to the plastic whilst it's wet?

It's my own fault. This rear column/leg for the Drummond is a fair old size and weight, and hefting it in on my own meant I had to slide it in to a degree. Either that else I'd have likely overbalanced and followed it in. I've obviously snagged the liner somewhere along the line.

Was planning on just keep topping it up overnight and then pulling the leg out tomorrow and working on the tank then. The amount of current I have it pulling at the moment due to the addition of the caustic soda and another plate should hopefully have all of the rust off by then, (it wasn't actually too bad to start with barring the bottom portion where it's been touching the floor), and I've got enough excess water above the piece to cover four to five hours or so between each top-up, if I've worked it out correctly. Should be doable, I hope.

 

[drivesitfar]

Fretters: sorry to hear your tank as a leak. I was wondering if that might happen with your design, but i'm guessing that you've used it maybe a hundred times before it finally did. i can't remember you saying what material you used to line your wood box or did you say in an earlier post?

if you can't patch it would you just make a new liner or have you managed to find an old cast iron tub or other big tank to use because as much iron as you turn from a rust bucket to gem i'm sure you'll need to have one.

by the way any pictures of the items before and after the tank to share? also i think you mentioned about the black dust or residue when coming out of the tank is a bear to get off your hands if you get some on you. do you use plastic gloves or just pressure wash it to keep that from happening.

i'm wishing you the best getting the "little" piece out of the tank since putting it in was a bit difficult sounds like.

 

[Fretters]

It's just bog standard heavy gauge DPM which it's lined with, so not too much of a problem if I need to replace it. It's folding the stuff into the corners which is the worst part. That stuff does not fold easily. Hopefully it'll be repairable without replacement though, fingers crossed.

I've a memory like a sieve on the photo's. Keep meaning to take one before I put stuff in, but I always seem to forget with the larger stuff. I'll take one of the other leg though. That's already been in the tank, but hasn't been cleaned up fully as yet.

With regards the black stuff, washing up liquid, (and a kitchen sponge scourer if necessary), on my hands when done. Don't tend to wear gloves if I can help it. I always find them more of a hindrance than a help, personally. I'd rather scrub down afterwards. Worst case scenario if the washing up liquid doesn't clean the hands, white spirit shifts the stuff quite well.

Aye, getting it back out should be fun. It's just one of those weird size, weight & shape combinations. Non of those are problematic as such on their own, but combine them into one thing and you end up with something which is an awkward devil to manhandle, and when you're stood up against a flat surface trying to lift something over, you can't readily alter your stance to compensate for the weight shift.

 

[Fretters]

Managed to get a day or so in the vat with the plinth, so both legs are derusted now. Various stages of cleanup after removing the plinth from the vat. Still needed some scraping to remove paint here.

Most of the paint scraped off.

After a scrub with a scourer and wiped down several times with a spirit soaked rag,

Both legs ready for painting.

First coat of paint on the small leg and first coat on inner surface of the plinth.

Most of the rust with those legs was down the bottom end. The lathe came from a farm, so had likely been stood in a less than ideal spot, moisture wise, plus had suffered acid washes during the foot and mouth outbreaks etc.

This is about the best photo I have showing the legs originally.

 

[G20-Budo]

Looking good there Fretters.. Can't wait to see it all assembled.

Edit after your edit: Will look nearly like new when you're finished!

 

[Fretters]

Me too. This machine has been sat here for about three years, as a pile of bits. At least once these legs are done, there's only the bed left to derust and paint, then some minor gear repairs in the apron, and then she'll be ready for reassembly.

 

[G20-Budo]

Three years huh? Well I guess I don't feel as bad about my vise now. It's only been sitting around for like 4-5 months.

My car and home projects...some of those have been sitting for years, but I'll leave that alone. I did post more pics of my GJ vise over in the vise thread. It's cleaning up very nicely now. I'm not starting to look around for which color and finish of paint to use.

This electrolysis tank deal has turned out great for me...considered I made it from parts laying around the garage and backyard.

 

[Fretters]

I'm just about to catch up on the vice thread. It's amazing how many pages appear within a day or two of not reading it.

They're handy things the electrolysis tanks, aren't they. As you say, made with readily available items too, which is a big plus point. Been gradually doing the various parts of this lathe for months, on and off, using just electrolysis. A time consuming task, but the end result is worth it. The bed's going to need another container making for it though, as that's 50" long, so just a bit too long to fit in the large tank.

 

[G20-Budo]

Was there any oil/grease on your lathe legs? I'm wondering if I should poor out my water and start over? The old vise had a lot of old grease/dust/whatever on it. And of course rust. I don't know how often you guys cycle the water in your tanks?

 

[Outlawmws]

Get the heavy stuff off, but think about what many add to make it into the required "soup": Washing soda. Which is soap. A light coating of oil won't affect it much, and will "wash" off...

PH plus is the same. It even feels soapy after you mix it...

 

[Fretters]

As Outlaw says, sodium carbonate is literally a soap, so a bit of grease, oil etc. won't be a problem, and solids tend to settle to the bottom of the vat within a day or two of inactivity. The more you can get off before immersing the part the better, but it won't hurt if there's some crud other than rust on there. Worst thing it will generally do is slow the process down somewhat.

 

[taumac]

I had to break out my setup so thought snap few pics of it setup. Needed to derust these clamps.

So here's my setup working


Here's what I use when I don't have washing soda.


I trying something different. Running it on 10 amp charge vs my normal 55 amp jump start mode.


Have a good one, Gerard

Florida GJers ( FGJ)
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/group.php?groupid=117
The 5 Stitches Garage
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=211899

 

[G20-Budo]

Gerard,

I like the way you made the frame so it just fits into the tub. What are the bars of the frame made of?

 

[taumac]

Thanks, Its just some old rebar I found somewhere. I got tired of clamping rebar to sides and running wire to each post. The back bar worked out that I can hang my charger from it. I prefer to clamp down a piece of wood across the cage bars which I spring clamp wires down and can hang stuff from if needed.

Have a good one, Gerard

Florida GJers ( FGJ)
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/group.php?groupid=117
The 5 Stitches Garage
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=211899

 

[drivesitfar]

Taumac: i also like your welded rebar setup. just curious the majority seem to say that you shouldn't put the negative connection into the water. we have all been hanging our items from metal wire or hangers and attaching the negative above and out of the water.

any side effects you've noticed by letting it sit in the water? some say that the copper which is usually in the connections will turn our metal greenish that needs to be washed, wiped or ground off after the rust is gone.

thanks for sharing your E tank with us because pictures always help us understand better ways to get it done or possible issues.

 

[taumac]

I have noticed greenish tint to water but nothing really on metal. After the process I usually scrub project with some wire or nylon brushes and rinse off. Then I use my propane torch to dry it.
If anything I do notice light flash rust after the torch and I can solve that by wire wheel if keeping bare or I don't touch it if I'm going to paint it. I have notice on vises if I wire wheel it paint doesn't "STICK" that well.


Have a good one, Gerard

Florida GJers ( FGJ)
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/group.php?groupid=117
The 5 Stitches Garage
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=211899

 

[Fretters]

Taumac: i also like your welded rebar setup. just curious the majority seem to say that you shouldn't put the negative connection into the water. we have all been hanging our items from metal wire or hangers and attaching the negative above and out of the water.

any side effects you've noticed by letting it sit in the water? some say that the copper which is usually in the connections will turn our metal greenish that needs to be washed, wiped or ground off after the rust is gone.

The main reasons for not doing it are simply that the spring on a croc clip might go brittle for a while, plus what Outlaw mentions regarding if the connections are accidentally reversed. That would definitely be detrimental.

Copper, brass, bronze on the neg won't introduce anything into the mix. On the pos it's a different matter entirely. You can even clean copper based materials with electrolysis. It's merely the accidental connection reversal thing which can be problematic, for several reasons.

 

[JeremyBurke]

I may be an idiot for starting with this tool but I just put the dynamic jaw from this vise in me first e-tank. How long should I let it soak.









Thanks guys.

 

[gilbo]

I may be an idiot for starting with this tool but I just put the dynamic jaw from this vise in me first e-tank. How long should I let it soak.

let it ******, and go have a few cold ones (plural), and come back in a few hours, if it not ready, let it soak more then go have a few more cold ones.

 

[JeremyBurke]

let it ******, and go have a few cold ones (plural), and come back in a few hours, if it not ready, let it soak more then go have a few more cold ones.

Thanks for the tip. I have about 3 hours until my lovely wife and I head out to celebrate our 12th. I guess I should stop it about then?

 

[Outlawmws]

Polarity is right, you should be fine.

Probably 4-6 hours with fresh clean anodes. As said, if not done, go again...

What power supply/voltage?

 

[JeremyBurke]

What power supply/voltage?

If you can't see it's set to 6amp 12v. Is that ok? I can change to 2a 12v or 6A 6v.

 

[JeremyBurke]

It is cooking well.