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Ideas on best wifi setup...

Showkey

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TOTALLY FALSE.

Ive worked on newer schools and hotels. Even been sent the plans for new hotel builds. THEY ALL had wired connections in EVERY ROOM!

Sorry but that’s ancient history in my world.........10 years ago the conference rooms all had Ethernet jacks and the permanent desks had docking stations. Blue cable coming out the floor. Everyone plugged it. We would go back to switch to connect all floor Jacks as they were unplugged for security reasons when not in use. All in the past........

Neither are used today, I have NOT plugged a lap top in the last 10 years. The wired docking station is history.

I now have one device that actually has an Ethernet port......a laptop, that never gets used.
 
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Git

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I now have one device that actually has an Ethernet port......a laptop, that never gets used.

I agree, but we recently bought a LG Gram laptop from Costco and it came with a USB Type-C to Ethernet adapter. Could come in handy...
 

aggie113

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For one of my sister's houses I went with a simple combination setup. They needed three distinct locations of coverage. One, of course, was next to the main router so a simple job to connect an AP at that location. The other two were spread out. Using a GB ethernet over powerline setup to the two other locations and then a small switch at one location that had multiple A/V devices that could be wired up and also AP's at both EoP points. Gives a good blend of wireless and wired even it it's not perfect with the ethernet over power.
I went with the Google WiFi products as it was simple for my sister to control from her phone and take advantage of it's features.
 

loganb

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UDM-Pro........$379
AP LR............$110
standard AP....$81
nanoHD AP.....$180
$750

Must've lost connection before you could share your point...

Don't recall anyone here saying Ubiquiti was cheap, quality rarely is. Fast, reliable, consistent internet is important for me and something I value so I paid for what I felt was the best solution for me. When I work from home when not traveling and daily have to upload/download 1GB+ files as well as engage with customers on video calls, sporadic internet isn't acceptable

If you bought the UDM-pro for UTM(universal threat management), its a waste of money.

Nope, honestly don't care 1 bit about UTM

Neither are used today, I have NOT plugged a lap top in the last 10 years. The wired docking station is history.

In your world they may be, outside of it I can tell you they're not. The company who writes my checks uses the wired docking station extensively as when you have employees who both need mobility and the ability to drive multiple external monitors at their desk...wired docking stations are still the most reliable and easy to use solution...and this is a company with thousands of devices across at least a dozen sites, not a handful of devices. It's also not unique to my company, when I visit customers they're generally in the same situation, laptop driving external monitors via a docking station

You've also excluded a large category of workplaces where wireless isn't allowed due to security concerns so all devices are hardwired...

Regardless....that's not the point of this thread. Advice/suggestions were requested, I've given mine and shared a bit of why I recommended it. Happy to contribute back to the original topic, otherwise I'm done
 

Denwood

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I've used TPlink in various settings (including some commercial) and have zero complaints. They are generally low cost, reliable, but not at the top of the heap where performance is concerned. That M5 system is AC1300 only, and there is no dedicated backhaul frequency. They do have gigabit ports on each unit, so you can (and should) use an ethernet cable back haul if you can. The system does use node steering on a common SID so if you're walking around, at least it will pass you along to the best node for speed.

For a wired access point (which is what any of us industry guys will recommend) this TPLINK AC1750 is at a good price point ($89 CAD) and has a gigabit port. It just needs to be set up as an access point instead of repeater. I use one in my home shop. I also use a Netgear EX7000 again using the same SID and set up as a wired access point. These cover our 150x60 ft lot/house/garage just fine.

To contrast, the Netgear Orbi does use a dedicated backhaul, much faster WIFI, and consequently tests much higher for performance. You do pay more for it though.

I don't use or recommend Ubiquity stuff for home guys. I do however use a lot of it commercially and strongly recommend their POE switches, WIFI etc. because they are reliable and have thought out single point management across sites quite nicely. I have four sites using wireless bridges using the Nanobeam 5AC (with redundancy) and they are rock solid. Again, for a commercially managed wifi system, the Ubiqity AC-Pro devices are great, but not necessarily that quick in terms of raw speed.
 
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pizza

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Again, for a commercially managed wifi system, the Ubiqity AC-Pro devices are great, but not necessarily that quick in terms of raw speed.

are you commenting on unifi APs in general or specifically on the AP AC Pro? just asking because that's one of their older APs, and i wasn't sure about what you're comparing it to.
 

wyliesdiesels

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Sorry but that’s ancient history in my world.........10 years ago the conference rooms all had Ethernet jacks and the permanent desks had docking stations. Blue cable coming out the floor. Everyone plugged it. We would go back to switch to connect all floor Jacks as they were unplugged for security reasons when not in use. All in the past........

Neither are used today, I have NOT plugged a laptop in the last 10 years. The wired docking station is history.

I now have one device that actually has an Ethernet port......a laptop, that never gets used.

Ancient history to you does not mean it is for others. As i previously stated, brand NEW hotels AND schools are getting WIRED jacks in their rooms. So youre speaking about an isolated case in your neck of the woods.

I pull cabling, among many other things, for a living as a licensed contractor and deal with this stuff daily. your experience with wired jacks is an isolated case....

As to docking stations being history, thats BS as well. Ive been to 3 different companies in the last week that had dozens of docking stations at each site. As said above, driving multiple external monitors.... again your experience is NOT what the majority is using...
 

Showkey

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As far as the BS........

Clips from another forum on the topic of wired vs wireless:

“I specifically asked one hotel if the internet connection was wired - oh yes they said, and guess what? Yep wireless only when I arrived!“

“I've been finding that in hotels that have wall jacks, 90% are disconnected. Agree you will only find them in hotels that were built or upgraded between the time high speed internet started”

“Ethernet always better than wifi ... when you find it! And you don't anymore in most of the cases to the extent new laptops simply scrap the ethernet port... I have an adaptor USB-C - Ethernet for mine, but it wasn't easy to find. Oh well...“
 

Denwood

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As far as the BS........

Clips from another forum on the topic of wired vs wireless:

“I specifically asked one hotel if the internet connection was wired - oh yes they said, and guess what? Yep wireless only when I arrived!“

“I've been finding that in hotels that have wall jacks, 90% are disconnected. Agree you will only find them in hotels that were built or upgraded between the time high speed internet started”

“Ethernet always better than wifi ... when you find it! And you don't anymore in most of the cases to the extent new laptops simply scrap the ethernet port... I have an adaptor USB-C - Ethernet for mine, but it wasn't easy to find. Oh well...“

Among other things, I support about 60 laptops with VPN (at both ends) and I can tell you that our spec for new hardware includes an Ethernet port. Now that’s a difficult job with slim laptops but there is always USBC. Try loading an image over wifi and you’ll see what I mean.

Wylies, pfsense is what I’ve been using for 10 years. It’s rock solid and will spank a Cisco router for price/features/performance. It’s also got OpenVPN built in which is a license free way to get a lot of folks remotely (and securely) connected. I’m just using fanless Qotom Core i5 7200U Boxes with 128GB SSD and 8GB of RAM...about $400. That box will route gigabit with zero issues, and more importantly supports AES-NI encryption on chip to allow 580Mbps for an OpenVPN AES-256 GCM encrypted connection. We use them with digital certificates, 256bit AES GCM, and AD lookup for passwords to make OpenVPN a solid remote solution. Other than a Snort subscription (it’s owned by Cisco, go figure) to add world class UTM and you’re set at very low cost. Pfsense is also very effective at load balancing with a ton of options when using redundant WAN. You can define 2 WAN ports or 10 if you want. Not for the home user, but it’s all I use commercially. I have about 10 boxes in current use, one network supports four businesses (which all pipe back to one head office (5 sites) and another non-profit (day job) using six of them with 24/7 inter-site IPSEC tunnels etc. You can also back up and restore a bare metal router in about 5 minutes if needed. To top it off, OpenVPN works well on iOS which is super handy to diagnose ISP outages etc. by securely connecting to routers and networks using my phone.

For home use, pFsense is handy if you're doing VPN at home (like ExpressVPN) and want to setup multiple load balanced tunnels to route the entire household (with exceptions if desired) over VPN. In i5 flavor, the boxes don't break a sweat with 20 inbound OpenVPN connects, Snort UTM, and six IPSEC site tunnels with CPU averaging 5%. I don't recommend pfsense in GJ threads typically because configuration is beyond most home users.

For the OP, given six family members and no desire to run wire or learn router OS's, the Netgear ORBI router/satellite system is still my pick :)
 
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Git

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I don't recommend pfsense in GJ threads typically because configuration is beyond most home users.

Anyone interested in pfSense - I would strongly suggest Lawrence Systems YouTube channel. (He also does a lot of Unifi stuff)

Tom just did a new pfSense tutorial 3 weeks ago with the latest version

He also did a new Suricata tutorial
 

Denwood

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Anyone interested in pfSense - I would strongly suggest Lawrence Systems YouTube channel. (He also does a lot of Unifi stuff)

Tom just did a new pfSense tutorial 3 weeks ago with the latest version

He also did a new Suricata tutorial

+1. A great source. I have to setup pfblocker for a street reach ministry with public kiosks...Tom is where I'm starting :) There is a very tech savvy pfsense crowd out there that also post a lot. These resources have saved me days of time.
 

liliysdad

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Like most things on this forum....the question was answered with a ridiculous amount of nonsense from geeked out gaming needs to high end business network specs.

Just like 98% of the folks on earth don't need a set of Snap On wrenches to change their oil, the vast majority are more than happy with basic, simple WiFi setups. Sadly, "good enough" is a term treated with derision on this site.......but I'll be damned if its not entertaining to watch the pecker measuring.
 

Denwood

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Like most things on this forum....the question was answered with a ridiculous amount of nonsense from geeked out gaming needs to high end business network specs.

Just like 98% of the folks on earth don't need a set of Snap On wrenches to change their oil, the vast majority are more than happy with basic, simple WiFi setups. Sadly, "good enough" is a term treated with derision on this site.......but I'll be damned if its not entertaining to watch the pecker measuring.

IT guys in a pecker match. Good one, ha.
 
OP
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DelayedZ

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I've enjoyed all the info, although it has made my decision harder.

I was debating on reusing my modem, but upon further research and the wall of information. That ship has sailed. Once I read all the different options I'll pick something. I need to get it done sooner then later. I would like it for gaming, my wife would like it for her nursing school, and now with the kids going partial remote schooling I want them to have a good connection as well. And while I'm relatively comfortable in the IT world, mesh setups have been something I've been blissfully ignorant on but seems like the right setup for what I consider not my forever home.

I appreciate everyone's insight, however it has given me homework, haha.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using The Garage Journal mobile app
 

larry4406

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This thread has been a good read, thanks all for your contributions.

Now going down a rabbit hole of reading about Netgear Orbi and Samsung SmartThings Wifi Mesh Router.
 
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AffableCurmudgeon

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This is what I have done:

I bought six Apple Airport Extremes on CL and OfferUp. The average cost was around $15 per unit. These are all dual band units.

I ran cat 6 to 2 locations per floor; basement, 1st floor and second floor. Installed one AirPort Extreme to each wire. Each wire is home run to a central switch. Each unit has 3 GB Ethernet ports as well that can be used for entertainment center equipment, desktop computers, gaming consoles etc.

One router is configured to provide DHCP, the other 5 just extend the network in bridge mode. All WiFi networks are configured with the same security, network name and password.

All devices find the nearest strongest signal and reconnect to the best signal when moved.

The entire 5,500+ square foot house has excellent coverage for less than $100.
 

Denwood

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So for mesh, the Smarthings system, like the Tplink M5 does not have a dedicated wireless band for backhaul, and is AC1300 class (slower) wifi. Take a good look at the Netgear Orbi or Tplink M9 mesh systems if performance with a larger family is a criteria.

I have a few years experience with the Smarthings hub with 200+ devices, blah blah. Zwave and Zigbee powered devices already have the mesh protocol baked in, so buying a slower wifi mesh system from them would be a bit redundant as you can just add their hub (cheaper) to your system for automation and let the Zigbee/Zwave wireless networks take care of their mesh.

Now what is special about the Smarthings Mesh system is this. Say you want to extend your automation system to an outbuilding 200 ft away from your house with buried LAN cable to it. The ST mesh devices can be LAN wired in access points, meaning now your WIFI and Zigbee/Zwave mesh is extended over a LAN connection. That is a big deal. Zigbee/Zwave networks are low power, so extending your mesh over LAN solves a lot of outbuilding challenges. Yet another reason to make sure new outbuildings/shops have a few LAN or fiber drops run.
 
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Git

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Z-Wave uses it's own mesh network at 908.42 MHz.

I *think* what Denwood is talking about is using Home Automation Devices where you have a secondary building or area that is too far away from the main building where the hub/controller is to connect. (you want to control lighting devices, etc in the secondary building)

When it comes to WiFi - yes, the ORBI could be hard wired out to the secondary building to extend your WIFI mesh out there.

I use HomeSeer for my Home Automation and I am not that familiar with Smart Things (always looking to learn). HomeSeer also has a device where you could connect a secondary building to your main system for Home Automation: (note - I don't have any experience with it though)

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Denwood

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Git, yes exactly. Zigbee is at 2.4GHz, and Zwave at 908MHz. An automation system will have mix of these generally, and each one needs it's own mesh. When you have a longer hop outdoors, the low power inherent in these radios makes a reliable extended mesh sometimes a challenge. I have zero experience with HomeSeer but did develop a commercial network based on Vera. Vera, like Homeseer originally was a Zwave only shop but has extended now to supporting Zigbee on their newer stuff. I have a Hubitat hub on order as I'm interested in a 100% local processing solution for automation. Vera and Homeseer both support ethernet connected extenders to their hubs which is a very good thing. Unlike Smarthings, they also have a backup and restore option which is huge IMHO.

So the Smarthings mesh system does extend WIFI, Zigbee and Zwave and might be a good choice if you're doing automation from scratch on a larger site with outbuildings. Sadly there is no upgrade path for existing Smarthings users (so you can't just integrate to your existing setup), and the WIFI system is not all that great. Given the choice, I'd connect their satellites using the ethernet back haul port provided.

Larry, the Orbi system though is a much faster WIFI system with a dedicated backhaul and yes, would extend any WIFI automation bits. You'll find WIFI is never used with any battery powered (like motion sensors) automation devices as it uses way too much power.
 
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DelayedZ

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Just as an update ended up turning into a bit more of a project. Had xfinity come out to resolve some connection issues, turns out whoever originally cabled my house was an ****** and had unnecessary splitters everywhere degraded my signal to almost unusable. Once we cleared up that. I helped the guy recable a lot of the house, which brought our service back up. Went from -16 in some areas back to 0. He said the service should stop functioning correctly at -13 so that's why we were so ******. Also found out the pole coming to our house has damaged wiring and they're coming to fix that today.

After he left I went out and snagged the Eero setup and a new cable modem, the whole house has coverage along with the back porch and front porch. I do have signal in the garage but I plan on buying one more Eero unit to get a bit further out.

So much better, have signal everywhere, no dead spots. Kids are good for distance learning, wife is good for nursing, and I'm good for everything else, haha.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using The Garage Journal mobile app
 
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DelayedZ

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DelayedZ - What sold you on the Eero setup vs others?

Availability, and cost.

I'm guessing cost :) That system does have a dedicated back haul...just a bit slower on the WIFI spec.

De, glad you got sorted :)


I spent more on the modem then I wanted due to availability so it made my choice for me, haha. That and the options were extremely limited. Best Buy had almost nothing, it was wiped out. Most likely for the same reason I was changing my system out.


I could have probably gotten a better system if I had waited for Amazon to ship to me but I was in the instant gratification mood which didn't help either.



Edit - Oh and making the jump to this is so much better, also I found another 3rd Gen Eero to link to the system so I'll have a total of 4. I plan on putting one directly in the garage.
 
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larry4406

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Availability, and cost.




I spent more on the modem then I wanted due to availability so it made my choice for me, haha. That and the options were extremely limited. Best Buy had almost nothing, it was wiped out. Most likely for the same reason I was changing my system out.


I could have probably gotten a better system if I had waited for Amazon to ship to me but I was in the instant gratification mood which didn't help either.



Edit - Oh and making the jump to this is so much better, also I found another 3rd Gen Eero to link to the system so I'll have a total of 4. I plan on putting one directly in the garage.

What modem you buy? I need to get off the xfinity monthly rental of modem/router gateway.
 

wyliesdiesels

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Availability, and cost.

I spent more on the modem then I wanted due to availability so it made my choice for me, haha. That and the options were extremely limited. Best Buy had almost nothing, it was wiped out. Most likely for the same reason I was changing my system out.


I could have probably gotten a better system if I had waited for Amazon to ship to me but I was in the instant gratification mood which didn't help either.



Edit - Oh and making the jump to this is so much better, also I found another 3rd Gen Eero to link to the system so I'll have a total of 4. I plan on putting one directly in the garage.

What did you spend on it?

couldve bought one on amazon for cheaper

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07N7QK8Z5/?tag=atomicindus08-20
 

wyliesdiesels

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wyliesdiesels

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theoldwizard1

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but its not hard to find a modem that is on the approved list
True, if it just a modem !

If it is a modem, router, WAP and your IP says "It should be DOCSIS 3.1" it starts getting expensive/limited.

Now if you want a full "residential gateway" (modem, router, WAP, VOIP port) and DOCSIS 3.1, FORGET ABOUT BUYING ONE ! Arris makes them, but the demand from IPs is so high they do not sell them retail.


For those not "in the networking game" ARRIS bought out the Motorola Surfboard network products a few years. In the past year or so ARRIS has been slowly eliminating both names. Hundreds of thousands of units out there in good used working condition. Still some NOS.
 

wyliesdiesels

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True, if it just a modem !

If it is a modem, router, WAP and your IP says "It should be DOCSIS 3.1" it starts getting expensive/limited.

Now if you want a full "residential gateway" (modem, router, WAP, VOIP port) and DOCSIS 3.1, FORGET ABOUT BUYING ONE ! Arris makes them, but the demand from IPs is so high they do not sell them retail.


For those not "in the networking game" ARRIS bought out the Motorola Surfboard network products a few years. In the past year or so ARRIS has been slowly eliminating both names. Hundreds of thousands of units out there in good used working condition. Still some NOS.

Yeah i dont like the all in one gateways

The wifi strength is subpar and the features on some models is lacking
 

Mesozoic

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I want to preface my remark with the fact that I am currently the "acting" IT manager for an engineering lab (in addition to being a functional engineer), which was recently purchased by a large corporation. I have seen our business grow from 7 people to 35 and finally to 700 folks as part of a new corporate division - I still manage all of it. I am told that I have done a good job and made sound decisions in terms of network equipment selection and overall system architecture. I'll admit that I can definitely still be a bit of a *******, but hopefully some of my experience will help someone here.

Of course, when the building size is small and the number of users are as well, often times a single quality router with good Wifi (dual radio 2.4 and 5 GHz) will do. However, as the building size and population increases, the next step is to consider high powered access points with PoE cable runs to strategic locations. When this is not possible, a mesh router system could be a solution and the best one I have had experience with is from Ubiquiti Networks. Any larger and you'll need to get into commercial/enterprise systems which includes high power dish transmitter/receivers between large air gaps/buildings or just run cable.

As far as the Ubiquiti parts go, the company recently designed a system aimed at the consumer/residential segment. A solid choice for many is their Amplifi HD product, which can be had in a kit with 2 mesh point devices in addition to their router. I believe that system used to be obtainable for around $200, but I'm sure the price has gone up. For a significant boost in throughput and performance, they released the Amplifi Alien system which boasts additional multi-band radios and can theoretically achieve 4x the performance of the Amplifi HD system, which is already very good, but you'll pay for it. Beyond that you will start to get into their enterprise class products, starting with the Dream Machine and UniFi series parts, but the cost starts to really get into another league altogether.

In any case, nothing comes close to the refinement in execution that exists in the Ubiquiti user interfaces. They are genuinely plug and play systems, even at their enterprise level - simple to install and configure, which is clearly one of their engineering team's top design goals. In over 10 years of using Ubiquiti components, we have had zero issues in both enterprise and residential environments.
 

larry4406

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The modem you need depends on your speed.

I have an Arris SB6183 that i bought used on craigslist for $25 and it has worked flawlessly for 2yrs. Good for up to 600Mbps and I just upgraded to 300Mbps/10Mbps and may change to 600Mbps so i can get 15Mbps upload...

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00MA5U1FW/?tag=atomicindus08-20

wyliesdiesel - I have xfinity Blast with 300 Mbps down/10 Mbps up and their monthly rental ARRIS Group, Inc. TG1682G modem/router/wifi gateway all in one device. I have internet only, no voice line.
 

Showkey

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For comparison..........

Spectrum/Charter in my area supplies the modem for no cost ( well included)somewhere in the price. If you choose to use your own modem there no cost reduction.

In the last year they went from 100Mbpd to 200-400 Mbps .......they sent new modems as a self install kit.

This is the new modem:
66481E1B-E68F-4568-B2AD-BE437D7AF31F.jpg

Their old modem in my situation worked fine at 200Mbps. They did require the old modem to be shipped back at their cost. The new equipment with the ORBI has been flawless for over a year.
 
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ddurrett896

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I'm a fan of Google Wifi.

Had the service providers wifi modem + an extender and when we added Nest cameras around the exterior of the house, there were some areas with little to no internet.

Added Google Wifi first and really helped extend the range. Easily covers my lot and then some.
 
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