Impact sockets on hand ratchets

[dchawk81]

Good discussion. Thanks.

Heres the part I’m sure about: Impact wrenches apply enormous torque but don’t damage fasteners because the torque is applied so quickly. If you applied the exact same amount of torque (or much lower) by hand, you’d damage the fastener head. The physics explains the phenomenon we’ve all experienced.

That's not true at all. You can round a fastener with an impact wrench. People do it all the time.

I'm not sure where/why you think physics supports you on this.

The lack of damage is because the socket doesn't touch anywhere near the corners, but if it's a worn socket or a corroded/weak fastener, it'll destroy the fastener.

 

[dchawk81]

Oh and I've actually applied 800+ ft-lbs by hand before (8 foot cheater bar and all my weight) and never destroyed the fasteners. They came off.

I've also used a 20 ton bottle jack and all the weight of the semi truck's corner on a fastener with an impact socket and it didn't round off or destroy anything. It actually didn't budge at all. It lifted the truck.

 

[AEAdam]

Thought I explained this. That’s not right. Think instead about hammering nail or pushing the nail into the wood. The impact produces a high force for a very short time. That shock breaks wood fibers and overcomes the high friction.

We did this in grade school. Yard stick hanging half off the desk. Other half covered with a single sheet of newspaper. Push the yard stick, and the newspaper moves. Smack it fast, and you can snap the yard stick without disturbing the newspaper. Look up impulse and momentum.

The torque applied by an impact wrench is nothing like the torque we could apply by hand. Not comparable.

 

[dchawk81]

Thought I explained this. That’s not right. I think instead about hammering a. Nail and pushing the nail into the wood. The impact produces a high force for a very short time. That shock breaks wood fibers and overcomes the high friction.

We did in grade school. Yard stick hanging half off the desk. Other half covered with a single sheet of newspaper. Push the yard stick, and the newspaper moves. Smack it fast, and you can snap the yard stick without disturbing the newspaper. Look up impulse and momentum.

The torque applied by an impact wrench is nothing like the torque we could apply by hand. Not comparable.

You can push a nail into wood...

 

[AEAdam]

That’s an interesting idea. That the impact socket is created with less precision than a chrome socket. A small amount of sloppiness doesn’t matter as much on an impact because of the nature of how quickly the small impacts occur, you build momentum in the fastener and aren’t applying a crooked load to the fastener head. Even if the socket is sloppy fitting.

I’ll add to your idea. That maybe it isn’t necessarily the impact socket is sloppier by manufacture but that it becomes sloppier over time in use on an impaxt gun because it’s a softer material than chrome, because you don’t want it to shatter, you want it to deform slowly over time rather than build up micro fractures until it shatter.


‘If that’s the case then we can say using new impact sockets on hand ratchets is fine, but once the impact is used as an impact for a while, it deforms a bit and using it on a hand ratchet would result in damaging the fastener. Whereas the sloppy fit doesn’t hurt it’s use on an impact wrench due to nature of how it’s hitting.

Sir Issac Newton says this is true. The only question is what do impact socket makers know and do. What you wrote is scientific fact.

 

[dchawk81]

Sir Issac Newton says this is true. The only question is what do impact socket makers know and do. What you wrote is scientific fact.

Any worn tool is going to more easily round off a fastener than a well fitting new one.

It's true for ****** wrenches made with sloppy tolerances as well. It's why a lot of people pay a premium for the best stuff, especially when they work with potentially compromised fasteners.

It's not really an impact vs chrome socket thing. It's a fitment thing.

 

[bryant 24]

Make

We all know the idea why not to use chrome sockets on impact, and we also hear that using impact sockets on hand ratchets is fine. I however have a question on this. The logic makes sense... the chrome socket is too brittle for the impact and can shatter, whereas the impact sockets are manufactured to handle the impact and should it fail, fail in a crack vs shatter. I am speaking generally. Now when it comes to the other way around, is there a disadvantage to the impact socket on the hand ratchet?

I want to introduce an example using a bit socket. Please consider these images for illustration purposes only.

First we have a chrome style bit socket. These are commonly made with a CR-V socket with a S2 steel pressed in bit, or sometimes the bit is held in with a retaining clip and/or a set screw.



Then there is an impact style, which is often made of a single piece of CR-Mo steel, machined I am told.



So we know that the CR-V socket and the S2 steel is commonly hardened too much for impact use, making it easier to shatter and break. However, the hardness makes it nice for hand use as it does not wear as quickly. Looking at the impact socket, what does it bring to the hand tool? Is this design better than the chrome socket design, even on a hand ratchet? Or is it true that while you can use an impact socket on the hand ratchet, it is not as good as the chrome version, made for the hand ratchet?

It is my belief that the answer here is that the impact socket, a solid piece of machined CR-Mo steel, is a bit too soft and will wear faster than the CR-V and S2 chrome counterpart. However, I am interested in the thoughts of others, especially if any of the manufacturers here wish to provide input

Make the one pc impact S2 material