Is it just me?

[Conductor562]

My dad was a tool guy. Before the years got the best of him he prided himself on his tools and I suppose that trait was passed down to me. He taught me from the very start that if you bought quality stuff you'd only have to buy it once and buying quality meant buying American. When shopping for a tool the first question has always been "where is it made?" Other than very few exceptions I've always held to that philosophy and the vast majority of imports I have were Christmas gifts or something. Even as a young man making barely over minimum wage I saved for an extra payday and shelled out top dollar on brands like Proto, Klein, Channellock, etc. and I don't regret 1 single dollar of it. However, when I see an American company known for quality "think Klein" putting out a bunch of import stuff it pisses me off! Not only do I lose the desire to buy their products, I lose the desire to own them. I catch myself wanting to sell or trade them and reinvest the money into companies who have yet to sell out. Is this weird? Does anyone else do this?

 

[Jarhead0408]

Sometimes. But I can rarely afford to get rid of something that is already paid for, and then essentially have to pay for it a second time. Even if I do get a fair amount for something I'm selling to raise the money for the new tool, since it's not equal to the original purchase price I'm still losing money in the long run. X2 on losing the desire to buy from certain companies though. I have a feeling all my Craftsman ratchets will soon be yanked out of the drawer in favor of Proto's and SK round heads.

 

[Trucky]

I couldn't help but giggle quite a bit while reading this.

You're reading straight from my mind. Every time I go over my very modest tool "collection", I go over each and every one with regards to COO and if it's imported, which model and from what manufacturer can I obtain one made in a country I approve (Think USA, Germany, Japan, etc. Even Taiwan gets the nod from me.) and figure in if the improvement in quality would allow me to purchase it. My most recent "revelation" to this end is my damn leather punch from Ching-chong-wadda-badda. The thing flexes like I borrowed Arnold's biceps from '85 and couldn't punch a hole through air. I'm really looking at an older General or the Knipex model currently made.

I really could have assembled the exact tool set I have now for about 30-40% of the cost. Over 3/4ths of my tools are US made, and that is a fact that I take much pride in. I know that my wallet can't do too much, but I get by knowing that I did my part.

 

[96snma]

This is just my opinion and I know I'm probably not going to change anyones mind and get bashed for it. This is just the way the world is changing. In order to keep competitive companies are forced to do this instead of closing their doors. To want to sell all of your stuff becasue a company started making pliers in tiawan is crazy. I believe to buy quality tools and you will buy it once. There have been many instances where I have acquired import tools that were better quality than there USA made counterparts. An adjustable cresent comes to mind recently. I've got tiawan ones that are way better

Yes it does plan a importance where it is made to me but not to the extent you are stating. If I have the option to buy USA, German, Spanish made for a similar price (ie, 15% more) then I will.

I ask does this desire to buy american made extend to other items besides tools. If not then why is it so important to a buy USA made plier buy not a TV. If you look around your house there is probably 95% that isn't made here. TV, fidge, couch, mattress, cell phone, shoes and cloths are all imported for the most part. so why not spend so much time seeking out american made items like those

 

[Dieselbutterfly]

yes 96snma ,things are bad lets make them worse.if not for people sounding off on this forum it would be,keep that in mind.snap on put usa back on ratchets,why? because people said enough is enough.good work fellas. let the ''oh its just the way the world is going'' people do nothing.

 

[fatfillup]

I don't understand the desire to sell quality tools you already own because the company went off shore. Do understand the desire to buy quality and US for sure. I am tired of Chicrap in tools, auto parts, clothes and most anything else.

 

[bobcatdan]

I always try very hard to buy American made products. Let take Klein as an example, yes there is import stuff and I know to look for it. If it is imported, I put it down, but that is not going to make stop buying their USA products. That is no way to protest a company for importing. Just because Klein sells imported tape measures now doesn't mean my five year old linemans are junk.

 

[jeffmoss26]

I agree, to a point.
Would I buy an imported Klein tool? Hell no. Would I get rid of all of the US made Klein tools I have now? No. I've got too much invested now to sell/trade them all off. Likewise, I've got some older Stanley stuff that was my dad's or got at a garage sale. I won't buy their current tools but I certainly use the stuff I have that was made a lot better.

 

[thebeekeeper1]

In a few years you will have no choice.

 

[dale500]

While I am disappointed that Craftsman is moving production overseas I not thinking about selling my tools. I even made some additions to my set while the US tools are still on their shelves. The craftsman industrial deals at the outlet stores have been to good to pass up.

I don't worry about the warranty since the only thing I have broken in 40 or so years is a couple of ratchets. If I break another one then I will likely replace it with something better. I don't make a living with my tools so I don't need the best of the best. My father made his living using Craftsman tools most of his life. They were affordable, convenient and dependable.

The set I have now will likely take care of any job that comes along for the rest of my life. Will I buy more, of course, but their are other companies selling better quality imported tools for less money than Sears. The Kobalt 7 piece metric flex socket set I just grabbed from Lowes for $15 is well made and will be around longer than I am. There likely be more Kobalt tools finding their way into my box than Craftsman in the future.

Dale

 

[85camaro]

This is just my opinion and I know I'm probably not going to change anyones mind and get bashed for it. This is just the way the world is changing. In order to keep competitive companies are forced to do this instead of closing their doors. To want to sell all of your stuff becasue a company started making pliers in tiawan is crazy. I believe to buy quality tools and you will buy it once. There have been many instances where I have acquired import tools that were better quality than there USA made counterparts. An adjustable cresent comes to mind recently. I've got tiawan ones that are way better

Yes it does plan a importance where it is made to me but not to the extent you are stating. If I have the option to buy USA, German, Spanish made for a similar price (ie, 15% more) then I will.

I ask does this desire to buy american made extend to other items besides tools. If not then why is it so important to a buy USA made plier buy not a TV. If you look around your house there is probably 95% that isn't made here. TV, fidge, couch, mattress, cell phone, shoes and cloths are all imported for the most part. so why not spend so much time seeking out american made items like those

I think the difference is that a company such as Klein, or even Craftsman, always had the reputation of making their products in the U.S. and now that's beginning to change.

Where as Nike, Sony, etc.. never had that tradition of American made to begin with. Now American companies that always used to manufacture their products at home and are now having all/some of their products made over seas are becoming part of the out sourcing culture that many Americans have come to resent.

 

[JSBriggs]

I can understand about not buying the newly imported tools, and even not buying anything else from them again based on principle (even their current USA offerings). But everything in your toolbox is a sunk cost. It makes no sense to replace tools that work for you based on a change in direction of company that made them.

To analogise, it like selling an FJ40 because you think the Prius is dumb.

-Jeff

 

[dandan111]

What really is pisser is when you order something gambling it was made in the USA. It never is.

 

[GortonsFisherman]

The state of things today disgusts me, but no, I do not get the urge to sell off any of my stuff. I think that would be crazy, though I certainly understand the sentiment.

 

[transittech]

In a few years you will have no choice.

Hopefully not. As long as the U.S. government insists on buying US made tools, there will still be choices. When they decide Chinese tools are good enough, then we are in trouble.

 

[Hootbro]

They are just tools, it makes no economic sense to sell off a USA made tool because the manufacturer is "now" sourcing "some" tools overseas. They already made their money on that tool years ago and you selling it off now is just an emotional response.

Going forward and not buying import from said company is where it will make a statement to them and hit them in the pocketbook. Of course in the end, it is a law of diminishing returns as the more economic constraints you put on a company, the more likely they will cheapen and outsource more or faster with the after effect of putting what little USA employed workers out of a job that much faster.

 

[Conductor562]

I think 85Camero hit the nail on the head. Some things just aren't made here anymore. Power tools are a good example, if you limit yourself to buying only USA made power tools you aren't going to have very many. It's different with hand tools though, they are (or were) kinda our "thing". I know it doesn't make much economic sense to sell of the tools after the company sells out but it just disgust me to the point that I no longer enjoy using them. Based on most of the comments I'm now convinced that my suspicions about being weird were in fact merited.

 

[Conductor562]

.....and I don't always sell or trade them off. I have to spent an extended period of time convincing myself not to though.

 

[hifi_hokie]

Unless I purchased them with warranty considerations in mind, then no, I don't mind.

But if anyone wants their unused Lotus because of the current Malaysian ownership, let me know

 

[96snma]

yes 96snma ,things are bad lets make them worse.if not for people sounding off on this forum it would be,keep that in mind.snap on put usa back on ratchets,why? because people said enough is enough.good work fellas. let the ''oh its just the way the world is going'' people do nothing.

You know where they were made before the stamp was back on. What ever theory you might have for the removal they were still made in the USA. Now that it's back on does it make it a better ratchet? Smoother? stronger? Better warrenty? No its all the same and people were freaking out about. By placing 3 simple letters on the ratchet didn't make it functionally better.

Don't get me wrong my box is filled with channel lock, knipex, cdi, matco, and snap on but I don't wrench for a living and am not going to spend 300-500 on a tap and die set when a tiawan one will do and I use it 3 times a year.

I think the difference is that a company such as Klein, or even Craftsman, always had the reputation of making their products in the U.S. and now that's beginning to change.

Where as Nike, Sony, etc.. never had that tradition of American made to begin with. Now American companies that always used to manufacture their products at home and are now having all/some of their products made over seas are becoming part of the out sourcing culture that many Americans have come to resent.

I can see that point and it makes alot of sense. These companies don't do it by choice though. It's the general public that forces the move as the vast majority don't care as to where its made. They see they can buy set of 4 pliers for $15 or one pair of klien linemans for $45. As production costs so much here they have to reduce costs becasue units sold decline.

 

[crewchief888]

i dont sell off any tools,
i've given boxes and hand tools to a good friend.
i've been buyig tools since '76, and been a "pro" wrench since '84

i dont pay a lot of attention to COO, theres a lot of good quality/value in some of the offshore stuff.
theres also a lot of real **** that's made off shore.

it's up to the buyer to decide whats good and whats not.

 

[Pantsfall_McFixit]

I don't mind getting tools from USA and Europe, basically any place that has fair wages and labor practices and makes quality tools.

 

[Conductor562]

I don't mind European stuff too much. I've got some German, Italian, and even Spanish stuff. It's different when you have a place like Germany who prides themselves on quality and attention to detail versus an "American" company shipping production over seas to exploit slave wages and cheap *** materials. A lot of Taiwanese stuff is decent quality now days, but I still can't stand to open my box and see it laying there.

 

[3xpendable]

We have got to have pride in the USA! This ho hum about I don't care where it's from or look around everything is off shore. Well it didn't start off shore it's people that don't give a rip about America and American jobs that let them carry it off shore. I don't care how well it is made over there I care that my money stays in America and supports American family's. You out source off shore your company is dead to me you are telling me you don't care for America you care about your self and how much money you can make. I like to make money too. Right here in the good ole USA! With good ole USA tools. My blood sweat and tears will fall on good ole USA soil. And if it dont have the stamp you can take it somewhere else. I have no love for it


God bless America.

Because we sure need it

 

[Conductor562]

We have got to have pride in the USA! This ho hum about I don't care where it's from or look around everything is off shore. Well it didn't start off shore it's people that don't give a rip about America and American jobs that let them carry it off shore. I don't care how well it is made over there I care that my money stays in America and supports American family's. You out source off shore your company is dead to me you are telling me you don't care for America you care about your self and how much money you can make. I like to make money too. Right here in the good ole USA! With good ole USA tools. My blood sweat and tears will fall on good ole USA soil. And if it dont have the stamp you can take it somewhere else. I have no love for it


God bless America.

Because we sure need it

Amen Brother!

 

[AZ_Catskinner]

My attitude is that if it pays the bills, it isn't Chinese with a few exceptions made for stuff that is a consumable by nature (like impact extensions which get destroyed in a hurry regardless of it being a Proto or Pittsburgh).

That is why my Craftsman wrenches got the boot - if I destroy one at work it gets replaced with Chinese trash, and I have the KS2's at home, so why not pass them on to someone who isn't as likely to break them?

 

[NWphotog]

Hmm, my dad always taught me to get the most for my money. He was a teenager and car nut during the depression and had to make the most of his money. He was trained as a machinist but worked most of his life in the construction industry. First in the commercial building trade and later as a developer in the residential field. He graded his own roads, layed his own water and sewer lines, poured the curbs, and had the streets paved by a specialist. When building spec houses, he did everything but plumbing and electrical by himself. He had tractors, a grader, a dump truck to maintain. He wanted good quality but not extravagant over priced tools. I noticed the mechanics of the era were the same. They could do more with a small box of basic tools than the newer guys with thousands in tools. I always want good quality but I am not willing pay inflated prices for tools of little or no increase in quality.

 

[NWphotog]

We have got to have pride in the USA! This ho hum about I don't care where it's from or look around everything is off shore. Well it didn't start off shore it's people that don't give a rip about America and American jobs that let them carry it off shore. I don't care how well it is made over there I care that my money stays in America and supports American family's. You out source off shore your company is dead to me you are telling me you don't care for America you care about your self and how much money you can make. I like to make money too. Right here in the good ole USA! With good ole USA tools. My blood sweat and tears will fall on good ole USA soil. And if it dont have the stamp you can take it somewhere else. I have no love for it


God bless America.

Because we sure need it

Personally I think it is the manufactures that need to get off their butts and compete better. I'll always pay more for US manufacture but not 10x, 20x, or more! Hmm, where is your computer made? Cell phone? VCR? TV? I think rhetoric is more empty than real.

 

[96snma]

We have got to have pride in the USA! This ho hum about I don't care where it's from or look around everything is off shore. Well it didn't start off shore it's people that don't give a rip about America and American jobs that let them carry it off shore. I don't care how well it is made over there I care that my money stays in America and supports American family's. You out source off shore your company is dead to me you are telling me you don't care for America you care about your self and how much money you can make. I like to make money too. Right here in the good ole USA! With good ole USA tools. My blood sweat and tears will fall on good ole USA soil. And if it dont have the stamp you can take it somewhere else. I have no love for it


God bless America.

Because we sure need it

I'm an economics major specializing in energy econ. Tell me how well you're going to be doing in a couple years with your good ole american oil. The fact of the matter is it's not economically reasible to produce everything here. American has past the industrial age and entered the information technology age. They specialize in information (medical advances, aerospace) while other parts of the world are converting from agriculture to industial. Many people now a days feel they are better than working at a factory, especailly for the wages needed to be profitable. They don't want to run a 12 ton press all day or stare at pliers going by looking for defects. My hat goes off to these individuals because I sure wouldn't want to do it. I buy american when I can but to spend 10x more for same quality items isn't realistic for me. It's ignorant individuals such as yourself that give the collective their arrogant reputation.

Also let me know how well the money spent on that good ole USA made comupter you typed that on is doing.

 

[96snma]

Hmm, my dad always taught me to get the most for my money. He was a teenager and car nut during the depression and had to make the most of his money. He was trained as a machinist but worked most of his life in the construction industry. First in the commercial building trade and later as a developer in the residential field. He graded his own roads, layed his own water and sewer lines, poured the curbs, and had the streets paved by a specialist. When building spec houses, he did everything but plumbing and electrical by himself. He had tractors, a grader, a dump truck to maintain. He wanted good quality but not extravagant over priced tools. I noticed the mechanics of the era were the same. They could do more with a small box of basic tools than the newer guys with thousands in tools. I always want good quality but I am not willing pay inflated prices for tools of little or no increase in quality.

I think thats well said

 

[Conductor562]

First off, some of you are comparing apples to oranges. There are some things that just aren't made here. Who's making computers in the states? It's one thing to buy something when there is no American option, it's another to say piss on the the American option when there is one. I attended a community college program to obtain the certifications I needed to operate freight trains. The curriculum was less about the global economy and more about not getting my f#%king legs cut off but I'm not too ignorant to understand that when these skilled machinist and tool makers lose their jobs on the line to some Chinaman working for pennies they aren't going to work for Microsoft! They're going to the unemployment office to sign up for their check and when that runs out they'll find something making a fraction of what their Union negotiated manufacturing job paid. You're absolutely right Professor, we don't make much in this country anymore, how's that working out for us? You looked at the unemployment rating lately? I'm not willing to give up on those Americans who still support their children making quality tools and praying they get one more good year before their job goes to China. If paying a little more to support those people makes me ignorant than I guess I can't deny it. Pennies before people is a lot of what got this country in the shape it's in.

 

[camarotoolman]

Just buy used american tools, cheaper, better, helps the environment too. It takes alot raw materials, energy to make, and ship all that junk form China.

 

[AZ_Catskinner]

I'm an economics major specializing in energy econ. Tell me how well you're going to be doing in a couple years with your good ole american oil. The fact of the matter is it's not economically reasible to produce everything here. American has past the industrial age and entered the information technology age. They specialize in information (medical advances, aerospace) while other parts of the world are converting from agriculture to industial. Many people now a days feel they are better than working at a factory, especailly for the wages needed to be profitable. They don't want to run a 12 ton press all day or stare at pliers going by looking for defects. My hat goes off to these individuals because I sure wouldn't want to do it. I buy american when I can but to spend 10x more for same quality items isn't realistic for me. It's ignorant individuals such as yourself that give the collective their arrogant reputation.

Also let me know how well the money spent on that good ole USA made comupter you typed that on is doing.

The USA has fairly decent petroleum reserves, IF we would exploit them.

Many people seem to feel that they are better than working, period. Somewhere during the last few decades it was decided that to make an honest living in a trade or factory was to be looked down on, and to go into debt for life with student loans while producing nothing useful was somehow honorable.

 

[fsdogwood]

I couldn't help but giggle quite a bit while reading this.

You're reading straight from my mind. Every time I go over my very modest tool "collection", I go over each and every one with regards to COO and if it's imported, which model and from what manufacturer can I obtain one made in a country I approve (Think USA, Germany, Japan, etc. Even Taiwan gets the nod from me.) and figure in if the improvement in quality would allow me to purchase it. My most recent "revelation" to this end is my damn leather punch from Ching-chong-wadda-badda. The thing flexes like I borrowed Arnold's biceps from '85 and couldn't punch a hole through air. I'm really looking at an older General or the Knipex model currently made.

I really could have assembled the exact tool set I have now for about 30-40% of the cost. Over 3/4ths of my tools are US made, and that is a fact that I take much pride in. I know that my wallet can't do too much, but I get by knowing that I did my part.

Well, would you approve the tools made by Japan or Taiwan in the 70's?

 

[fsdogwood]

I don't understand the desire to sell quality tools you already own because the company went off shore. Do understand the desire to buy quality and US for sure. I am tired of Chicrap in tools, auto parts, clothes and most anything else.

Cannot help, but thinking of even with the cloth, backpacks imported, at
Walmart price, there are still drives at beginning of each school year to
collect cloth, school supplies for those needy ones. Cannot imagine how
they handle the price jump if we cut imports

 

[volaredon]

Hopefully not. As long as the U.S. government insists on buying US made tools, there will still be choices. When they decide Chinese tools are good enough, then we are in trouble.

well what about local government bodies?
the local County Housing authority (deals with alot of Section 8 stuff) has hyundais with municipal plates, the local park district has a Toyota truck... bought with OUR US Tax dollars... this does piss me off.

Cash 4 Clunkers was supposed to rejuvenate American automakers. It backfired, as the imports started appearing then like termites... they should have added a stipulation that to get the rebates that were offered there, you had to but a Chrysler, a GM, or a Ford product, no Toyotas or Hondas or Hyundais allowed...
I find myself buying ALOT more used stuff, tools, equip, vehicles etc., to avoid buying Chinamade garbage as much as possible.

 

[volaredon]

well let me add this; I was an auto mechanic for 18 years. the last 7 of those, my pay stagnated; yet, my cost of living increased like everyone else. I'm talking taxes, insurance utilities, food etc not toys, vacations, fancy furniture, etc. the basic necessities got more expensive. My pay didn't change. I got a job in a steel mill and a resultant jolt in pay. Though alot of that jolt was attributed to my newfound abundance of overtime hours available to me to work. I did not leave auto repair for being "tired" of it as much as being tired of making the boss' money for him and recieving less than 20% of what I produced. I miss wrenching. but to return to it it appears I would have to accept half the pay that I left behind in 2005. ********.
In 2007 I had an accident at home in my own front yard. a chain saw kicked back on me taking out a stump. I almost became "stumpy" myself as it nearly cost me my right foot above the ankle. I wound up on Disability, I lost my job due to FMLA time running out.
I went back to school and got a CDL, an Associate's Degree in Ag Business and a Pesticide Operator's License. Yeah I let my ASE's lapse while working that Industrial Maintenance job but could (and plan on) renewing them as I still know what I knew then... but with the added credentials, I am more qualified than I used to be before being hurt; and you cannot take all my years of experience away from me.

Yet the only job I could find upon finishing that Degree (no, I did not limit myself to jobs within the field I went back to school for) pays me 40% of what the steel mill did. and about 65% of my wages made turning a wrench; which remember I left because my pay levelled off while expenses rose. Why am I only worth 40% of what I was 5 years ago? my expenses sure have not reduced to 40% of 2007 levels!
Why am I being told I have to go thru a temp service and no companies will do their own hiring any more? and these temp servics tell me that if I make over $9-10/hr that they cannot do anything better? (I am barely over that range at the moment)

I'll tell you why; because we were sold out by all of these formerly American grown and bred companies and also by our own elected officials with deals such as NAFTA!!!
I am not a computer guy. never was. not a cubicle junkie. I fix things, pure and simple.
now a days though why does one component of anything cost as much as throwing that something away and buying a whole new unit? Switch on a drill breaks? Buy a new drill. That is NOT how I was brought up. If a drill breaks order a new switch and FIX it!
There is only 1 country that is not the USA that I consider totally equivalent and don't look upon as "imported and that country is Canada! and the only COO other than the US that I do not mind seeing on stuff that I buy.

and job wise, when I went back to school, I needed "a degree" for some of the jobs I wanted. now that isn't good enough. now they specify a "BACHELOR'S" I have a feeling that if I went back and got that, then they would require a MASTERS to qualify for the same job, just as I get the Bachelors. then a PhD.
I am 45 years old. I still have at least 20 good years to work. and nobody is counting "related work experience" in place of schooling like they used to. I don't have all this time to sit in school to chase the ever changing schooling requirements. I have a house payment and a wife and son that need me to make a living NOW.

So that said, though I can afford less than I used to be able to afford, and US made (when available) is often double or more the cost of Chinamade, I do all I can to buy American, as the Chinese do not pay my bills... why should I be forced to support them in what I buy? I have never been overseas, I was born in the US, work in the US pay taxes to the US so why shouldn't I have the option to buy anything I may need that is MADE (not just assembled) in the US? and, no, I am not packing up and moving abroad to work. even if i could afford to.
Even back in the early 70s Austrailia had laws that said that parts used in their cars had to be domestically produced and the factories paid dearly in taxes to their own government if they sourced elsewhere...
ther rest of the world tarriffs the snot out of what little is available from the US if it is to enter their country. yet we act as everyone elses dumping grounds... What is wrong with that picture?

My Dakota and my Cherokee are AMERICAN Why should I be FORCED to buy imported parts for them? ( in boxes stamped with brands that were genuinely American for years) I find myself in the boneyard more than ever it seems used parts are lasting me as long as new imported parts do.

 

[Trucky]

Well, would you approve the tools made by Japan or Taiwan in the 70's?

Wasn't even close to being alive then, but I've seen some of Japan's.. interesting older work as far as tools. They have a few companies with a good history of quality tools but in general I wouldn't trust 99% of their stuff from way back when. Now? Absolutely. Night and day difference.

 

[Peoria Man]

Hmm, where is your computer made? Cell phone? VCR? TV? I think rhetoric is more empty than real.

Also let me know how well the money spent on that good ole USA made comupter you typed that on is doing.

I roll my eyes at these discussions because sooner or later, someone ALWAYS brings up the computers, cell phones, etc. Always.

Is there an American-made option for those items? Oh, perhaps there was 20 years ago, but I didn't need a computer 20 years ago.

On items where I still do have the option, I'll keep choosing the American-made item. Hand tools are a perfect example of that. Maybe they'll all go Chinese eventually but for now there is still a choice.

 

[dandan111]

I have a good job manufacturing orthopedic implants. So far mostly this type of medical manufacting has remained in the USA. Yes their is some foreign conversion starting to happen.
My theory is after the USA has been beat down to 3 world wages in manufacturing we will see all our good old jobs come back. So far know one really wants a implant with a china stamp on it. But when everyone starts thinking china (like the Toyota bandwagon) is cool again I'm screwed. The answer seems to be go to college for more education? Maybe we can all be CEOs?