J H Williams vintage hand tools

[damon18]

I meant to ask the Williams experts if it is possible to date these? I looked at the Superrench info at http://alloy-artifacts.org/williams-supercompany-p4.html

but couldn't find anything about possible date codes, these all have an oval shaped mark near the open end of the wrench.

 

[Provincial]

I don't know about date codes, but that design of wrench was in production for the last half of the 20th Century! And all of them were of good quality.

 

[Machineman84]

I think they’re great, you got an awesome deal. my grandfather used the same wrenches, I have what is left of them, I think my largest is 1-1/4 but they’re not brand new like yours.


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[wrenchguy]

You convinced me, I checked and even current Chinese Home Depot wrenches in this size range are $90 for a six piece set (plus tax). Ended up getting these nine for $70.00. They really appear unused.

Now u got an excuse to get something BIG!
deal!

 

[tym]

You convinced me, I checked and even current Chinese Home Depot wrenches in this size range are $90 for a six piece set (plus tax). Ended up getting these nine for $70.00. They really appear unused.

I think you got a great buy on those combo wrenches.

Sometimes you just need a war club to finish a job.

 

[Machineman84]

Damon here is my only complete set of Williams wrenches. I am a sucker for the smallest example of many vintage tool items.

 

[Machineman84]

I got a box full of stuff at a local pawn few years ago. For cheap of course. It was piled full of stuff this was one of the nice items I found inside.


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[Machineman84]

I love the old tool box full of random stuff deals. If they’re cheap enough I’ll buy them with only a glance and dig through it later like im treasure hunting, keep what I like and unload the rest. normally I get all my money back on those deals after picking out what I want... it’s fun.


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[leg17]

Common to see the wrench body number (ie. 662), forged in and the variation stamped to correspond with the milled openings.
The square openings are for square-headed set screws.
Picture a tool post on a lathe.

Lugz
Finally got around to posting some examples.
Note they are all from the 'Oval' logo period, approx. 1915-1924.

 

[wrenchguy]

Went to a ag museum 2day and found a shelfworn NOS 21c, 6 1/4" opening ans 44" long in the hand tool section. Not the 1st 1 i seen, but the nicest 4sure.

 

[damon18]

Went to a ag museum 2day and found a shelfworn NOS 21c, 6 1/4" opening ans 44" long in the hand tool section. [/url]

Now that's a wrench!

 

[6PTsocket]

Maybe some confusion over "Dunlap" versus "Dunlop". I believe Dunlap was a Sears brand name for some tools while Dunlop is the tire company. Perhaps the tire irons actually say Dunlop rather than Dunlap, the OP can clarify.



You never know though, perhaps they do say Dunlap. What is interesting is that the first Dunlop (now Goodyear/Dunlop) tire plant in the US is literally around the corner from the former JH Williams Plant so you never know.

Dunlap was a Sears executive and they named the lower end line in his honor. Higgins was an employee too. They added the JC to sound better.

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[bmwrd0]

Picked these up over the weekend:

A mint DOE set and a very lightly used torque wrench

 

[wrenchguy]

I made a mistake about which wrenches I should displaying on the "BIG" board.
My board should be displaying as this illustration shows.
Anyone know of the wrench list for this 1915 williams display (the larger 1)? Thanks 4 any help.
double clik 4 big.

 

[leg17]

I made a mistake about which wrenches I should displaying on the "BIG" board.
My board should be displaying as this illustration shows.
Anyone know of the wrench list for this 1915 williams display (the larger 1)? Thanks 4 any help.

You will be looking for Oval Logo rather than the Underlined Script 'Superior' you first started with.

 

[twertsy]

I made a mistake about which wrenches I should displaying on the "BIG" board.
My board should be displaying as this illustration shows.
Anyone know of the wrench list for this 1915 williams display (the larger 1)? Thanks 4 any help.
double clik 4 big.

A non-in-depth search this morning yielded an inventory from 1919.

 

[wrenchguy]

Thanks!

 

[wrenchguy]

Well.... for those who "still" want help me fill the big board after my SNAFU. Heres the new want list that i believe is correct for the board i have. Photos not necessary, just part number, condition and price. You can post or PM, ur choice. Again, Thanks 4 any help. mike

Oval logo part numbers wanted.
7
8
35
675b
677b
679
681b
683b
663e
663g
665e
666e
661d
661e
661f
662g
662d
spark plug wrench, 993 or 993a or 994

 

[twertsy]

Well.... for those who "still" want help me fill the big board after my SNAFU. Heres the new want list that i believe is correct for the board i have. Photos not necessary, just part number, condition and price. You can post or PM, ur choice. Again, Thanks 4 any help. mike



1

5

7

8

35



725b

737



675b

677b

679

681b

683b

663e

663g

665e

666e

661d

661e

661f

662f

725

34

736

spark plug wrench, 993 or 993a or 994

Which logo?

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[wrenchguy]

Oval head logo. thanks.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Wrenchguy/Mike,

Note that the light service "S" wrenches 675B, 677B, 679, 681B and 683B will only come with an oval logo and the "LIGHT SERVICE WRENCH" marking on the shank. As I discussed upthread, at some point in the early 1920's, at the tail end of the oval logo era, these wrenches were 75B, 77B, 79, 81B, and 83B (Williams dropped the "6" prefix). And after 1924 they no longer had the "LIGHT SERVICE WRENCH" marking on the shank.

Also, I think the 993, 993E and 994 will only be available with the oval logo. I am pretty sure that Williams stopped making this wrench sometime before 1931.

 

[wrenchguy]

Lugz, alls i got to go by is what todd found and posted after i contacted him about the 1923 list i was using NOT working because the size of wrenches not corresponding with the "spread" of the hanging hooks.

By studying the 90" board illustrations available (3) i figured i needed the list that had the single opening engineer wrenches across the top row of the board.

Todd found this 1919 senior board list having the correct number of single opening engineer wrenches included. Heres the 1919 list and its what i'm going with now.
double clik 2 make big.


OVAL LOGO ONLY.
1
3
5
7
8
23
35
37
723
725b
731
733
675b
677b
683b
663g
664
661
spark plug wrench, 993 or 993a or 994

 

[Private Lugnutz]

wrenchguy,

I understand what list you are using. And what I posted in post #465 has no affect on the list of model numbers. I am simply pointing out that the particular wrenches I cited by model number will definitely only have the oval logos. You will not find those model numbers on wrenches with the underline script logo. If you (or others) don't find that useful for looking (i.e., not wasting time looking through wrenches with underline script logos), I don't know what to say except we have different ways of looking for wrenches.

As for having no preference with respect to logos... Hey, it's your board, and your project, but at the risk of overstepping, I don't think that's wise. Especially since you've already had one setback related to hooks and fit. If you have a 1912-1919 board, I'm not sure why you would want to risk another fit issue by trying to put wrenches on it that weren't made in 1919. Different logos mean different production eras and that could have physical consequences well beyond the marking.

For instance, how much space is there between hooks, vertically, from one type of wrench to the next type down? Why would I ask that? Because early wrenches with oval logos and later wrenches with underline script logos having the exact same model number are not the same size.

I just compared the OAL's of all the wrenches on your list in a 1912 catalog and the OAL's of the same wrenches in a 1931 catalog. All the Superior wrenches (underline script logo) are LONGER. In 1912, the No. 8 SOE wrench was 11-1/2" OAL. In 1931, it was 13-1/2". In 1912, a No. 34 DOE wrench was 9-3/4" OAL. In 1931, it was 10-3/4" OAL.

Maybe it won't matter. Maybe it will.

 

[leg17]

Wrenchguy/Mike,.....Also, I think the 993, 993E and 994 will only be available with the oval logo. I am pretty sure that Williams stopped making this wrench sometime before 1931.

I have 993 in Early Brooklyn, Oval (I forgot if 'Brooklyn' or 'forged'), and Underlined Scroll.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Thanks, leg. So much for pretty sure! I guess there was too big of a catalog gap between 1924 and 1931 (where that model number no longer appears) for me to say that! And that wrench should have no problem fitting if it was made larger later. I think those go sideways at the very bottom.

Wrenchguy,
I forgot the needs list is partial and you have some of the correct wrenches you have probably test fit, so ignore my concern about later wrenches not fitting. My apologies.

 

[wrenchguy]

wrenchguy,

Maybe it won't matter. Maybe it will.

lugz, you've addressed exactly my concerns about the wrenches fitting on the board. My thought was using the same part number regardless of logo meant same the footprint on the board. (u shot that down) lenghtwise. THANKS!

Without having samples or spec list to check, I think the length issue will be ok, but the head width has to be oval logo, NOT WIDER. It seems really crowded (left to right) on there and of course i ain't gonna drill new lag holes.

Would this board be obsolete when the next logo came out?
How does the superior wrench head width compare to the oval logo head width?

As far as "overstepping", its not my nature thinking it. You research experts are why i read every vintage tool post. I recognize/appreciate the efforts and help.

With information provided i'm going with collecting oval logo wrenches. They seem as easy to find as the later 1's.
When i got enough to put on and physically determine if the later logo will fit i can fill in with those. In the end i don't want any empty spots.

thanks,
mike


I had a good start going. Oh well. double clik 4 big.

 

[wrenchguy]

Thanks, leg. So much for pretty sure! I guess there was too big of a catalog gap between 1924 and 1931 (where that model number no longer appears) for me to say that! And that wrench should have no problem fitting if it was made larger later. I think those go sideways at the very bottom.

Wrenchguy,
I forgot the needs list is partial and you have some of the correct wrenches you have probably test fit, so ignore my concern about later wrenches not fitting. My apologies.

I don't have enough "new list" oval logo wrenches to test fit each row with later wrenches. Head width could still be an issue. Only have 18 wrenches for the new layout and half those are later logos.

The spark plug wrench should be on dimension lenghtwise as it is hung/sleeved on the lags that fasten the board to the wall.
thanks

 

[wrenchguy]

Wrenchguy, don't you need 6 of each wrench size, if I read the list right?

This was the way williams sold the whole package as 1 wrench from each group was displayed and the other 5 were "shelf stock".

 

[Private Lugnutz]

How does the superior wrench head width compare to the oval logo head width?...[ ]...With information provided i'm going with collecting oval logo wrenches...[ ]...When i got enough to put on and physically determine if the later logo will fit i can fill in with those.

I think this is the safest way to proceed. The catalogs don't provide head width specs, only thickness. It would be easy enough to find someone with the same model number wrench in oval logo and underline script logo and compare the measurements, but dropping back to oval logo only is the best course of action, in my opinion.

I had a good start going. Oh well.

Better than good. Those look outstanding refinished! So outstanding that I would be tempted to find a way to make them fit (short of molesting the board, of course)! (Even though I am a stickler for detail and like to imbue my basement with that kind of quality when referring to it as the Lugzsonian, it ain't the Smithsonian, you only need to satisfy yourself that you are doing right by the board, and sometimes practicality is a factor.) Just sayin'.

 

[wrenchguy]

outstanding[/I] refinished! So outstanding that I would be tempted to find a way to make them fit (short of molesting the board, of course)! (Even though I am a stickler for detail and like to imbue my basement with that kind of quality when referring to it as the Lugzsonian, it ain't the Smithsonian, you only need to satisfy yourself that you are doing right by the board, and sometimes practicality is a factor.) Just sayin'.

I'm crazy enough..... reproduction board or2, iffen i live that long. Its not like i don't have enough projects as it is.

Ol williams seem easy to find......

I like williams.

 

[wrenchguy]

With what i have i was able to make 2 vertical runs side by side using underline logos on the left and oval logos right. The longer underliners do crowd things but width wise ok. Still going for oval logos for now though.

 

[int3414]

10 wrench board

 

[leg17]

Extra Sweet int3414.
Which logo you looking for?

 

[int3414]

the scroll,a little confused as to if thats correct,,,its dated on back 1928...looking to buy s shape,75a 79c and 83b......heres the ebay item # 163547732578.....not sure how i got here,but that big wood wrench had a lot to do with it..lol

 

[wrenchguy]

Nice, real nice. How many wrenches will a pair of hooks hold? Which 1's are u missing? By hardware house advertising pages i been studying i think ur board is a lil earlier, maybe 1925. But not shure.

 

[ssdave]

Dug some Williams stuff out of storage today. The Williams top box is the first "professional" tool box I owned. I remember when it held all my tools, and that was enough to be employed as a mechanic. It was a huge step up from the cantilever top air force surplus hand carry box I had been using.

The 1/4" drive set is the only really nice 1/4" drive set I own. I don't use it, though. I had started in filling the chest with appropriate tools for the era, but lost interest when I got sidetracked into filling out my road box with matched SO and my main stuff with matched SO and Proto, and then into the weeds with the Proto green box with LA Proto. So, will be ebaying this stuff back off. Torn as to what do with the top box, has some history with me, although the tools do not.

Anyway, on to the show and tell.

 

[int3414]

will hold 3,i have 2 of some.....75a 79c and 83b,not finding,,,a new ebay listing
223481562112 of s wrenches...has a 683b...thats as close as i seen

 

[int3414]

Nice, real nice. How many wrenches will a pair of hooks hold? Which 1's are u missing? By hardware house advertising pages i been studying i think ur board is a lil earlier, maybe 1925. But not shure.

have yet to see exact same ad for my board,with 3 rows on top,4 in center,3 rows on bottom(S)

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Wrenchguy,

I had high hopes for the two "S" wrenches in this lot from this morning's flea market to fill some of your Silent Salesman needs (See Pic 1.)

Alas, the 661 is a 661A (whereas you need a 661D, E, or F), and it doesn't appear to be a Williams. This is now the tiniest "S" wrench I own. (See Pics 2 & 3.)

The other "S" wrench is a Williams, oval logo, Brooklyn factory, and it is the correct wrench in terms of opening sizes (1/2" x 9/16"), but it's later than 1919, when they dropped the "6" in 677B. (Not to mention the hairline fracture!) (See Pics 4, 5, & 6.)

 

[Magnum440d100]

I have many “Williams” stuff, but found my first JH Williams in the wild. An 8” adjustable “superjustable”.... needs some oil, but seems like it should be able to be used regularly without issue. I think I’ll put this one in my trail rig box.