let's see your craftsman block grinders

[bubinga]

Those rests look really nice.

Yeah they are, You could even make some jigs to hold plane blades square.

 

[ifirefight]

Yeah they are, You could even make some jigs to hold plane blades square.

I drew some lines on the rests today at certain angles, then proceeded to grind a bunch of my metal lathe bits. Worked PERFECTLY! I can’t find any makers mark/manufacturer of that thing, but it sure is nice...other than its yellow..I’ll have to fix that. [emoji12]


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[ifirefight]

I drew some lines on the rests today at certain angles, then proceeded to grind a bunch of my metal lathe bits. Worked PERFECTLY! I can’t find any makers mark/manufacturer of that thing, but it sure is nice...other than its yellow..I’ll have to fix that. [emoji12]


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[WWShop]

My latest addition, and the ol' 1 hp runs great. It didn't have the base, tool rest or eyeshields but luckily for me I had all those parts and will be making this a complete grinder in the near future.

 

[harley jim]

Picked up this today. 1/2 hp 397-19441. Not sure what year it is. Has some aftermarket rest on it. This things a beast, I did not realize they were so large. Will keep my Baldor and Red Wing company.



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I like the tool rest.

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[jimmyin3D]

I got this a few yrs ago. It was brand new in the box with original box,manuals, even the original grinder discs. A little underpowered at 1/4hp but I got it for $20 and it’s been fine for my uses. I think it’s from 1974.

Using a Forney wire wheel and a 3M scotchbrite wheel currently on it and I love it. I took off the guards because they got in the way though.








——————————————————————-
Check out my for sale listing in the classifieds:
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=438994

 

[harley jim]

I got this a few yrs ago. It was brand new in the box with original box,manuals, even the original grinder discs. A little underpowered at 1/4hp but I got it for $20 and it’s been fine for my uses. I think it’s from 1974.

Using a Forney wire wheel and a 3M scotchbrite wheel currently on it and I love it. I took off the guards because they got in the way though.








——————————————————————-
Check out my for sale listing in the classifieds:
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=438994

That's a good set up for a 1/4 hp grinder, I need something like that so I can put my sharpening stones back on my grinder

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[ifirefight]

I like the tool rest.

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Thanks, a few nice comments on the tool rest already. If you guys want I will take it apart and post the dimensions and detailed pictures tomorrow, so you can fab one up...I’m fairly certain this is a custom made one due to the thickness of the steel that was used.


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[WAITS]

Here’s my first block grinder, 397.1949! Looking to fully restore/upgrade it if I can get my stator wired back up correctly! Does anyone have the diagram/color code for this model? I’ve been searching for days and haven’t came close.

 

[lafester]

here is my 1/2 hp...

 

[torqueman2002]

I'm not able to tell what relay you have 4 or 3 terminal. These diagrams may help.

Diagram for above Block grinder 1/2-HP m-397.19591

Diagram for 1-HP m-257.191600 | yours maybe similar

 

[WAITS]

Thanks for the helps guys. Torqueman you’re hand written print is exactly what I’ve been looking for, on top of figuring out what models I can cross reference with.

I was able to get a good hum and a little smoke out of it when I got home lol ( before seeing reply’s )

I’ve tried all of your links and never had one connect.

 

[harley jim]

Waits
The level of knowledge on this site is amazing it took the guys about 1 post to send me in the right direction on repairing my block. Trust and fear not.[emoji106]

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[torqueman2002]

Thanks for the helps guys. Torqueman you’re hand written print is exactly what I’ve been looking for, on top of figuring out what models I can cross reference with.

I was able to get a good hum and a little smoke out of it when I got home lol ( before seeing reply’s )

I’ve tried all of your links and never had one connect.

I regret I don't have information on your specific model.

When the grinder hums at power-on, it is an indication of the rotor not turning, the smoke is probably the start-up coil windings (thin wires) over heating. They will eventually fail - open circuit. Check the arbor does not bind - with the grinder unplugged, it should spin easily by hand.

What links are you trying?

What is the object in your picture that doesn't appear to be original to the Block? Relays?

 

[lafester]

Pretty sure I have a 1/2 hp stator laying around here somewhere if you think yours is fried.

 

[WAITS]

I regret I don't have information on your specific model.

When the grinder hums at power-on, it is an indication of the rotor not turning, the smoke is probably the start-up coil windings (thin wires) over heating. They will eventually fail - open circuit. Check the arbor does not bind - with the grinder unplugged, it should spin easily by hand.

What links are you trying?

What is the object in your picture that doesn't appear to be original to the Block? Relays?

Many of the links. in your CM block resources page.

Everything spins pretty smooth, I’ve only push started the motor once to wind up and slow down. ( before I cut my stator wires )

The object in the picture is an on/off switch I’m temporarily using, until I get a 3 pole switch.


Lafester is there any way you could take a picture showing the wire orientation? If mine turns out to be fried, I’ll be needing one!

 

[bagged89s10]

picked these up today. pretty rough but they run excellent.

I probably have parts to complete them. I listed them for sale for now but I might clean them up a little.

 

[torqueman2002]

Nice find, bagged!

 

[ifirefight]

Got this one today for 15$. It says 1/2 hp. But why is it so much smaller than my 397-19441? Any ideas?






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[Old Radar]

Does this comparison answer your question?

 

[torqueman2002]

Got this one today for 15$. It says 1/2 hp. But why is it so much smaller than my 397-19441? Any ideas?

The $15 1/2-HP Block is, by my eye, a single voltage 'standard duty' model. (That was a great purchase IMO)

Your other one looks to be an Industrial rated, Dual Voltage(?) grinder.

Are the arbor dia. different, 1/2" vs. 5/8" respectively, also?

My guess is the grinding wheels are different diameters and thicknesses.

It's possible the power ratings were done to different specifications.

Just my SWAG.

 

[lafester]

Yeah the basic 1/2 hp model was 6" with no exhaust and the thin one piece tool rests.
Then there was also the step above with a heavy duty switch and cap start.

 

[ifirefight]

Thanks guys, looks like the big one must be the industrial version, it does have 7 inch stones on it, and the smaller one is the basic version with 6”. 15$ well spent. [emoji106]


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[ifirefight]

What’s a 1/4 hp worth? One just popped up local. Not sure if it’s powerful enough..I already have 2 , 1/2 hp blocks, a Redwing dental one that’s a beast and a Baldor.. don’t really NEED another one but..


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[torqueman2002]

In SE Michigan area, I usually find complete Blocks for about $1 per 0.01-HP.

So, to me - $25 for a 1/4-HP Block is my rule of thumb.

A 1/4-HP makes a nice gentle wire wheeler for cleaning up threads on fasteners, etc ...


Oh, BTW --- it is NOT about need! LOL

 

[ifirefight]

I like that rule... you are correct about NEED...


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[ifirefight]

Does anyone sell reproduction labels? I would be highly interested in restoring these... I’ve seen where people have shared files and such, but I don’t have a printer that can do that...and I’m too old and crotchety to learn....


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[torqueman2002]

Does anyone sell reproduction labels? I would be highly interested in restoring these... I’ve seen where people have shared files and such, but I don’t have a printer that can do that...and I’m too old and crotchety to learn....


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member mattblast has a thread.


https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=356439

 

[WAITS]

Update, still haven’t figure out which lead goes where lol.

I do know which are the mains/aux now though!

 

[torqueman2002]

Update, still haven’t figure out which lead goes where lol.

I do know which are the mains/aux now though!

I saw the same model as your Block, listed in the Vintage Machinery website | Machinery Photo Index.
VM website link - -->http://vintagemachinery.org/

Brian Kachadurian - owns it and updated the posting on 3/8/2017. Perhaps he can get the wiring info. you need.

 

[Hubie F.]

Hello,
My great find for $30. Now having trouble finding the operators manual for this 1/4 hp bench grinder. PN model 257.191200. Any help would be appreciated.

 

[torqueman2002]

Hello,
My great find for $30. Now having trouble finding the operators manual for this 1/4 hp bench grinder. PN model 257.191200. Any help would be appreciated.

See my post above for the link to Vintage Machinery website. They have a Publication Reprints section, you may find it there.

BTW - your Sears grinder is not a Block motor style grinder that this thread is dedicated to.

 

[drivesitfar]

HUBIE: while Doc Block (torqueman2000) is correct that your little grinder is not a block grinder i'm not sure i've ever seen one like that. i'm guessing it was maybe made in Japan or Taiwan for Sears, but it looks like it might work ok.

while Doc sent you to another website to look for a manual feel free to post more of your stuff here on GJ and read and learn and have some fun with our group.

WELCOME TO GJ and wish I had some of your sunshine up here this winter.

cheers

DOC: BTW are you still searching for and buying and saving old BLOCKS or just helping all of us fix ours?

 

[torqueman2002]

HUBIE: while Doc Block (torqueman2000) is correct that your little grinder is not a block grinder i'm not sure i've ever seen one like that. i'm guessing it was maybe made in Japan or Taiwan for Sears, but it looks like it might work ok.

while Doc sent you to another website to look for a manual feel free to post more of your stuff here on GJ and read and learn and have some fun with our group.

WELCOME TO GJ and wish I had some of your sunshine up here this winter.

cheers

DOC: BTW are you still searching for and buying and saving old BLOCKS or just helping all of us fix ours?

Yes HUBIE, Welcome to GJ and please continue to post and share! Forgive my too quick and short reply.

Also, sorry for all that poor (LOL) weather you have to endure! Schools here have been closed for 2 days. Not much to look at, but people loose their minds after 3 flakes hit the ground.

Drives - I've recently have busied myself in the basement workshop, cleaning, straightening-up, and organizing. All in an effort to better work on my collection of Blocks and other grinders.

I made a over-engineered wood shelf to give the Blocks a proper home.

It was about then I realized, a great 2-speed, dual HP Baldor needed to move into the shop and be put back to work.

OK, Mrs. Torqueman did 'encourage' me to move some of the machines blocking the Christmas decoration storage area.

See: Baldor GA9 Eye Shield, 'Glass' replacement -->
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=443586

I also put the 6x48" belt and 12" disc sander into operation. What a monster - 1HP motor.

I've been tempted to post a couple of CL ads for Blocks, but the asks are stupid high - $140 for a nice & complete 1/2-HP.


Edit - If anyone is interested in a complete 1/2-HP flat top, I can do better than ^^, but, don't forget to add in for packing and shipping.

 

[mattsz]

Hi all -

I'm a new member here, posting at the suggestion of torqueman2002. I've inherited my father's old Craftsman 1/4 hp, model 397.19400. When I turn it on, it just hums loudly - the wheels don’t turn. The wheels do spin freely with no resistance, in either direction, whether the power is on or off, even when it's humming loudly. I know it’s not good for the motor, so I haven’t turned it on for any length of time in this condition, just a few times, each for less than a second, to test it.

I'm hoping to find a copy of the manual. Someone awhile back suggested that it must be a “bad start capacitor,” but I see that other model manuals don’t list a start capacitor, but instead a "starting relay." I actually have taken the covers off and exposed the “innards,” I can see these things are very basic: just motor windings, relay, and power switch (removed in the photo).

I’m hoping for some info on how to test the components, before I go buying new stuff - assuming there is new stuff I can buy to get it running. Are there specs for coil resistances or relay tests I can do? Anybody have a copy of a 397.19400 manual available?

Anyway, happy for any input to get it running again...

 

[Outlawmws]

Give it a starter spin and hit the switch and that should get it going, BUT it also indicates the starter is not working - I'm not sure if that's a winding, cap or what for that model. - someone here should know.

 

[torqueman2002]

Hi all -

I'm a new member here, ....

I’m hoping for some info on how to test the components, before I go buying new stuff - assuming there is new stuff I can buy to get it running. Are there specs for coil resistances or relay tests I can do? Anybody have a copy of a 397.19400 manual available?

Anyway, happy for any input to get it running again...

Welcome to GJ and Block grinder ownership.

I pulled out my 1/4-HP m-397.19400 r-top, but the style of relay and wiring for the windings is different.

Below are pictures and resistance values for a 1/4-HP m-397.19300 f-top, with the same style relay and wiring for the windings as the m-397.19400 you have.

I have high confidence the resistance values will be very similar (+/- 1 or 2 Ohms), maybe identical.

Internal wiring. Power switch is at top, power cord and strain relief at lower right. Note: some wire colors may vary from this example.

Relay detail.

Wiring diagram from m-397.19300 owners manual.

Resistance values. The resistance of the meter leads are not included, the values are net.

Note: For the relay table, disregard the row/column for terminal 1, the 'NC' stands for no connection.

Some relays of that design/shape have a terminal 1 above terminal 4. They are used for the dual voltage (115 | 230) grinders. This model is single voltage indicated on the label.

I hope this helps.

 

[RagTopTA]

So, I have been thinking about selling my 1 hp, do they sell good on Ebay? Anyone sold one on there? Its just sat in my tool room on the floor for like a year or more now. I use a 1/2 in my garage and another in my little metal shop out bac. Here is the post from when I got it. any input would be great, thanks!


https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=6617230&postcount=9823

 

[mattsz]

Give it a starter spin and hit the switch and that should get it going, BUT it also indicates the starter is not working - I'm not sure if that's a winding, cap or what for that model. - someone here should know.

Thanks Outlawmws - I didn't state it very clearly in my earlier post, but I distinctly recall trying your suggestion of giving it a good "starter spin" just before turning on the power, with no joy. That was a number of years ago, though, so I'll give it another go and see what happens...

Welcome to GJ and Block grinder ownership.

I pulled out my 1/4-HP m-397.19400 r-top, but the style of relay and wiring for the windings is different.

Below are pictures and resistance values for a 1/4-HP m-397.19300 f-top, with the same style relay and wiring for the windings as the m-397.19400 you have.

I have high confidence the resistance values will be very similar (+/- 1 or 2 Ohms), maybe identical.

Internal wiring. Power switch is at top, power cord and strain relief at lower right. (Image removed - I don't have more than 5 posts, so the forum won't let me post with image links, even when quoting someone else's, I guess... )

Relay detail. (Image removed)

Resistance values. The resistance of the meter leads are not included, the values are net. (Image removed)

I hope this helps.

I take it "r-top" ("r" for round?) is a different style of grinder housing?

Anyway, from your helpful photos, it appears the innards are the same. Photo colors can get wonky on a computer screen (black/blue vs. white/gold dress, anyone?); one of your winding wires appears to be white, whereas mine is definitely more of a medium brown. I'll assume they're the same, as all the other colors match.

Regarding the resistance values chart - thanks for that, very helpful, I'll check them out asap. The windings values and switch function are clear, but I'm a bit confused with the relay chart - it only has three terminals. A cursory examination (in the dark with just a flashlight) reveals what I believe are two terminal number labels - I believe the white connects to 4, and the red connects to 2. I'll take a closer look during daylight when the rest of the household isn't asleep.

 

[torqueman2002]

My comments are in RED, below. Also, I have updated my above post with the following information.

Thanks Outlawmws - I didn't state it very clearly in my earlier post, but I distinctly recall trying your suggestion of giving it a good "starter spin" just before turning on the power, with no joy. That was a number of years ago, though, so I'll give it another go and see what happens...
Try spinning it just after turning on the power switch.
I take it "r-top" ("r" for round?) is a different style of grinder housing?
Yes.
Anyway, from your helpful photos, it appears the innards are the same. Photo colors can get wonky on a computer screen (black/blue vs. white/gold dress, anyone?); one of your winding wires appears to be white, whereas mine is definitely more of a medium brown. I'll assume they're the same, as all the other colors match.
I agree, also I've seen wire insulation 'age' to look like a different color.
Regarding the resistance values chart - thanks for that, very helpful, I'll check them out asap. The windings values and switch function are clear, but I'm a bit confused with the relay chart - it only has three terminals. A cursory examination (in the dark with just a flashlight) reveals what I believe are two terminal number labels - I believe the white connects to 4, and the red connects to 2. I'll take a closer look during daylight when the rest of the household isn't asleep.
Disregard the row/column for terminal 1, the 'NC' stands for no connection.
Some relays of that design/shape have a terminal 1 above terminal 4. They are used for the dual voltage (115 | 230) grinders. This model is single voltage indicated on the label.