kythri
Well-known member
So, can these jacks using the o-ring be retrofitted with a U-cup when a rebuild is needed?
Let's talk jacks (yet again)
- Thread starter jrlp
- Start date
Some Easier than Others.. Generally the Oring/Shell Version has a Raised Portion on the Ram that has to be Machined off, and or built up with a Washer. I have a Lathe so i simply machine all mine off. I have found on Occasion that the the Sizes are generally not Common for "Direct" Ucup Replacements on some Models, so its Necessary to machine the ID down a MM or 2, Not All of them.. Just certain models.
Its hard to see in the Picture, But if you look near the heel of the Guide you can see the Raised portion. <--- Sorry My Picture taking ability is Fail.
That Portion is what the Shell sits around, And then the Oring seals the Inside of the Ram, And Extrudes to the Outside of the Cylinder Wall when introduced to Pressure.
Used Oring/Shell setup off a Napa Floor Jack.
Typical Ucup.
For s14KEV
Indeed, the OTC 1727 was manufactured in the USA, and it used an u-cup as main seal. That is/was a good jack. But the current model is the OTC 1525 FLOOR BOSS 2 ton. This model uses the o-ring and o-ring retainer as a main seal. The parts breakdown you have may be correct in the sense that it is showing the current model OTC 1525 and not the one you have. That would explain the presence of o-rings in the parts breakdown and not the u-cups you are looking for. And I believe this OTC 1525 is imported because I have seen that same pump in other cheaper chinese jacks. This OTC 1525 has been sold since, I believe, the year 2001. So that means the OTC 1727 has not been available since that time. See below a picture of the OTC 1525.
Please, be kind enough to tell me which OTC jacks are currently manufactured in the USA for, as far as I know, the only ones manufactured in the USA are the rebranded WEAVERS OTC sells. But I could be wrong, of course. With that information I can make the comparison you suggested.
So, in your particular case, you are right and in my case, I am also right.
If you go to the OTCTOOLS.COM web page and you search for your model, 1727, you get a message stating "Your search returned no results". The firts link below takes you to the search page. The second link is the parts breakdown and instructions manual for the current OTC 1525 which replaced the OTC 1727. The third link shows the current line of OTC jacks. Be aware that the pump design was changed for the OTC 1525. The parts breakdown does not show much, but if you look carefully you will see that there is not an u-cup at the end of the ram but an o-ring. See the pump parts below, third picture.
http://www.otctools.com/products/popular.php
http://www2.otctools.com/otctools.com/newcatalog/products/107156_E.pdf
http://www.otctools.com/products/popular.php?page=1&search=Search&keywrds=jacks&cat=
As for the OTC 1552, it sells for anything between $160 to $200. Harbor Freight sold the same jack for $79.99 on sale. So much for the OTC STINGER economy line!
For Hiball
Here is a close up of the parts breakdown for the OTC 5200 pump, first picture. See the o-ring and the o-ring retainer. See also the cartridge!!!
This pump is the same as the one used by the MEGA jack. See the picture of the MEGA jack, model T2X. Also, see a picture of the TORIN T820028D with four wheels and a picture of the optional four wheels for the Mega T2. Also, a picture the OTC 5200.
So, tell me HIBALL, would you pay $500 + for that jack knowing what is inside the pump?
http://www.mega.es/catalogo_automoc...dCategoria=3&nIdSubcategoria=8#zona_descargas
Indeed, the OTC 1727 was manufactured in the USA, and it used an u-cup as main seal. That is/was a good jack. But the current model is the OTC 1525 FLOOR BOSS 2 ton. This model uses the o-ring and o-ring retainer as a main seal. The parts breakdown you have may be correct in the sense that it is showing the current model OTC 1525 and not the one you have. That would explain the presence of o-rings in the parts breakdown and not the u-cups you are looking for. And I believe this OTC 1525 is imported because I have seen that same pump in other cheaper chinese jacks. This OTC 1525 has been sold since, I believe, the year 2001. So that means the OTC 1727 has not been available since that time. See below a picture of the OTC 1525.
Please, be kind enough to tell me which OTC jacks are currently manufactured in the USA for, as far as I know, the only ones manufactured in the USA are the rebranded WEAVERS OTC sells. But I could be wrong, of course. With that information I can make the comparison you suggested.
So, in your particular case, you are right and in my case, I am also right.
If you go to the OTCTOOLS.COM web page and you search for your model, 1727, you get a message stating "Your search returned no results". The firts link below takes you to the search page. The second link is the parts breakdown and instructions manual for the current OTC 1525 which replaced the OTC 1727. The third link shows the current line of OTC jacks. Be aware that the pump design was changed for the OTC 1525. The parts breakdown does not show much, but if you look carefully you will see that there is not an u-cup at the end of the ram but an o-ring. See the pump parts below, third picture.
http://www.otctools.com/products/popular.php
http://www2.otctools.com/otctools.com/newcatalog/products/107156_E.pdf
http://www.otctools.com/products/popular.php?page=1&search=Search&keywrds=jacks&cat=
As for the OTC 1552, it sells for anything between $160 to $200. Harbor Freight sold the same jack for $79.99 on sale. So much for the OTC STINGER economy line!
For Hiball
Here is a close up of the parts breakdown for the OTC 5200 pump, first picture. See the o-ring and the o-ring retainer. See also the cartridge!!!
This pump is the same as the one used by the MEGA jack. See the picture of the MEGA jack, model T2X. Also, see a picture of the TORIN T820028D with four wheels and a picture of the optional four wheels for the Mega T2. Also, a picture the OTC 5200.So, tell me HIBALL, would you pay $500 + for that jack knowing what is inside the pump?
http://www.mega.es/catalogo_automoc...dCategoria=3&nIdSubcategoria=8#zona_descargas
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Based off what It shown in that Breakdown that you Linked.. NO.. I would Not Give $500.00 + for a Jack with Those Components, Nor would i Recommend it to anyone in "Serious" need for a Low Profile Jack.
This Omega would be a Viable Replacement IMO or Ive heard good things about the Arcan <--- No Personal Experience.
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Edgar,
Good man. It is nice to have a discussion with someone who is knowledgeable. You certainly know your jacks well as obviously does Hiball.
Yes. I agree the USA made OTC's are really just the rebranded Weavers now. I was just trying to make a point not to write off all OTC products with blanket statements that they all use o-ring seals exclusively. I make this point only because as a current HW fan, I was very surprised to see that the OTC 1727 I rebuilt appeared to be better built/designed than the HW's I have dealt with.
I actually have the OTC 1727 manual and parts breakdown and it definitely states that the piston pump seal is an o-ring and backup washer when in reality (also when the part is ordered) it is not. The hydraulic unit in the 1727 is much different from the 1525 model. Although the 1525 manual also shows o-ring and backup washer construction, it would be interesting to tear one down and see if this is truly the case given my experience with the 1727.
I have had a hard time determining if the current OTC 1525 is USA. They clearly label the Stinger line as imported. If anyone knows for sure please let me know.
Good man. It is nice to have a discussion with someone who is knowledgeable. You certainly know your jacks well as obviously does Hiball.
Yes. I agree the USA made OTC's are really just the rebranded Weavers now. I was just trying to make a point not to write off all OTC products with blanket statements that they all use o-ring seals exclusively. I make this point only because as a current HW fan, I was very surprised to see that the OTC 1727 I rebuilt appeared to be better built/designed than the HW's I have dealt with.
I actually have the OTC 1727 manual and parts breakdown and it definitely states that the piston pump seal is an o-ring and backup washer when in reality (also when the part is ordered) it is not. The hydraulic unit in the 1727 is much different from the 1525 model. Although the 1525 manual also shows o-ring and backup washer construction, it would be interesting to tear one down and see if this is truly the case given my experience with the 1727.
I have had a hard time determining if the current OTC 1525 is USA. They clearly label the Stinger line as imported. If anyone knows for sure please let me know.
How do you tear down a OTC 5200? I don't see a tank nut.
Link to diagram:
http://www2.otctools.com/otctools.com/newcatalog/products/553737_E.pdf
Link to diagram:
http://www2.otctools.com/otctools.com/newcatalog/products/553737_E.pdf
C-clip on top of a washer keeps the ram from falling out when it extends.
Not according to that breakdown.. The reservoir must be welded to the unit, so no need for a tank nut.
Still have to factor removing the unit from the frame... I guess it just depends on how much you value your time.
Thank you Hiball and Edgar for all the jack information. I probably keep my over 20 year old 2.25 ton jack and rebuild it when the seals give out. When I save up enough money, I going to get the OTC 5200 for the cars which are lower to the ground that I service.
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BTC
Banned
Does anyone have experience with this jack? There is a $99 coupon floating around that's good through 02/23. I'm thinking about picking it up. I've also considered the Costco Arcan 3.25 ton jack, but I've heard it's changed slightly and isn't actually the same jack compared to the 3.5 ton they used to carry. The closest Costco is also an hour away, at least, and after membership fees it would be $160+
http://www.harborfreight.com/automo...k-with-rapid-pump-2-ton-heavy-duty-68050.html
http://www.harborfreight.com/automo...k-with-rapid-pump-2-ton-heavy-duty-68050.html
BTC
Banned
Maybe this wasn't the best thread for my question.
Many on this forum have purchased the Costco Arcan 3.25 ton jack. I'm interested in what kind of seals are in it. Has anyone opened up their Costco Arcan 3.25 ton jack to look at the seals? I doubt any one has done this.
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=36136&highlight=costco+arcan
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=125604&highlight=costco+arcan
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=36136&highlight=costco+arcan
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=125604&highlight=costco+arcan
BTC
Banned
I picked up that 68050 HF jack yesterday for 99 bucks with a coupon. The coupon also knocked the price of a 2 year replacement warranty down to 15 bucks, so I added that as well. I'm curious to see how it does the first time I try to jack up my Grand Cherokee. For 99 bucks, it looks like a decent jack, but I guess looks can be deceiving.
I have the low lift version Arcan (blue in color) prior to the present ARCAN 3.5XL. I rescued it from a scrap metal yard. I did open it and the ram seal was the typical chinese cheap jack seal: o-ring and the o-ring retainer. I also rescued an Arcan 3.5xl but have yet to open it. I doubt very much that the modern Arcan jack has anything more than the o-ring and o-ring retainer.
The Arcan, for the price it is sold, is a good buy even if it has an o-ring and o-ring retainer as a main seal. But, on the contrary, the OTC 5200, mentioned in this thread, at around $500.00, is not a good buy because it uses the o-ring and o-ring retainer as a main seal.
The only relatively low priced jacks that use u-cups are the PRO LIFT jacks made by SHINN FU, which is also the manufacturer of the more expensive HEIN WERNERS along with OMEGAS, BLACKHAWK-BANNERS G737, some CRAFTSMAN and MICHELIN G735. These also use u-cups.
The Arcan, for the price it is sold, is a good buy even if it has an o-ring and o-ring retainer as a main seal. But, on the contrary, the OTC 5200, mentioned in this thread, at around $500.00, is not a good buy because it uses the o-ring and o-ring retainer as a main seal.
The only relatively low priced jacks that use u-cups are the PRO LIFT jacks made by SHINN FU, which is also the manufacturer of the more expensive HEIN WERNERS along with OMEGAS, BLACKHAWK-BANNERS G737, some CRAFTSMAN and MICHELIN G735. These also use u-cups.
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Do any of the current production CRAFTSMAN jacks use u-cups? Most of the CRAFTSMAN jack reviews I have read on sears.com are negative.
How hard is it to tear down a ARCAN 3.5XL? Can you replace the seals with higher quality o-ring and o-ring retainer?
I'm disappointed in the lack of a u-cup in the OTC 5200 but has a good warranty, repair facilities, and contact info, manuals, etc. on their website.
OTC has a Lifetime Marathon Warranty:
http://www.mytoolstore.com/otc/warranty.html
http://www.otctools.com/contact.php
How hard is it to tear down a ARCAN 3.5XL? Can you replace the seals with higher quality o-ring and o-ring retainer?
I'm disappointed in the lack of a u-cup in the OTC 5200 but has a good warranty, repair facilities, and contact info, manuals, etc. on their website.
OTC has a Lifetime Marathon Warranty:
http://www.mytoolstore.com/otc/warranty.html
http://www.otctools.com/contact.php
The Craftsman 4 ton model 50156 uses an u-cup for the ram. But this jack uses the same pump as the Michelin G735 and the Banner-Blackhawk G737. All of these are made by Shinn Fu. I do not know if the Michelin G735, which cost less than the Craftsman, is still available for sale, as I saw a new Michelin, with a different pump set up, for sale in the Canadian Tyre web site.
I tried to see the reviews for the Craftsman but I could not find where to click to see them. Either I missed the review's link or they are not shown anymore. But I guess the reviews are always the same; some people buy these jacks and these work great for many years, others say these stopped working after a few uses.
The Arcan is no harder to tear down than any other jack and you can replace the o-ring with a better quality one but the retainer is another story as these are not readily available unless Arcan sells a rebuid kit fot the jack. I have checked many of the aftermarket hydraulic seals manufacturing and/or distribution companies web sites and I have never seen one of them offering for sale these retainers as an aftermaket product to repair equipment. Probably because these retainers do not represent a big business opportunity for them as these seals are only used in floor and bottle jacks. I guess the demand for these seals would be minimal if any at all. Apparently, the company, or companies, that manufacture these retainers sell them only to the jack manufacturers. So there are no higher quality retainers available to replace the ones that the Arcan, or the OTC 5200, comes with.
Most of these retainers can be replaced with an u-cup but this involves a little machining of the ram end to remove the shallow groove where the o-ring is mounted and the ridge where the retainer is mounted. How much machining is to be done depends also on what u-cup size is available to replace the retainer. If the owner of one of these jacks has a lathe, or a friend with a lathe, it is easy for him replace the retainer.
At least OTC sells repair kits for their jacks so the owner is not left with an unrepairable jack due to parts not being available. The lifetime warranty cover defects in materials and workmanship. Although there is a repair service clause on the OTC Lifetime Warranty, I do not know if it also covers pump rebuilds due to normal wear of the seals. So a lifetime warranty may not mean much if it only covers manufacturing defects.
I tried to see the reviews for the Craftsman but I could not find where to click to see them. Either I missed the review's link or they are not shown anymore. But I guess the reviews are always the same; some people buy these jacks and these work great for many years, others say these stopped working after a few uses.
The Arcan is no harder to tear down than any other jack and you can replace the o-ring with a better quality one but the retainer is another story as these are not readily available unless Arcan sells a rebuid kit fot the jack. I have checked many of the aftermarket hydraulic seals manufacturing and/or distribution companies web sites and I have never seen one of them offering for sale these retainers as an aftermaket product to repair equipment. Probably because these retainers do not represent a big business opportunity for them as these seals are only used in floor and bottle jacks. I guess the demand for these seals would be minimal if any at all. Apparently, the company, or companies, that manufacture these retainers sell them only to the jack manufacturers. So there are no higher quality retainers available to replace the ones that the Arcan, or the OTC 5200, comes with.
Most of these retainers can be replaced with an u-cup but this involves a little machining of the ram end to remove the shallow groove where the o-ring is mounted and the ridge where the retainer is mounted. How much machining is to be done depends also on what u-cup size is available to replace the retainer. If the owner of one of these jacks has a lathe, or a friend with a lathe, it is easy for him replace the retainer.
At least OTC sells repair kits for their jacks so the owner is not left with an unrepairable jack due to parts not being available. The lifetime warranty cover defects in materials and workmanship. Although there is a repair service clause on the OTC Lifetime Warranty, I do not know if it also covers pump rebuilds due to normal wear of the seals. So a lifetime warranty may not mean much if it only covers manufacturing defects.
The reason why I like OTC is the fact that they are a professional operation that has been around, not a fly by night operation. At lease with OTC you can reach them through email or by phone. I hope when it comes around to rebuilding the 5200, they will still offer the rebuild kits. Even if OTC's warranty only covers manufacturing defects, it a great deal more that other jack manufacturers offer. Who knows how long a company like Arcan will stay in business.
Costco has been selling the Arcan 3.5XL jack for a few years now. Before the Arcan 3.5XL jack, Costco kept changing out the jacks every year. I kept seeing new lightweight aluminum jacks and other brands come and go at Costco. I guess that means the Arcan 3.5XL jack is reliable.
Costco has been selling the Arcan 3.5XL jack for a few years now. Before the Arcan 3.5XL jack, Costco kept changing out the jacks every year. I kept seeing new lightweight aluminum jacks and other brands come and go at Costco. I guess that means the Arcan 3.5XL jack is reliable.
Arcan has a new 2 ton extra long low lift jack with higher lift. Check below the current Arcan offering of steel jacks.
http://www.powerstationusa.com/brands/Arcan/?s2=Steel Service Jacks&s1=Lifting Equipment
Also, check the aluminun jacks now sold under the NOS brand. Some of these are also sold by Harbor Freight under the Pittsburgh Automotive brand.
http://www.powerstationusa.com/brands/NOS/?s2=Aluminum Service Jacks&s1=Lifting Equipment
http://www.powerstationusa.com/brands/Arcan/?s2=Steel Service Jacks&s1=Lifting Equipment
Also, check the aluminun jacks now sold under the NOS brand. Some of these are also sold by Harbor Freight under the Pittsburgh Automotive brand.
http://www.powerstationusa.com/brands/NOS/?s2=Aluminum Service Jacks&s1=Lifting Equipment
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BTC
Banned
Any chance that the Arcan and NOS/Pittsburgh Automotive jacks originate from the same company?
I do not remember the exact model number, but I had (2) OTC "STINGER" jacks, and they were sheer GARBAGE. They were a 2 speed pump, yeah that 1 pump to load was nice>> but compared to Walker/Lincoln 642s they were painfully slow once there was weight on them. these Stingers were as I recall 3 ton models.
I was never inside one but my wife went to the local car Quest (whom I have been dealing with nearly daily now, for well over 20 years) and thought it would be nice to buy me a new jack for Christmas so I had no say in what was bought. The guy at the parts store sold her (supposedly) the same jack as he had been using for a few years without issue. My other jack at the time was a Lincoln-made S/O YA 700 which I miss.
The problem with the 1st Stinger started after about oh 10-12 uses at most. The lift plunger "stuck" in a down position and would not release. I tried tapping w/a hammer (lightly) tried twisting the cap with Channellocks and no dice. It sat in a corner for a couple weeks, and I kept an eye on it and finally after that long the plunger snapped back; I tried it again, and on the very 1st pump it stuck down again. So back to the corner. (glad I still had the S/O at that time)
About 6 months later I happened to be in car Quest and the guy that sold my wife that jack asked how it had been working out and I told him my issue which seemed to "puzzle" him and started "defending" his decision to sell my wife that perticular model, telling me about his jack. the store manager was within earshot and told me to bring it in and he'd talk to the District rep about it.
A week went by and I got a call to come to CQ. They had another brand new in the box OTC Stinger the district guy said to get me another one.
Went home, unpacked it and tried it. on the VERY FIRST pump out of the box... plunger stuck. stayed stuck for a couple months, tried it again and same thing 1 pump and the plunger stuck again. After about 2 years of doorstop duty and occasionally asking about parts availability (by now my S/O had died a "terminal" death as well) I bought a used long chassis 4 ton Sears ******** of CL and dropped the OTC off behind the Car Quest salesman's home garage. I have never heard what became of it since, but that jack was an expensive mistake.
I found the reciept here recently from when they swapped that jack out, it was valued at around $229 for the exchange,as I recall, while I had the 1st Stinger jack here, I had seen them advertised in magazines for over $300.as if that was a "special" price of some kind.
This surprised me, as I have owned and used alot of OTC tools over the years and expected way better from them. I cant fault my wife for buying it, as she didn't know any better, I do appreciate that she really tried to get me something nice but it backfired, and bad.
I have since bought another Lincoln-built-for-S/O "642" via CL for a cant pass that deal price of $60 and it works great, didn't have to do anything to it to be able to use it This jack is older than my previous YA 700 was which I had bought new.
I was never inside one but my wife went to the local car Quest (whom I have been dealing with nearly daily now, for well over 20 years) and thought it would be nice to buy me a new jack for Christmas so I had no say in what was bought. The guy at the parts store sold her (supposedly) the same jack as he had been using for a few years without issue. My other jack at the time was a Lincoln-made S/O YA 700 which I miss.
The problem with the 1st Stinger started after about oh 10-12 uses at most. The lift plunger "stuck" in a down position and would not release. I tried tapping w/a hammer (lightly) tried twisting the cap with Channellocks and no dice. It sat in a corner for a couple weeks, and I kept an eye on it and finally after that long the plunger snapped back; I tried it again, and on the very 1st pump it stuck down again. So back to the corner. (glad I still had the S/O at that time)
About 6 months later I happened to be in car Quest and the guy that sold my wife that jack asked how it had been working out and I told him my issue which seemed to "puzzle" him and started "defending" his decision to sell my wife that perticular model, telling me about his jack. the store manager was within earshot and told me to bring it in and he'd talk to the District rep about it.
A week went by and I got a call to come to CQ. They had another brand new in the box OTC Stinger the district guy said to get me another one.
Went home, unpacked it and tried it. on the VERY FIRST pump out of the box... plunger stuck. stayed stuck for a couple months, tried it again and same thing 1 pump and the plunger stuck again. After about 2 years of doorstop duty and occasionally asking about parts availability (by now my S/O had died a "terminal" death as well) I bought a used long chassis 4 ton Sears ******** of CL and dropped the OTC off behind the Car Quest salesman's home garage. I have never heard what became of it since, but that jack was an expensive mistake.
I found the reciept here recently from when they swapped that jack out, it was valued at around $229 for the exchange,as I recall, while I had the 1st Stinger jack here, I had seen them advertised in magazines for over $300.as if that was a "special" price of some kind.
This surprised me, as I have owned and used alot of OTC tools over the years and expected way better from them. I cant fault my wife for buying it, as she didn't know any better, I do appreciate that she really tried to get me something nice but it backfired, and bad.
I have since bought another Lincoln-built-for-S/O "642" via CL for a cant pass that deal price of $60 and it works great, didn't have to do anything to it to be able to use it This jack is older than my previous YA 700 was which I had bought new.
impulse922
Well-known member
i'm happy with my 2ton compaq from asedeals.com
The Arcan aluminum 2 ton jack model NSJ0201 is the same as the Pittsburgh 68051 2 ton aluminum jack. The Arcan aluminum 3 ton jack model NSJ0302 is the same as the Pittsburgh 68052 3 ton jack. So they must come from the same manufacturer, but there is a big difference in the prices. The Arcans are sold at a higher price than the Harbor Freight models.
There are also two short aluminum jacks sold by Harbor Freight, models 68053 and 69252 that are the same jack as the Arcan NSJ0101 except that the Arcan has 2 front wheels and the Harbor Freight models have a single roller, otherwise they are the same. It is not uncommon for a manufacturer to modify jacks per the buyer's (distributor) specifications.
There are also two short aluminum jacks sold by Harbor Freight, models 68053 and 69252 that are the same jack as the Arcan NSJ0101 except that the Arcan has 2 front wheels and the Harbor Freight models have a single roller, otherwise they are the same. It is not uncommon for a manufacturer to modify jacks per the buyer's (distributor) specifications.
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About the Craftsman 4 ton reviews I can see that many of them are negative. Mostly an issue with leaks from the ram o-ring and the loss of oil causes them not to lift at all or only a little. But with better quality o-rings, the jack is a solid performer. Sears is not in the business of repairing jacks, so they tell everyone that the jacks can't be fixed and this is not true. They just want to sell a new jack.
Perhaps some of the other issues with the jacks, apart from the leaking o-rings, are due to the owners not following the instructions to bleed the air, or prime the pump, before using the jack for the first time. Still, Sears should require its supplier to attend these issues by using better quality o-rings and if the supplier doesn't comply, then Sears should stop selling these jacks.
Perhaps some of the other issues with the jacks, apart from the leaking o-rings, are due to the owners not following the instructions to bleed the air, or prime the pump, before using the jack for the first time. Still, Sears should require its supplier to attend these issues by using better quality o-rings and if the supplier doesn't comply, then Sears should stop selling these jacks.
Years ago I was going to buy the Craftsman 3 ton Aluminum Floor Jack then I found out in the reviews that Sears will not sell you replacement parts.
Here's the review:
"This is a nice floor jack until the return spring for the hydralic assembly breaks. It happened to me on a cold day with no load on it yet and pop, return spring broke. I had it less than a year! Thinking since its a craftsman pro series I'll just take it back to the store I purchased it from and get a replacement. No luck for me because I didn't have my proof of purchase. No biggie I thought, I'll just order the part from parts direct. So I go to parts direct and enter the model number and low and behold, they do NOT recognize the model number. So I call. I was told that they do not show this model as servicable but they will submit it to their parts research group since it may be so new it may not be listed yet. Two weeks later I get a message from sears stating that the part is not available. Thats it, no options. If your going to buy this I strongly suggest you don't loose your receipt."
Link to review:
http://community.craftsman.com/Craftsman-3-ton-Aluminum-Floor-Jack--2783-review-f85a0
Here's the review:
"This is a nice floor jack until the return spring for the hydralic assembly breaks. It happened to me on a cold day with no load on it yet and pop, return spring broke. I had it less than a year! Thinking since its a craftsman pro series I'll just take it back to the store I purchased it from and get a replacement. No luck for me because I didn't have my proof of purchase. No biggie I thought, I'll just order the part from parts direct. So I go to parts direct and enter the model number and low and behold, they do NOT recognize the model number. So I call. I was told that they do not show this model as servicable but they will submit it to their parts research group since it may be so new it may not be listed yet. Two weeks later I get a message from sears stating that the part is not available. Thats it, no options. If your going to buy this I strongly suggest you don't loose your receipt."
Link to review:
http://community.craftsman.com/Craftsman-3-ton-Aluminum-Floor-Jack--2783-review-f85a0
Question for Edgar?
Have you had a chance to Dismantle all these Jacks and Verify the Internals? I Understand that Agree that there only a Handful of Hydraulic Units (Styles) in Place in todays Jacks and ill also Agree that of those Variations they can be found in Every color under the Rainbow, With many different stickers and Price Points.
Im Not Doubting what your Saying.. Just Curious if its based off the Pictures or actual dismantling as Current "Exploded View Diagrams" leave a lot to the Imagination (Internally). If you take your Typical Yasui based Jack, There is probably 20+ different configurations that range from Cylinder Size/Type of Seal Used to Pump Piston Size, to How many Rod Seal Grooves are used, to the Cross Section of the Orings and whether they have backups or Wipers.. All the Same Jack based off Appearance, Different story once you get inside.
I Also Agree with this statement as ive seen this type of Production my entire Adult life with Import jacks. Essentially its why i have to carry 300 various sizes of Orings and Multiple Ucup sizes.
Just Curious.. As i Dont work on too many of the Aluminum Jacks anymore, When HF first starting selling them, I took quite a bit of them into the shop and they where Cheap and Easy to Rebuild. Its Just not Cost Effective for me or the Customer anymore, And Probably More based off how i value my Time. Since my Grandfather has passed, I not only have to take care of my Main Job, I also have to handle my House/Farm and Now my Grandparents Place. There's just not enough hours in the Day... And Im Busier than i really want to be..
Have you had a chance to Dismantle all these Jacks and Verify the Internals? I Understand that Agree that there only a Handful of Hydraulic Units (Styles) in Place in todays Jacks and ill also Agree that of those Variations they can be found in Every color under the Rainbow, With many different stickers and Price Points.
Im Not Doubting what your Saying.. Just Curious if its based off the Pictures or actual dismantling as Current "Exploded View Diagrams" leave a lot to the Imagination (Internally). If you take your Typical Yasui based Jack, There is probably 20+ different configurations that range from Cylinder Size/Type of Seal Used to Pump Piston Size, to How many Rod Seal Grooves are used, to the Cross Section of the Orings and whether they have backups or Wipers.. All the Same Jack based off Appearance, Different story once you get inside.
I Also Agree with this statement as ive seen this type of Production my entire Adult life with Import jacks. Essentially its why i have to carry 300 various sizes of Orings and Multiple Ucup sizes.
Just Curious.. As i Dont work on too many of the Aluminum Jacks anymore, When HF first starting selling them, I took quite a bit of them into the shop and they where Cheap and Easy to Rebuild. Its Just not Cost Effective for me or the Customer anymore, And Probably More based off how i value my Time. Since my Grandfather has passed, I not only have to take care of my Main Job, I also have to handle my House/Farm and Now my Grandparents Place. There's just not enough hours in the Day... And Im Busier than i really want to be..
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For Hiball
I understand what you are saying about there being jacks that look the same outside but can be different inside but that was in the era when jack manufacturers built their own jacks and they cared about the longevity of the jacks. Unfortunately, the yasui era is long gone. Nowadays, with "disposable jacks", it is hard to find a jack distributor, in this case Arcan, for example, that will go the extra mile and have a jack built to better specifications (seals) than what the china manufacturer, who supplies Arcan and probably also Harbor Freight, usually builds. Most distributors will, most likely, buy whatever is available at the time and the way it is available, without any extra-cost modifications. The jacks sold by Arcan are made in China. So are the jacks sold by Harbor Freight. It is easy for an USA, or elsewhere, distributor to buy the same jack as another seller but have at least the color changed and the appropiate decals added.
Anyway, if you look at the pictures you will see that these jacks are the same (not look alikes) except for the color and the decals. If they look exactly the same, they simply have to be built by the same manufacturer and most likely the same way, unless the jack manufacturer wants to carry two parts inventories for the same jack. These are like twin brothers dressed differently. So there is an extremely high probability that the internals are the same. This is like the Lincoln/Hein Werners 93642 and their rebranded brothers. Different colors and decals, maybe some cosmetics differences, but same internals. Another example is the OTC 5200 and the Mega T2 discussed here before. They look the same in the pictures, although different in color, and the internals are the same, as the parst breakdowns for both show the same parts. I would be hugely surprised and dumbfounded if the Arcan jacks and the Harbor Freight jacks have different internals because there is no reason for it to be so. People can't see what's inside the pumps so why change it, why make it better in low to moderately priced jacks? Arcan does not have a big reputation of "building"/selling high quality jacks or better jacks than the rest of the sellers. Most people probably know about Arcan only because of the 3.5XL jacks sold by Costco.
I have not taken apart these jacks per se but I have taken apart the early steel Arcan predecessor to the current 3.5XL and it had inside the same type of o-ring and o-ring retainer mentioned elsewhere in this thread. Because of this, I highly doubt that the aluminum Arcan jacks have better internals (seals) than the Harbor Freight jacks, unless the Harbor Freight jack has cardboard seals! The average buyer does not know the difference about better internals, so why would Arcan go the extra mile and have better internals if the buyer is going to buy it anyway because of the looks of the jacks which are all pretty and colorful. Arcan does not mention anything in their web site as having jacks with better seals than the competitors, so this (having better internals) is not a selling point. If these jacks sell is because they look cool.
These companies, which sell moderately priced jacks, are in business to make money so they will buy as cheap as possible. Adding better internals, at extra cost, is not cost effective for them. You could have this in companies that distribute higher priced jacks and you can be sure they will use this "better internals" as a selling point to differentiate their product from the competitors. OTC, for example, does not care to have better internals in their jacks because their jacks will sell anyway, either with better seals or cheap seals, because of the OTC good reputation of the tools they sell. More profit for them.
Nowadays, the pump that took the place of the yasui pump, is the one made by the chinese manufacturer TONGRUN, which is the maker of the Torin jacks. Most chinese jacks that have the same look as the OTC 1504 shown below use the same pump, which by the way, is the same pump that you used in your imported jack repair tutorial. These pumps usually have the letters TR cast in the front part of the pump body. Apart from selling jacks, TONGRUN also sells the pumps to different chinese manufacturers ( there is a lot of them) and these build their own jack bodies/chassis, so the quality of the build can vary but they still look similar.
For itwnexus
The Craftsman 3 ton aluminum jack is built by Shinn Fu. It can be repaired. The owner's manual gives you a telephone number at the bottom of page 6. It says "For after sale support and assistance call 888-332-6419". That phone number is the Shinn Fu toll free number. So you are supposed to call Shinn Fu and not Sears. See third picture below. Maybe Shinn Fu has a repair kit for it. You certainly don't have to buy the whole pump. And even if there is no kit, the parts can be sourced from a local hydraulic shop. Sears tells everyone that the jacks they sell are not repairable and this is not true.
I understand what you are saying about there being jacks that look the same outside but can be different inside but that was in the era when jack manufacturers built their own jacks and they cared about the longevity of the jacks. Unfortunately, the yasui era is long gone. Nowadays, with "disposable jacks", it is hard to find a jack distributor, in this case Arcan, for example, that will go the extra mile and have a jack built to better specifications (seals) than what the china manufacturer, who supplies Arcan and probably also Harbor Freight, usually builds. Most distributors will, most likely, buy whatever is available at the time and the way it is available, without any extra-cost modifications. The jacks sold by Arcan are made in China. So are the jacks sold by Harbor Freight. It is easy for an USA, or elsewhere, distributor to buy the same jack as another seller but have at least the color changed and the appropiate decals added.
Anyway, if you look at the pictures you will see that these jacks are the same (not look alikes) except for the color and the decals. If they look exactly the same, they simply have to be built by the same manufacturer and most likely the same way, unless the jack manufacturer wants to carry two parts inventories for the same jack. These are like twin brothers dressed differently. So there is an extremely high probability that the internals are the same. This is like the Lincoln/Hein Werners 93642 and their rebranded brothers. Different colors and decals, maybe some cosmetics differences, but same internals. Another example is the OTC 5200 and the Mega T2 discussed here before. They look the same in the pictures, although different in color, and the internals are the same, as the parst breakdowns for both show the same parts. I would be hugely surprised and dumbfounded if the Arcan jacks and the Harbor Freight jacks have different internals because there is no reason for it to be so. People can't see what's inside the pumps so why change it, why make it better in low to moderately priced jacks? Arcan does not have a big reputation of "building"/selling high quality jacks or better jacks than the rest of the sellers. Most people probably know about Arcan only because of the 3.5XL jacks sold by Costco.
I have not taken apart these jacks per se but I have taken apart the early steel Arcan predecessor to the current 3.5XL and it had inside the same type of o-ring and o-ring retainer mentioned elsewhere in this thread. Because of this, I highly doubt that the aluminum Arcan jacks have better internals (seals) than the Harbor Freight jacks, unless the Harbor Freight jack has cardboard seals! The average buyer does not know the difference about better internals, so why would Arcan go the extra mile and have better internals if the buyer is going to buy it anyway because of the looks of the jacks which are all pretty and colorful. Arcan does not mention anything in their web site as having jacks with better seals than the competitors, so this (having better internals) is not a selling point. If these jacks sell is because they look cool.
These companies, which sell moderately priced jacks, are in business to make money so they will buy as cheap as possible. Adding better internals, at extra cost, is not cost effective for them. You could have this in companies that distribute higher priced jacks and you can be sure they will use this "better internals" as a selling point to differentiate their product from the competitors. OTC, for example, does not care to have better internals in their jacks because their jacks will sell anyway, either with better seals or cheap seals, because of the OTC good reputation of the tools they sell. More profit for them.
Nowadays, the pump that took the place of the yasui pump, is the one made by the chinese manufacturer TONGRUN, which is the maker of the Torin jacks. Most chinese jacks that have the same look as the OTC 1504 shown below use the same pump, which by the way, is the same pump that you used in your imported jack repair tutorial. These pumps usually have the letters TR cast in the front part of the pump body. Apart from selling jacks, TONGRUN also sells the pumps to different chinese manufacturers ( there is a lot of them) and these build their own jack bodies/chassis, so the quality of the build can vary but they still look similar.
For itwnexus
The Craftsman 3 ton aluminum jack is built by Shinn Fu. It can be repaired. The owner's manual gives you a telephone number at the bottom of page 6. It says "For after sale support and assistance call 888-332-6419". That phone number is the Shinn Fu toll free number. So you are supposed to call Shinn Fu and not Sears. See third picture below. Maybe Shinn Fu has a repair kit for it. You certainly don't have to buy the whole pump. And even if there is no kit, the parts can be sourced from a local hydraulic shop. Sears tells everyone that the jacks they sell are not repairable and this is not true.
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Edgar, I noticed that the Craftsman 3 ton aluminum jack document that you posted with the 888-332-6419 makes no mention of Shinn Fu.
Edgar, have you ever called the 888-332-6419 to talk to a knowledgeable Shinn Fu person?
99.9999 percent of people do not know that the Craftsman 3 ton aluminum jack is built by Shinn Fu so they will try to speak to someone at Sears to solve the jack problem.
Sear's attitude towards defective jacks is: it's your problem. Most Sear's tool employees that I have encountered know very little about jacks and tools.
I think its dumb of Sears to make the buyer bleed the air out of the jack before using it. Most people who buy a jack won't do that; they will just start jacking up the car with the jack.
I do not need the headache of dealing with Sears/Shinn Fu. I'll take my chances with OTC which is a professional tool company.
OTC techinical hotline: 1-800-533-6127, fax: 1-800-955-8329, email: [email protected]
http://www.otctools.com/service/tech.php
Edgar, have you ever called the 888-332-6419 to talk to a knowledgeable Shinn Fu person?
99.9999 percent of people do not know that the Craftsman 3 ton aluminum jack is built by Shinn Fu so they will try to speak to someone at Sears to solve the jack problem.
Sear's attitude towards defective jacks is: it's your problem. Most Sear's tool employees that I have encountered know very little about jacks and tools.
I think its dumb of Sears to make the buyer bleed the air out of the jack before using it. Most people who buy a jack won't do that; they will just start jacking up the car with the jack.
I do not need the headache of dealing with Sears/Shinn Fu. I'll take my chances with OTC which is a professional tool company.
OTC techinical hotline: 1-800-533-6127, fax: 1-800-955-8329, email: [email protected]
http://www.otctools.com/service/tech.php
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Edgar... "IF" that's the case and there are no internal differences between all these models I feel sorry for the hydraulic jack worlds future.. I'm grateful that my hydraulic needs are met, IMO the best days are gone.
I have called Shinn Fu with mixed results. Sometimes I get a person with better knowledge than another about the products and the parts they sell.
Most, if not all, jack manufacturers request/require in the instructions that the jack be bled before using. This is because the jack can lose its prime during transit if the jack is stored upside down, for example. If you buy an OTC, you still will have to bleed the jack. It is the same with Hein Werners, with Norcos, with AFF, etc. See below the bleeding procedure for the OTC 5200.
The instructions are there to be read, unfortunately most people don't read them. Happens with all the tools that come with instructions. If a person calls the phone number provided in the instructions, he will find out that the 3 ton Craftsman aluminum jack is made by Shinn Fu.
Sears is not in the business of repairing jacks, so they can't help you there. And the sales associates probably don't know anything about the jacks except the price.
Most, if not all, jack manufacturers request/require in the instructions that the jack be bled before using. This is because the jack can lose its prime during transit if the jack is stored upside down, for example. If you buy an OTC, you still will have to bleed the jack. It is the same with Hein Werners, with Norcos, with AFF, etc. See below the bleeding procedure for the OTC 5200.
The instructions are there to be read, unfortunately most people don't read them. Happens with all the tools that come with instructions. If a person calls the phone number provided in the instructions, he will find out that the 3 ton Craftsman aluminum jack is made by Shinn Fu.
Sears is not in the business of repairing jacks, so they can't help you there. And the sales associates probably don't know anything about the jacks except the price.
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BTC
Banned
I unboxed the HF 68050 last night. I installed the handle. bled the pump and jacked up the front of my Jeep. It worked, and raised it pretty darn high. It also seemed to lower the Jeep in a fairly controlled manner, but I did seem to have to keep opening the valve a little to keep lowering. It seemed like it would lower a little bit and stop, lower a little and stop. That hasn't really been my experience in the past. Most jacks have usually lowered the car, or whatever you're lifting, until it's on the ground once the valve has been opened. Does that sound normal? I only raised and lowered my Jeep once just to see if the jack worked.
Now to get some jack stands, and maybe some sort of pad for the saddle.
Now to get some jack stands, and maybe some sort of pad for the saddle.
Id try Cycling the Jack a few times to see if it doesnt get any better, If it was shuddering on the Release Light i wouldnt worry too much, Since its doing it under load it almost makes me think something is impeding the Oil Path (Air/Foreign particle between the ball/Seat). Its hard to Gauge things like this over the Internet, But i would definitely give it a few Up/Down cycles under load and see if you can find a Release position that doesnt Drop the Car Dangerously but gives it a Non-Stop Release.
Most of your Hydraulic Jack Orings are made of Buna-N, There is a Quality difference between a HF kit and ones that come from a Manufacturer such as Martin Fluid Power. <-- Where all mine come from. As of 5 years ago i used to be able to get them.. If i dug hard enough i could probably find New ones.. But its really a Rocky road because its so much better to replace them with a Regular UCup. I keep a Drawer here that has some Used ones in it.. I dont know why, i just have a hard time throwing things away sometimes, "Most" of these have all Good Retainers and would be useable with a New Oring. As i state Earlier, I have a Lathe so its Not a big deal in regards to modifying the Ram if needed to fit a standard Ucup.
This is easy to solve, just call your local hydraulic shop and ask them if they sell single retainers (not in kit form from the original jack manufacturer or distributor ) as an aftermarket replacement seal not directed towards any specific brand or model. Also google "HYDRAULIC SEALS" and call all of the companies selling aftermarket replacement seals and aks them if they sell aftermarket replacement o-ring retainers. If anyone finds one selling them, please let me know.
As stated before, the best way to deal with this is to replace them with an u-cup.
As stated before, the best way to deal with this is to replace them with an u-cup.
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I dont think your gonna find them at any of your Major Seal Suppliers such as MFP/Hercules etc.... But if you need some i can probably get them... Im not gonna guarantee that they are gonna be cost effective though and i think we can both agree its a Downgrade in sealing performance.
Higher Cost + Less Sealing Performance = Why even bother.
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