Lifts????: Scissor, 2 post, 4 post, storage, ect.

[N_Jay]

What do people like and use?
What works and what is ****?
Mistakes made and lessons learned.

And . . . .Discuss.

I am starting to think about a lift for my garage-shop, not to get right away, but in thinking about how I need to prep the building and floor.

Heaviest thing I have right now is a GL diesel at a letting under 5.5 K curb weight.

 

[jetlag]

I easily lift my Ram 2500 on a Mohawk 10k 2 post. The extra capacity is a margin of safety, in case the truck isn't perfectly balanced.

 

[bbmach]

Prep for the heaviest load... lifting 6,000 lbs is lifting 6,000 lbs. Ultimately, you need to decide what you want to do with the lift? Rotate tires and make oil changes easier? R&R Exhaust and Transmissions? Raise one car and store another under it?

Besides the floor, make sure you have enough ceiling height.

Each lift type has a purpose and application...

A quick search will yield all of the info you could ever want. Lifts have to be one of the most discussed subjects here on GJ.

Good luck!

 

[N_Jay]

Yes, looking at 7K and 9/10Klifts.

Seems they get discussed as part of other topics like garage builds.
I did a search, any particular threads here that are good?

How difficult is it to balance with two post?
Are there any down sides to a 4 post?
How hard it it to do real work on a scissor lift?

 

[randyandrewsberg]

Here is how I see it;

2 post - best for all types of service on vehicle, install isn't difficult if your floor is thick enough already. Probably what most think of when they imagine having a lift.

4 post - easiest install, good for all types of service on vehicle, but with extra steps for suspension and wheels. Also great for additional parking spaces, as you can park under them easily, no issues with opening doors.

Scissor - install takes the most work. Biggest advantage is the loss of zero floor space with a flush install. If you use your lift occasionally and have other uses for the floor space, this means a lot more that if you use it daily. Comparable to 2 post for effectiveness of use for auto service. Extra steps required if you are trying to lift a body from a frame. Also better for motorcycle lift, it is possible to set them to only lift one instead of both.

 

[ScaldedDog]

If 2-post functionality ends up being right for you, and you are planning for a future build, consider an in-ground like the Rotary Smartlift. No posts, no asymetrric/symmetric considerations, no balance concerns.

They only thing they are terrible at is adding an extra parking space, unless you just need space for a bike or mower.

Mark

Sent from my SM-G986U using Tapatalk

 

[N_Jay]

Well, was not really looking at an in-floor lift.
The scissor lifts I was looking at were either portable (Body/Frame lift) or semi-permanent. (two tracks).
Seems like 2 post above ground are really popular, but every time I look at one I wonder about balance. Maybe it is not an issue, but certainly looks like an issue.

I am trying to figure out the workflow in the garage so I can get the floor thickened where I need it Any tips on what worked (and what did not work) would be great.

As for types of work, not doing a full rebuild, but do a little bit of everything. I am tired of doing brake jobs sitting on the ground, and little exhaust repairs on a creeper, and rotating tires with jacks and jackstands, and . . .

 

[bagged89s10]

I’m building a garage now and I plan to put in a 4 post. Mainly my project truck will just stay parked on it and I’ll be able to park another car under it. I like the flexibility of being able to move it. I’ve also seen where you can add built in jacks underneath to lift your vehicle to do tire/brake/suspension work.

 

[txvwnut]

I’ve got two Snap-on mid-rise scissor lifts and for me they have been pretty much the perfect lift for me and what I do. I’ve lifted my diesel super duty on them to replace the clutch and have done a considerable amount of under vehicle work with them. Which brings the topic of under vehicle work with a scissor, it can be done just takes some creative thinking and tall stands. Mid-rise scissors do eat up floor space so you will be parking over them and stepping over them in the shop but if you get one that has a solid top it can double as a work space when you don’t need for a vehicle.

 

[JRC3]

TGJF = TheGoogleJournalForum

 

[59 wagon man]

stay away from an inground lift . be realistic with your needs. i had a few 2 posts as a hobbyist, but i sold them and got a 4 post mainly used for storage and light service. as you get older a 4 post can make it easier on your knees as you drive right on a 4 post but always have to set up a 2 post

 

[ScaldedDog]

stay away from an inground lift . be realistic with your needs. i had a few 2 posts as a hobbyist, but i sold them and got a 4 post mainly used for storage and light service. as you get older a 4 post can make it easier on your knees as you drive right on a 4 post but always have to set up a 2 post

Why is that?

Mark

Sent from my SM-G986U using Tapatalk

 

[N_Jay]

So it seems like 4 post are best for storage and general work, and two posts are better for work that requires taking off the wheels.

I don't (or better not) need the storage space. (My wife will kill me if I build the shop just to fill it with cars.)

On the other hand, I am always pulling a wheel for something. Brakes, Shocks, rotate tires, or just to add clearance for working through the wheel well.

So what are the downsides of two post lifts?
I realize they can be "in the way" when not needed.
I will need to build a ramp to get my 914 on the ramp.
I will need to 'always' be getting on the floor to position the arms.

Is balance really an issue, or am I over worrying?

What about the "portable" two post lifts?

 

[mikegt4]

Why is that?

Mark

Sent from my SM-G986U using Tapatalk

Obviously you are not "older". The older you get the taller you become, or at least it seems that the ground is farther away. Getting down on your knees becomes more difficult and even painful, getting back up is even worse. Your ability to get down on the ground and arrange the lift arms on a 2 post becomes an important issue to us more senior hobbyists. If you are young and healthy it isn't an issue at all.

 

[ScaldedDog]

Obviously you are not "older". The older you get the taller you become, or at least it seems that the ground is farther away. Getting down on your knees becomes more difficult and even painful, getting back up is even worse. Your ability to get down on the ground and arrange the lift arms on a 2 post becomes an important issue to us more senior hobbyists. If you are young and healthy it isn't an issue at all.

I'm 62, with 30000 running miles on my legs, and still put 500-1000 mountain biking miles on them.

What does that have to do with staying away from an in-ground lift?

Mark

Sent from my SM-G986U using Tapatalk

 

[N_Jay]

Well, just past 60, and yes getting down and up is just a little harder than it used to be.

So how do you pull wheels in the four post? Do you take it up and then put it on tall jackstands and lower the lift a bit?

 

[firebirdparts]

Seems like 2 post above ground are really popular, but every time I look at one I wonder about balance. Maybe it is not an issue, but certainly looks like an issue.

Having a lift is 1000X better than not having one. The two post is the best to work on. it is the worst to put a car on. if you put a car on your lift once a month, like I do, it's got a big benefit per aggravation. In shops where they put 5 cars a day on, they still use two posts because of the access, but then those guys can retire. they're not using that lift when they're 80. If you just want to drive on, then you can using a 4 post.

Structurally, the 4 posters are pretty scary to me. The only rigidity they can have is through moment connections at the corners, and those connections have to slide. Structurally, as an engineer, I really don't like it. YMMV. A car can't fall off it within reason.

Balance is a huge issue with the 2 post. You have to treat the lift like it actually is. It doesn't think. You do that. A car will fall off it, but it's not going to collapse within reason.

 

[JRC3]

Then there's always the trusty mid-lift.

-Park over it everyday
-Can be used as a lift table and/or workbench
-Moveable
-Inexpensive

I'd much prefer an in-floor scissor, but the cost.



But what else can you put an enclosed trailer on...

...Put your riding mower on...

...Use as a workbench...

...Loading dock...

...trucks...

...cars...

...Minivans...

 

[59 wagon man]

the inground lift is a maintenance nightmare thats why they aren't that popular anymore. imagine the problems if the line is the ground leaks either hydraulic oil or air

 

[59 wagon man]

Obviously you are not "older". The older you get the taller you become, or at least it seems that the ground is farther away. Getting down on your knees becomes more difficult and even painful, getting back up is even worse. Your ability to get down on the ground and arrange the lift arms on a 2 post becomes an important issue to us more senior hobbyists. If you are young and healthy it isn't an issue at all.

it can really be a pain when your lowered car( saleen mustang) needs to go up on ramps just so you can swing the lift arms enough to lift the car
x - frame gm cars are a pain also

no to hard to drop a car off the 2 post lift, which ***** the lift a little sideways so its stuck.in the air and when it finally releases it drops the truck to the ground and bends the frame. ask tire kingdom how they did it

 

[Junkman]

Well, just past 60, and yes getting down and up is just a little harder than it used to be.

So how do you pull wheels in the four post? Do you take it up and then put it on tall jackstands and lower the lift a bit?

If you think it is difficult when you are just past 60, wait until you are closing in on 80! I can still do a lot of things, but getting up off the floor is getting more challenging every day. Even my impact gun is starting to feel too heavy for my hands. Getting old isn't easy, and you don't realize how difficult it is until you are there. I'm hoping to get to 100, just not certain that my body is going to co-operate with my request.

 

[ScaldedDog]

the inground lift is a maintenance nightmare thats why they aren't that popular anymore. imagine the problems if the line is the ground leaks either hydraulic oil or air

He fifties called. They want their lift back.

I've owned two Smartlifts in the last dozen years, with exactly zero problems. If there is an issue, everything is serviced from above. No imagining of problems necessary.

As for popularity, lots of high end dealerships install these by the dozen. They aren't common in homes, mostly due to cost and fear of digging a big hole in the ground, but they are terrific work lifts. I've got a thread on the most recent install from this summer.

They aren't for everyone, but certainly worthy of consideration.

Mark

Sent from my SM-G986U using Tapatalk

 

[mikegt4]

I'm 62, with 30000 running miles on my legs, and still put 500-1000 mountain biking miles on them.

What does that have to do with staying away from an in-ground lift?

Mark

Sent from my SM-G986U using Tapatalk

Nothing, it's a 2 post vs 4 post comparison.

 

[1MtnGoat]

The best lift depends on what type of use it's going to get and what you want to spend. Its a personal decision.

A 2-post takes less real estate than a 4-post and is cheaper. The floor under the post area may need a bit of beefing up. Posts must be anchored to the floor. Drive line is totally exposed, tire rotations and brake work are easy. If you wish to lift a body off the chassis or drop an engine cradle it can be done. Balance/vehicle placement is critical when preparing to lift. One must get down on the floor to verify where the lift arms are contacting the frame/body. Arm placement when lifting most low slung vehicles can be accomplished by driving up on a short piece of 2x8 placed in front of each wheel before swinging arms under vehicle.

A 4-post hoist is easy to position vehicle on - just drive on and set parking brake. (I placed a convex mirror on the wall in front of the lift so I could see to center the vehicle) A set of longer removable ramps takes care of the lower vehicles. Some do not need to be anchored to the floor and can be rolled about when unloaded. However a anchored 4-post lift is much more stable. Most can be placed on 4" of well placed 4k concrete. For brake/tire rotations a pair of rolling jacks is a must. (bottle jacks on a cross beam can be used but are a pain) The rolling jacks will add to the expense of the lift. There are no posts in the way of opening vehicle doors. For those who have the expertise and want a perfect wheel alignment 4-post lifts can be purchased with alignment capabilities.

I started out using an in ground lifts. They were always in the way of some part of the chassis or driveline, Next was a good 9k asymmetric 2 post. It was convenient in many ways as listed above. As I got older getting down on the floor to place lift arms was getting to be a chore. When I built my new shop a couple of years ago I kept watching CL and was able to purchase a 12K, 4-post BendPak alignment lift with 2 6k rolling jacks from a tire shop that had gone out of business. My son and I disassembled it brought it home, cleaned it up sandblasted a bit of surface rust and painted it with matching urethane paint. Most people who visit the shop think it was purchased new. Total cost about 25% of new.

As you can see there are many variables. The choice is up to you.

 

[finn]

I have a two post, but would recommend a four post if you plan on getting old and still play with cars.

Ten years ago I wouldn’t have said that, but eventually your knees get older than the rest of your body and it gets difficult and painful to set the lift arms.

I have the space, so I will be adding a four post this spring or summer.

 

[ezzzzzzz]

I had a BP 4 post for years. It served me well but ate up a lot of space. It was fine for oil changes and brake service but the limits of space between the rails made some work cumbersome. It was great for two vehicle storage. I now own a much larger shop and a Forward 2 post lift. It takes up much less room, allows for expansive services and could be used to park that extra vehicle. The advice I'd give is get the tallest and widest you can fit and still work around comfortably.

 

[fteufert]

What brand jack stands are you using?

I too have a Midrise lift (Snapon) and would love to do the same

 

[JRC3]

What brand jack stands are you using?

Sunex Tools 1410. JEGS has them too with their name and paint on them. Might even be a little cheaper.

 

[infinkc]

I have both 4 and 2 posts in my garage. The 4 post are just for car storage, i didnt plan to use them to work on.

I use my 2 post for working on my cars. I bought an asymmetric Bendpak XPR-10AS. I mounted it so i can work on my Tundra which actually put it more forward than i wanted. I kind of wish i went with a symmetric to be more centered in the garage. I work on a bunch of compact cars more than the truck, so it really puts the smaller cars really forward in my garage. I would have had a lot more room to work with a symmetric. This was something that i didnt take into consideration when i was shopping for a lift.

 

[SportFury59]

I have a 2 post in my detached 30'x48' detached garage. One of my son's recently acquired it and installed it. (I didn't say "no".) I recently used it to install 2 CV axels, 2 ball joints, new brakes all around, a little body work on rear wheel well lip, rotate tires and touch up/paint wheels. All this done on a Subaru Forester. That 2-post made everything quick and easy.
Before I removed the car from the lift, I marked the lift points (white paint) under the car and made a "story pole" to mark the position the car has to be for the lift arms to easily be placed in correct position. Hopefully that will reduce the number of times of getting up and down off floor to position everything as well as knowing it's balanced safely.

 

[rockcrawler]

Im waiting on my BendPak XPR-10S to be delivered and installed this week. I chose a two post for the access to wheels, brakes, etc. Also, I can swing the arms to the front or rear and have a clear space to park a vehicle. As far as balance goes, I don’t think it will be a big issue if you are always lifting the same vehicles. I plan on marking the frame on my vehicles, once the best balance location is found, so I don’t have to guess every time. I will also be purchasing two under hoist jacks/supports (one in front and me in back) for peace of mind.

 

[rockcrawler]

Before I removed the car from the lift, I marked the lift points (white paint) under the car and made a "story pole" to mark the position the car has to be for the lift arms to easily be placed in correct position.

Funny! We were both typing the same idea at the same time.

 

[SportFury59]

Funny! We were both typing the same idea at the same time.

brilliant minds think alike (or something like that)

 

[tulowd]

Greetings and Salutations, Everyone:

Name is Paul from Toronto, Canada; love this board; the 12g Garage led me to GJ. Mostly a lurker on here, haven't posted much before.

Recently picked up a decent condition older Nussbaum Jumbo NT 7000# double platform 7 ft scissor lift, made in Germany. It came out of a Mercedes Benz dealership. One of my Foxbody Mustang friends works in the hoist service industry, so he hooked me up. It's an older machine that he had rebuilt the two primary cylinder on. Took six of us to move them, they're app 1100 # each. I figured out a few tricks later on, when I moved them into position in my car shelter (!) by myself. Had to do the hydraulic hose ends ID and layout and then order the hydraulic hoses and 4 adaptor connectors in order to flip everything to JIC -4 or -6. Had to make a plug for the 240V and grab 4 gallons of hydraulic fluid and screw around with a few other things including manually lifting one platform to 4 ft in order to be able to remove a hose from one cylinder. Spent a whole day on this, incl running out to grab a 60" Farm Jack, which ended up working in tandem with my snowmobile crane. Then it took us only about 3 hrs and several beers one afternoon at around 25*F to connect everything, bleed and sync the platforms, etc. All told, it cost me about the same as a new 7000 # Quick Jack.

This setup will now lift my convertible Fox over 40" into the air; once I slide the overhead lights a foot outbound, it will be an honest 4 ft; high enough to do oil changes and anything underneath on a rolling seat.
Awesome and pleasant surprise!
Had to put down 6 large patio stones so the car can get up, on and over the platforms, which are 4-1/2" above the surface. Since the shelter is only app 9 ft across inside, I played around with a sketch and scaled cutouts to determine the position of the hoist in relation to the car and the shelter. Still have app 2ft of walkaround space on the sides and app 1 ft at the entrance, so the space in front of the car (closest to the garage/tools) is maximized for access and tool carts. The platforms are 2 ft wide and are positioned app 2 feet apart. That is about the min space for below access and still positions the lifting points about 8 inches from the inside. Can reposition them if needed, since the hoses are nice and long. Currently, 4 pieces of 2x4 lie flat on the platforms under the subframe connectors under the floor of the car.

Works perfectly, is even relatively quiet and a German example of engineering and packaging. We lifted them to their full 7 ft height while bleeding them, marvelous, really. Only downside is they're not designed to keep vehicles in the air for long periods of time, since they're hydraulic locking, not mechanical like most cable equipped lifts.
Will work around that, since the car is finally drivable after 5 yrs of work.

Yes; having a lift inside a car shelter is totally Ghetto Garage....... but my 1.5 car garage is full of tools, equipment and work benches......and .....beggars can't be choosers......

Here are some pics (and two vids, if I can unload them) of the whole scenario.

 

[tulowd]

and some more

 

[GTUnit]

I have a Danmar Scissor Lift but I would not recommend it. Its a mother to move around and its easy to hurt your back doing it. The ergonomics of the system made to move it are seriously deficient bordering on incompetent.
Its a decent lift but it has a 6+ inch resting height so you cannot drive a low sports car onto it and still have clearance to set the lifting pucks. To do this requires ramps such as RaceRamps RR-CLR-4 which cost almost a grand.
For normal ride height height cars and trucks you should be fine.
The lift takes up a decent amount of floor space and is always in the way.

I like the MaxJax system or a quality 2 pole so available garage space is maximized.

 

[Brad1234]

Depends on what you plan to do with it? If you are mostly doing mechanical work, have the ceiling height and don't need the parking spot daily a 2 post is probably the way to go. I chose a Titan scissor lift, the heavy duty one, because I want to park over it daily and I really like using it to detail cars so the posts would be in the way. No more squatting to clean wheels and rocker panels. I can raise a car high enough to sit on a creeper seat and still fit underneath. It works great for brakes and oil changes but would be in the way for muffler and transmission work. I have always been able to service a transmission but I don't think I could pull one out. The only issue I have had is the 2 wheels that move with the lift when it goes up and down started to wear into my cement floor. A piece of stainless sheet metal fixed that. I paid $1800 incl. tax 3-4 years ago. I have no regrets. It was the best choice for my situation.

 

[Shadowdog500]

I have a 2 post in my detached 30'x48' detached garage. One of my son's recently acquired it and installed it. (I didn't say "no".) I recently used it to install 2 CV axels, 2 ball joints, new brakes all around, a little body work on rear wheel well lip, rotate tires and touch up/paint wheels. All this done on a Subaru Forester. That 2-post made everything quick and easy.
Before I removed the car from the lift, I marked the lift points (white paint) under the car and made a "story pole" to mark the position the car has to be for the lift arms to easily be placed in correct position. Hopefully that will reduce the number of times of getting up and down off floor to position everything as well as knowing it's balanced safely.

Can you show or describe your story pole for positioning the vehicle.

My ‘53 Willys Jeep has to be place just right to be able to get all four pads in the proper position with all of the arms fully retracted. If I don’t get in the perfect spot I usually use my foot pump car dollies to reposition it.

 

[javyLSU]

Then there's always the trusty mid-lift.

-Park over it everyday
-Can be used as a lift table and/or workbench
-Moveable
-Inexpensive

I'd much prefer an in-floor scissor, but the cost.

But what else can you put an enclosed trailer on...

...Put your riding mower on...

...Use as a workbench...

...Loading dock...

...trucks...

...cars...

...Minivans...

This post summarizes much better than I can why I chose to go with a mid-rise (portable) scissor lift. Its exactly how I use my lift. My thoughts on the lift I chose here:

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=7892867#post7892867

 

[CraigStu]

Two post is by far the best for ALL types of work. Get a 9 or 10k and forget about balance. It will be fine. I retired from 20+ yrs as a Lexus tech. We had 9k lifts and used them for the smallest car to the largest SUV. The used car techs used them for everything including a dually pickup. 4 post can work IF you spend the extra $900+ each for lift jacks. But the steel runways are way wider than most cars so you lean against the edge of the runway and the tire is 8-12 inches from your chest. Ever try to lift a tire that far away from your chest? Ever have the tire try to get away from you and your elbow hits the edge of that runway when you are trying to control it? To compare types go here;
https://www.gregsmithequipment.com/2-Post-Lift/Overhead-2-Post-Lifts
least expensive hobbyist 4 post = $2595 plus jacks at $900 each
least expensive 2 post = $1695