Light Fixture Layout Collections

[Platonic Solid]

(response moved from Best Light Fixture Thread) ... I’m currently in the process of looking for lighting for a 30’ x 46’ wood shop that I am currently having built. A small office, bathroom and dust collection room will consume up about 8’ on one end with a loft above them. So, the effective space that I’m really concerned about lighting will be 30’ x 38 or 1140 square feet. The walls will be 12’ high with a peak of about 19.5’. ... my builder has allowed for 16 fixtures in four rows of four. He has suggested holding down costs by using the cheap porcelain fixture which takes a screw in bulb and then using LED flood lights. Based upon my research thus far I haven't found any floods that would provide enough lumens. ...

... I’m looking for suggestions. I’d like the shop to be well lit.

So, thus far, I’ve come to the following conclusions:

Get as close as I can afford to 100 lumens per square foot.
Frosted lamps seems to be a wise decision as far as glare is concerned.
LED seems to be more cost efficient all things considered, including the cost of electricity itself.
CRI of about 85.
Does anyone have any suggestions?

Suggestions:
1. Don't listen to your contractor with respect to lighting. Screw-in bulbs are insufficient for a space that big and flood lights are designed for outdoor use for good reason. They do a good job of lighting a limited area and a terrible job of lighting large interior spaces. End result will be significant shadows and an unevenly lit environment that you won’t enjoy being in.

2. Total Qty. 13 of 13,700 Lm Diva Light (linked) at following heights: Sides at 14ft, center peak fixtures dropped down to 16ft to increase fc at 30" workplane. Yes, 1 fixture over the loft area to reduce cave effect.

(image linked to larger view)
​

Mean 93 fc @ 30" workplane
Total luminous flux: 178100 lm
Total Load: 1430W
Light yield: 125 lm/W

Note: All fixtures hanging horizontal to floor. Surface mounting to angled ceiling will change layout.

 

[rotortuner]

rotortuner - Questions:
1. Will the 20ft ceiling area be finished flat or have fixtures mounted to supports at 20ft with ceiling open to the peak?
2. Will lean-to ceilings be finished flat at 2:12 pitch?
3. What material and color will the ceilings be finished with?

1. Current plan is for a finished ceiling.
2. Correct, flat 2/12 pitch.
3. It's going to likely be white faced insulation. Or white metal siding material.

 

[cstolten]

Hello, I am looking for lighting suggestions. Would like to use LED fixtures. My shop space is 45' x 46.5' x 16' tall. Walls and ceiling will be white painted steel. The space will be used for automotive work mostly. Any suggestions would be very much appreciated. Thanks.

 

[Paladin306]

Suggestions:
1. Don't listen to your contractor with respect to lighting. Screw-in bulbs are insufficient for a space that big and flood lights are designed for outdoor use for good reason. They do a good job of lighting a limited area and a terrible job of lighting large interior spaces. End result will be significant shadows and an unevenly lit environment that you won’t enjoy being in.

2. Total Qty. 13 of 13,700 Lm Diva Light (linked) at following heights: Sides at 14ft, center peak fixtures dropped down to 16ft to increase fc at 30" workplane. Yes, 1 fixture over the loft area to reduce cave effect.

(image linked to larger view)
​

Mean 93 fc @ 30" workplane
Total luminous flux: 178100 lm
Total Load: 1430W
Light yield: 125 lm/W

Note: All fixtures hanging horizontal to floor. Surface mounting to angled ceiling will change layout.

Once again, thank you very much. Getting ready to order now.

Mark

 

[Toomanytools?]

Just wondering anybody know who makes the DIVA lights? China, USA other? Or how about the James High Bay?
I have been considering the James HB 165w (ZY-H3-165W) in the 4 foot. I plugged the numbers into the "Acuity" Visual Interior lighting layout but there is no James or Diva brand in the menu so went with the Lithonia c-l232-ssr with specs for the James seems
to work. Similar space as some of the others here 36 x 56 x16 tall, looking to get about 90FC at 30" this is mostly vehicle parking with some fab on one side. The simulator came up with 9 lights. Anyway in the same boat as many trying to figure out how much light I need.
Had an electrician come out told me he had a 24,000ln light round high bay cost was about $500 each plus $300 each installed and he would warranty for 5 years, said I needed 6. So total was about $5000 I laughed him off the property.

 

[Platonic Solid]

Toomanytools? - Both Diva Lite and James products are made in China.
Diva Lite made by Jiaxing Super Lighting Electric Appliance Co. (linked)
James made by James Industry (linked)
I originally thought James made Diva Lite, but that is not the case.

The Acuity Visual Photometric Tool only has Acuity Brand companies IES files, but you can save other companies IES files to your computer and use them with the Acuity Tool.

6 x 24,000 Lm Lights would give you a mean of 56 fc @ workplane.
9 lights = 83 fc ...
12 = 109 fc

too few fixtures in such a large space could result in shadows depending on size and placement of objects in the space. You could end up needing task lighting for some areas/tasks with a 9 or 6 layout.

My preference would be Qty.20 (4x5 pattern) of the 13,700 Lm Diva Lite (or similar output fixture) = 97 fc.

Another option would be Qty.15 of the 19,300 Lm Diva Lite (linked) (or similar) = 106 fc. At 16ft mounting height I don't recommend using anything with higher lumen output than that.

Here's a cost effective option with a reasonable 15 fixture layout: James 16,400 Lm @ $112 ea. (linked) = 91 fc

As a U.S. light fixture manufacturer a 24,000 Lm fixture from me would cost you over $500. Granted the construction quality is a completely different level.
.

 

[Toomanytools?]

Toomanytools? ................

Another option would be Qty.15 of the 19,300 Lm Diva Lite (linked) (or similar) = 106 fc. At 16ft mounting height I don't recommend using anything with higher lumen output than that.

.

Thanks for the Information Platonic, my concerns being higher failure rates in LED components from China. Though I realize some are better than others.

Why would you not recommend a higher lumen output?

Also are there any benefits other than size of a 2 foot fixture over a 4 foot fixture?
Thanks Jeff
Do you know of any USA brands for similar lights?

 

[Platonic Solid]

Fewer higher lumen output fixtures = Uneven light distribution causing more shadows and glare.
Thus your pupils are constantly adjusting to different light levels which lead to eye strain and headaches if you spend any real time in such an environment.

Higher quantity medium output fixtures = Even light distribution, fewer shadows, no glare and no eye strain.

The list of U.S. manufacturers is substantial, but that doesn’t mean their product isn’t partially, mostly or completely manufactured in China or other non-U.S. territories. If this is important to you, look for fixtures labeled “Made in the USA”. Keep in mind that there are very few, if any, LED drivers and LEDs produced in the USA. Even “Made in the USA” products are permitted to have a certain percentage of foreign sourced materials.

It’s very hard for the average consumer to justify the large price difference between Chinese and US produced fixtures. China’s government subsidizes their manufacturers, so they can stay in business without making a profit. That’s how you get an $8 LED tube that has more than $8 of materials in it.

Here are a few lighting manufacturers that may or may not be U.S. based at this point in time:
Lithonia (part of Acuity Brands), Metalux (part of EATON), Philips, CREE, Halco, Hubbell Lighting, Howard Lighting, Remphos, Simkar, Columbia Lighting, RAB, Texas Fluorescents, US Energy Sciences … I’m just doing this off the top of my head so I’m sure I’m missing a lot of them. Purchasing fixtures from some of them will require you to either call the company directly or purchase through their distributors. Very time consuming to do price comparisons that way.

2ft to 4ft comparison is almost irrelevant. Assuming both fixtures are identical except for physical length and both have the same lumen output, then a 4ft fixture has a very slight advantage in spreading those lumens out which results in slightly more even light distribution. The higher the fixtures are mounted the less this matters.

 

[Toomanytools?]

Platonic: again you are a wealth of information thank you for your time.
Jeff

 

[Platonic Solid]

Toomanytools? - I see http://www.texasfluorescents.com/ (yes, they sell LED also) is displaying the "Made in the U.S.A." logo and from what I've seen, their prices are competitive.

 

[Toomanytools?]

Toomanytools? - I see http://www.texasfluorescents.com/ (yes, they sell LED also) is displaying the "Made in the U.S.A." logo and from what I've seen, their prices are competitive.

Came across this company http://http://www.titanledusa.net/ I have seen the commercial before somewhere, can't find prices on the web. Guessing if they have Jay Leno endorsing must be expensive.

 

[stevelh]

I've read through this thread a couple times but did see any recent layouts for a 40x60x16 using led bulbs. Mine will have raised bottom chord trusses, white metal ceiling, and white walls. Did I miss it somewhere, or is there a layout that would be close enough?

 

[Paladin306]

I've read through this thread a couple times but did see any recent layouts for a 40x60x16 using led bulbs. Mine will have raised bottom chord trusses, white metal ceiling, and white walls. Did I miss it somewhere, or is there a layout that would be close enough?

Steve, if you doubled my 30' width and used it for your length I would think you'd come pretty close. (See photo above.) That'd give you dimensions of about 45' by 60' and my ceiling is pretty tall as well. Of course, this is just my untrained answer and nothing is going to compare to Platonic Solid's answer.

Mark

Still working on my signature but the new build is here: https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=6694994#post6694994

 

[stevelh]

Thanks paladin306, I appreciate it.

 

[Dick in Wisconsin]

Heed what Platonic Solid says. He helped me with my layout and I'm happy. The contractor that put the lights in (under a white, Menards DuraPanel (the really thin stuff)) was really impressed with the finished results. Very even light throughout the shop.

Platonic: When you helped me out in 2015 (two years ago) you confirmed for me that going with LEDs was not yet cost effective (especially since the shop wouldn't be used 8 or more hours a day, five or more days a week. Do you think that is still the case?

Interesting side note. I had a temporary crown at the dentist yesterday. He's recently remodeled and upgraded his offices and exam rooms. I asked if the light that he shines in my mouth is LED. He got excited. "YES! Brand new and its the latest technology. With the old light, our (his and his assistant's) eyes were sore at the end of the day; but NOT anymore. The color of the LED light has made a huge difference in how we feel at the end of the day. Love it!"

I thought that was a very interesting aspect of the lighting change my dentist made.

 

[Platonic Solid]

...When you helped me out in 2015 (two years ago) you confirmed for me that going with LEDs was not yet cost effective (especially since the shop wouldn't be used 8 or more hours a day, five or more days a week. Do you think that is still the case?...

Not the case anymore as long as one is willing to accept lesser know Chinese brands. For name brand U.S. fixtures the prices are still quite steep compared to fluorescents. The latest 8,000 to 30,000 lm medium to high bay Chinese LED James Industry and Diva Light fixtures are hard to beat when you take energy savings into consideration.

It's good to hear that your happy with the end result. More importantly, does it function for you after you've filled the space with stuff?

I've been too busy with my shed project to tend to lighting requests here. And from recent posts I make too many mistakes when I rush.

 

[cybrdyke]

Came across this company http://http://www.titanledusa.net/ I have seen the commercial before somewhere, can't find prices on the web. Guessing if they have Jay Leno endorsing must be expensive.

Expensive is correct. More parts required and lots of labor involved to install. And all that for no extra light or efficiency.
Run away....

CD

 

[nsula_country]

Came across this company http://http://www.titanledusa.net/ I have seen the commercial before somewhere, can't find prices on the web. Guessing if they have Jay Leno endorsing must be expensive.

Fixed your link... It was broken.

http://www.titanledusa.net/

http://www.titanledusa.net/

CT

 

[Toomanytools?]

Hmm was working , but thanks

 

[sambo0012]

Plantonic Solid, Thanks for all the information you have shared on this thread. I have done quite a bit of reading but I wanted to see what you thought about my project. I have a very simple small two car garage. It measures 21'x19'. There is a water heater closet in the front left of the garage that measures 28"x67". The overall ceiling height is 8'. I want to install hardwired LED lighting fixtures. Can you recommend placement and qty of lights? There are no windows or exterior doors other than the garage door.

In another of your post you recommend the following. Is this what you would recommend for this project? Thank so much for your help.

--22W LumeGen 4ft single end bypass tube

--Maxlite LSS2XT8USE4803 75303 2 Lamp T8 LED Tube Ready 4 ft Linear Utility Strip Light Fixture Pre-Wired

 

[JAG836]

Platonic, I'd like to echo what everyone else has said about how helpful you are . I just got my first garage (+house too I guess ) and I've learned a ton from the wealth of knowledge in the gj forums. I too would like to get a recommendation for my new space (new to me at least. It was built in 1936).

16.5' W x 19' D x 9' H. When the garage door is up, it is approx 12' from the back wall to the top edge of the garage. There is a roughly 3' x 4' south facing window on the right wall that you can sort of see behind the extension cords hanging on the shelf. The garage door has windows along the top of it.

I plan on swapping the location of the workbench with the left shelving unit. Rookie mistake putting them where they are now, as my car mostly blocks access to the work bench when it is parked in the garage.

I will be detailing my car in there, some basic car maintenance and some DIY level household projects.

 

[Platonic Solid]

Dang - Though the photobucket fix worked for firefox (link), INTMD8 must have deleted his pics from his account so they still don't show up.

 

[JAG836]

Dang - Though the photobucket fix worked for firefox (link), INTMD8 must have deleted his pics from his account so they still don't show up.

Hello! Would you mind taking a look at my layout question at your earliest convenience, please?

 

[rss]

Hello Platonic,

Great thread. It's really quite incredible what you've done for so many here. I've learned quite a bit already by perusing your threads.

I am building a 24x40' garage/shop, 10' walls, cathedral ceiling pitch 5:12. The ceiling material will be natural wood, the interior walls white drywall. Floor will be uncoated cement.There will be 5 large windows and as many as three skylights, so there there should be decent natural light. There will be two car bays, one of which will have a four post lift. Main planned use is car restoration and maintenance.

My target is 100 lumen/sq ft even illumination. i thought until recently that only fluorescent would be cost effective, but am happy to see that LED may be possible -- I am considering using the Diva light (8500 lumen). I figured 12 or 15 Diva lights should work (3 rows of 4 or 5 lights). I was hoping you could give me some guidance with placement for optimum coverage. Intuitively it seems like the "outside" rows of lights should be about 4' from the side walls. Is the ceiling near the side wall too low to use these lights (they would be ~11' off the floor near the walls)? Ridge beam at the apex of the ceiling will be 16", so maximum height at center of ceiling would be a bit under 14'.

I'm open to any suggestions.

TIA,
Scott

 

[Platonic Solid]

40x56x14 Lighting layout

40x56x14 Lighting layout for moserjj (linked to original thread)

Qty.20
Alphalite Slim Linear LED High Bay (Mfr link), 2 Foot, 110 Watt, 14410 lm, EHB2-110/850 (PDF link) $91.25 (Dist link)

​

Mean fc @ 30" = 106
Total Cost: $1825
Total Lumens: 288200
Total Load: 2200 W

 

[Platonic Solid]

To all of the posters I haven't been able to get to, please see post #931 in The Best Light Fixture Ever thread.

 

[Platonic Solid]

18 x 24 x 8.5

18 x 24 x 8.5 Layout for casmurbax (linked to original thread)

​

Here's the PDF report: casmurbax-1.pdf
(Just ignore that the report says James lamps. I edited the attributes of the IES file to simulate the Lumengen tubes.)

12 housings + 24 LED tubes:

*********************************************
Best bang for the buck LED bypass 4ft 2-lamp strip light as of 8/25/2017:

22W LumeGen 4ft single end bypass tube
2640 Lumen
120° Beam Angle
$6.99 ea.
Free Shipping over $25

Maxlite LSS2XT8USE4803 75303 2 Lamp T8 LED Tube Ready 4 ft Linear Utility Strip Light Fixture Pre-Wired [Min Qty: 10]
$15.96 ea. x 10 = $159.60 (Free shipping over $95)

coupon "10offshine" to get $10 off

*********************************************

 

[OH_Varmntr]

Re: 40x56x14 Lighting layout

40x56x14 Lighting layout for moserjj (linked to original thread)

Qty.20
Alphalite Slim Linear LED High Bay (Mfr link), 2 Foot, 110 Watt, 14410 lm, EHB2-110/850 (PDF link) $91.25 (Dist link)

​

Mean fc @ 30" = 106
Total Cost: $1825
Total Lumens: 288200
Total Load: 2200 W

Found the link to this post from another thread. I'm building a 48x64x14 and went with the lights recommended in this post. Thanks!

 

[caviness]

i have a 40 x 38wide and 16ft ceiling and need light layout please shop is built and ready for wiring i will be putting up plywood on ceiling and wall painted eggshell white and the floor is getting that rocksolid stuff in the silver metallic it has 1 12wx14h door 6ft from left then another door over from that one 9wx8h this door is 2ft from right wall and going to be walk in door between them probably 36 or 38in also the doors will be the ones you push up not roll up. also have 2 more 9wx8h doors on each side wall 5ft from back wall. i also have big snapon box and 3 more tool boxes on back wall and will be tables on both sides of toolboxes that will be the only tables. i was looking at moserjj one you figured for him in led i was thinking diva light 2ft ones on a 4x4 but i need it right i do big truck work some and cars to but mostley car hotrod stuff and they wont be cars inside all the time

 

[caviness]

this was for platonic solid if you can find time this thread is awsum you are the man on this light stuff i read the whole thread wish i would have found this site earlier

 

[revamped]

i have a 40 x 38wide and 16ft ceiling and need light layout please shop is built and ready for wiring i will be putting up plywood on ceiling and wall painted eggshell white and the floor is getting that rocksolid stuff in the silver metallic it has 1 12wx14h door 6ft from left then another door over from that one 9wx8h this door is 2ft from right wall and going to be walk in door between them probably 36 or 38in also the doors will be the ones you push up not roll up. also have 2 more 9wx8h doors on each side wall 5ft from back wall. i also have big snapon box and 3 more tool boxes on back wall and will be tables on both sides of toolboxes that will be the only tables. i was looking at moserjj one you figured for him in led i was thinking diva light 2ft ones on a 4x4 but i need it right i do big truck work some and cars to but mostley car hotrod stuff and they wont be cars inside all the time

Your project is almost exactly what I built minus the loft space. I arranged the lights you are thinking about to not interfere with the doors and I used a high lift kit on the shorter door.

Lots of others answered several questions about LED high bay lighting also...

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=337137

 

[caviness]

i dont have the doors installed yet right now got sliding barn type doors but i figure the 8ft doors wouldnt really interfere with the lights and the 14ft door i could have installed where it go pass the light. the lights i was thinking 4x4 layout with diva light 2ft 19300lumen or will that be to much ?

 

[caviness]

ok i think the james light 165 watt will work for me in the 5000k light i read your thread revamped thanks but im still not sure on layout but im thinking 4x4 for sure i like to be in 100 to 120 range at 30in

 

[revamped]

ok i think the james light 165 watt will work for me in the 5000k light i read your thread revamped thanks but im still not sure on layout but im thinking 4x4 for sure i like to be in 100 to 120 range at 30in

I mounted one on each side of the doors, one in the middle for the front of the shop. The other 3 in a L configuration due to the loft having its own 3000K lighting. I tested the 5000K but it was bright and a little harsh for showroom and entertaining. I kept that above the engine bay and used 4000K for the rest. All on a Cooper switch 1200W 10A with 0-10V dimming. I am very very happy with the results and calculations. I have not used a meter but I guarantee that Radix nailed it when he did the layout calculations because I have more than enough light and can dim down to 10% if I need to. My ceilings are 17ft so they are hanging down about 16ft and only having to place 6 luminaires made wiring a snap. Those 165's are ~21,000 lumen each. I only have scallops on the walls where I mounted too close to fit between the doors and walls, with the doors open, they still produce amazing lighting and reflectance reduces the shadows from the doors. I wouldn't change a thing!

 

[AuroraSC]

Platonic - I'm getting ready to order parts soon as my building will finally start later this week. I'm planning to use the dual 4ft 1000bulb fixtures with the lightup bulbs. I understand that this lighting output isn't quite as much as you might recommend, but it seems like it might be a good compromise.

Would you tend to agree that this will still be a satisfactory amount of light for general automotive tasks? I've also considered 30 fixtures which seemed to bump up the fc to closer to 50. If I need additional work lighting in areas, this could be added later.

As far as layout goes, I'm planning to attach the fixtures to the trusses. This would seem to give a nice even amount of light, but correct me if I'm incorrect.

40x60x14 open ceiling pole barn with insulation on roof and walls

 

[bruincounselor]

To all of the posters I haven't been able to get to, please see post #931 in The Best Light Fixture Ever thread.

Should that post be added to #1 in this thread too?

PS - I've found your work to be very helpful in my own planning. I hope the check back in a month or two to say how great my lighting solution is working.

THANK YOU!

 

[Platonic Solid]

AuroraSC - 14ft is too high for that fixture. Consider changing to Alphalite Slim Linear LED High Bay, 2 Foot, 14410 lumen, 110 Watt, $91.25 ea. (link) or drop them down to 10ft.

bruincounselor - Good idea. Done.

 

[AuroraSC]

AuroraSC - 14ft is too high for that fixture. Consider changing to Alphalite Slim Linear LED High Bay, 2 Foot, 14410 lumen, 110 Watt, $91.25 ea. (link) or drop them down to 10ft.

bruincounselor - Good idea. Done.

It will actually be closer to 13' ceiling to floor after concrete and truss height are considered. I don't mind looking at other fixtures, but $80/ea more isn't a budgetary possibly.

 

[bullnerd]

Hmmm.. after looking at Auroras Visual tool, I may be missing something.

He doesn't have illuminance tab filled in on the left, but it says 43 on the top right?

PS mentioned using 100 in his explanation of the software. I used 90 and ended up with 24 lights also, but my shop is only 29x39. (if I use 100 it places a row down the middle where my heater will be)

 

[AuroraSC]

Hmmm.. after looking at Auroras Visual tool, I may be missing something.

He doesn't have illuminance tab filled in on the left, but it says 43 on the top right?

PS mentioned using 100 in his explanation of the software. I used 90 and ended up with 24 lights also, but my shop is only 29x39. (if I use 100 it places a row down the middle where my heater will be)

Here is a link to the tool. I found it accidentally on the first page of the fixture thread.

http://www.visual-3d.com/tools/interior/default.aspx?id=14782

I gave it row and column constaints instead of an fc target. You can use either one to drive the results.