Lighting recommendation

[Kevin54]

I'm using 100watt (equivalent) daylight CFL's (1600 Lumens, 6500K with a life of 8000hours). When I originally built my shop (about 15 years ago), I installed 100watt incandesent bulbs. About 10 years ago, I began replacing the incadesents with the CFL's. Would it be/should I replace the CFL's with a replacement LED bulbs?... If I'm stepping on toes (highjacking) here, feel free to delete this post. ...Oh, my shop is 24ft. x 40ft. with 10ft ceiling and a 6ft. by 20ft. bump out with a 8ft. ceiling.

Doug

No need to have the post deleted, and you sure aren't hijacking. I've learned a lot from the input and questions that have been asked in this thread from everyone.

Platonic Solid,
To answer your questions. 1) two 60watt (equivalent) bulbs in the rear bump out and twenty eight 100watt (equivalent) bulbs in the main shop area, all CFL's. ...2) the layout has been that way for about 15 years, and I'm quite used to it that way. That said, I'd be willing to make SOME (as in maybe minor) changes if it meant better all around lighting. ...3) lumen output? I never even thought about that with the incandescent, and when I heard about the incandescent going bye-bye, I began installing the equivalent CFL's. ...4) lamp life wasn't/isn't too bad IMHO. At this time, I'm seeing more bulb burnout now than I did before. ...5) warm-up time doesn't seem to take long at all. After all these years I may be just used ti it. ...6) electricity usage is of more concern when running the AC! My dad used to say,"if you have to ask how much it will cost, you can't afford it! LOL! ... The only problem I have with my lighting is the bright slightly blue tint. After doing sheet metal layout for a period of time, I find I start squinting my eyes! I hope this helps! ...Oh, maybe I should add that in six months I'll, be seventy years old and all my lighting problems may be my age! LOL!

Doug

When I was working, our shop got on a big kick about energy savings, and being in an older shop, we still had a lot of ceiling mounted porcelain fixtures. We went from incandescent bulbs to CFL's for the energy savings we would get. BUT.....we were losing money big time because the lamps would go bad. The CFL's get rather hot, not only the base of the lamp, but the lamp itself. Inside the base is a circuit board. I believe that mounting the CFL's upside down in the fixtures created enough heat to damage the circuit board components. I also noticed on some that the silicone used to secure the lamp to the base, would actually get hot enough to let the lamp come loose in the base. This never happened when a CFL was mounted in something like a table lamp where the CFL was in the upward position. But when it is mounted upside down, we were seeing high failure rates.

Along the same lines of the CFL failures.......when we switched over to more energy efficient fluorescent lights, the company that did the changeover used the existing fluorescent light fixtures, but added in all new energy efficient ballast. We were starting to experience high failure rates of the ballast. Our toolroom was in a basement. Back when the building was build, there were concrete beams used for our ceiling and upstairs floor. This created a gridwork where our fluorescents were mounted up in. I think the excess heat inside of the pockets cause premature failure of the ballast. The reason I say that is that where we had a flat ceiling in an open area, those fluorescent fixtures never failed.

Anyways......for anyone on here that has a question, hijack away. I'm learning more now than I ever knew about lighting, and thanks to all for your input.

 

[LutzTD]

I'm in the same analysis for my build (LED vs T8), and my decision is largely being influenced by my desire to have blazing light levels but be able to dim them when I don't need as much light. I'm assuming that the LED strip lights can be placed on a dimmer but don't see that discussed much. I know fluorescent cant.

I'm surprised more people don't consider that distinction when making their choice unless you cant dim the LED lights mentioned above.

from my search on LEDs, they specify if they can be dimmed, which says if it doesnt say, likely they cannot.

I work for a contract manufacturer. I am seeing some pretty cool things on the horizon for LEDs due to their low power and flexibilty. Whole building lighting can go through small low voltage controls that can have logic for on off as well as duty cycle driving of the LEDs. this is very efficient, they will basically turn the LED on and off at a frequency you cant see, but the duty cycle can be tuned to the amount of light allowing the LED to be on 50% of the time or 25% of the time or whatever is most efficient for the space. You cant see it, but it will use much less power.

 

[Platonic Solid]

I'm in the same analysis for my build (LED vs T8), and my decision is largely being influenced by my desire to have blazing light levels but be able to dim them when I don't need as much light. I'm assuming that the LED strip lights can be placed on a dimmer but don't see that discussed much. I know fluorescent cant.

I'm surprised more people don't consider that distinction when making their choice unless you cant dim the LED lights mentioned above.

You can dim typical F32T8 and F54T5HO fluorescents as long as you have a dimming ballast. The specific LED bypass James lamp previously linked is not dimmable, however these lamps can be purchased with external drivers that are dimmable. I don't see them offered on shineretrofits website though. Thus, if you want it, I'm sure they will get it for you.

I believe the ballast compatible LED tubes are all dimmable as long as the fluorescent ballast is a dimming ballast. This is not a cost effective dimming solution for new construction.

 

[barnee]

You can dim typical F32T8 and F54T5HO fluorescents as long as you have a dimming ballast. The specific LED bypass James lamp previously linked is not dimmable, however these lamps can be purchased with external drivers that are dimmable. I don't see them offered on shineretrofits website though. Thus, if you want it, I'm sure they will get it for you.

I believe the ballast compatible LED tubes are all dimmable as long as the fluorescent ballast is a dimming ballast. This is not a cost effective dimming solution for new construction.

Thanks for the info. May have to return to my "dimming through separate light circuits".

 

[Platonic Solid]

Platonic Solid,
To answer your questions. 1) two 60watt (equivalent) bulbs in the rear bump out and twenty eight 100watt (equivalent) bulbs in the main shop area, all CFL's. ...2) the layout has been that way for about 15 years, and I'm quite used to it that way. That said, I'd be willing to make SOME (as in maybe minor) changes if it meant better all around lighting. ...3) lumen output? I never even thought about that with the incandescent, and when I heard about the incandescent going bye-bye, I began installing the equivalent CFL's. ...4) lamp life wasn't/isn't too bad IMHO. At this time, I'm seeing more bulb burnout now than I did before. ...5) warm-up time doesn't seem to take long at all. After all these years I may be just used ti it. ...6) electricity usage is of more concern when running the AC! My dad used to say,"if you have to ask how much it will cost, you can't afford it! LOL! ... The only problem I have with my lighting is the bright slightly blue tint. After doing sheet metal layout for a period of time, I find I start squinting my eyes! I hope this helps! ...Oh, maybe I should add that in six months I'll, be seventy years old and all my lighting problems may be my age! LOL!

Doug

Would installing 4ft hanging plug-in shop lights be considered a "minor change"?

 

[oldtinsmith]

Platonic Solid, I have actually thought of possibly doing just that! The lighting layout in my shop is very close to the "suggested fixture layout 36' x 27.5" x 12' ceiling...4-28-2015 @ 5:54 PM" in your "light fixture layout collection". In my shop, I have 4 rows of 5 porcelain light fixtures (the vertical rows in your layout) in each row. In the first bay (left in your layout) I have 2 fixtures at the front and 2 fixtures at the back (horizontal in your layout). The second (center) bay and the third (right in your layout) bay have one fixture front and one fixture back each one. ...My shop is 40' x 24' x 10' ceiling except the center bay has a 12' ceiling for a future hoist. ... Would you suggest the same lighting (Lumens and Kelvin as I have now?

Doug

 

[NUTTSGT]

No need to have the post deleted, and you sure aren't hijacking. I've learned a lot from the input and questions that have been asked in this thread from everyone.



When I was working, our shop got on a big kick about energy savings, and being in an older shop, we still had a lot of ceiling mounted porcelain fixtures. We went from incandescent bulbs to CFL's for the energy savings we would get. BUT.....we were losing money big time because the lamps would go bad. The CFL's get rather hot, not only the base of the lamp, but the lamp itself. Inside the base is a circuit board. I believe that mounting the CFL's upside down in the fixtures created enough heat to damage the circuit board components. I also noticed on some that the silicone used to secure the lamp to the base, would actually get hot enough to let the lamp come loose in the base. This never happened when a CFL was mounted in something like a table lamp where the CFL was in the upward position. But when it is mounted upside down, we were seeing high failure rates.

Along the same lines of the CFL failures.......when we switched over to more energy efficient fluorescent lights, the company that did the changeover used the existing fluorescent light fixtures, but added in all new energy efficient ballast. We were starting to experience high failure rates of the ballast. Our toolroom was in a basement. Back when the building was build, there were concrete beams used for our ceiling and upstairs floor. This created a gridwork where our fluorescents were mounted up in. I think the excess heat inside of the pockets cause premature failure of the ballast. The reason I say that is that where we had a flat ceiling in an open area, those fluorescent fixtures never failed.

Anyways......for anyone on here that has a question, hijack away. I'm learning more now than I ever knew about lighting, and thanks to all for your input.

Kevin, we have seen the same thing and been on a few calls about lights flickering/hot smells with the CFL mounted "bulb down."


As far as mounting the fluorescents, I used small blocks between the fixture and ceiling to allow for air circulation to keep the ballast from getting hot. We had some 8' T12 HO fixtures at the FD and they would go off and on when they got hot. IIRC, the fixtures came with stand offs to mount them and create a gap for ballast cooling. The guy installing them didn't use them, needless to say, we have all T5 fixtures now.

 

[cybrdyke]

I believe the ballast compatible LED tubes are all dimmable as long as the fluorescent ballast is a dimming ballast. This is not a cost effective dimming solution for new construction.

Actually, very few of the ballast-ready tubes are dimmable. If they are, it will be very specifically stated as such.
The Philips 15w LED tube is dimmable, but the others that they make are not.
Cree used to make theirs dimmable, but I honestly dont know if it still is being made.
As the manufacturers start to try to make these more affordable, features like dimming are getting dumped. There are alot of new generation LED screw-in lamps from major manufacturers coming out that are not dimmable, too.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Would installing 4ft hanging plug-in shop lights be considered a "minor change"?

Yes !

If you have the "classic" bare bulb Edison socket ceiling fixture, you can easily swap it out for a duplex outlet octagon box cover.

 

[vonhef]

Excellent! Please post pics of the housing when you get them.

Here are the photos of the light fixtures & bulbs:

Of the 30 fixtures I ordered, I still have two more to mount... so no picture of them working yet. I did see where you edited the post where they started building them with aluminum because there were problems with the plastic housing bulbs overheating?

Mine are plastic. I wonder if they would exchange them?

They do put out alot of light, so am very happy with the performance.

 

[Platonic Solid]

Of the 30 fixtures I ordered, I still have two more to mount... so no picture of them working yet. I did see where you edited the post where they started building them with aluminum because there were problems with the plastic housing bulbs overheating?

Mine are plastic. I wonder if they would exchange them?

They do put out alot of light, so am very happy with the performance.

Sweet! You got the 22W Lamps. The plastic part would be the housing of the lamp extrusion. Unless they painted the plastic housing silver to make it look like an aluminum extrusion the lamps you have there are the aluminum version. You were smart to order when you did. That was at the $12.99 ea. price right? Those exact lamps are now selling for $27.50 ea. Looking at the wiring diagram on the bulb, looks like they changed their wiring to be single ended. Mine are all hot one end and neutral the other (but that was over a year ago).

 

[vonhef]

Sweet! You got the 22W Lamps. The plastic part would be the housing of the lamp extrusion. Unless they painted the plastic housing silver to make it look like an aluminum extrusion the lamps you have there are the aluminum version. You were smart to order when you did. That was at the $12.99 ea. price right? Those exact lamps are now selling for $27.50 ea. Looking at the wiring diagram on the bulb, looks like they changed their wiring to be single ended. Mine are all hot one end and neutral the other (but that was over a year ago).

I checked and you are correct, they do have an aluminum housing!!!

They do power on one end, but so did the fixtures I purchased, so that must be the new standard?

I did pay 12.99 each I really appreciate you sharing that link, because the price was too good to not take advantage of.

 

[vonhef]

Here are some photos of the installed lights, minus the final two fixtures to be wired up:

 

[Platonic Solid]

Here are some photos of the installed lights, minus the final two fixtures to be wired up:

Man, you don't mess around. You ordered these lamps and housings on 9/22 and by 11/4 you're already done with the install. End result = nicely lit space that's easy on the eyes at a bargain price. Hats off to you Hef - Well done.

 

[Mika401uba]

Vonhef what spacing between the 4 row of lights did you use?

 

[vonhef]

Vonhef what spacing between the 4 row of lights did you use?

Every row of c purlin is 3 foot apart, so the spacing for each row of lights is 6 feet.

 

[Mika401uba]

Awesome that gives me some guidance as to what spacing to put mine, have exact same light/base combo.

 

[vonhef]

Awesome that gives me some guidance as to what spacing to put mine, have exact same light/base combo.

Cool! Let us know how it turns out.

 

[bedn0009]

All,

What is the best "today" option for a 4' fixture? I just built a 32 x 28 x 8 wood shop.

It seems like LED is getting more affordable? I need to purchase approx 20 fixtures this month, and I've seen different housing/ballast configurations. Anyone point me in the right direction?

Thank you.

 

[smalltown]

Kind of confused about the "aluminum extrusion" is that something on the light fixture or the white colored end of the light itself?

Just took a look at the shinerretrofits.com site, and understand that it's the lamp end that has the aluminum.

 

[vonhef]

Kind of confused about the "aluminum extrusion" is that something on the light fixture or the white colored end of the light itself?

Just took a look at the shinerretrofits.com site, and understand that it's the lamp end that has the aluminum.

The aluminum extrusion is on the back side of the bulb. Notice on the picture in my previous post the decal with the specifications is stuck on grey colored aluminum.


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[smalltown]

Thanks vonhef so the back of the lamp housing might be aluminum in a u shape and the other side frosted plastic?

Your installation look very good: No wanting for illumination there!
Thank God for Platonic

 

[Mika401uba]

Cool! Let us know how it turns out.

Finally got the lights put up, same combo as you. All I say is wholly **** its bright! Can't even look at the ceiling its so bright! Love it thank you all for the recommendation.

 

[motofool33]

Here are some photos of the installed lights, minus the final two fixtures to be wired up:

do you have any pics of how you mounted those fixtures to the rafters?
and what wiring you used to run to them?

im doing my research to how im going to put them up in my garage.

 

[Platonic Solid]

motofool33 - looks to me like he screwed them directly to the purlins, probably with TEKs screws.

 

[Platonic Solid]

Mika401uba - Sweet! Looks good. No drywall on the ceiling?

 

[vonhef]

do you have any pics of how you mounted those fixtures to the rafters?

and what wiring you used to run to them?



im doing my research to how im going to put them up in my garage.

motofool33 - looks to me like he screwed them directly to the purlins, probably with TEKs screws.

Platonic is correct, I screwed them directly to the c-purlin using self tapping metal screws.

I used 12 gauge solid core wire in the conduit and used the 12-2 MC (Metal Clad) cable from the junction box to the light fixtures.

Sorry... No photos of that


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[vonhef]

Finally got the lights put up, same combo as you. All I say is wholly **** its bright! Can't even look at the ceiling its so bright! Love it thank you all for the recommendation.

Dude.... that is sweet... good job! I also like the Jeep

 

[Mika401uba]

Mika401uba - Sweet! Looks good. No drywall on the ceiling?

Long story, basically wanted to have the wiring done before blowing in the insulation and want to have the insulation in before doing the ceiling drywall. Since the same guy is also doing mudding the walls been in a sort of chicken & egg situation. Don't know why but had the worst luck getting an electrician to come do the work. Been frustrating not being able to get all my stuff in the garage. Most of it is still stashed at friends houses.