Looking for Recommendations for a Plasma Cutter

[cannuck]

Why bother buying quality anything with that logic? Who cares about buying a nice screwdriver, when you can buy a 10 pack of screwdrivers from HF? If you break one, what does it matter? Why bother with DeWalt and Milwaukee tools when a HF drill will make a hole in wood just fine?

I can hardly believe I am going to defend cheap tools, ESPECIALLY on this of all websites....but: Sadly, a lot of people really don't need a decent tool and if they don't take the risk bottom feeding they would have (or could not afford) anything at all. For the vast majority of casual users, something from HF will do what they need. ****, I have some of those cheap HF/CTC/PA tools as that is what I buy on the road and leave in my toolbox that travelled with me and sat unprotected in client's shop. Said cheap=*** tools now reside at farm where they are quite likely to get lost or left on a piece of equipment. They have their place.

Then there are the middle-of-the-range tools from Milwaukee and DeWalt. Hardly anything near a high quality tool, but in field work I have seen them suffer incredible abuse at the hands of trades and people reaching well outside of their skill level. I watched my former "day job" client experiment with really expensive portable tools but now pretty much universal red stuff at 30 or so branches around the continent. So, IMHO, that mid range of tools at the top of hobbyist but bottom of pro range can be perfectly acceptable.

Then there is the stunningly expensive stuff. Most of my welding equipment is and will continue to be of that category - but for hobbyists is that really needed? When I buy my next plasma unit, I may well not go with another Hypertherm - decision off in the future.

What I have learned working with an ECU designer/manufacturer is that while all of those copycat designs of boards used on things such as plasma cutters may have the same functional spec from one to another, the difference is that you can buy ultra high risk low buck ****, somewhat safer mid stream with some testing and selectivity or top dollar fully tested and verified components from off the end of the same production line. So, yes, there is a HUGE difference in both cost and probable reliability as you go up market. But reality is a casual user if you test during replacement period and don't overload will possibly get by for a lifetime with a $300 30A unit..

So, I guess what I am saying is that if you go in eyes wide open, a cheap cutter might be a reasonable and manageable risk for some to take. Also: the middle ground (Prime Weld) can be as useful and reliable as Milwaukee and deWalt power tools. Hypertherm stuff may make one feel better, but if it means not having another mid stream tool that the double price wiped out, is it a good way to manage limited resources?

 

[zendriver]

Why bother buying quality anything with that logic? Who cares about buying a nice screwdriver, when you can buy a 10 pack of screwdrivers from HF? If you break one, what does it matter? Why bother with DeWalt and Milwaukee tools when a HF drill will make a hole in wood just fine?

I've used HF screwdrivers for years and have never broke a tip or handle.

Maybe they are like everything else, that just because they are inexpensive, people believe they just have to be of low quality.

People forget (or refuse to acknowledge) price means nothing concerning Chinese products, because manufacturing and R&D costs are hugely Government subsidized.

Might be why a 100" HDTV costs $500.

 

[babyseal]

Might be why a 100" HDTV costs $500.

And when it craps out, you toss it and buy another. Which is going to have a better quality display and more options, in spite of being "cheap". If you even wait for it to **** out. Foolish to spend big bucks on a HDTV that's going to be noticeably/functionally obsolete in a year or so.

Heck, I need to clear out my sheds. Bet there's at least a dozen old TVs and computer monitors out there, work just fine, but can't even give them away...just replaced my perfectly good computer monitor with a 55" game ready HDTV that cost around $300. Awesome! No reading glasses required.

 

[dscheidt]

Until you draw the short-straw with your cheap $300 unit, and it blows up.

Why bother buying quality anything with that logic?

Dude, chill. Consider the use. What does someone who uses the machine 10 hours a year get from spending 5 or 10 times as much, besides a much lighter wallet? It's going to do everything they need, and will last at least enough to make it worth while.

The failure of these things are all electronic, and exhibit the classic bathtub curve of failures -- moderately high infant mortality, period of low failure rate, then a rise at the end. Assuming it's used enough when it's first acquired, so the infant mortality can get sorted out while it's returnable, it's going to last most of the people considering it forever. Someone who uses it commercially will kill it, sure. But it will take them long enough to make enough to justify a better one, or to decide that replacing it every couple years is acceptable. There are lots of shops that can use a plasma enough that they can justify a few hundred on one, but not a few thousand. Think the guy restoring a car as a hobby, the farm shop, building maintenance shops, etc.

 

[finn]

Dude, chill. Consider the use. What does someone who uses the machine 10 hours a year get from spending 5 or 10 times as much, besides a much lighter wallet? It's going to do everything they need, and will last at least enough to make it worth while.

The failure of these things are all electronic, and exhibit the classic bathtub curve of failures -- moderately high infant mortality, period of low failure rate, then a rise at the end. Assuming it's used enough when it's first acquired, so the infant mortality can get sorted out while it's returnable, it's going to last most of the people considering it forever. Someone who uses it commercially will kill it, sure. But it will take them long enough to make enough to justify a better one, or to decide that replacing it every couple years is acceptable. There are lots of shops that can use a plasma enough that they can justify a few hundred on one, but not a few thousand. Think the guy restoring a car as a hobby, the farm shop, building maintenance shops, etc.

And some, like the Primeweld, have a three year warranty with free shipping both ways.

The world has changed in welding equipment, just like the rest of the electronics world.

 

[Mallen]

With the recent news of Sterrett being sold to a Investment firm you'll need to ask yourself

"am I going to ***** if Hypertherm ends up like Sterrett and other US manufactures"

that being said, Hypertherm has positioned themselves as a Pro / Industrial / Gov only option. Prohibitively expensive for any other consumer. Especially when considering how good and cheap the competition has become.
They can't compete at the low end so it's premium or nothing.

If they (any US mfg producing at extreme end of the price and quality spectrum) feels they are appropriately positioned for the market they are targeting than the choice should be fairly easy on what you as the consumer should be purchasing.

That's a good point. They are not even targeting you as a customer. Not knocking them for it,vas you pointed out, thats the market segment they feel they need to be in to survive as a company. But it's something to keep in mind.

 

[Mallen]

I just checked. The Primeweld Cut 60 is $699 less a $25 coupon. The equivalent Miller 685 is $4300 less a $200 rebate at Bakers gas.

You can buy six Primeweld machines for the price of one Miller, and customers love them.

I have a Primeweld tig machine, and a Miller Multimatic welder. Both are satisfactory for my use. I also have a couple of HTP machines.

I would buy any one of those brands again without hesitation and don’t really see what fast food has to do with buying welding equipment, so I don’t see how that fits into the decision. To me it’s purely an economic decision. Does the Miller at 7x the cost of the Primeweld bring any utility to me . I think not. Nor can I comment on the $200 Amazon machines, but at the price of two lottery tickets per week, or a Starbucks on the way to work every morning, they may very well be worth a shot.

Would I say the same thing if I had 30 plasma cutters in a production facility? Probably not, but as a hobbiest, I probably put fewer hours on the machine in a year than a production machine puts on in a week.

Again, I maintain that the outmoded buy once mantra is a trite phrase in these situations. It’s real easy to spend other people’s money, isn’t it?

Honestly, how many of these people REALLY practice what they preach. Some are likely professionals that buy tools using that logic for professional purposes. And for those purposes, that logic is totally legit. But clearly they are not buying tools for a hone shop like that. Either they have access to those tools at home as well, or they don't "do what they do at work at home" and don't do any home projects.

Others just talk a big game. Because really, the whole idea that for every tool I. Your hobby shop, you should save up for a very expensive professional grade tool, is absurd. It doesn't work that way. I buy what I need. Some told that you use every day, it might be worth it for. Like a 3/8 ratchet. (Although really, the cheap ratchets have become pretty good lately) But if you save up for two or four years for that 4000 dollar tool0,you will have an empty garage for four years. With NO tools at all. While you save all your money for a shiny new toy.

But let's say you have a garage full of tools already, and you decide you need that 4000 dollar plasma cutter. So should you cut out fast food and everything else you can and save up for 2 or 4 years? Absolutely not. Think about it. If you can get by without it for 2 to 4 years while you save up for it, you don't need it. If you REALLY needed it you would have bought whatever you could afford to get the work done. But you got it done without it. You used an angle grinder and an Oxyfuel torch and a jig saw, and whatever else made sense. So here you are, at the end of 4 years with 4000 dollars in your pocket. Keep the money. Or spend it on something you actually NEED. Because you just do t really need one.

 

[Jswain]

Honestly, how many of these people REALLY practice what they preach. Some are likely professionals that buy tools using that logic for professional purposes. And for those purposes, that logic is totally legit. But clearly they are not buying tools for a hone shop like that. Either they have access to those tools at home as well, or they don't "do what they do at work at home" and don't do any home projects.

Others just talk a big game. Because really, the whole idea that for every tool I. Your hobby shop, you should save up for a very expensive professional grade tool, is absurd. It doesn't work that way. I buy what I need. Some told that you use every day, it might be worth it for. Like a 3/8 ratchet. (Although really, the cheap ratchets have become pretty good lately) But if you save up for two or four years for that 4000 dollar tool0,you will have an empty garage for four years. With NO tools at all. While you save all your money for a shiny new toy.

But let's say you have a garage full of tools already, and you decide you need that 4000 dollar plasma cutter. So should you cut out fast food and everything else you can and save up for 2 or 4 years? Absolutely not. Think about it. If you can get by without it for 2 to 4 years while you save up for it, you don't need it. If you REALLY needed it you would have bought whatever you could afford to get the work done. But you got it done without it. You used an angle grinder and an Oxyfuel torch and a jig saw, and whatever else made sense. So here you are, at the end of 4 years with 4000 dollars in your pocket. Keep the money. Or spend it on something you actually NEED. Because you just do t really need one.

I think it makes it easier when you buy your home for $30k and resell it for $500k. Maybe multiple times. Maybe it makes it so easy you lose touch on the reality part of it for the rest of the population.

Maybe some of it is guys who own businesses and forget that you don't need commercial grade everything to weld up a fire pit or a bumper for your old jeep etc. exhaust on the 04 civic. But if you want to take all the advice here on buying tools you better be a millionaire, at least.

 

[babyseal]

Because you just do t really need one.

Exactly and precisely the point. As hobbyists, few of us actually NEED a plasma cutter. We WANT a plasma cutter. Ain't nothing a plasma cutter does we can't do the hard way...for little or no cost. Same as it ever was.

So it goes down to "How much are you personally willing and/or able to spend?". Now, I enjoy buying and fondling expensive tools as much as the next guy. But consumer electronics that'll be obsolete and/or available much cheaper/better in a year or two ain't something I'm going to waste a bunch of money on.

 

[driftpin]

What I have learned working with an ECU designer/manufacturer is that while all of those copycat designs of boards used on things such as plasma cutters may have the same functional spec from one to another, the difference is that you can buy ultra high risk low buck ****, somewhat safer mid stream with some testing and selectivity or top dollar fully tested and verified components from off the end of the same production line. So, yes, there is a HUGE difference in both cost and probable reliability as you go up market. But reality is a casual user if you test during replacement period and don't overload will possibly get by for a lifetime with a $300 30A unit..

I recall from a statistics class in graduate school, that product reliability testing starts out with everything on the same production line. Everything is tested, and where they fall in their performance determines if it's wrapped/boxed in an 'economy' line package, or a 'value-line' package, a 'standard' line package, or a 'premium' line package.

Another example was some sports equipment, I don't recall if it was tennis balls or golf balls, but the method of testing was to bounce them, and the ones that fell into the lowest hopper were the 'value' but inexpensive price ones, while the ones that made it into the highest hopper during the bounce test were the 'premium-priced' ones.

I'm happy with a decent product which I can afford, which does the work I need it to do. I have a few things more-expensive when new, which I bought used, like:

• a Powermatic Model 66 cabinet saw. I bought it from a co-worker who besides being a fire/rescue guy w/me, was a graduate architect and a FL G.C.
• a Saylor-Beall 705 80 gallon air compressor, with a new 5 HP Baldor motor, new switch and pressure regulator, all made in USA. My friend owns a compressor sales and service business. He gave me a helluva deal.
• a Delta Rockwell metal & wood multiple variable-speed bandsaw, from a guy who had two and I got the one he was willing to sell.
• a Sears Craftsman 240V 12" RAS, from a NJ guy who brought it to FL for a job, and was selling it to leave.
• a Porter-Cable portable bandsaw from a fire/rescue co-worker who had two and needed to keep only one.
• a Delta Rockwell 8" cabinet saw, a Unisaw Junior, from a Miami bottling company which was sold, and the buyers held a sale.
• a Skil worm-drive 8" saw bought at a used tool counter.
• oxy-acetylene tanks and a 240V 30 gallon portable horizontal compressor from a friend who was leaving FL to return North.

There were many other pieces, Those are a few I can list at the moment. I'm on the side of buying something like the plasma cutter as a less-expensive piece, if you're not going to be using it all the time.

 

[Steve_P]

Exactly and precisely the point. As hobbyists, few of us actually NEED a plasma cutter. We WANT a plasma cutter. Ain't nothing a plasma cutter does we can't do the hard way...for little or no cost. Same as it ever was.

This is exactly it, and I said this in an earlier post, maybe on page one. Not counting a shear, I have pretty much every steel cutting method except for a plasma cutter. I can 110% get by without one and substitute other methods and invest a little more time to get to the same place- like I have for the last 30 years.

I can afford a $2k Hypertherm; but there is just no way I'm going to pay that for how much I'll use it, and how much benefit it will give me over all of my other existing tools. If the less expensive plasma cutter options didn't exist, I'd just go without- again, because I don't really need it. It's basically a "luxury" purchase, something I want, but don't really need.

 

[babyseal]

Not counting a shear,

I'm FAR more likely to invest that kind of money in a good quality/sized shear/brake/roller combo, than a plasma cutter. Far more bang for buck. A plasma cutter's a "nice to have", where a better/larger shear/brake/roller would greatly increase my capabilities and/or save me some serious money or some really pissy work doing it by hand. Chip pans for my mills, hot tanks for blueing/parkerizing, etc.

 

[cnc-me]

Capabilities are not the same. Research and look at the duty cycle for each. Yes they will both cut the same thickness plate but the cheaper ones have a very low duty cycle and will burn themselves out quickly if you go over it too often. If you just occasionally want to cut off a piece of angle iron the cheap ones are perfectly adequate but if you are slicing up large sheets of plate you want something with a much higher duty cycle.

It's all in the torch consumables Hypertherm's will out last all the rest. Torch quality is where a lot of the difference is.

 

[cnc-me]

The guy quoted 100% duty cycle...it won't do it, no way. Does everyone here actually trust the specs of these chinese plasma cutters? That was the point.

Always de-rate anything Chinese by at least 50%, or more, and maybe you won't be dis-appointed.
I got some Chinese solid state relays once that were rated for 40 amps, when I planned on only using them to 15 amps max.
Guess what they wouldn't even do 10A without getting hot, ended up using some old Potter & Brumfield's rated at 10 amps,
did the job with no problems at all, cool as a cucumber.

 

[finn]

Always de-rate anything Chinese by at least 50%, or more, and maybe you won't be dis-appointed.
I got some Chinese solid state relays once that were rated for 40 amps, when I planned on only using them to 15 amps max.
Guess what they wouldn't even do 10A without getting hot, ended up using some old Potter & Brumfield's rated at 10 amps,
did the job with no problems at all, cool as a cucumber.

Remind me that when I buy my next iPhone. Or my next quarter of a million dollar Caterpillar excavator with Chinese hydraulic valve bodies, or, for that matter, my next Milwaukee impact driver, wrench, or drill.

 

[Jswain]

Remind me that when I buy my next iPhone. Or my next quarter of a million dollar Caterpillar excavator with Chinese hydraulic valve bodies, or, for that matter, my next Milwaukee impact driver, wrench, or drill.

I still have yet to see anyone SHOW the benefits of the hypertherm vs less expensive unit for a home shop use it once a month guy...

A lot of talk, though.

 

[GeoBruin]

Question for you guys running the big 60 amp import plasmas. Why is the current draw so high for a given output current/voltage? Looking at the specs for the Primeweld Cut60, it looks like it draws 48.6 amps to make it's max 60 amp output (@ 104 volts). That's a big breaker! And that's not just to cut the max specified 3/4" thickness. It says it uses 60 amps down to 1/2" mild steel as well, albeit at a faster cut speed.

By contrast, the Hypertherm powermax 45xp only draws 32 amps to make it's max 45 amp output, and that's at 145 volts, meaning the Hypertherm is actually making more power. That seems consistent with the higher max rated cutting thickness as well which is 7/8".

That means you could use a 40 amp breaker with the hypertherm and have plenty of headroom, while a 50 amp breaker would just barely cut it for the Primeweld.

 

[emeraldcoupe]

Laugh if you want, don't care. I only have a need for a plasma occasionally so I got one off Amazon a couple years ago, under $200 , 120/240, works great and is still working. Consumables are cheap and plentiful. I use it mainly on sheet metal, but it has cut 1/4" plate without issue. Good enough for what I need

 

[babyseal]

Meanwhile, my $200 Amazon plasma cutter is still going strong...

 

[Jswain]

Meanwhile, my $200 Amazon plasma cutter is still going strong...

Same - just over 6 years now for $254 canuckadian dollhairs

 

[gmcgeo]

Same - just over 6 years now for $254 canuckadian dollhairs

Mine to, I have a cut-50 that's been going strong for 5 years. i think i paid 325 at the time

 

[emeraldcoupe]

i just bought the pilot arc version of the machine i have, paid $99 for it off amazon. works great.

 

[tak1313]

A few years ago, I got a used Hypertherm Powermax 45. Fired it up, tested it out on a 1/2 thick piece and it worked great. Picked up a bunch of supplies at the local AirGas store.

Haven't used it since...

 

[Mandres]

I'm in the Amazon camp too. Yeswelder or Lotos seem to be the most popular brands.

Look for pilot arc, enough amps for your maximum use case, and preferably a low frequency start so that you can build a cnc table for it later.

 

[gte718p]

Question for you guys running the big 60 amp import plasmas. Why is the current draw so high for a given output current/voltage? Looking at the specs for the Primeweld Cut60, it looks like it draws 48.6 amps to make it's max 60 amp output (@ 104 volts). That's a big breaker! And that's not just to cut the max specified 3/4" thickness. It says it uses 60 amps down to 1/2" mild steel as well, albeit at a faster cut speed.

By contrast, the Hypertherm powermax 45xp only draws 32 amps to make it's max 45 amp output, and that's at 145 volts, meaning the Hypertherm is actually making more power. That seems consistent with the higher max rated cutting thickness as well which is 7/8".

That means you could use a 40 amp breaker with the hypertherm and have plenty of headroom, while a 50 amp breaker would just barely cut it for the Primeweld.

Most likely because the Hypertherm is a better system. Its transformer and switching components are probably more efficient and it has better control scheme. I don't think anyone questions that the HT is a better unit. The question is it worth 10x the price for most people.

 

[tak1313]

When I got my used HT PowerMax 45 years ago (that I haven't used since testing it out) I only got it because it was a REALLY good deal. The guy selling it was selling it for short money because he thought there was something wrong. I took a chance and realized there was something wrong - he was using the wrong consumables so it would start then blow out in a few seconds.

Being DIY, I was more seriously considering a cheap Chinese one (don't remember which one at this point - I recall it had a "50" in the name) because it just didn't make economical sense. If I was a pro, or fabbed with a lot of metal/steel, it would have been a different calculation, but as is evidenced by NOT having used it real-use EVER, if I got the Chinese version, it would have be justified.

Other people's mistakes can be a goldmine. I have a few other things where someone sold it because they thought something was wrong. I got a Dewalt DW735 with Shelix head for way short money because the guy bought the planer and Shelix, but when he would run it, the pulley would come loose after a minute of running. I took a chance, and he sold me the planer, Shelix, and original head for $200. Come to find out, he had installed the pulley on the head backwards, so it was rubbing the casing, and the friction was causing the pulley to unwind off the thread.

 

[GeoBruin]

When I got my used HT PowerMax 45 years ago (that I haven't used since testing it out) I only got it because it was a REALLY good deal. The guy selling it was selling it for short money because he thought there was something wrong. I took a chance and realized there was something wrong - he was using the wrong consumables so it would start then blow out in a few seconds.

Being DIY, I was more seriously considering a cheap Chinese one (don't remember which one at this point - I recall it had a "50" in the name) because it just didn't make economical sense. If I was a pro, or fabbed with a lot of metal/steel, it would have been a different calculation, but as is evidenced by NOT having used it real-use EVER, if I got the Chinese version, it would have be justified.

Other people's mistakes can be a goldmine. I have a few other things where someone sold it because they thought something was wrong. I got a Dewalt DW735 with Shelix head for way short money because the guy bought the planer and Shelix, but when he would run it, the pulley would come loose after a minute of running. I took a chance, and he sold me the planer, Shelix, and original head for $200. Come to find out, he had installed the pulley on the head backwards, so it was rubbing the casing, and the friction was causing the pulley to unwind off the thread.

So I ended up buying the used Powermax 45xp. In part because of the electrical concern discussed above. I simply didn't have the headroom on my panel to size up the circuit to run one of the 50/60 amp rated import models, and I didn't want to size down as the cut capacity was reduced considerably. In short, I paid a premium for the efficiency. That said, I didn't pay "10x" for it. I bought a very gently used model with a small collection of hand consumables for $1,000.

I was riding high until I bought a cnc and had to buy a cnc wiring harness for it, then a machine torch because I didn't want to cut into my hypertherm hand torch, then machine torch consumables, etc. I ended up spending more on peripherals for the hypertherm than I did for the machine.

At the end of the day, I'm very happy with it. It has been a great handheld machine and cnc machine. But in this era of inexpensive machines running 100s of hours on home cnc setups, it's hard to argue the value proposition of the import machines.

 

[M.Brane]

I like my blue one.