Low-yield well solutions?

[racerboy]

The yield on my well at home is terrible. I don’t know the specific gph, but it’s never been great.

I had the well hydrofracked last June. That seemed to help, but we ran out of water again today. I did run a little sprinkler (the kind that you attach to a hose) for about an hour today and that seemed to do me in. My pressures tank can’t seem to get above 32 psi. I turned off the pump to give the pump a break and let the well recover. My neighbor (who has two wells - one dedicated to his lawn sprinkler system) waters his lawn every day. I think we share the same aquifer and that probably compounds the issue.

Since I’ve been fighting this battle for about 5 years, I’d really like to find a longer-term solution. I don’t think spending another $2000 for Hydrofracking again makes a lot of sense since I only got a year out of it.

I read about a Well Manager system that holds 200+ gallons of water in a holding tank. It seems like it is specifically designed for low-yield wells. Does anybody here have any experience with that system?

I’m guessing my other choice is to drill a new well. My current well is 500’ deep, so I’m not sure if they can go any deeper. Interestingly enough, my other neighbors (not the guy who has two wells) have very productive wells, have never had any water shortage issues, abs their wells are less than 1/2 the depth of mine. I don’t know how they pick a spot to drill a well, but it seems like they missed the mark big time. Anyway, if I did get another well drilled, would both wells provide water to the house? Would they somehow be linked?

Are there any other solutions I might consider (besides moving)?

Thanks!


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[Chapter21]

A water tank of some kind is common with low producing wells. If you can find what the max continuous flow is, even 1/2gpm is 720 gallons per day. I have a similar problem with my well, the pump will give me 13+ GPM, but, I can only take about 200 gallons per hour or it will run out. I'm waiting right now to turn the sprinkler back on.

If it's just for irrigation you could build something really cheap with some 250 gallon IBC tote(s) to hold water and another pump. I want to do this at my house strictly for outdoor usage. Use some kind of timer to fill the tank slowly over a 24 hour period.

 

[racerboy]

Thanks Chapter21
The real purpose would be to ensure there is adequate water for the house. I’m not that concerned with irrigation. I like your idea of a storage tank, which might be perfect for irrigation purposes because I wouldn’t need it in the winter (I live in north NJ). I did read about underground storage tanks to use to hold water for the house that sort of get trickle-filled. But those are not cheap and need some pretty extensive excavation.


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[Chapter21]

For household use you definitely need to be a little more "clean" about it, they often use black plastic tanks for this so no light can get inside to grow things. Maybe even inside a shed if it is not underground. Using a UV light for disinfecting would not be a bad idea.

One of my rental houses has a big bored well for this reason, the hole is big enough for a person to get into, like a hand dug well, even though it isn't that old. The extra space acts as a big tank underground, and the water trickles through the concrete walls. I'm betting it was very expensive!

 

[Jarwop]

You might check out https://privatewellclass.org/ I found very useful.

 

[justanengineer]

If you’re having well flow issues then I’d be dam careful running a garden hose, they’ll use ~10-15 gal/min. How old is the well? It’s not uncommon for them to slow down over time as minerals clog the well point, might be time for a new well.


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[larry_g]

My son had some problems and one solution was to put a low pressure switch on the pump that had a timer on it. If it detected low flow then it would shut off and wait some set time before starting the pump again. This well was feeding into a 1000 gal tank so the timer and the tank kept him in water till a second well could be drilled.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[jkeyser14]

A storage tank is going to be useless if your daily use still exceeds your aquifer's daily capacity. If I were you I would bite the bullet and drill a new well in hope of hitting a different aquifer.

 

[tez929rr]

Storage tanks are common around here and lots of people have Wells deeper than 500 feet. A good well guy should know the aquifer and what will work for you. I expect long term a new well or redrilling your existing well will be the best solution.

 

[NUTTSGT]

Ask your neighbors who drilled their wells. You might have better luck going with another driller if they differ from what you have used.

Options, cistern to catch rain water, use that for the interior of the home. Holding tank for the well to pump into as it can.

You can also haul your own water.

 

[dcg9381]

Has it always been low-yield (year round)? How deep is it? You'll always be limited by available water.

The simple solution is to use a tank. I don't know about the "well manager" system you mention - but it looks really expensive.

Here, we do simple float switches in a tank. Tank gets low, well turns on, turns off when tank is full. I've got a diagram around somewhere, but it's just 2 float switches set up in a flip/flop switch arrangement. For water pressure, a second pump is used from the tank out. Most of my neighbors have these, generally about 2000 gallons per tank.

You could also set it up so that the well pump is on a timer. You have it run, say 30 minutes per day, and have an "off switch" on a single float - so it's filling that tank as much as possible every day.

The other way to do it is setup that main pump with a dry run controller that auto-retries (many pump controllers have this) and use that to feed the tank.

I think your pressure problem is separate. Pumps are designed for specific pressure ranges and should provide that pressure (as long as water is available). I use Gould pumps exclusively as primary pumps - they're expensive but last a long time. Lots of other pump solutions.. And check out a stop cycle valve some time as an alternative to a big pressure tank.

 

[Sevenhills1952]

We've been here 40 years and well is only 80ft deep. Water is excellent quality. From day one I noticed I could draw out about 40 gallons at a time then it would slow to a trickle then no more. I put a light on outside of well house which turns on when pump is on.
I had a quality Gould's 3/4hp pump installed a few months ago, better than 1/2hp and doesn't run as long, still it's a low capacity well. All these years it's worked fine spacing out water demand things (don't run shower, run washer and try washing a car same time...no not one person[emoji38]).
I had long talk with a local 3rd generation well driller. I have a cinder block shed close to well house.
1) put a 1000 gallon tank & pump in shed, thermostat and heater for winter.
2) bury a 1000 gallon tank & pump.
Tank choices would be on a timer so they would fill from about 1am-5am
3) drill a new well about 300 ft.
Any option would be roughly $5-$6,000.
I'll stay the way it is. I have a creek and a spring pond I could pump out of, they're about 1000ft away, down about 100ft.
My guess is they'll run county water down road within 10-15 years. I'd hook onto that.
I'd keep well just for drinking (separate line of course).


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[Jackfre]

Storage tanks are very common here in N CA. All 4 of of my surrounding neighbors have 1000-1500 gallon tanks. Your house pressure will be boosted off the storage tank and the well will feed as it can to the storage tank, so it is essentially a two stage system to the house. In Jersey your issue is winter due to the low temps, so you have to either come up with a building for it, bury it or go with a small enough tank to fit in the house somewhere.

 

[472scout]

First step is to have your well properly inspected so you know what the real problem is.

 

[dcg9381]

e is winter due to the low temps, so you have to either come up with a building for it, bury it or go with a small enough tank to fit in the house somewhere.

There are "ag" water heater floats. But you still have to deal with the pipe connections and any "outdoor" pipe. When it got really cold, we basically circulated water from a bib on our building back into the tank...

 

[racerboy]

Thanks for all the feedback. First I called the guy that did the Hydrofracking and installed the 1hp pump. He told me to shut off the pump and to drop an ice cube down the well and time it until I heard the ‘plop’. That took about 15 seconds. He wants me to do that again at 4:00 and see what the difference is in the time it takes to hit water. He also told me that his drill gut is booked for the next 1.5 months (if we started thinking about a new well).

Then I spoke to the folks at the Well Manager company. There system is designed for these low yielding wells and basically gives you an intermediate storage tank. That’s way oversimplified but you get the idea. There is a digital system that eliminates the bleeder pressure tank and is basically a ‘set and go’ setup. They have a less expensive option that uses a solenoid and needle valve that is used in conjunction with the well pressure tank. The digital version is $6900 and the analog one is $4200. For a family of four, they recommend a second 210g storage tank for either system ($1500).

On a side note, even before I called the pump guy, I turned off the well pump, emptied the well bladder tank and checked the psi. It was about 33 psi. I did ask the pump guy if it should be higher, but he said that number didn’t matter. I thought I read that number should be 2 psi below the cut-in, so if I had a 30/50 switch it should be 28 psi and if it was a 40/60 switch is should be 38 psi. Did I misread that? I’m not sure what switch I have. I thought it was a 30/50, but I’m assuming the air pressure tank can’t INCREASE in psi over time, that it can only DECREASE. Is my understanding correct?


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[racerboy]

This is about where my pressure gauge taps out. If you use any water it drops down to around 30 but then comes back up to this level, but doesn’t seem to go any higher. The on/off pressure switch stays on, but the gauge doesn’t move any more.


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[HoosierBuddy]

15 seconds seems like forever, so I did the maths.

Your cube should drop 3600 feet in 15 seconds neglecting wind resistance. That also neglects the speed of sound which will affect how long it takes for the sound of the plop to reach your ears.

My thought is...it it's taking 15 seconds, it's hitting the side of the well and your number is pretty much not helpful.

The other thing that comes to mind to me is if the issue could be more in your pump. Can you somewhat easily break loose the piping between the pump and the pressure tank, run the pump, and just see how it behaves? Maybe even run the flow into a bucket and use your watch to calculate actual flow?

Phil

 

[racerboy]

Thanks Phil. Yeah, I did a quadratic equation to determine the distance based on how long it took to hear the splash and then subtracting the time it would take for the sound to travel. The distance was similar to what you said (>2500 ft) so clearly that’s of little value. You can hear the ice cube bouncing off the side of the well as It drops down, so the velocity is not really constant. I think the pump guy just wanted to see if the time was shorter in the afternoon.

I can take a picture of the pipe that comes out of the well head and maybe you can let me know if I can disconnect it.

This is probably a dumb question but doesn’t the fact that the pump pressurized the tank up to 40 psi mean that the pump is still working? If it was completely shot, wouldn’t the pressure just drop to 0? That’s what I thought happened last year but am not 100% sure. I’m assuming that even if the pump is working, it’s clearly not working optimally if it can’t get the pressure above the 40 psi mark, and the power is still on.


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[zak77]

My suggestions is to get a well guy out there to measure everything with their equipment so no guessing is going on before you start spending money. You need to know how deep the well is, static water level, recovery rate, pump output, daily usage etc. The 33 psi doesnt sound like big deal and as long it's close, it should work fine but what doesnt make sense is that you say it doesnt push past 42 psi? I would adjust the pressure switch so you have a 40/60 setting and put about 36-38 psi in pressure tank empty. From there you should see the pressure gauge drop to 40 psi then hear pump kick on till pressure builds to about 60psi and you hear pump shut off. Also, how big is your pressure tank??

I have a well that only makes about .5gpm with a 300+ deep well and previously had a 10 gallon pressure tank and only 1 time ran it dry, and that's with a family of 4. As it turned out a plastic fitting that transitioned the pit-less adapter to the poly water line cracked so water was spraying underground instead of getting to the house. PITA to get to but it was a $5 part, replaced w/brass. Thankfully a knowledgeable well guy helped me figure all this stuff out.

 

[Sevenhills1952]

My pump runs 15-20 seconds this morning when wife taking bath. Then we wait 1/2 hr. & I shower. We wash clothes late at night, hang on "solar dryer" in morning.
Horses each have a 6 gallon bucket in stall but prefer creek or spring.
If I pressure wash tractor, wash a car I tell wife first so she's not using lots of water.
We've never had a problem in 40 years spacing out use of water.
I could actually have a free well dug since we have horses. There's state funding available for that , they also fence off creek and plant plants so that horse manure doesn't go into creek which (they said...I called) eventually goes to the Chesapeake bay.
I have to agree with my farmer neighbor friend, I don't want government intervention on my property.


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[dcg9381]

> I did ask the pump guy if it should be higher, but he said that number didn’t matter. I thought I read that number should be 2 psi below the cut-in, so if I had a 30/50 switch it should be 28 psi and if it was a 40/60 switch is should be 38 psi. Did I misread that? I’m not sure what switch I have. I thought it was a 30/50, but I’m assuming the air pressure tank can’t INCREASE in psi over time, that it can only DECREASE. Is my understanding correct?

The numbers on the pressure tank won't change the absolute pressure of the pump. Yes, generally, the pressure tank psi is lower than cut in.

30/50 should cut in at about 28.
40/60 should cut in at about 38.
Generally, these can be adjusted with the pre-load on the spring of the switch, there are youtube videos.
The pump will have an operating pressure range so the switch and the pump need to be in the same pressure range ballpark.
You can also manually actuate the switch to see if you can get over 40 psi. Those gauges can be a bit wonky over time too.
It sounds like your pump can't keep up when you are flowing water...

But what it sounds like to me is that you have a well with a marginal recharge ability. If that's true, you'll need to setup some sort of system to pump water out when available (into some storage) and repeat. Those $4-$6k solutions don't solve the problem that they only have a few hundred gallons of "buffer" water - but I guess they may be better in cold climates.

 

[Chapter21]

You need 2 important facts:
How much water do you really need/use?
How much water does your well actually produce in 24 hours?

Google says the average person uses 200 gallons per day for everything they do. If you had the right size storage tank that only requires a well that produces 8 gallons per hour per person. 3 people is still less than .5 GPM. If you are using irrigation a large sprinkler/garden hose is only around 5gpm.

Even though my well runs out after about 200 gallons, I can easily pull 2,000+ gallons per day if I spread that out over 24 hours. You can buy a cheap digital water meter that mounts on your hose from Amazon to estimate water use.

 

[racerboy]

Well pump guy is coming in Thu. to pull the pump. He reminded me that last time, the pump overheated so much that the pvc pipe that was connected to the pump swelled up like a football and split.

He told me to call the town tomorrow to find out the original depth of the well, static level abs flow rate. He was pretty sure they would have that info since the house was built in 2000.

Is there any sense in buying one of the livestock tanks from Tractor Supply and then going to a local stream to fill it up and then somehow use that water fit things like flushing toilets, taking showers? Is that just even doable? I’m bored exactly sure how I’d get water into or out of it. It just popped in my head because I happened to see one the other day. Something like this?




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[Lefty's Garage]

I've lived with water wells most of my life and have had a number of problems crop up over the years (comes with the territory). My most recent one was a corroded discharge pipe (connects submerged well pump and rises up to grade level well head) and created a very low flow output similar to yours. Also had well pump wear out, impellers fail/damage or intake screen/filters clogged. It'd be worth it to have a well / pump guy to check out; especially since your neighbors wells are producing. Sometimes a well can be too deep but I doubt that is the problem. I'm staying tuned for the results. good luck! (I just saw the above post but as I went to post)

 

[Chapter21]

You could certainly fill a tank like that if you have the time, those IBC totes are usually under a hundred bucks for "food grade" on craigslist. Maybe collecting rainwater would be easier if you want to go that route? Or, if you use much for watering you could use grey water for that instead of fresh water.

It's not uncommon for most municipalities to have a place where people can go to fill up on "city" water. There are people who live entirely off of delivered tank water because they can't get a well or something.

 

[Bert_]

If you're running out of water I would, at a minimum, install a low pressure cutoff switch. Wouldn't solve the water issue but will at least save the pump.

 

[Bert_]

Not all water needs to be potable. Actually most of it doesn't need to be. This used to be a really common scenario before drilled wells. Low producing shallow wells.

I've still got a cistern next to the corner of my house. Holds 2-3000 gallons. Filled with water from the gutters. It doesn't have to be underground.

 

[racerboy]

If you're running out of water I would, at a minimum, install a low pressure cutoff switch. Wouldn't solve the water issue but will at least save the pump.

Thx. Will definitely ask the well pump guy about this on Thu.


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[doctordirt]

Sounds like a storage tank coupled with your pump on a timer are in order. Harvest water 6 times per day at 4 hour intervals would yield water when you need it.

 

[justanengineer]

Even if your well really is 500’ deep, for the cost of those tank systems you could have another new well drilled, be a couple grand ahead, and not just put a bandaid on a bad well. Given that your pump/fracking guy failed once, I’d ask around for the old driller that’s been around 50+ years and that neighbors swear by.


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[racerboy]

Even if your well really is 500’ deep, for the cost of those tank systems you could have another new well drilled, be a couple grand ahead, and not just put a bandaid on a bad well. Given that your pump/fracking guy failed once, I’d ask around for the old driller that’s been around 50+ years and that neighbors swear by.


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I am going to get an estimate on a new well, but I don’t think it will be less expensive. I think it will probably run close to $10,000 here. I am going to call the guy who drilled the original well. My understanding is that he drilled most of the wells up here.


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[Chapter21]

There is no reason a tank system needs to cost 4 digits. The other system looks like it includes some kind of fancy pressure regulation, which you do not need, but it if you want that it cost the same on top of whatever the well cost.

If your current well flows at least .5gpm, it should be just fine, you just might need a new pump, and a switch to protect from that in the future. For a tank you need nothing but a big plastic tank for a few hundred bucks, use a nicer one for potable water than toilet water, but still not that expensive, and a timer like stated above. You'll need a second pump to pressurize the water from the tank, add $200 or so. Nothing fancy, all probably found at Tractor Supply.

 

[tez929rr]

I am going to get an estimate on a new well, but I don’t think it will be less expensive. I think it will probably run close to $10,000 here. I am going to call the guy who drilled the original well. My understanding is that he drilled most of the wells up here.


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New wells run around 15K here and a 1500 gallon poly tank was $800 when I bought one for my windmill. I still think your long term solution probably involves drilling or lowering the pump if possible.

 

[Chapter21]

New wells run around 15K here and a 1500 gallon poly tank was $800 when I bought one for my windmill. I still think your long term solution probably involves drilling or lowering the pump if possible.

Seems excessive, but that goes back to the question, "how much water do you really need"? 1500 gallons is enough for 3-4 average homes if you can pump that over 24 hours.

 

[justanengineer]

Not sure what part of Jersey you’re in, but in the NNJ/NYC metro wells run ~$10/ft. I’d suggest not trying to put anything hillbilly over on the health dept.


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[Jlarson]

We don't make any recommendations on what to do in cases like this without videoing the well first to see the condition of the casing and screens, and test pumping.

We have done several small low yield systems, either with fabricated steel tanks or an NSF poly tank. Whenever the level controls called for the well a timer starts and runs the pump for a cycle then off for a recovery time. That continues till the tank is full. A booster pump and bladder tank draws from the storage tank to provide system pressure. Nice thing with a storage tank if you have to have water tanked in like while a well is pulled you've got somewhere to put it.

 

[racerboy]

Super helpful information. I should have posted these questions last year when they hydrofracked my well and put in a 1 hp pump. I would have had them put in the ‘safety’ switch to help preserve the pump and would have looked at storage tanks.

Interestingly, this morning when we turned the pump back on, the pressure did climb to almost 50 psi. The pump never clicked off so I’m assuming it’s just a hair shy of the 30/50 cut-off, or I have a 40/60 switch. Not sure how to tell that.


Also, before I pull any trigger on long-term storage tanks, I saw that my local Tractor Supply has these smaller 35 gal or 65 gal water tanks. Do you think it’s worth getting one of these for right now? Even if just to have backup non-potable water? We have plenty of spring water jugs for cooking and drinking. This would be more as backup for toilet flushes.

35 gal


65 gal



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[tez929rr]

Seems excessive, but that goes back to the question, "how much water do you really need"? 1500 gallons is enough for 3-4 average homes if you can pump that over 24 hours.

Not really. I only run the windmill periodically to fill the tank. I fill a stock trough from the tank. Now, the main house tank is 5000 gallons, which is less than I can pump in a day. But we don’t have storage tanks for low yield wells. With a tank I have 5000 gallons available all the time. If my well goes out (it’s happened a few times for various reasons), I have a few weeks supply while I get the well fixed. During our big ice event this year I had enough head pressure to keep water flowing even when the power outages kept the boost pump off. It also means I have a decent supply of water for fighting fire, and most home insurers will give a break for it. We pay people in the neighborhood to place a 2 1/2 inch fire hookup on their tanks.

 

[Copymutt]

Regarding your low yield and neighbor’s great yield: Check w/ your county or state water resources. They may have aquifer maps to assist w/ well locations. Its not unusual to have a near dry hole just a few hundred yards from a 12gpm well around here.