To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

Low-yield well solutions?

OP
R

racerboy

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 7, 2005
Messages
458
Location
New Jersey
Regarding your low yield and neighbor’s great yield: Check w/ your county or state water resources. They may have aquifer maps to assist w/ well locations. Its not unusual to have a near dry hole just a few hundred yards from a 12gpm well around here.

Ok. Thx!

I got the original records from when the well was drilled back in 2000.

Depth: 500’
Yield: 5 gpm
Static: 40’
Draw Down: 400’
Pump: 400’

The pump guy wanted this information. I think he was curious if he could set the pump any lower (it’s at 480’ now). Not sure how close to the bottom you can go.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

dcg9381

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 20, 2018
Messages
11,627
Location
Austin, TX
I have searched but can't seem to find an answer so I thought I'd ask.

I am collecting what I need to install a transfer switch for hooking my generator to the house. I can't find if the power inlet box that mounts outside has to be a specific distance off the ground. It will actual by on a wall of a covered porch. Partly due to looking like the best place for it (protected from the weather and what not) and due to the insane price of wire.

Does anyone know, if by code, there is a minimum height that it needs mounted? Where I live, you have to pull a permit and have it inspected. I just want to make sure it's done right the first time.

Thanks
Ghost

I did ask the pump guy if it should be higher, but he said that number didn’t matter. I thought I read that number should be 2 psi below the cut-in, so if I had a 30/50 switch it should be 28 psi and if it was a 40/60 switch is should be 38 psi. Did I misread that? I’m not sure what switch I have. I thought it was a 30/50, but I’m assuming the air pressure tank can’t INCREASE in psi over time, that it can only DECREASE. Is my understanding correct?

7015760baacbd3aea8f96e91bfeff064.jpg
This is about where my pressure gauge taps out. If you use any water it drops down to around 30 but then comes back up to this level, but doesn’t seem to go any higher. The on/off pressure switch stays on, but the gauge doesn’t move any more.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Regarding your low yield and neighbor’s great yield: Check w/ your county or state water resources. They may have aquifer maps to assist w/ well locations. Its not unusual to have a near dry hole just a few hundred yards from a 12gpm well around here.
 

Attachments

  • 7015760baacbd3aea8f96e91bfeff064.jpg
    7015760baacbd3aea8f96e91bfeff064.jpg
    89.6 KB · Views: 0

dcg9381

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 20, 2018
Messages
11,627
Location
Austin, TX
even if your well really is 500’ deep, for the cost of those tank systems you could have another new well drilled, be a couple grand ahead, and not just put a bandaid on a bad well. Given that your pump/fracking guy failed once, I’d ask around for the old driller that’s been around 50+ years and that neighbors swear by.

Around here wells are 500-700' deep. A 500' well starts at about $20,000. Given it may be cheaper elsewhere...

5gpm recharge rate when that well was "new" is not very high volume. Around here, the aquifers are much more stressed than they were 10 years ago. Yes, you can (and perhaps should) drop the well pump to minimum depth (ask your well guy).
And look, a 5 GPM well will "work" - you're just going to have to pump it into a tank regularly and work with the limit.

I have concerns that you well is going "dry" and if you don't have pump protection, that's going to do some damage long term.

It's also interesting - here, at 500', our well pumps are in the well shaft. It's much easier to push water than it is to pull it.

Those Tractor supply tanks are fine. You can also find potable water containers on facebook, craiglist (around here) - for some reason they are common. Hold more water and cost less. They look like cages.

Our water comes from rainfall - as I'm done with wells - but it'd be relatively easy to setup a fairly big tank that supports both. We run it through a sediment filter and then UV before we bring it into the house.
 

Fortress67

Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2011
Messages
11
Location
South East PA
I have a 1/2 gpm well for the last 20 Years.
My First advise is Don't was cars, Don't Water Lawn, Don't waste.

Only ran out when i left a hose on by mistake long ago and when we had the house washed and the guy said no problem. Four days later and 4 trucks of water the house was clean.
Now for the future, i just had my pump replaced and asked the well driller what to do.
He said to drill another well 4 feet from the existing well, then Hydro frack the existing well. This would cause the second well to act like a underground storage tank without all the necessary pumps/filters and precautions. And a 6 inch hole is how many gallons per foot? My current well is 440 and the pump is at 380, water usually at 30+-.
Said he has done it several times and since he is a family friend i trust him.
 

Bert_

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 24, 2016
Messages
9,687
Location
NW Iowa
Super helpful information. I should have posted these questions last year when they hydrofracked my well and put in a 1 hp pump. I would have had them put in the ‘safety’ switch to help preserve the pump and would have looked at storage tanks.

Interestingly, this morning when we turned the pump back on, the pressure did climb to almost 50 psi. The pump never clicked off so I’m assuming it’s just a hair shy of the 30/50 cut-off, or I have a 40/60 switch. Not sure how to tell that.
5d5ac90b8ff651eec426297a8539b946.jpg

Also, before I pull any trigger on long-term storage tanks, I saw that my local Tractor Supply has these smaller 35 gal or 65 gal water tanks. Do you think it’s worth getting one of these for right now? Even if just to have backup non-potable water? We have plenty of spring water jugs for cooking and drinking. This would be more as backup for toilet flushes.

35 gal
2e8ddb43c7c8d13faf421b9732208f4d.jpg

65 gal
e457bb2e2e8d770b06f37b64f1a3dfa0.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Look at the ibc totes. You can find used ones pretty cheap. They hold about 300 gal
 

Attachments

  • e457bb2e2e8d770b06f37b64f1a3dfa0.jpg
    e457bb2e2e8d770b06f37b64f1a3dfa0.jpg
    181.7 KB · Views: 0
  • 2e8ddb43c7c8d13faf421b9732208f4d.jpg
    2e8ddb43c7c8d13faf421b9732208f4d.jpg
    139.3 KB · Views: 0
  • 5d5ac90b8ff651eec426297a8539b946.jpg
    5d5ac90b8ff651eec426297a8539b946.jpg
    75.6 KB · Views: 0

dcg9381

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 20, 2018
Messages
11,627
Location
Austin, TX
> Interestingly, this morning when we turned the pump back on, the pressure did climb to almost 50 psi. The pump never clicked off so I’m assuming it’s just a hair shy of the 30/50 cut-off, or I have a 40/60 switch. Not sure how to tell that.

OP, ANY well pump that does not shut off is damaging the pump. If your pump has been run dry, it may have been damaged enough that it can no longer reach cut off pressure... Provide your make/model of pump - we need to see the performance / pressure graph.
Youtube "well pressure switch" - good info there on how these work and easy enough to replace from the hardware store.
A 2-stage setup (with a tank) solves your pressure problem too. I get 70psi out of a Gould's pump (that was designed for it).

Look at the "pump saver plus" - you really need one of these in your setup... Or something similar.
 

HoosierBuddy

Well-known member
Joined
May 9, 2006
Messages
2,913
Location
Southern Indiana
Regarding the "Should I get the Tractor Supply storage tank" question.

Personally, I have 1 of those 65 gallon Norwesco ones they sell and had them order a second one for me. I welded up a stand for them in the basement and set up valve for easy refill and a hose to drain. I'm using them for storing potable water for an emergency. They are pretty well built tanks and the best price I could find around here.

Phil
 

pcmeiners

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 13, 2009
Messages
7,825
Location
In the only town in Pennsylvania, Bloomsburg.
How far is your neighbors well from yours?

In another life I drilled wells for a couple years, Some of the other outfits in the same line purposely drilled wells way beyond decent water stratas. If you neighbor's well is relatively close, good chance the water bearing strata is very close to his wells depth on your property. If you do drill a new well I would NOT use the same drilling company.

Scam outfit....

On Staten Island we have a Little League which need a well drilled for watering 3 fields, they went down 400ft , never got a decent amount of water. I live approx. 1000 ft from the ball field, went down only 60 feet and could supply an entire neighborhood. One of my neighbors let the league known, they drilled down 60 feet and now have all the water they need for 3 fields.
 
OP
R

racerboy

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 7, 2005
Messages
458
Location
New Jersey
I just spoke with the pump guy. He is friends with the guy who drilled the original well. He said he is going to talk to him tomorrow to see what he thinks the best option is for getting water back. He said he might be able to drill the well even deeper than 500’, but I’m not sure that’s the best route because the well has already lost huge amounts of static level. I guess I’ll just wait and see what he says.

In the meantime, I got one of those TSC containers and stopped at a local reservoir to get some water. I used a couple of 5 gal buckets to try and fill it, but that got old fast. Plus I just had arthroscopic surgery on my shoulder about a week and a half ago and can’t really lift much. Is there a portable transfer pump that I can use to siphon water out of the reservoir into the tank? 12V power would be ideal, but if needed, I have another truck that has a 120V plug in the bed.
53edd81a650fd6ed455f6b65d629745b.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Attachments

  • 53edd81a650fd6ed455f6b65d629745b.jpg
    53edd81a650fd6ed455f6b65d629745b.jpg
    103.7 KB · Views: 0

American Locomotive

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 8, 2017
Messages
10,928
Location
Rhode Island
Ok. Thx!

I got the original records from when the well was drilled back in 2000.

Depth: 500’
Yield: 5 gpm
Static: 40’
Draw Down: 400’
Pump: 400’

The pump guy wanted this information. I think he was curious if he could set the pump any lower (it’s at 480’ now). Not sure how close to the bottom you can go.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Wow! 400' draw down with a 40' static level! That is not a very productive well at all. I don't even know how the well driller can say it's a 5 GPM well if the draw down comes down the exact level of the pump.

Basically, those numbers are saying that when not being pumped, the water level in the well sits at 40' down the hole. But when being pumped at 5 GPM, the water level will drop to 400' down the hole. Normally, they design it so that at the steady state "yield" flow (so 5 GPM in your case) there is a sizeable buffer above the pump. Usually 25+ feet.

Wonder if someone greased some palms to get that magic 5 GPM number?
 
Last edited:

Chapter21

Well-known member
Joined
May 14, 2021
Messages
151
Location
North Carolina
Part of the problem here is your pump was obviously oversized. A low yielding well should only have a low flowing pump to match, so you can't ruin everything accidentally. Mine is the same way - don't know the numbers for the well, but the pump will give me 13GPM if I tap right at the top of the well, but my recharge rate is probably less than 5GPM. That can be OK if you are aware of it and how to use it, but not otherwise.

They can put a valve on top of the well to restrict the output of the pump, but if you replace the pump in the same well it should probably be a smaller one.

I've got about 30 gallon water jugs refilled with tap water stacked up in a closet in case it stops working - mainly for toilets.
 

dcg9381

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 20, 2018
Messages
11,627
Location
Austin, TX
I just spoke with the pump guy. He is friends with the guy who drilled the original well. He said he is going to talk to him tomorrow to see what he thinks the best option is for getting water back. He said he might be able to drill the well even deeper than 500’, but I’m not sure that’s the best route because the well has already lost huge amounts of static level. I guess I’ll just wait and see what he says.

Let us know. Here wells are "cased" - I don't think they can be drilled in the same hole.
If I understand "static level" that's the level where water shows up. Dropping static level means that the aquifer has been reduced. I'd do some digging to see if your state/county tracks well data anywhere. I can tell you that here the trends are not good.
A 400' static level and 5gpm - that's really nuts to me. Means the well doesn't "recharge" very fast at all.

In the meantime, I got one of those TSC containers and stopped at a local reservoir to get some water. I used a couple of 5 gal buckets to try and fill it, but that got old fast. Plus I just had arthroscopic surgery on my shoulder about a week and a half ago and can’t really lift much. Is there a portable transfer pump that I can use to siphon water out of the reservoir into the tank? 12V power would be ideal, but if needed, I have another truck that has a 120V plug in the bed.
A bunch of us were doing this stuff when the "great freeze" struck this year. Find an RV pump - it's 12V and is the right solution. Sureflow is a brand. I'd recommend a pressure tank (even a small one). One hack is to remove the back-flow preventer on a hose bib at your home and then hook it up via simple garden hose... As long as your well has a check valve somewhere, this will work great.
 

Dagny

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 25, 2014
Messages
2,980
Location
Northern Wi.
We use to put restrictors on wells that had low capacity to keep the pumps from pumping them out . A larger horsepower pump works against you in this regard.
 

dcg9381

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 20, 2018
Messages
11,627
Location
Austin, TX
Part of the problem here is your pump was obviously oversized. A low yielding well should only have a low flowing pump to match, so you can't ruin everything accidentally. Mine is the same way - don't know the numbers for the well, but the pump will give me 13GPM if I tap right at the top of the well, but my recharge rate is probably less than 5GPM. That can be OK if you are aware of it and how to use it, but not otherwise.

They can put a valve on top of the well to restrict the output of the pump, but if you replace the pump in the same well it should probably be a smaller one.

I've got about 30 gallon water jugs refilled with tap water stacked up in a closet in case it stops working - mainly for toilets.

I don't necessarily agree with this. I don't know of any pump that has a flow rate below 5gpm. I think a low yielding well needs a tank - that's the bottom line as his static water level has dropped so there is very little reserve of water ... And all well pumps need run-dry protection.

The 400' static level explains how the OP is able to "pull" water from the well rather than push it from an in-well pump. Also explains why the pump is having such a hard time maintaining pressure when the static level drops.
 

Bert_

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 24, 2016
Messages
9,687
Location
NW Iowa
I just spoke with the pump guy. He is friends with the guy who drilled the original well. He said he is going to talk to him tomorrow to see what he thinks the best option is for getting water back. He said he might be able to drill the well even deeper than 500’, but I’m not sure that’s the best route because the well has already lost huge amounts of static level. I guess I’ll just wait and see what he says.

In the meantime, I got one of those TSC containers and stopped at a local reservoir to get some water. I used a couple of 5 gal buckets to try and fill it, but that got old fast. Plus I just had arthroscopic surgery on my shoulder about a week and a half ago and can’t really lift much. Is there a portable transfer pump that I can use to siphon water out of the reservoir into the tank? 12V power would be ideal, but if needed, I have another truck that has a 120V plug in the bed.
53edd81a650fd6ed455f6b65d629745b.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
If you've got 120v a sump pump would work good and be cheap. I often put one in a 5gal bucket with holes drilled in it to keep it out of the mud.

Anything 12v is going to be slow
 
OP
R

racerboy

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 7, 2005
Messages
458
Location
New Jersey
None of this sounds good to me. Starting to think that maybe I need to talk to a different outfit than the guy that did the original drilling.

I’ll call the same health department folks tomorrow to see if they have any aquifer maps.

If the pressure tank reads 50 psi and nobody uses any water and I turn off the well pump, should it stay at 50?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
OP
R

racerboy

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 7, 2005
Messages
458
Location
New Jersey
Let us know. Here wells are "cased" - I don't think they can be drilled in the same hole.
If I understand "static level" that's the level where water shows up. Dropping static level means that the aquifer has been reduced. I'd do some digging to see if your state/county tracks well data anywhere. I can tell you that here the trends are not good.
A 400' static level and 5gpm - that's really nuts to me. Means the well doesn't "recharge" very fast at all.


A bunch of us were doing this stuff when the "great freeze" struck this year. Find an RV pump - it's 12V and is the right solution. Sureflow is a brand. I'd recommend a pressure tank (even a small one). One hack is to remove the back-flow preventer on a hose bib at your home and then hook it up via simple garden hose... As long as your well has a check valve somewhere, this will work great.

Can I use the 65 gal tank I bought today to do this ‘backfill’ or does it have to be pressurized?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

PCustoms

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 23, 2011
Messages
22,193
Location
VT
Op are you actually out of water, or just concerned the pump is not shutting off?

Is you pump downhole, with the pressure switch and tank in the basement?

Have you confirmed your switch is not scaled up, and that your tank bladder is good?

Fix the cheap parts first, then expensive.
 

Sevenhills1952

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 30, 2018
Messages
1,750
Location
Virginia
I'll catch h*** for this but I put a light on my pump. Whether you have a well house like I do or bladder tank is in basement I'd want to know when the pump is running. Outside my well house I put a socket with a purple 60 Watt bulb in it. It's been that way 40 years.
Purple so I can see if it's on 100s ft away.
It's saved me countless times, letting me know if there's a leak, toilets not shutting off, etc. Where I catch h--- is because I simply wired it to 2 legs of the 240v pump leads so it's 120v. (Inspectors and code enforcement police are now crapping their pants).
I want to know when pump runs and for how long.
If I were the OP I'd want to know that also.
If pump is running, switch and everything is ok and set properly and it never builds full pressure I'd be thinking about a new quality pump (Goulds is a good one).
One thing if you haven't already checked is the small supply tube going from tank to pressure gauge. Those are notorious for stopping up. I've also checked my pressure gauge using my shop air against it's gauge and some over the years I've found inaccurate.
If I use a 5 gallon bucket right at my well frost proof faucet and watch it's about 7-8 gpm. My problem is recovery or quantity. I can pull about 35-40 gallons at a time, then it slows down. Waiting 20-30 minutes to recover it's ok again.
The few times someone has "let the well run dry", light stays on (pumps running), I flip the breaker, wait 20 minutes and all is well.

Sent from my SM-S205DL using Tapatalk
 
OP
R

racerboy

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 7, 2005
Messages
458
Location
New Jersey
Op are you actually out of water, or just concerned the pump is not shutting off?

Is you pump downhole, with the pressure switch and tank in the basement?

Have you confirmed your switch is not scaled up, and that your tank bladder is good?

Fix the cheap parts first, then expensive.

I ran out of water the other day. Now we are being Uber careful with turning the pump off when we have no water needs.

The pump does not turn off even when the pressure gets to 51 psi, but it also doesn’t go any higher than that.

Here is a picture of the switch with cover removed:
0df6fba3c424ec851d3d5be1f97fcaf6.jpg

I don’t know how to check the bladder. The other day I drained the pressure tank to check the psi and I shook it and didn’t hear any water sloshing around. I’m still not sure what that tank pressure should be. I thought I had a 30/50 switch, but the pressure in the tank was more like 32-33, which made me believe I have a 40/60 switch and since it never gets above 51 psi, it never cuts out. Does that make sense?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Attachments

  • 0df6fba3c424ec851d3d5be1f97fcaf6.jpg
    0df6fba3c424ec851d3d5be1f97fcaf6.jpg
    73.3 KB · Views: 0
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

PCustoms

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 23, 2011
Messages
22,193
Location
VT
I'd start with dialling back the pressure switch so it shuts off. That has nothing to do with the well, and will help pr vent the pump from burning out.

I'd also be curious to see how much leakdown you have. This is going to depend on your particular setup, but basically involves shitting the valves down after the pump kicks off to see if a check valve, tank etc is leaking. Note: I need to do this myself as I've noticed if I shut my pump down it consumes a lot less electric.

Grew up with a shallow well and a jet pump in the basement, lots of fine there. Artesian wells are a bit different in that they can't loose prime, but if there is leaking you still won't get the pressure to the tank and controller. I suspect you have some setup or leakage issues on top of the poor well performance.
 
OP
R

racerboy

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 7, 2005
Messages
458
Location
New Jersey
I'll catch h*** for this but I put a light on my pump. Whether you have a well house like I do or bladder tank is in basement I'd want to know when the pump is running. Outside my well house I put a socket with a purple 60 Watt bulb in it. It's been that way 40 years.
Purple so I can see if it's on 100s ft away.
It's saved me countless times, letting me know if there's a leak, toilets not shutting off, etc. Where I catch h--- is because I simply wired it to 2 legs of the 240v pump leads so it's 120v. (Inspectors and code enforcement police are now crapping their pants).
I want to know when pump runs and for how long.
If I were the OP I'd want to know that also.
If pump is running, switch and everything is ok and set properly and it never builds full pressure I'd be thinking about a new quality pump (Goulds is a good one).
One thing if you haven't already checked is the small supply tube going from tank to pressure gauge. Those are notorious for stopping up. I've also checked my pressure gauge using my shop air against it's gauge and some over the years I've found inaccurate.
If I use a 5 gallon bucket right at my well frost proof faucet and watch it's about 7-8 gpm. My problem is recovery or quantity. I can pull about 35-40 gallons at a time, then it slows down. Waiting 20-30 minutes to recover it's ok again.
The few times someone has "let the well run dry", light stays on (pumps running), I flip the breaker, wait 20 minutes and all is well.

Sent from my SM-S205DL using Tapatalk

There is a 120V ‘extension’ tied into the switch that is powered when there is power going through the switch to the pump. I have a little lamp plugged into it so I can tell as soon as I go downstairs that the pump is energized.

After they hydrofracked the well last year and put in a new pump, I used to watch the light come on, the pressure would rise, I’d hear the ‘click’ and then the lamp would go off. Now, the lamp stays on anytime the wall switch to the well pump is on.

I’m holding the extension from the switch in my hand abs you can see the little plug for the lamp.
1653e4a92b4c30031fbc1e9b859861ac.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Attachments

  • 1653e4a92b4c30031fbc1e9b859861ac.jpg
    1653e4a92b4c30031fbc1e9b859861ac.jpg
    62.2 KB · Views: 0

Chapter21

Well-known member
Joined
May 14, 2021
Messages
151
Location
North Carolina
I don't necessarily agree with this. I don't know of any pump that has a flow rate below 5gpm. I think a low yielding well needs a tank - that's the bottom line as his static water level has dropped so there is very little reserve of water ... And all well pumps need run-dry protection.
LOL...do you keep a running catalog of "all" the pumps in your head? Sure, there are plenty that will do 5GPM. I think the OP said something about a 3/4hp pump, that's simply too much for this well. 1/4, 1/3, 1/2 horsepower pumps are easily available. No reason to buy more pump than you have water for.

Also look up what a "dole valve" is. If you have an oversized pump, it needs to be either restricted down to a level that it will not out pump, otherwise you always have to be conscious of water use. If you are a normal person and just blindly use water like in the city, this is what you need. My house will be a rental soon - and before I allow that the well will be choked down with a valve because I won't let tenants over pump my well.

"All" well pumps do not have run dry protection, I would even say "most" don't. Yes, I agree it's a good idea, but still no reason to over pump.
 
OP
R

racerboy

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 7, 2005
Messages
458
Location
New Jersey
I'd start with dialling back the pressure switch so it shuts off. That has nothing to do with the well, and will help pr vent the pump from burning out.

Oh. I did not know that. I thought that the two (the cut-in/off switch and the well pump were somehow rated the same).

Is adjusting the switch ‘down’ to turn off the power easy to do?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Kev442

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 15, 2009
Messages
5,386
Location
Wi
I am completely baffled by the pumps inability to reach the preset psi and shutoff. There is no way the pump would be sucking air after sitting all night. I agree that the pump and line need to come out and be inspected for damage/leaks.
 
OP
R

racerboy

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 7, 2005
Messages
458
Location
New Jersey
LOL...do you keep a running catalog of "all" the pumps in your head? Sure, there are plenty that will do 5GPM. I think the OP said something about a 3/4hp pump, that's simply too much for this well. 1/4, 1/3, 1/2 horsepower pumps are easily available. No reason to buy more pump than you have water for.

Also look up what a "dole valve" is. If you have an oversized pump, it needs to be either restricted down to a level that it will not out pump, otherwise you always have to be conscious of water use. If you are a normal person and just blindly use water like in the city, this is what you need. My house will be a rental soon - and before I allow that the well will be choked down with a valve because I won't let tenants over pump my well.

"All" well pumps do not have run dry protection, I would even say "most" don't. Yes, I agree it's a good idea, but still no reason to over pump.

Actually, the pump guy wrote “1hp 7” on my pressure tank when he installed the pump last year. I read that as 1 hp/7 gpm. I may be wrong about the 7, but I distinctly remember him telling me that since the pump was so far down in the well that it needed to be 1 hp. The one he replaced was a 3/4 hp.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
OP
R

racerboy

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 7, 2005
Messages
458
Location
New Jersey
I am completely baffled by the pumps inability to reach the preset psi and shutoff. There is no way the pump would be sucking air after sitting all night. I agree that the pump and line need to come out and be inspected for damage/leaks.

I’m hoping that the pump guy is going to pull the pump on Thursday. I’m happy to try and dial it back if that’s easy to do

Would I also have to take some pressure out of the tank? I think I read it’s supposed to a couple of psi less than the cut-in rate.
 

PCustoms

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 23, 2011
Messages
22,193
Location
VT
Oh. I did not know that. I thought that the two (the cut-in/off switch and the well pump were somehow rated the same).

Is adjusting the switch ‘down’ to turn off the power easy to do?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Should be. Been about 20 years since I've had to touch one (walked into the basement on Thanksgiving day to see the tank perforated and a jet of water shooting across the floor) but from memory it's just loosening/tightening the nut on top of the spring until you get the pump to shutoff at the pressure your want (or can make).

Someone else commented non it too, but if that small pipe that leads to the diaphragm is plugged up with rust or scale the switch will not work correctly. If the tank is water logged (shot sir bladder) it also won't act correctly.
 
OP
R

racerboy

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 7, 2005
Messages
458
Location
New Jersey
I just read a little article on how to adjust the two-post pressure switch. I’m going to give that a go tomorrow to see if I can get the cut-off pressure down to the 50 psi mark.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

avistar23

Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2015
Messages
17
7015760baacbd3aea8f96e91bfeff064.jpg
This is about where my pressure gauge taps out. If you use any water it drops down to around 30 but then comes back up to this level, but doesn’t seem to go any higher. The on/off pressure switch stays on, but the gauge doesn’t move any more.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I have seen this problem several times with leaks in unions on the suction side of the pumps. The issue only came out when psi rose and would never leak externally, only let the pump **** air in the suction side, it would also come and go with temperature and other factors. Are you sure there is no where it can be sucking air on the suction side.
 

Kev442

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 15, 2009
Messages
5,386
Location
Wi
50psi is plenty anyway, the adjustment is easy. If I am remembering correctly, I dropped mine down to 45 years ago.
 
OP
R

racerboy

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 7, 2005
Messages
458
Location
New Jersey
How do I check that? Isn’t the suction side 480’ feet down in the well? Sorry if that’s a dumb question.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
OP
R

racerboy

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 7, 2005
Messages
458
Location
New Jersey
Also, I’m sure this isn’t the case, but is it possible that the pressure switch is bad?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
OP
R

racerboy

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 7, 2005
Messages
458
Location
New Jersey
50psi is plenty anyway, the adjustment is easy. If I am remembering correctly, I dropped mine down to 45 years ago.

Ok cool. According to the article I read, with the two-post switch, you only need to adjust the one post to maintain the 20 psi gap. If I lowered the cut-out to 45, then the cut-in would be at 25. Is that ok?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

BukitCase

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 11, 2017
Messages
1,075
Location
Oregon
Generally, well water isn't too kind to components - various minerals can cause buildups and even plugs - the FIRST thing that can (and does) go wrong, is GAUGES. Before I spent much $$$ on your well, I would buy a new gauge like the one you have and replace the old one - you know what the existing one reads, after replacing it and there's no change, you're only out a few bucks - but at least you'll know more than you do now.

Once you know what's REALLY happening pressure-wise, you need to realize that your "pump guy" may not have realized what you asked about the diaphragm pressure setting - if he DID understand, I'd recommend getting a different "pump guy", because he BLEW it - pressure on the diaphragm ABSOLUTELY must be a few PSI LOWER than the pressure switch's cut-IN pressure, because if it's NOT, then the pump will NEVER TURN ON because the pressure switch thinks there's always enough water pressure so it doesn't NEED to turn on.

If your new gauge reads the same as the old one, and your pump is running constantly, I'm surprised the pump hasn't died yet - it'd be a REALLY good idea to figure this out SOONER than later.

Speaking of which, here's a vid for setting your pressure switch

Remember to ONLY use insulated tools for this, there's an excellent chance you have bare metal wiring lugs with 240 volt across them...

And a basic well diagram

Notice at the very bottom of the well is the pump - typically the actual MOTOR is the bottom half of the pump (so it's more likely to be cooled) - the upper half of the pump is whatever impellers that pump has, stacked on the driven shaft - I've had wells that ran on a 3/4 horse pump (my existing one) but that well's only 60 feet deep - also had a well that was 280 feet deep, it had a 3 horse pump with 23 stacked impellers.

Just above the pump in the diagram, see the check valve - this is a one-way valve that keeps the pipe above it from draining out between cycles - usually called a "foot" valve. these can wear out and leak down (in fact, nearly every component in the system can fail)

If your gauge isn't lying to you, and the pump isn't shutting off, that could be a leak in the pipe that's ABOVE the water level - that could allow PART of the water that's being pumped to just dump back into the well casing - That could be the reason your pump isn't coming up to cut-off pressure, because the entire system from pump to pressure tank has to be leak-proof or it can NOT build pressure. The bigger the leak, the less likely it'll come up to pressure.

Depending on what kind of pipe your well has, that "evil well water" I mentioned earlier could have caused the pipe itself to erode away - I replaced piping in one well that was galvanized - the ONLY parts of that piping I recognized as being galvanized, were the parts that were PROTECTED by the electrical tape that'd been used to fasten the pump wiring to the pipe - the rest of the pipe wasn't very far from collapsing and dropping pump and all into the well - I replaced all 60' of that with schedule 80 CPVC and a new bronze check valve - water tasted better after that too...

Hopefully the diagram I posted will help you in troubleshooting - remember, the more you learn about this the less likely your wallet will be calling you names :=)

HTH... Steve
 
Last edited:
OP
R

racerboy

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 7, 2005
Messages
458
Location
New Jersey
Thanks Steve
That diagram is great. And your explanation of how the pipe coming up from the pipe might be leaking back into the well and preventing it from reaching the cut-off pressure makes a lot of sense.

I confirmed that it is a 60/40 switch. Stupid me never thought to look inside the plastic cover. Am I able to turn this down to below 50 or do I need to replace it with a 50/30? Also, you mentioned insulated tools. I don’t have an insulated wrench to turn the nut ccw. I can certainly go get one, but couldn’t I also just turn the power off, adjust the nut, abs then turn the power back on?

e7571d46d320b682109b52dba177a818.jpg

If I am able to turn the pressure down to say 45/25, I would have to take air out of the tank because it’s currently around 33 psi. Would I set it to 23 psi? And do you set the switch and then adjust the air, or the other way around?

I’m happy to change the little gauge. That’s no problem, but just so I understand, that gauge doesn’t tell the pressure switch to do anything right? It’s just to let us know (visually) what’s going on. Even without a gauge the pressure switch should still work, it’s just there would be no way for us to know what psi the switch opens/closes. Do I have that right?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Attachments

  • e7571d46d320b682109b52dba177a818.jpg
    e7571d46d320b682109b52dba177a818.jpg
    68.3 KB · Views: 0

zak77

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 18, 2014
Messages
1,351
Location
Monson, MA
so if your well is 500' with a static water level when full at 40', and your casing is 8" then you have 1288 gallons of water. Thats a lot of water so i dont think you're running out. My bet is a leak somewhere so you may have to dig the whole line up plus check everything down the casing. Considering how the pressure wont push 50psi is another sign. Try a 30-45 setting to have the pump at least shut off.
 

American Locomotive

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 8, 2017
Messages
10,928
Location
Rhode Island
so if your well is 500' with a static water level when full at 40', and your casing is 8" then you have 1288 gallons of water. Thats a lot of water so i dont think you're running out. My bet is a leak somewhere so you may have to dig the whole line up plus check everything down the casing. Considering how the pressure wont push 50psi is another sign. Try a 30-45 setting to have the pump at least shut off.

Yield: 5 GPM
Original Pump Placement: 400 feet
Steady state draw down: 400 feet

If your draw down distance is hitting the level the pump is at, he really does not have a 5 GPM well. Plus, he said that the pump was dropped down to 480 feet later on. If the well is consistently drawing down to the level the pump is at (~480'), that means the pump has to contend with 480' of head before it even fills the tank. 480' of head is 208 PSI by itself! It's very possible the water level in his well is so low that the pump just can't generate the necessary pressure to overcome the height.

But I agree - the line to the pump should definitely be checked for leaks.
 
OP
R

racerboy

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 7, 2005
Messages
458
Location
New Jersey
I don’t think my static water level is 40’ anymore. It takes an ice cube between 12-14 seconds to hit water.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!
Top Bottom