M. Klein & Sons

[JjKk40]

Snagged this pair of needle nose cutters at a local antique store. Manufacture code of 3rd quarter 1942. Im just gonna rub it down good with oil and call it good. I love the black oxide/rust patina!

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Nice find.

 

[MisterEd]

OK, what question do I ask . . . ? Is this a Klein 201 Lineman's Pliers without a logo? The E-EC (1947) suggests it.

 

[Ole Slewfoot]

Sure look a lot like mine in post 5

 

[MisterEd]

Sure look a lot like mine in post 5

Agreed. Have one of same, but is it common to have no Lineman logo?

 

[d42jeep]

Perhaps there was a problem with the stamping process when your pair was made. Some of mine are stamped very lightly while others are quite clear. With the dating on the handles they were certainly made by Klein.
-Don

 

[MisterEd]

With the dating on the handles they were certainly made by Klein.

Probably a valid point. We've found some where we had to know it was a Klein to be able to interpret the logo. Just another Garage Journal oddity.

Thanks for the response.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Or it was a contract tool. Sold in a kit sold by a retailer that was branded with the retailer's markings by the retailer on the packaging.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I was happy to snag these 302-6 curved nose pliers this morning at the flea. I have a pair from Utica but they're NOS wartime in a NOS wartime Utica box. I would use these. Not thrilled about the proprietary etchings but dollar table buyers can't be choosers. Little bit later than I like to collect (MNE = 1st Quarter 1964). 1963 cat excerpt from IA/ITCL.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I picked these up this morning at the flea. They look like tapered duck bills, or else long flat nose. They have smooth jaws. No knurling. We still have not solved that triangle or delta symbol, but the "E I I" translates to 4th qtr 1955.

 

[Provincial]

Triangle tools? Utica.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Klein was never part of the Triangle Corp's Utica-Bonney-Herbrand triumvirate conglomeration. In fact, it is still family owned.

EDIT: Also, I should've been less specific. Other symbols appear in front of the three letter date codes, and as far as I know, we have no explanation for any of them.

 

[Zrxrunner]

Lemme be the conspiracy guy!! Electrician tools... unions... freemasons... all seeing eye triangle....its the key to unlock some national treasure with the right tool! Lolol

 

[Provincial]

Here is more evidence of a Bonney/Triangle connection to Klein. I believe that they supplied tools to Klein under contract. Those pliers may also be supplied by Utica under contract, but the time frame may precede Triangle.

Notice the bottom two combos.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I can see Bonney and Herbrand supplying wrenches for Klein branding, pre- and post-conglomerate Triangle Corp., Jock. Utica supplying pliers, to a major pliers maker, seems less likely to me. But, hypothetically, even if that were so, it doesn't help explain the other symbols, such as the circle, that precedes some of the date codes. As I mentioned. I'm inclined to think these prefixes are organic to Klein and mean something else, die codes perhaps. But I'll keep an open mind if you find something more substantive.

 

[RoninB4]

As I mentioned. I'm inclined to think these prefixes are organic to Klein and mean something else, die codes perhaps.

-Never saw a "die code" in any of the dies I worked on when I worked in the tool room for Klein. Code marking like that are usually for injection molds and denote the cavity for multi-cavity molds, makes it easier to track down or shut off an offending part of the mold. That doesn't mean it didn't happen in this case. It could have been used if there was more than one die used in production, an old vs. new die, or even a spare die sent to some outside stamping house that would better allow them to track down quality issues. The circle could have even been part of a date stamp (common) that was neglected/abandoned at some point. Oddities like that are fairly common in die stamping. Interesting piece of info and a sharp eye picked that one out.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Thanks, RoninB4. I should've stopped at, "...organic to Klein and mean something else," or stayed more vague, such as "...organic to Klein and mean something else to the manufacturing process." My use of the term "die code" in this case was just to refer to a generic manufacturing code, made with a die, that we typically find on plier handles or wrenches, etc. from other mfgrs.

Whatever the symbols are meant to signify, there are several different ones, they always appear in front of the date code, they are extraneous to the date code, they appear during both date code systems (the early numeric M-YY format, and the later MKLEINCORP QYY format), and, they have never been explained by Klein or anyone else.

Since you worked at the plant, albeit in the tool room, not on the floor, maybe you could offer some potential possibilities.

If you scroll through the photos in the thread, you will see the following:

0-4-37, where the "4-37" signifies April 1937, and the "0" is one of the unexplained codes
2 4-27, where the "4-27" signifies April 1927, and the "2" is one of the unexplained codes
/_\ KER, where the "K E R" signifies 2nd Qtr 1949, and the delta symbol is one of the unexplained codes
O LER, where the "L E R" signifies 3rd Qtr 1949, and another unexplained "O" symbol/code
X EEK, where the "E E K" signifies 4th Qtr 1942, and the "X" symbol is one of the unexplained codes
O-L-EK, where the "L-EK" signifies 3rd Qtr 1942, and another unexplained "O" symbol/code again
O-E-EC, where the "E-EC" signifies 4th Qtr 1947, and another unexplained "O" symbol/code again
/_\ MNE, where the "MNE" signifies 1st Qtr 1964, and another unexplained delta symbol/code
/_\ EII, where the "EII" signifies 4th Qtr 1955, and another unexplained delta symbol/code

EDIT: If someone more adept than me knows how to make an actual delta symbol, please let me know and I will edit my post.

 

[MisterEd]

Heavily used and still ready to work.
Klein 213-9NE pat'd "High-Leverage Plier N E Type (Streamlined)"
Date code? "0 KI 0" = 1958?

 

[d42jeep]

I found a Klein speeder Phillips screwdriver that is a good match for the slotted speeder screwdriver I found back in March. I was amazed how well the slotted speeder worked for installing face plates.
-Don

 

[four.cycle]

1921

 

[four.cycle]

1921

 

[d42jeep]

Found a pair of longnoses at a garage sale this morning. They seem to have a 1962 date code.
-Don

 

[Ole Slewfoot]

Some observation on markings;

Up thread I believe it was d42 x EEK mark...looks a lot like the x on some duro tools of the era.

Found some 1926 side cutter in a friend's garage, and both handles are stamped CV.

Searching this thread ebay and Google, I only find this on 1926 and earlier 1927 pliers, but I couldn't find any 1925 example.

I'd assume they are crowing about a new chrome vanadium compound. The die only las a year?

Anyone have other CV examples?

 

[four.cycle]

1921 Klein Tool pocket guide NOW available for download at International Tool Catalog Library!

 

[Ole Slewfoot]

I only see the 1921 order form

 

[four.cycle]

You're seeing the cover letter that came with the catalog.
The catalog is there:
1921 Klein Tool pocket guide and cover letter

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Up thread I believe it was d42 x EEK mark...looks a lot like the x on some duro tools of the era.

It's @Ricky Joe 's. When I first saw it, I thought it was the result of the X being on the end of a round die stamp. The wartime Duro-Chrome marking AA popularized as a "Circle-X" is actually a DC monograph, with the D and C back-to-back, or a "Circle-DC" to use that kind of format to name it, giving the appearance of an X, but when you look at them closely, the lines that look like an X are not straight. The X prefix on RJ's "EEK" pliers are an actual X. Interesting idea, though.

 

[d42jeep]

I picked up these Klein lineman’s pliers this afternoon. I was surprised by the early date code.
-Don

 

[d42jeep]

I found a rusty pair of Klein groove joint pliers yesterday. Here they are cleaned up.
-Don
Here is a before picture.

 

[Jammer1329]

Found these at an Estate Sale this AM. Never seen the logo in this orientation. Brief research makes me think these are quite early? Only markings (besides owners initials) are a 9 or 6, and a V that may or may not be factory.

 

[S-K Tool Fanatic!]

Hand full of tools, I have an elechickens knife around somewhere.
-Tommy

 

[genog]

I love their polished combination wrenches

 

[d42jeep]

I found a rusty pair of Klein groove joint pliers yesterday. Here they are cleaned up.
-Don
Here is a before picture.

I found another rusty pair Friday and cleaned them up.
-Don

 

[S-K Tool Fanatic!]

Got this sweet bag full of folding rules for $5

 

[Private Lugnutz]

The vintage tool gods are just taunting me now. Yet another Klein tool (Model # "214-8") with yet another date code ("LIN" =1958) preceded by the unsolved mysterious triangle or delta symbol ("/_\"). This one has a secondary part number ("8T-7542"), electric penciled on the jaw, probably the customer's system.

Also, where are the electricians? I've seen one of these specials before, with the attachment, probably right here on GJ, but may not have been Klein, may have been Bell System, and another OEM, or it was Klein but not posted here, and I don't remember enough to even search more proficiently. Looked through a few vintage M. Klein catalogs on IA/ITCL. Not listed. Is it a skinner? Factory? Mod?

 

[d42jeep]

Although newer than many of my Klein tools, these estate sale finds from yesterday will be added to my box of Klein tools.
-Don

 

[d42jeep]

This 3/8” nutdriver may have been made by Klein.
-Don

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Since there seems to be some renewed interest in Klein on a recently bumped and short-lived second Klein thread, I'm going to repost this from upthread in this Klein thread. Maybe we can get some traction on it...

ODD UNEXPLAINED SYMBOLS

Several different symbols or forge codes appear in front of some date codes. They are extraneous to the date code. They appear during both date code system eras (i.e., the early numeric M-YY format, and the later MKLEINCORP QYY format), and, they have never been explained by Klein or anyone else.

If you scroll through the photos in the thread, you will see the following:

0-4-37, where the "4-37" signifies April 1937, preceded by an unknown "0"
2 4-27, where the "4-27" signifies April 1927, preceded by an unknown "2"
/_\ KER, where the "K E R" signifies 2nd Qtr 1949, preceded by an unknown delta symbol
O LER, where the "L E R" signifies 3rd Qtr 1949, preceded by an unknown "0"
X EEK, where the "E E K" signifies 4th Qtr 1942, preceded by an unknown "X"
O-L-EK, where the "L-EK" signifies 3rd Qtr 1942, preceded by an unknown "0"
O-E-EC, where the "E-EC" signifies 4th Qtr 1947, preceded by an unknown "0"
/_\ MNE, where the "MNE" signifies 1st Qtr 1964, preceded by the unknown delta symbol
/_\ EII, where the "EII" signifies 4th Qtr 1955, preceded by the unknown delta symbol
/_\ LIN, where the "LIN" signfies 3rd Qtr 1958, preceded by the unknown delta symbol

If anyone has any information, please post it. Constructive speculation, informed hunches, and theories also welcome.

 

[d42jeep]

I have some tools I couldn’t figure out the date code so I immediately quit thinking about it.
My wife found this nice bag at this morning’s estate sale.
-Don

 

[Private Lugnutz]

My wife found this nice bag at this morning’s estate sale.

I saw that on the Garage Sale thread. What immediately struck me, with no small amount of envy, was how clean (or at least rustspot-free) it was compared to this one, bearing the very same part number, which I found at a flea market earlier this year.



I use it to keep my vintage Klein pliers separate from the vintage riff raff in my "general" pliers drawer.



Do you know anything about dating these? I noticed that yours has a more modern material pull on the zipper. Mine is leather, with a LENZIP zipper.



Who made your zipper?

This isn't the first time I have wondered about dating the bags. I have the much bigger Klein satchel bag, with the leather bottom, and the steel bars inside the hems of the opening at the top. I use that to keep all my bigger Bell System tools, belts and climbers in. I'm sure you know what I mean and probably have one. Everyone does! Here's mine tucked in with my Bell System stuff.



But occasionally I see these big satchels looking much newer and it makes me realize I have no understanding of dating any of them.

Recently, @four.cycle informed me of a long-running Klein thread up on the General Discussion Forum, stranded there from before the Great Divide. It has a lot of modern tools and talk on it, and I hate to mix metaphors, nuts, vegetables, and forums, so I completely forgot about it, but I may just have to surreptitiously spend some time up on that thread to see if I can figure it out.

Unless you or someone else knows or has a handy dandy guide or site to link where some other vintage collector already figured it out.