MAJOR Concrete issue! Options?

[Fav Onefour]

What is up with the section back right? I'm trying to understand why that looks like a completely different pour?

Anyhow, I'm wondering if a partial compensation might get you enough for a pour over the top. I know it's not the desired result, but maybe . . . The current slab is dang near on grade. The slab is already better than compacted fill. A little more height wouldn't be a bad thing if someone paid for the pour.

Jacking the building isn't bad. You should see how they build steel bins around here. The roof is done first, right at ground level. They keep jacking up the top as they add lower sections. Those bins can get dang tall, but the method is the same. It would be a similar principle by using multiple jacks to lift the building. I bet you could head down the road into farm country and find a bunch of those jacks to rent.

 

[NDJ]

I'm wondering if any of the people suggesting "Lawyering up" have ever done so ? And what did it cost you ?

 

[Fav Onefour]

I'm wondering if any of the people suggesting "Lawyering up" have ever done so ? And what did it cost you ?

I'm sorta familiar with those costs. I'm married to one and she has some stories. I can tell you anything that touches litigation will blow the costs out the roof. Don't go down that road.

I'm sure that anyone tied to this job knows all too well that there is a reachable solution without "Lawyering up". It would be foolish business. It also looks like the situation is going to be a finger pointing game with no one taking responsibility. I think there is some shared blame with a couple parties involved. 230' of pipe in the air for that pour is crazy. Someone made a poor call. They may also have been the party that made the decision to pour slop out the end. The plant should not have had any problems producing load sheets. Something isn't right at that end either. They'd be out of the discussion with decent follow up on proper mix. Seems suspicious to not have a good follow up on their end.
That all leads to suggesting a partial compensation with the parties involved. No one wants to tear it down and haul it away. No one wants to take that hit alone. Each of the parties will fight that end. They may collectively go for a partial reach into their checkbooks if it seems feasible. A little concrete from the plant, a little labor from the contractor, and a little set of jacks might just do the trick.

 

[Big Bad Dad]

The concrete company won’t give me the batch tickets. Ive asked several since the beginning of March and they dodge the question.

Next question is, who ordered and paid for the concrete? Did you order it and pay for the delivery? If so, you should be entitled to the tickets. Or was it bought and paid for by the contractor? If that was the case, he would be the concrete company's customer, not you. So they possibly feel they are not responsible for giving you the batch tickets, and don't want to piss of one of their regular customers by doing so. Tough situation.....

 

[frankd]

I would try and go after the ready mix company as well as the people that did the pour. Both will likely have insurance. I'd start with the concrete contractor and tell them that if they don't offer any good solutions, that you'll be taking them to court. It'll be tough to make an insurance claim if they don't share their insurance carrier information with you. But if you take them to small claims court, then they'll likely alert their carrier, who would get involved.
As far as actually hiring an attorney, I agree with some others that said it's not worth it. The attorney will cost you thousands of dollars and even if you win, you're not guaranteed to get your money. We've gone down that road twice with contractors. We have a lien against one for $13k (which we'll never see) and the second one actually paid up, which was surprising.

 

[billconner]

Unless you've required a performance bond, contractors generally do not have insurance for defective work.

 

[bb29510]

concrete companies in my area has sensors on all the valve, they can go back in history couple years and tell how many gallons was added at what time and by which valve, they can print out when he got there when he startted unloading, when he finish and when he left the job, what route he took and how fast he was driving, they got that batch ticket in the computer and what the ingredients was. so its really hard to get anything out of concrete companies, even got slump sensors on trucks

 

[ConCretin]

Uness you've required a performance bond, contractors generally do not have insurance for defective work.

Good luck convincing em of that.

 

[frankd]

Unless you've required a performance bond, contractors generally do not have insurance for defective work.

Some contractors GL policies will provide a sub-limit for defective work. But if the manufacturer is at fault for issue, it would likely a product liability coverage issue- which they will have coverage for (assuming they have insurance).
But if they don't seem interested in addressing the issue, I would still recommend the small claims court route so the OP can at least recoup some of the damages with really no out of pocket cost other than the time it takes to file the claims and the court fees.

 

[dcg9381]

I'm wondering if any of the people suggesting "Lawyering up" have ever done so ? And what did it cost you ?

$200-$500/hr. You'll pay a retainer to "get started" that will involve low end sending letters on the higher end to some cash up front to file a lawsuit.

DO NOT RECOMMEND unless you have a responsible party that has assets you can go after. The best attorney in the world cannot squeeze water from a rock.

If the concrete itself is defective, there may be some liability and pay-ability there.. But just off the cuff - and I'm no concrete guy, how to do you prove it's a defective mix over suggesting it's a slushy pour and the plant wasn't liable?

 

[FL Guy]

What is up with the section back right? I'm trying to understand why that looks like a completely different pour?

Anyhow, I'm wondering if a partial compensation might get you enough for a pour over the top. I know it's not the desired result, but maybe . . . The current slab is dang near on grade. The slab is already better than compacted fill. A little more height wouldn't be a bad thing if someone paid for the pour.

Jacking the building isn't bad. You should see how they build steel bins around here. The roof is done first, right at ground level. They keep jacking up the top as they add lower sections. Those bins can get dang tall, but the method is the same. It would be a similar principle by using multiple jacks to lift the building. I bet you could head down the road into farm country and find a bunch of those jacks to rent.

The new pad was poured up against a two year old pad that’s why you see the extreme color difference between two pads. What’s really odd, is the brown color of the new pad.

 

[Hank11]

What I'd do is to ask a bunch of people on the internet from all over North America with little to no knowledge of Florida contracting laws.

 

[billconner]

Good luck convincing em of that.

you are right.

 

[rayra]

A reasonable engineering fix might be to construct a new more robust footing that is offset from your current one by a couple feet. Trench and dowel behind and to one side of the structure and cut the existing slab and trench for the opposing side wall.
Then reinforce and pour the new footings, tied into the old slab. Then jack and move the building onto the new harder footings.

 

[Rusted Nut]

The new pad was poured up against a two year old pad that’s why you see the extreme color difference between two pads. What’s really odd, is the brown color of the new pad.

Have the concrete supplier come out and look at it and tell you why it is brown.

And yes, the last thing you want to do is get lawyers involved at this point.

 

[Big Bad Dad]

That weird brown color makes me suspect there may be too much sand in the mix. Or possibly the mix got contaminated with dirt?? Wow.

 

[PCustoms]

That weird brown color makes me suspect there may be too much sand in the mix. Or possibly the mix got contaminated with dirt?? Wow.

Wait, concrete is supposed to have cement in it?

I couldn't figure it out, but I think you nailed it. Mix was off or dirt/sand was pulled up during the pour.

 

[Sladeharrison]

I honestly think your best option is to just live with it.

If you're concerned about anchors pulling out, add additional ones. It's not like you're going to survive a hurricane regardless.

If the surface isn't hard enough... see if you can get a shallow (3") pour of 4,000# mix over the top.

It ***** that you didn't get what you paid for. But it will probably still meet your needs.

I agree it's best to keep the gub'ment out of your business. They will only limit your options.

Agreed. Unless your installing a 2 post lift in the future or a huge crack develops, I'd just live with it. Just increase your "other structures" part of your home owners insurance to more than cover a rebuild if a hurricane takes it out.

 

[Youngandfree]

I found video of the guys doing your slab.

High Tide boys!!! #R810 #concrete | MIchael Dee | MIchael Dee · Original audio

821 views, 18 likes, 6 comments, 8 shares, Facebook Reels from MIchael Dee: High Tide boys!!! #R810 #concrete. MIchael Dee · Original audio

www.facebook.com

 

[cliffcharb]

My $.02 as someone currently building a garage in SW Florida and as a small business owner with recent lawyer experience.
If you’ve already talked to the concrete guy and are getting blown off personally I’d live with it. For reference my garage specs (160mph) called for anchors spaced 32” max and embedded 8”. How’s that compare to yours? As others suggested I’d install additional anchors.
As far as a lawyer cost I’ve got about $7k into a couple responses and meetings due to a frivolous lawsuit brought against us.
You’d likely spend more fighting than the cost to replace without any guarantee you’d see a dime.

 

[BillK]

And we still havent heard what the contractor said when you called him.

 

[BarryWells]

Nice looking guys. Appalachian Americans... aka Hillbillies!

Hah. Bottletop... Valley Boyz

 

[bb29510]

most concrete trucks has sensors on the water valves, they know how many gallons was added, at what time and which valve. concrete companies are self insured, you not going beat a concrete company

 

[bb29510]

and very important, you sign the ticket that claims, once the concrete truck crosses the curb line, its yours

 

[FL Guy]

and very important, you sign the ticket that claims, once the concrete truck crosses the curb line, its yours

Must not be that important. They don’t have my signature on any ticket

 

[anomm701]

What I'd do is to ask a bunch of people on the internet from all over North America with little to no knowledge of Florida contracting laws.

******* alert

 

[FL Guy]

And we still havent heard what the contractor said when you called him.

Sorry, just saw this.
Contractor response "That is through the concrete company not me. I will contact them and let them know this for you."

 

[FL Guy]

Next question is, who ordered and paid for the concrete? Did you order it and pay for the delivery? If so, you should be entitled to the tickets. Or was it bought and paid for by the contractor? If that was the case, he would be the concrete company's customer, not you. So they possibly feel they are not responsible for giving you the batch tickets, and don't want to piss of one of their regular customers by doing so. Tough situation.....

Contractor paid for the concrete.
When I reached out to the contractor his response was "That is through the concrete company not me. I will contact them and let them know this for you."

 

[Hank11]

******* alert

Self identified.

 

[dougf]

Must not be that important. They don’t have my signature on any ticket

Oh, it's important. You and the contractor are on the hook for failing to sign/inspect upon arrival.

 

[Fatboy148!]

Oh, it's important. You and the contractor are on the hook for failing to sign/inspect upon arrival.

The OP is just the guy who wrote the check. That signature on his check and his on the contract with the concrete contractor (where the job and concrete performance spec were spelled out) are all that matter to him. Most homeowners have no idea who supplied the concrete for their projects.

 

[dcg9381]

Contractor paid for the concrete.
When I reached out to the contractor his response was "That is through the concrete company not me. I will contact them and let them know this for you."

Don't argue with him, but you wrote him a check. It's his **** in a sling. If he wanted you to buy your own concrete, he could have requested that.

 

[JWILLIE1977]

The course these residential "bad" concrete slab pours run always amuse me.

To me, the solution here is clear as day.
Can you live with the slab in this condition?
If yes. . then let it ride.

If no, then you have 2 choices -
#1 Remove and replace at your cost, with no further involvement by the contractor that already screwed it up once. If you use a different contractor. . . Make sure you have a (better) contract.

#2 You want the contractor to fix/replace his defective work. So, then the owner needs to pursue the contractor.
The owner has an agreement with the contractor. Contractor has an agreement with the ready-mix company.
The owner and the ready-mix company have nothing between them.

You have started your due diligence by having core samples cut and tested. There is obvious difference between cores taken from load #1, and core taken from load #2. Your lab did the right thing applying correction factors to the cores with less than 2:1 length to diameter ratio.

As I, and several others have mentioned, petrographic analysis would/should be your next step. The petro will give you more info to take to a lawyer.

The Petro will show what the issue is with the concrete. Too much water? Who put in the water? Well, that's between the contractor and the ready mix to fight out. Over finishing? Probably a contractor issue. Excessive/dirty fine aggregate? Probably a ready-mix problem.
Remember, your agreement is between you and the contractor.

It's not surprising that the ready-mix company will not provide copies of the batch tickets to you, as you didn't purchase the concrete. But, the purchasing contractor most certainly has rights to those tickets. And your agreement is with the contractor.

Long story short, if you aren't happy, lawyer up, and put the squeeze on your contractor.
I know it *****, and it's not going to be cheap, but it's the way it is. If the contractor is already dodging your communications, that's not a good sign.

Good luck, I hope this works out in your favor.

 

[JWILLIE1977]

If he wanted you to buy your own concrete, he could have requested that.

Just a side bar here.

In my experience, if the contractor is asking the owner to buy the concrete, it's a MAJOR red flag.

Contractor should always purchase the concrete.

 

[dcg9381]

In my experience, if the contractor is asking the owner to buy the concrete, it's a MAJOR red flag.

I don't disagree with that, but at least you know what concrete you're getting. Bottom line here is that the owner paid the contractor for concrete. That makes the contractor responsible for the product. I'm sure he's sweating it (the contractor). But "I'll let them know" is not an acceptable answer.