Menards vise apparently HF knockoff (pics)

[dwasifar]

On Saturday I broke my Irwin vise:



Looking for another affordable vise to replace it, I was going to go to HF for one of these for $129:



But then I saw Menards had what initially looked like the same vise for $119 plus rebate:



So I bought it there. But today I was at HF and looked at theirs, and it was immediately obvious that the HF vise was beefier and tighter. Strange as it may seem, I think whoever is making the Menards Masterforce vises is copying Harbor Freight.

I bought the HF vise and returned the Menards one, but I took some side by side pictures first. HF is light gray, Menards is dark gray.

The HF vise is slightly taller, the handle is longer and the spindle is fatter:



The HF jaw teeth are finer:



The HF lock down handles are beefier and are mounted on a slight bevel. The mounting ears are different:



The Menards slide is longer:



And the HF screw is noticeably thicker:



Not that specifications on Chinesium tools mean much, but the Menards vise specs claim a clamping force of 3960 lb to the HF's claim of 4950 lb.

Aside from the shorter slide, I think the HF takes it.

 

[liliysdad]

Well that’s like picking your favorite STD.

 

[dwasifar]

Well that’s like picking your favorite STD.

Not everyone can justify spendy vises. HF vises are not high end but they do have a reputation of being hard to kill and punching above their class.

 

[AA/FC]

I highly doubt one US based retail store is directing a Chinese factory to copy the design of another Chinese product that is sold in a different US based retail store. lol. Most likely you are seeing two different factories version of a specific model NAME BRAND vise. They are BOTH copies of "the real thing".

I do agree, one looks much better than the other.

 

[dwasifar]

That's possible too. If so, I suppose one of our resident vise fanatics will identify the source design shortly. EDIT: Perhaps Wilton 4550R.

It's also possible that Chinese Factory B is copying Chinese Factory A directly. I didn't mean to imply that Menards told their supplier to copy HF, though I can see how you came to that.

 

[RichWolfson]

It also may be that the same factory is making both vices to slightly different specifications including finish and branding.

///Rich

 

[dwasifar]

It also may be that the same factory is making both vices to slightly different specifications including finish and branding.

I doubt that. It would be stupidly expensive to set up tooling for two products just slightly different. Economy of scale suggests they would just offer one design to both customers. You could still be right, but it feels unlikely to me.

 

[neophyte]

If you have the extra “scratch”, purchase one of theDoyle cises from Harbor Freight.
-60,000 PSI ductile cast iron
-7700 lb. of clamping force
4-1/2” version with swivel base is currently $160.

4-1/2 in. Swivel Vise with Anvil and Pipe Jaws

Amazing deals on this 4-1/2In Swivel Vise With Pipe Jaws at Harbor Freight. Quality tools & low prices.

www.harborfreight.com

The weight is listed as 39lbs. Which is about what the Wilton 4-1/2” Tradesman vise weighs.
Other specs are similar as well.

The Doyle Hitch Vise is also 60,000psi ductile iron, but a slightly lighter design (weighs 30lbs.)

6 in. Hitch Vise

Amazing deals on this 6In Hitch Vise at Harbor Freight. Quality tools & low prices.

www.harborfreight.com

I think the only complaints with the heVier Doyle vises was that you should clean and regrease the vise before first use.

 

[Zewnten]

Well that’s like picking your favorite STD.

With all the vise hoarding by garage journal members the cost of used vises has skyrocketed, few people cam justify USA or European made prices

 

[liliysdad]

Not everyone can justify spendy vises. HF vises are not high end but they do have a reputation of being hard to kill and punching above their class.

Spendy? I’ve got two Wilton 300 swivels sitting in the floor of my shop that I have $75 each in.

On my work bench, I have Wilton 500 that I paid $250 for, with a work bench attached. After selling the bench for $300, I have negative cash invested.

On the other end of that bench, I have a Japanese Craftsman 5” that I paid $20 for, new in box, at an estate sale.

On my wiring cart, I have a US made 3-1/2” Craftsman I paid $15 for at an estate sale.

Good vises are everywhere, you just have to look.

 

[dwasifar]

Spendy? I’ve got two Wilton 300 swivels sitting in the floor of my shop that I have $75 each in.

On my work bench, I have Wilton 500 that I paid $250 for, with a work bench attached. After selling the bench for $300, I have negative cash invested.

On the other end of that bench, I have a Japanese Craftsman 5” that I paid $20 for, new in box, at an estate sale.

On my wiring cart, I have a US made 3-1/2” Craftsman I paid $15 for at an estate sale.

Good vises are everywhere, you just have to look.

How much time did you spend haunting garage sales and driving to estate sales to find those deals, though? You have to factor in the opportunity cost of spending your time scrounging.

 

[liliysdad]

The Wilton’s were all three bought via online auction. Didn’t take me any time. Entered my max bid and walked away.

I work full time plus more than some..and I still find time to “haunt” sales and chase leads. I’m too poor to buy good stuff new, and too broke to buy cheap **** at any cost.

 

[dwasifar]

Fine, whatever. You're right and everyone who buys anything else is wrong. Happy?

 

[lolaetype]

Spendy? I’ve got two Wilton 300 swivels sitting in the floor of my shop that I have $75 each in.

Are you selling them for that? If so, sign me up for one. Let me know the freight cost.

I used a no name vice for years and years, maybe 15, until I pounded on it one time too many and it broke. I then bought a HF vice that I broke while tightening it by hand. Took that back and bought a heavier HF vice that has held up well. If I stumble across a Wilton at the right price I'll probably buy it, but I have no pressing need.

 

[Madjik Man]

Spendy? I’ve got two Wilton 300 swivels sitting in the floor of my shop that I have $75 each in.

On my work bench, I have Wilton 500 that I paid $250 for, with a work bench attached. After selling the bench for $300, I have negative cash invested.

On the other end of that bench, I have a Japanese Craftsman 5” that I paid $20 for, new in box, at an estate sale.

On my wiring cart, I have a US made 3-1/2” Craftsman I paid $15 for at an estate sale.

Good vises are everywhere, you just have to look.

The only way to win this argument is by selling me one of those Wilton 300s for $75

 

[dwasifar]

Are you selling them for that? If so, sign me up for one. Let me know the freight cost.

I used a no name vice for years and years, maybe 15, until I pounded on it one time too many and it broke. I then bought a HF vice that I broke while tightening it by hand. Took that back and bought a heavier HF vice that has held up well. If I stumble across a Wilton at the right price I'll probably buy it, but I have no pressing need.

I see what you did there.

 

[liliysdad]

Of course they aren’t for sale for that….that’s how I find my other projects.

I understand it’s not everyone’s jam, buying used stuff. This thread, however, started with a cheap, broken vise. It was replaced with another cheap, imported vise.

Many say that quality stuff costs too much. It doesn’t cost too much, it’s just not as easy as rolling down to Harbor Freight. It takes effort to get good stuff cheap.

 

[chris142]

Why don't you go on market place,Craigslist,or offer up and find a good vise? Or at least a name brand one?

 

[liliysdad]

Within 100 miles of me on FB marketplace, and I live 100 miles from nowhere.

They are out there.

 

[dwasifar]

Within 100 miles of me on FB marketplace, and I live 100 miles from nowhere.

They are out there.

I already said you were right. Why are you still arguing? You're not my wife.

 

[whateg01]

Spendy? I’ve got two Wilton 300 swivels sitting in the floor of my shop that I have $75 each in.

On my work bench, I have Wilton 500 that I paid $250 for, with a work bench attached. After selling the bench for $300, I have negative cash invested.

On the other end of that bench, I have a Japanese Craftsman 5” that I paid $20 for, new in box, at an estate sale.

On my wiring cart, I have a US made 3-1/2” Craftsman I paid $15 for at an estate sale.

Good vises are everywhere, you just have to look.

Here in Wichita, aircraft workers drive the prices of tools to crazy levels. Deals can be found but it takes a lot of patience waiting and then you have to be on the ball to reply to the ad first.

Granted, this one is still listed, but this is typical of here.

 

[liliysdad]

I already said you were right. Why are you still arguing? You're not my wife.

Oddly enough, a discussion thread involves more than two people at times….and can often elicit responses that aren’t direct to the original question.

 

[whateg01]

I understand it’s not everyone’s jam, buying used stuff. This thread, however, started with a cheap, broken vise. It was replaced with another cheap, imported vise.

I now have several good vises but the work horse in the garage is a cheap hf vise I bought about 20 years ago. The anvil is cracked from me using it to shrink tucks when I started getting into sheetmetal but it still does real vise stuff like a champ.

 

[liliysdad]

I now have several good vises but the work horse in the garage is a cheap hf vise I bought about 20 years ago. The anvil is cracked from me using it to shrink tucks when I started getting into sheetmetal but it still does real vise stuff like a champ.

But…why?

 

[whateg01]

But…why?

Mostly because it is in the most convenient place and it does the job. I still use the anvil to beat on stuff but with a chunk of 1/2" plate on top. The other vises, old reed and Columbian, don't have a place to pound on stuff with a hammer.

 

[rockettauto]

I'd guess a Wilton too which is made in China. Happens all the time , brand name transfers mfg and the new Chinese OEM starts overproducing and selling outside the brand, or just gives the design to a sister company.



Navigating vises is a bit of a minefield right now since brand name means nothing.

 

[dwasifar]

Oddly enough, a discussion thread involves more than two people at times….and can often elicit responses that aren’t direct to the original question.

Yes, and also elicit replies from people who hijack threads to espouse their tangential points of view in that manner.

But none of that matters, because I am so remorseful I can barely find words to express it. You have completely and totally convinced me that there is absolutely no substitute for searching all over hell and gone to buy other people's used tools. Nothing else will do. It doesn't matter if I need it NOW; I should have thought of that earlier and gone looking in advance. In the future, I will hang my head in shame every time I take the easy way out and buy a tool from the store, warranties and convenience notwithstanding, and I encourage everyone reading this thread to examine their consciences too.

 

[Jim greengo]

Probably built by same supplier.

 

[Pinemarten]

Vises seem to cause bad behavior.

 

[whateg01]

Vises seem to cause bad behavior.

So do vices! Are vises a vice?

 

[Pinemarten]

We need to get a grip on these vise vices...............vice-grips perhaps?

 

[1982fxr]

I still have yet to see an exact copy of a hf vise under another name. Same designs, yes. EXACT same vise, never.

 

[bwringer]

If you have the extra “scratch”, purchase one of theDoyle cises from Harbor Freight.
-60,000 PSI ductile cast iron
-7700 lb. of clamping force
4-1/2” version with swivel base is currently $160.

4-1/2 in. Swivel Vise with Anvil and Pipe Jaws

Amazing deals on this 4-1/2In Swivel Vise With Pipe Jaws at Harbor Freight. Quality tools & low prices.

www.harborfreight.com

The weight is listed as 39lbs. Which is about what the Wilton 4-1/2” Tradesman vise weighs.
Other specs are similar as well.

The Doyle Hitch Vise is also 60,000psi ductile iron, but a slightly lighter design (weighs 30lbs.)

6 in. Hitch Vise

Amazing deals on this 6In Hitch Vise at Harbor Freight. Quality tools & low prices.

www.harborfreight.com

I think the only complaints with the heVier Doyle vises was that you should clean and regrease the vise before first use.

Yeah, those Doyles are quite legit.

I need a multi-purpose vise for working on motorcycle forks. You can swivel the jaws sideways and pad the pipe jaws with thick leather to make fork work super-convenient.

Anyhoo, if I ever break my ancient grungy generic Chinese vise, I'll mosey to the corner HF and grab this one.

5 in. Multi-Purpose Vise with Anvil

Amazing deals on this 5In Multi-Purpose Vise W Anvil at Harbor Freight. Quality tools & low prices.

www.harborfreight.com

 

[engineer2]

I bought a Menards SKU: 243-1490 Chinesium vise for $70. It's been fine for garage use.
Got it after my cheap Wilton vise broke (the model that's known to break).

 

[American Locomotive]

I don't think it's really a knock off of HF. There are a thousand faceless Chinese (and Taiwanese) tool manufacturers that all make copies of semi popular designs. Think of all the different companies making "Honda Clone Engines".

Menards purchased theirs from Faceless Company A, HF purchased theirs from Faceless Company B. Both companies have patterned their vise from the same base example.

Odds are your Irwin was made by one of those same faceless companies - Irwin just paid for them to modify the molds with their name.

 

[dwasifar]

I don't think it's really a knock off of HF. There are a thousand faceless Chinese (and Taiwanese) tool manufacturers that all make copies of semi popular designs. Think of all the different companies making "Honda Clone Engines".

Menards purchased theirs from Faceless Company A, HF purchased theirs from Faceless Company B. Both companies have patterned their vise from the same base example.

Odds are your Irwin was made by one of those same faceless companies - Irwin just paid for them to modify the molds with their name.

No doubt. As someone pointed out in another thread, looking at the broken casting, it might as well have been made of cheese. Still, it did last me ~13 years.

There is a book, Poorly Made in China, which gives an insider's look into how these factories operate and why "quality fade" is such a problem.

 

[Madjik Man]

Within 100 miles of me on FB marketplace, and I live 100 miles from nowhere.

They are out there.

200 mile round trip.

My truck gets 18 mpg.

Gas is $4 a gallon.

Add another $45 on to the price.

 

[zendriver]

I know I will be taking slaps to the face, for this comment, but aren’t most bench vises all
design pretty much the exact same way?

Maybe there is more than one vise factory in China, and one decided to make things slightly different.

 

[Mr_B]

The Doyle range looks a usable vise with pretty large strong proportions and half decent ductile iron .
With a coupon I could see it being a sensible cost convenient store buy .
I always gone used on vises as tend find more than need easily from 50 bucks to 200 bucks .
Had a cast steel 8" taiwanese vise used at sensible money and that done well but jaw plate screws and amount of ledge support under jaw plates are far from strong proportions of the real old vises .
I would avoid paying good dollar on grey cast iron store offerings as you be breaking them and wasting more money/time in the long run .

 

[liliysdad]

200 mile round trip.

My truck gets 18 mpg.

Gas is $4 a gallon.

Add another $45 on to the price.

Yes, each of them is exactly 100 miles away.

Still a better deal.