Above 1200 Sq/FT Middle Tennessee barn build

[Diesel Dan]

As stated, planning a new build around Columbia, TN.

Looking for recommendation on contractors in the area.

-excavation, site prep, driveway
-concrete
-insulation, spray foam
-and of course construction contractors

I won't be doing any of the major building this time. Mixed emotions on that, like doing the work but have limited tools, time and no help with this build.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Diesel Dan]

Think we have narrowed down the size to a 40x72x16 package.

Leaning towards footers, stem walls and slab for the base. Stem walls to be 16" above finished floor grade so total interior head room will be 17.5' and allow for proper two story living quarters of 40x24 and shop will be 40x48. 3 bedrooms, 2 bath upstairs and everything else down stairs.

Construction, I'm leaning towards 2x6-16 stick built, 7/16 osb, vinyl D5D siding, trusses 24" O/C, 7/16 osb, synthetic underlayment and premium pro-rib metal roofing. Second floor will be supported with 14" engineered joists(16" O/C) that if need be can free span the entire 24' distance.

Building site is 12.3 acres of rural ground, municipal water at the road(+), soil is very good for traditional septic system Driveway will be ~350' long with a 12-14% up hill slope, flooding not an issue!

While planning with the wife I said there will be compromises along the way but the second floor balcony off the master bedroom overseeing the shop is mandatory, as I will have a firemans pole to get to work quickly.

 

[MacTexas]

Are you building a house with attached barn or a barn with living space enclosed?

 

[Diesel Dan]

I guess it depends on the structure and how one looks at it.

If I go with post frame construction it would be a barn with living quarters but if I go with stick framing would it be 2 story house with a really, REALLY large attached garage/barn?

Initially I was doing a post frame build.
Building inspector had no issue with it put pointed out that the way I was going to due it used a lot of lumber. He said he'd just stick build it. So it got me thinking and I have been doing material lists and stick framing with 2x6s looks like it will come out cheaper.

When you post frame with lam columns you have 3 2x6s every 8', rows of 2x4 or 2x6s for exterior and interior wall girts. If you book shelf the cavities you have multiple rows of 2x6s. Plus a 2x6 stick wall has a double row of 2x6 for top plate where as a post structure will need a double row of 2x12s. A building as tall as I want will have wall deflection issues under wind load with standard 2x4 wall girts from my research too.

Just things I'm considering as I go.
Next week we should be signing the papers on the land and then I can get a dozer in there to cut the drive in and level a building pad. Then get multiple contractors to the site to take figures and options.

 

[sbosecker]

As stated, planning a new build around Columbia, TN.

Looking for recommendation on contractors in the area.

-excavation, site prep, driveway
-concrete
-insulation, spray foam
-and of course construction contractors

I won't be doing any of the major building this time. Mixed emotions on that, like doing the work but have limited tools, time and no help with this build.

Thanks in advance.

Diesel Dan,

Sounds like a great project! Good luck.

I have a good friend that lives in Franklin, TN which is not too far from you. He may have some contacts... I'll check with him today.

EDIT: Here's his response...

Wish I knew some local contractors but if I did maybe our house wouldn't be falling down around us...

Sorry that didn't work out.

Best regards,

Scott

 

[Diesel Dan]

Here are some pics.
Building site cleared off, still have a 3'+ slope to deal with.
Drive partially rocked, 12-14% grade
Doing some brush removal at back of propert.

 

[FTG-05]

I'm 50 miles south of you - good luck with your build!

 

[manwithtools]

I'm in Lebanon, about 80 miles northeast. You will love it here, we moved from northern Indiana 20 + years ago. If you need anything in the way of tools or equipment drop me a PM. I've got a friend in your area that I could send your way with things you need, he and I work about a mile apart.

Best of luck.

Dan

 

[purplezr2]

I would use 1/2 sheeting on the roof, 7/16 doesn't feel very solid when walking on it.

 

[manwithtools]

I would use 1/2 sheeting on the roof, 7/16 doesn't feel very solid when walking on it.

This is in Tennessee, snow loading is almost non existent. 7/16 will be fine under a metal roof. Really is not even needed, could just use 1 x 4 purlins with rafters on 24" centers.

 

[SkinnyPedal]

Near Knoxville Tn. over here. have a friend here that does crete at really good prices but not sure if he would travel out there. I will ask him and get back to ya.

Funny you mentioned the second floor balcony and fire pole. I have plans for a small self supporting 4x7 balcony over looking the shop, in my build and the fire pole inside the man cave from the loft.

 

[bjcouche]

Pay close attention where you place your building. You mentioned you had a sloped property.... Try to NOT build your building into the side of a hill. If you have to, try and slope the property on the uphill portion so that your building is on a flat surface. If you need a retaining wall, make it a separate wall behind the building. Don't do what I did and build the rear wall of the building into the hill such that the rear wall is mostly underground. Doing this will greatly increase your build costs on the excavation and concrete costs. My total shop cost more than doubled due to this.

Brian

 

[Diesel Dan]

Don't do what I did and build the rear wall of the building into the hill

Yeah that I'm not doing, site isn't sloped that bad to have to. If you look at the pic with the dozer you can see a 3' ledge. That is 10' from the building and will be cut back farther when I get my tractor down here.Another 15-20 feet or so farther is a good sized ditch someone cut in at one point. It is bigger than need be but catches all the run-off before the shop. In time when I get to see how much water flows I'll re-grade the swale to a more manageable contour.

 

[Diesel Dan]

Not much too update.
Still waiting to get the driveway rocked. Conctractor waited too long and missed his window and dump couldn't make it up the drive today. Says he may try tomorrow but even if he can tailgate that load it will still take another and wet weather coming for mon/tues. Need to get this done, starting to wash out in spots already.

 

[Disney]

So you decided on stick built?

 

[matt_i]

I lived in Columbia, TN for 2 years. My suggestion is to pay strong attention to stormwater management and runoff paths. There are nasty storms that roll thru every spring and they have the potential to dump a *lot* of water. I lived in the bottom lands, and I had a nearby quaint little creek 6" deep that became a 5 foot deep raging river if the rains got going hard. Truly amazing to witness the power of nature. As such, any ground that you cut can erode quickly, I'd recommend somethng short of kudzu vines to stabilize it back as dilligently as possible.

The soil also has a lot of shallow rock, this can lead to problems with lightning strikes as for some reason it forces the electrical energy out sideways instead of just shunting deep into the earth. I had a lighting strike several hundred feet away and blew out equipment that was termed "rock solid".

Funny it snowed 3x the winter I was last there in 2010. Maybe 6" total but I smiled with amazement as the Maury County plow trucks (they had 3 I think at their muni yard) rolled by my house. They often sprayed saltwater on the roads from a tanker truck if freezing rain or wintry mix was predicted for the next day. The mix dried and left the residual salt behind.

Another possibly interesting story. I worked with a guy who built "high end" houses as a side business with his brother doing most of the actual work and he most of the design and permitting. I asked him for the number of a concrete guy who would do a "good quality job". So the guy came out and I was talking to him and he was showing me pictures of buildings he poured for Kenny Chesney to house his tour buses. The quote I got for concrete slab and footings (no grading or dirt work) was about 1.5x the cost of the actual steel building I was going to build, in the range of $10/sq ft, I was expecting around 0.5x the cost, and ultimately this is what stopped me to regroup as I did not have quite the budget of ole Kenny. And probably underestimated the cost of labor as well.

 

[Diesel Dan]

Yes on the stick built. Just paid the $3K+ in permits.
Will be 2x8-16 for living quarters and 2x6-16 for shop area.

Water mitigation is already taken care of and we are 50' above the road so I'm not too concerned about flooding. Planning on a 6-8 ground rod system for the electrical.

Kudzu, plenty of that for me to remove. Need to get ahold of the extension office and find out what kind of native grass that grows good. Thinking about zoysia grass for around the building if I can get it to take hold.

 

[Diesel Dan]

Made the 3hr, one way, trip to menards to pick up my 11% off goodies.
210 sheets of osb, 3 special order 60x48 egress windows. Old truck got a work out.
Then I had the fun of unloading all the OSB by hand.

Nothing getting done today with the rains that showed up.

 

[Diesel Dan]

Been 2+ weeks since I lined up a septic installer and gave him the permit, still no show. Highly recommended by the sanitation engineer and he is a local person.

Been 2 weeks since a framer looked at what I wanted, said easy straight forward, no reply.

Over a week since the most promising GC with no response so I txt him back, sold his house and moving a few hours away, this week!

Excavator wanted to close out the bill for the driveway but I needed more stone so I asked where he gets it from. Said they deliver it just let him know what I need, WTF. I've been telling him what I need and only get 1/2, at least he only billed for work done even if it is less than I needed.

There were more no shows, no replies and ones that showed up with no response.

They joys of moving into a new area!
At this rate I'm gonna have to bust out the shovel and pick to start hand digging the footers.

 

[west_perf]

Wow that's crazy. Good luck with your build, post up some more pictures when you can.

 

[Diesel Dan]

Project starting to take on that cursed feeling.
Has been going on 3 weeks for the septic so stopped at his house to check progress. He died last week unexpectedly.

 

[Diesel Dan]

Well moving forward, even if slowly.
Wife was down to visit so I had her hold the grade stick while I was digging. Rented a mini-excavotor for the weekend. Site cleanup is next, 4 hours of a skid steer should handle moving the dirt away from the area. Some hand clean up of the trenches and then rebar placement can begin.

Ended up with 3 course step down so the lower footer was at a level I was happy with in regards to topsoil depth.

 

[Diesel Dan]

Have some updates, internet service is spotty at the camp ground and old laptop did not want to play nice so finally bought a new one.

Footers, 3 rows of #4 rebar


Concrete poured at 5" slump with #4 up turns every 4', code requires none.
Luckily it rained the next day and kept the footer wet for a couple days.


Walls up and done, checked walls and are straight and square.


Installed a splitter box for drain field, not required by code. Also used 36" chambers instead of pipe and stone.


J-bolts welded to rebar extending to footer.


Working on the sub-slab utilities.

 

[Diesel Dan]

Putting the 6.5TD to work
36' camper hauled 650 miles.


Multiple skid steers and mini-excavators hauled.

 

[not enoughsmoke]

looking good i am in Lynnville maybe 15mins from ya

 

[madoc1]

beautiful area. did you have any help with the block work? it's looking good. can you post a sketch of the design? good luck, it looks you are finally off to a good start.

jim

 

[twizted1]

Nice looking build getting started! Lets hope you can turn the corner and get subs who can do what they say they can with no unfortunate circumstances.

 

[LXCam]

What a gorgeous location. And good luck with your contractors, it sounds like you decided to take on a ton of work yourself just to make some headway.

 

[Diesel Dan]

Thanks guys!
After several weeks of delays I finally had a block laying crew do the blocks in 1.5 days. Would have been done in one day but had a rain delay.
Block layers run $1.25-1.50 per block from what I found. In the previous picture showing the long J-bolts you can see the blocks that I notched for a horizontal run of rebar to make a "collar" around the top. Notch is in the second course down from the top.

Wife likes the property and can't wait to bring her Pygmy goats down.
Here are a few sketches, don't have a scanner so we'll see how they turn out.

View from the road.
Dashed line shows separation between living/shop areas.


View facing up hill. Two 36" man doors and one 8x8 insulated garage door with vertical track.


Driveway view.

 

[matt_i]

I am not sure if your overhangs are to scale, but my advice would be to extend them, there will be plenty of rain I lived north of Columbia on Carters Creek Pike for a couple of years, beautiful countryside.

I had a strange experience interviewing contractors, if they found out where I worked, which was a local auto manufacturing center, the prices always went up.

 

[Diesel Dan]

Over hangs are 12" all sides.

Funny you should mention that, I've had a few people down here warn me of a "yankee tax" and I should get Tennessee plates as soon as possible. However I hear that happens all over for auto workers. My cousin, who works at flint metal center, ran into the same thing with getting his well fixed. When the first well guy found out he worked for GM he was quoted $5K for a new well. Second local contractor charged him ~$500 for new foot valve and dip pipe and didn't care where he worked.

Update, poured almost 6 yards of grout Friday. Core filled the 3 tallest walls, short wall every 4' where J-bolts are and door openings. Was worried the grout was starting to stiffen up in the truck since it was on board 3-4 hours. One person can do it but is a not enjoyable.

 

[Diesel Dan]

Waiting on concrete now.

Looking for new crew, one I had lined up said about a week....3 weeks ago.

So far have 150+ tons of #57 fill for around $3500
Labor to spread and compact---$500, local guy. Was quoted as high as $1500 by others.

Figuring 40 yards so a good $4,000 for concrete and labor looks to be in the $4000 range as well. However I'm leaning towards using a pumper truck so no machinery drives on vapor barrier. One guy wanted to drive the loaded 80,000lb truck onto the plastic and rebar.

One contractor recommended pumper truck with 4,000 psi "pepper" mix, not familiar with that term. I'll be able to keep a lower w/c ratio with a pump truck. Most people want to water it down to rake it out, not happening.

I have 10 mill poly sheeting but not sure it meets astm rating for use between concrete and aggregate base, more phone calls to be made.

Also put two coats of drylok paint on the exposed interior blocks before pouring floor.

 

[Diesel Dan]

Well yet another set back.
Just days from pouring the floor I'm out another contractor. Was lining up the concrete plant and pump truck when I was informed he didn't think he could pour my slab to my standards.

This was after talking with him on/off for a couple months since he did the footers. We had some productive conversations as well, different ways to increase flatness/levelness, how to deliver the concrete--which lead me to getting a pump truck btw. So another month down the drain.

Met with another contractor that sounded promising.
After first meeting I asked for license/insurance/bonding info, "not licensed" was the response and didn't comment on insurance....off to make more calls again.

From my research the state of TN requires a masonry license only if bidding on jobs exceeding $100K, fine but no insurance? Sounds like you are pushing potential liabilities onto the homeowner.

 

[Diesel Dan]

The saga continues.
Went with the largest commercial contractor in Columbia. Estimator came out, emailed me a quote for $4,000 labor. She told me no pump truck needed, asked multiple times about that. Was to use a laser screed to level it and "whirly bird" for hard trowel finish. After she talked with the project person she changed the terms of how they would do it.

First a pump truck would be required, at my expense.
Second, they would not return to address work "considered unreasonable".

So I responded: Using your laser screed, power trowel and float techniques can you deliver a FF25 finish? As she stated to me they usually deal with engineers and specs.
Response: Laser set for height, hand screed and "close to" my FF25 spec.

I asked to talk with the project person since she obviously doesn't know what type of equipment they use but was told I don't need to.

And then the 'that's how we operate and that's our offer' comment was off putting as well.
---------------------------------------
Fast forward to yesterday, and lined up with another contractor provided through the redimix plant. Should be pouring this Friday/Saturday. 4,000 psi mix, pump truck, he has a 6' float, going to bring two riders to finish, one with pans and the other with blades.

Now for the hard work for me.
We walked the site and the 10 mil white poly has totally disintegrated over the last 2-3 weeks. So I'm cutting all the rebar ties, pulling all the steel and laying down some black 6 mil poly over the white. So what I've read is true, at all cost avoid the "white" poly as it deteriorates much faster than the black. There's $250+ and lots of my labor down the drain due to that contractor backing out.

 

[LXCam]

Wow what a story, that blows. I hope the next guy pans out for you. And did I read that right, you don't need a contractors lic below a 100k in TN? Here in Ca that limit is $600.

 

[Diesel Dan]

Yeah, 100K is what I found when researching it.

It gets better.
Couple months back my truck developed a bad exhaust leak at the LH manifold/crossover.
Ordered a new manifold, 4" exhaust and new crossover. Installed the manifold and exhaust in the campground parking lot. Couldn't brake loose the 3 studs under the turbo without heat. Took to 3 shops including the GM dealer and nobody would work on it, rusty truck from up north I was told. I ended up fabbing 1/2 the new crossover to the old just to get me by. IN THE F-ing CAMPGROUND!

2 weeks ago truck starts loosing power/shutting down while driving. Already have a remote FSD and that is what it felt like so I ordered another from Rockauto and popped it on, no better. What I found with my limited tools and stuff from a hardware store was no fuel PSI to the filter housing. Lift pump was a couple years old so put another on, no better.

Drove to Chevy dealer and told them I'm not getting enough fuel, problem is before the pump/in tank etc. Oh, we don't work on 6.5L Diesels. It's a basic fuel supply issue! Nothing to do with the engine! 1.5 weeks later, 2 addition lift pumps later, sending unit sock and new line(which they didn't want to make) and still no pressure. They handed me the keys and said here ya go. Your truck must be cursed, told you we don't work on 6.5s.


Back to the campground.
Found kinked rubber hose at the tank, leaking compression fitting before the lift pump.
Adjusted the kink issue and tightened the fitting, that's it and now truck runs fine. WTF!

1.5 weeks to diagnose and replace a rusted steel fuel line about 5' long and couldn't even do THAT right? And it totally screwed up my plans for the weekend for renting equipment too.

Somedays I wish I was an alcoholic.

 

[Diesel Dan]

Poured concrete yesterday, finally.
The black 6 mill poly I put under the living quarter area seems to have held up decent. The white 10 mil under part of the shop already broke down. It was cracking when they walked on it but nothing I could do at that point.

Waiting on a copy of the invoice but was a total of $10,775.
40-45 yards, more like 5-6" thick, pump truck was ~$1300, each load had mid range water reducers and 2% retarder added and was a 4000 PSI mix. Two 48" riding trowels, one with pans. Also $300 for skid steer rental to load/unload the trowels, most jobs they do have some kind of equipment on site for that.

Started showing up at 4AM and had a crew of 12 guys. IIRC, they started leaving around 1:30-2PM. Wow was that slab HOT. My water supply was 15 Gallons/minute and for the first couple hours it was all I could do to keep the surface damp, let alone get any standing water. When I did get 1/2-1" of standing water it was so hot you didn't want to keep you hand in it.

Had about 4 hrs of sleep, was there at 4am with them and left for food at 4PM, came back and was there until 9PM keeping an eye on it. Long hot day.

Will post some pics when I get extra time. Ran a GoPro for the first time and still haven't had a chance to review any footage.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

Looking forward to this build!!

 

[madoc1]

wow! what a story. sure hope the rest goes more smoothly. fyi, i learned a few years ago about white vs. black plastic with zip ties. white will definately break down much faster for some reason if exposed to sunlite. good luck on this nice project.

jim

 

[Diesel Dan]

The start of the pour, 12 man crew.


Finish machines at work.



Floor flooded, lasted for about 1.5 days then concrete had some shrinkage, pulled away from walls, pipes and control joints etc. Now covered with plastic.