shocwav3
Well-known member
You have the gift my friend. Reading through your posts are like online lessons, not just the eye candy. Thanks for sharing.
MP&C Shop Projects
- Thread starter MP&C
- Start date
Thanks!
A bit more progress last night on the front end fitment. We've taken the hood off and reinstalled so much that one of the captive nuts came out. Once we fished it out of the hole, it still looked intact, so it will get reinstalled. It was proving difficult to pull back up into the hole, so a bolt was threaded into the nut and the fancy dent puller clamped onto the bolt head. One pull and it was back in place..
It was tacked in place, and to prevent a reoccurrence with the other three, they received tack welds also.
Next, we were working on the hood to cowl gap. We noticed towards the ends of this gap it tended to tighten up. The highly calibrated gap feeler gauge was used...
Here the gap tool had no chance, we need to reform the rear fold on the ends...
The wedge anvil was used, along with a x-large cold chisel that had a radiused edge formed for the more curvaceous profiles, to reform the rear fold inward for this tight area..
Gap looks much more consistent there, a quick look at the passenger side shows it needs reforming as well, but not nearly as much. Getting late, so we'll finish this up next time...
A bit more progress last night on the front end fitment. We've taken the hood off and reinstalled so much that one of the captive nuts came out. Once we fished it out of the hole, it still looked intact, so it will get reinstalled. It was proving difficult to pull back up into the hole, so a bolt was threaded into the nut and the fancy dent puller clamped onto the bolt head. One pull and it was back in place..
It was tacked in place, and to prevent a reoccurrence with the other three, they received tack welds also.
Next, we were working on the hood to cowl gap. We noticed towards the ends of this gap it tended to tighten up. The highly calibrated gap feeler gauge was used...
Here the gap tool had no chance, we need to reform the rear fold on the ends...
The wedge anvil was used, along with a x-large cold chisel that had a radiused edge formed for the more curvaceous profiles, to reform the rear fold inward for this tight area..
Gap looks much more consistent there, a quick look at the passenger side shows it needs reforming as well, but not nearly as much. Getting late, so we'll finish this up next time...
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I wish I had your patience for taking photos as you go.
Always seem to be under too much pressure to finish something and its only when its covered in paint do i remember to take pics
Still awesome watching you work dude
Always seem to be under too much pressure to finish something and its only when its covered in paint do i remember to take pics
Still awesome watching you work dude
I fully understand that, it is fantastic, not just for your customer, but for the rest of us too.
Due to the nature of our cars (being fairly cheap to begin with) some customer struggle to see the time and detail that goes into them to make them complete. We really do need to start documenting it like you do.
Please don't ever stop doing what you are doing and sorry for not posting too often.
Due to the nature of our cars (being fairly cheap to begin with) some customer struggle to see the time and detail that goes into them to make them complete. We really do need to start documenting it like you do.
Please don't ever stop doing what you are doing and sorry for not posting too often.
Pete, good to hear from you again. It would be good to see some of the work out of your shop!
More progress today, part of our hood fitment has been hindered by the hinges. When closing the hood they didn't want to close properly and the back corners of the hood had to be pushed down by hand. Don (acardon) on Trifive website suggested replacing the original shouldered rivets with some bolts and sleeves. We hadn't heard anything promising with the reproduction hinges, so what did we have to lose.
First to come up with a hinge spring removal tool...
Now to disassemble the hinge and remove the rivets..
Some 3/8-16 rivnuts were used to make some spacers, and used the lathe to trim them to size, allowing a few thousandths clearance. All of the rivet holes were drilled out for the spacers..
Here are the results, click on the pic for video
Thanks much to Don for the suggestion!
More progress today, part of our hood fitment has been hindered by the hinges. When closing the hood they didn't want to close properly and the back corners of the hood had to be pushed down by hand. Don (acardon) on Trifive website suggested replacing the original shouldered rivets with some bolts and sleeves. We hadn't heard anything promising with the reproduction hinges, so what did we have to lose.
First to come up with a hinge spring removal tool...
Now to disassemble the hinge and remove the rivets..
Some 3/8-16 rivnuts were used to make some spacers, and used the lathe to trim them to size, allowing a few thousandths clearance. All of the rivet holes were drilled out for the spacers..
Here are the results, click on the pic for video
Thanks much to Don for the suggestion!
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Shoulder Screws
Those are available from mcmaster.com I used them along with some brass bushings on a hood hinge, It moved silky smooth.
http://www.mcmaster.com/#shoulder-bolts/=u7m16z
Those are available from mcmaster.com I used them along with some brass bushings on a hood hinge, It moved silky smooth.
http://www.mcmaster.com/#shoulder-bolts/=u7m16z
I unfortunately lost my shop dude, but between small projects in the garage and working at a friends garage, we are producing some very competitive machinery atm.
The 200hp K-Series Midget:
And attached is the latest weapon:
More info can be found on the facebook page:
https://www.facebook.com/CorryMotorsport
The 200hp K-Series Midget:
And attached is the latest weapon:
More info can be found on the facebook page:
https://www.facebook.com/CorryMotorsport
Attachments
Kevin54
MEMBER EMERITUS
36racin
Active member
Robert,
I'm way about 15-18 hours away from you but the more I watch your handy work the more I wish my car was in your shop. Any chance you would take in a long distance client? Or do you know someone with your skills further down south somewhere? Can't wait to see this car finished.
Todd
Kevin54
MEMBER EMERITUS
I can't speak for Robert, but people have their cars done all of the time that live states away from where the car is being worked on.
Pete, sorry to hear about losing the shop, but sounds like you are still staying busy! Hopefully with less business headaches to deal with..
Todd, I would suggest trying to find someone local to you. Visit a couple local car shows and ask around for suggestions. Or visit Metalmeet or Allmetalshaping type websites to find someone in your area. I can't think of anyone in La area, but that doesn't mean they don't exist. You'd quickly eat up about 2K just in shipping charges, that would go far in getting your quarter squared away by someone local.
joe49
Well-known member
Was your hood hinge repair a complete success?
Tonight we worked on some more front end pieces. The drivers side inner fender extension had been slightly mangled, looks like perhaps a tire ran over road kill or something and threw it up, breaking some spot welds.
Kyle had already worked on straightening the lower bracket, and after I re-welded the broken spot welds, he got into some metal bumping to repair the rest of the mangle in the sheet metal.
Meanwhile, with the hood fitment about done it was time to weld up the rear corners after the rear flanges in the corners had been persuaded forward to provide consistent gap across the back edge of the hood. The Crud Thug was used to clean out the inside corners for welding..
A copper flat bar was trimmed to fit the inside corner snugly to help manage weld penetration where inside cleanup wouldn't be needed.
Welded and dressed....
Then the peak on the hood was addressed, after peaking the front of the hood awhile back I had yet to fix the low areas. A consistent crown would be essential on provide good support for the hood, and there were a few low spots along the peak. To be able to match up the low areas, a magnetic rule was placed on the underside and top. After sighting the peak and finding the lows, they were marked and the measurement notated.
Flipping the hood over, the same dimensioned areas were persuaded downward. A screen door tool was used, but proved to be rather ineffective.
Time to break out the heavy duty implements, a rounded/radiused cold chisel and a dead blow hammer, along with the small shot bag held against the opposite side....
That worked better, and showed dramatic improvement. Still a bit more to do, but we're running out of time this evening, so we'll finish this up on Saturday..
Kyle had already worked on straightening the lower bracket, and after I re-welded the broken spot welds, he got into some metal bumping to repair the rest of the mangle in the sheet metal.
Meanwhile, with the hood fitment about done it was time to weld up the rear corners after the rear flanges in the corners had been persuaded forward to provide consistent gap across the back edge of the hood. The Crud Thug was used to clean out the inside corners for welding..
A copper flat bar was trimmed to fit the inside corner snugly to help manage weld penetration where inside cleanup wouldn't be needed.
Welded and dressed....
Then the peak on the hood was addressed, after peaking the front of the hood awhile back I had yet to fix the low areas. A consistent crown would be essential on provide good support for the hood, and there were a few low spots along the peak. To be able to match up the low areas, a magnetic rule was placed on the underside and top. After sighting the peak and finding the lows, they were marked and the measurement notated.
Flipping the hood over, the same dimensioned areas were persuaded downward. A screen door tool was used, but proved to be rather ineffective.
Time to break out the heavy duty implements, a rounded/radiused cold chisel and a dead blow hammer, along with the small shot bag held against the opposite side....
That worked better, and showed dramatic improvement. Still a bit more to do, but we're running out of time this evening, so we'll finish this up on Saturday..
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More progress today, some of the factory hardware for the inner fender and inner fender extensions used sheet metal screws and clips that had been spot welded on. We plan on using machine screws, so the clips were drilled out for 1/4-20 rivet nuts.
Kyle used the BF Goodrich installing tool. First the rivet nut is threaded onto the tool for full thread engagement..
Next, the allen wrench is held stationary, and is also held to stabilize the tool perpendicular to the work piece. The ratchet wrench adds the rotational movement where the "jack screw" draws up the rivet nut, similar to installing a pop rivet..
While he was doing that, I used some transfer punches to add the holes to the recently repaired inner fenders for the grille hardware...
Then we knocked off early and made a speed run to Annapolis for Jalopyrama. Here are some of the sights:
Kyle used the BF Goodrich installing tool. First the rivet nut is threaded onto the tool for full thread engagement..
Next, the allen wrench is held stationary, and is also held to stabilize the tool perpendicular to the work piece. The ratchet wrench adds the rotational movement where the "jack screw" draws up the rivet nut, similar to installing a pop rivet..
While he was doing that, I used some transfer punches to add the holes to the recently repaired inner fenders for the grille hardware...
Then we knocked off early and made a speed run to Annapolis for Jalopyrama. Here are some of the sights:
The Migmaster 250 has left the building.....
Sold it this past weekend on CL, time now to consolidate, where the old machine was a two-story deal, the new one will be a three story. In order to take up less floor space, I need to incorporate the Miller 211, the Hypertherm Tig, and the Snap On dent puller, and two bottles:
Starting with the base, some 1-1/2 square tubing makes up the frame. This stuff was free, and as with most free stuff, it isn't. Kyle spent most of the time in the shop this evening media blasting rusty square tubing that has been sitting outdoors for a number of years. He also learned a bit more of mig welding..
The Tig will go on the bottom, and it has some mounting holes on the bottom side...
So some 3/4 square stock was used to make some rails for the Tig, along with some holes to tie in the front end..
To be continued....
Sold it this past weekend on CL, time now to consolidate, where the old machine was a two-story deal, the new one will be a three story. In order to take up less floor space, I need to incorporate the Miller 211, the Hypertherm Tig, and the Snap On dent puller, and two bottles:
Starting with the base, some 1-1/2 square tubing makes up the frame. This stuff was free, and as with most free stuff, it isn't. Kyle spent most of the time in the shop this evening media blasting rusty square tubing that has been sitting outdoors for a number of years. He also learned a bit more of mig welding..
The Tig will go on the bottom, and it has some mounting holes on the bottom side...
So some 3/4 square stock was used to make some rails for the Tig, along with some holes to tie in the front end..
To be continued....
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Great updates Robert! The detail work on the wagon you're doing is fantastic. As others have said, it is great that you take the time to photo document your efforts and share them. It certainly is appreciated. I must admit, I am a bit jealous of your apprentice. What an excellent opportunity he has working with, and learning from you.
Hi, I've learned a lot from your posts on this board. I have a question on Roloc sanding discs. I want to order some for working on my charger and am not sure which to get for General stripping and weld smoothing etc. all of the work you have done here. I am assuming 3" is a good general size. Can you tell me what type and grits that you use?
Anthony, welcome to the site!
As a refresher, here is a grinding video I did for plug welds. Grinding the welds on a weld seam will be similar, but I wait to do any final sanding until the end, to do it all at once. On a weld seam with planishing individual weld dots, the primary objective in grinding is to get the weld proud (on BOTH sides of the panel) out of the way for planishing the next set to be welded in place. Plus, weld on top of weld tends to make the welds harder, for more work in planishing or grinding. So working as you go will be beneficial...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2WHT_zMOE8
For grinding any welds I like to start with cut off wheels for grinding purposes as they will last a bit longer than sanding discs. Once the weld is dressed down to just above panel height, then switch to a sanding disc. This will give a bit more life to your sanding discs. As to why the cut off wheels and not another option, they give you a minimal contact patch, for less heat buildup. A flap wheel or 4-1/2 sanding disc may work great on thicker steel, but IMO they have no business on sheet metal as you risk overheating the metal, causing more panel distortion. Next, they give the best un-obstructed view of what you are doing to help prevent any errant grinding of the parent metal to the sides of the weld. A flap wheel or 4-1/2 sanding disc hides more of what you are grinding, so more of a **** shoot as to whether or not you are thinning the panel thickness excessively.
For the cutoff wheels, I recommend getting some that are rated for stainless steel. You can buy the cheap HF or swap meet cut off discs, but after using them you will have a brown haze from all the resin floating in the air. They just do not last and disintegrate much too quickly. I don't have time to change out discs all day long, so spending the extra money for stainless rated discs has shown to last much longer, much less change-out time wasted, much less (if any) brown cloud haze, and in the end, less money spent.
Examples of cutoff wheels that I use, note stainless rating...
For the sanding discs, I believe 3M, Norton, Sait and others also make the abrasive discs for the roloc style arbor. Again, the quality brands I've found will tend to last longer. Personal preference, but I think 36 is too coarse as any straying off the weld and it is going to be that much more damaging to the parent metal.. 60 is about as coarse as I'd go on automotive sheet metal. I typically use a 60 or 80 grit in finishing the welds.
On the attachment style, I have used this version before, but have experienced far too much of sanding discs flying across the room:
These seem to not have that issue....so this roloc "style" is what I would recommend:
As you can imagine, anything you can do to improve your methods to limit the amount of grinding you do will only help. That's why I constantly mention welding wire types, and stress consistency in all the processes. By getting to a point of almost Sheldon OCD, you can attain good penetrating welds but limit the excessive weld size by maintaining consistency in weld processes (heat, length of time, etc.) The -7 wire I mentioned (as well as the EZ Grind), while a bit more expensive, planishes and grinds easier. More importantly, it lays flatter, so once your methods start to become more consistent you will have less "waste" in a weld proud that gets ground off, less consumable used in grinding and sanding, and less time that it takes to do it in. So in most of these up front expenses, there is normally a tradeoff that makes any additional expense more beneficial if not cheaper in the long run.. I'm not saying to rush out and buy the most expensive, but buying the cheapest rarely is.....
For paint or other coating removal, there is also an open mesh style disc that works well, but most of what I'm doing is with bare steel, so I have only used them sporadically. But they are a good option if one doesn't want to use media blasting. As with any disc in the sheet metal environment, watch your pressure and speed to prevent excessive heat buildup.
As a refresher, here is a grinding video I did for plug welds. Grinding the welds on a weld seam will be similar, but I wait to do any final sanding until the end, to do it all at once. On a weld seam with planishing individual weld dots, the primary objective in grinding is to get the weld proud (on BOTH sides of the panel) out of the way for planishing the next set to be welded in place. Plus, weld on top of weld tends to make the welds harder, for more work in planishing or grinding. So working as you go will be beneficial...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2WHT_zMOE8
For grinding any welds I like to start with cut off wheels for grinding purposes as they will last a bit longer than sanding discs. Once the weld is dressed down to just above panel height, then switch to a sanding disc. This will give a bit more life to your sanding discs. As to why the cut off wheels and not another option, they give you a minimal contact patch, for less heat buildup. A flap wheel or 4-1/2 sanding disc may work great on thicker steel, but IMO they have no business on sheet metal as you risk overheating the metal, causing more panel distortion. Next, they give the best un-obstructed view of what you are doing to help prevent any errant grinding of the parent metal to the sides of the weld. A flap wheel or 4-1/2 sanding disc hides more of what you are grinding, so more of a **** shoot as to whether or not you are thinning the panel thickness excessively.
For the cutoff wheels, I recommend getting some that are rated for stainless steel. You can buy the cheap HF or swap meet cut off discs, but after using them you will have a brown haze from all the resin floating in the air. They just do not last and disintegrate much too quickly. I don't have time to change out discs all day long, so spending the extra money for stainless rated discs has shown to last much longer, much less change-out time wasted, much less (if any) brown cloud haze, and in the end, less money spent.
Examples of cutoff wheels that I use, note stainless rating...
For the sanding discs, I believe 3M, Norton, Sait and others also make the abrasive discs for the roloc style arbor. Again, the quality brands I've found will tend to last longer. Personal preference, but I think 36 is too coarse as any straying off the weld and it is going to be that much more damaging to the parent metal.. 60 is about as coarse as I'd go on automotive sheet metal. I typically use a 60 or 80 grit in finishing the welds.
On the attachment style, I have used this version before, but have experienced far too much of sanding discs flying across the room:
These seem to not have that issue....so this roloc "style" is what I would recommend:
As you can imagine, anything you can do to improve your methods to limit the amount of grinding you do will only help. That's why I constantly mention welding wire types, and stress consistency in all the processes. By getting to a point of almost Sheldon OCD, you can attain good penetrating welds but limit the excessive weld size by maintaining consistency in weld processes (heat, length of time, etc.) The -7 wire I mentioned (as well as the EZ Grind), while a bit more expensive, planishes and grinds easier. More importantly, it lays flatter, so once your methods start to become more consistent you will have less "waste" in a weld proud that gets ground off, less consumable used in grinding and sanding, and less time that it takes to do it in. So in most of these up front expenses, there is normally a tradeoff that makes any additional expense more beneficial if not cheaper in the long run.. I'm not saying to rush out and buy the most expensive, but buying the cheapest rarely is.....
For paint or other coating removal, there is also an open mesh style disc that works well, but most of what I'm doing is with bare steel, so I have only used them sporadically. But they are a good option if one doesn't want to use media blasting. As with any disc in the sheet metal environment, watch your pressure and speed to prevent excessive heat buildup.
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E12-535iTurbo
Well-known member
What is your oppinion on using TIG for working on sheet metal opposed to MIG? You would have (more/)easier control over the amount of filler you add. Perhaps better limiting the amount of grinding etc you need to do.
Tig or O/A are a better option in giving you a softer weld, especially if using a no-fill fusion weld process discussed earlier in this thread. They are a bit challenging when you have impurities on the panel surface or wide gaps, as they tend to burn the gaps wider if your feed doesn't keep up. But as far as eliminating the grinding altogether, if you can master the perfect fitup and trim with no gaps at all, then the fusion weld is the way to go. Practice and consistency will get you there. One day I hope to use it more extensively as well..
1953mercury
Well-known member
Nice score on the clock. Being a Ford guy I would love to run across one of those. Mike
Worked some more on the welder cart tonight. Started by adding the front casters.....
A cross brace was added under the center line of the 2 bottles...
12 gauge will be used to form a tray under the bottles...
Support bracket added for Mig welder:
Next time we'll add the bracket for the dent puller...
A cross brace was added under the center line of the 2 bottles...
12 gauge will be used to form a tray under the bottles...
Support bracket added for Mig welder:
Next time we'll add the bracket for the dent puller...
56vette461
Well-known member
Ditto on the cart. nice look. Gotta love the Miller 211. I bought mine two years ago and have nothing but praise for it's versatility.
Thanks guys.
Another item I picked up at the auction yesterday, this is a crescent wrench rebuild kit that came out of a now closed hardware store. New jaws, thumbwheel/gears, and even vise grip springs (which I actually need a couple). Not items you're likely to see at a big box store..
Another item I picked up at the auction yesterday, this is a crescent wrench rebuild kit that came out of a now closed hardware store. New jaws, thumbwheel/gears, and even vise grip springs (which I actually need a couple). Not items you're likely to see at a big box store..
Strouty
Well-known member
I like the cart, I am going to be making one myself. So I will watch the master and see if I can learn a thing or two.
AHotRod
Well-known member
Excellent craftsmanship, very well done.
Glenn
Glenn
More progress on the welding cart tonight, the rear axle was made from a piece of angle and two 3/4-10 bolts..
Rear bottle tray made from some 12 gauge, and welded on using about 3/8 diameter plug welds..
Top shelf added along with some gussets made of 12 gauge..
Bottle relief and pull handle added....
Rear bottle tray made from some 12 gauge, and welded on using about 3/8 diameter plug welds..
Top shelf added along with some gussets made of 12 gauge..
Bottle relief and pull handle added....
Strouty
Well-known member
Looking great. Is this just for the 211?
I am standing behind you while I type this.
I am standing behind you while I type this.
Strouty
Well-known member
I like it, I have been thinking about using one for my 211 and the plasma cutter, but I am not sure yet. The 211 is pretty heavy with a full spool in it. If you were to make a cart that was to go outside (level gravel) would you use pneumatic wheels or just big solid wheels. I think I know the answer based on the fact that we are melting metal together, but I am curious anyways.
aggierailroad
Well-known member
Very nice. Do you find the Snap On dent puller to be a lot better than a typical hand held unit?
I've never tried one of the hand held types to be able to give you a comparison. This one uses the "throwing star" consumables instead of welded studs. So you can pull a dent, twist, weld/reattach elsewhere, and pull again. I do like the heating tip attachment, it gets used quite a bit..
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BigMike782
Well-known member
More progress this evening on the welder cart, these studs are added to make use of the bottle bracket that came off the old welder. My brother in law had borrowed it at one time, and it came back with the fancy bracket. He retired the ratchet strap I had around the two bottles. This worked pretty well, so rather than reinvent the wheel.... Reminds me, I have some other things needing finishing I should lend him...
Then a bracket for the clip is added to hold the Mig torch..
Holders for the various cables....
.....and a test fit before we throw some paint on it...
Looks like I have some room left, may have to add one more....
Then a bracket for the clip is added to hold the Mig torch..
Holders for the various cables....
.....and a test fit before we throw some paint on it...
Looks like I have some room left, may have to add one more....