MP&C Shop Projects
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BORING HOP YARD
Well-known member
Throwback Mountain Dew
Reminds me of the "Coors" beer runs we used to make as a 19 year old kid in Oregon. Oregon didn't sell Coors, but Idaho did. We call our buddies to see who wanted to invest in the run. We would drive straight through buy cases and bring them back and sell them enough to pay for the trip. Glad you were able to score your favorite refreshment and get it back across the state line.
Reminds me of the "Coors" beer runs we used to make as a 19 year old kid in Oregon. Oregon didn't sell Coors, but Idaho did. We call our buddies to see who wanted to invest in the run. We would drive straight through buy cases and bring them back and sell them enough to pay for the trip. Glad you were able to score your favorite refreshment and get it back across the state line.
xtremek
Well-known member
Pics are showing and I love the radio flyer. I've modded out 2 wagons and a wheelbarrow.
Looking at the bottom side of the hood, all of the structure uses a radius where the parts intersect, so we may as well follow suit.. Holes were cut in some 19 Gauge and corners cut out..
Corners TIG welded and welds dressed..
The area our brace will cover is abraded so we can get it covered with epoxy primer before installing the brace.
Brace is media blasted to prep for epoxy primer, and test fit to the hood.. Once the epoxy sets up a couple days we'll get the brace welded in..
Here are some older pictures of the car just to show what we're working on...
Corners TIG welded and welds dressed..
The area our brace will cover is abraded so we can get it covered with epoxy primer before installing the brace.
Brace is media blasted to prep for epoxy primer, and test fit to the hood.. Once the epoxy sets up a couple days we'll get the brace welded in..
Here are some older pictures of the car just to show what we're working on...
txvwnut
Well-known member
Hoods gonna be slick. I think it needs a version of a grabber hood scoop instead of the open hole.
zmotorsports
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Beautiful workmanship on the underhood rib Robert. True craftsmanship right there.
Thanks Mike!
About done with the hood, time to put it together.
Before welding in place, some NVM Dampening Material from 3M is used, so dabs were added to the bottom side of the hood skin where the brace flanges would rest.
16 gauge cold rolled steel is used under the brace as a heat block for welding. The brace Is clamped, then tacked in place.
The seam is TIG welded in short beads and checked the outside hood skin for heat, let cool and continued in that fashion. Welds were dressed on flat areas of flange, those left will likely get a bit of filler to match the radius contours found elsewhere.
A video shows the entire underside...
.
About done with the hood, time to put it together.
Before welding in place, some NVM Dampening Material from 3M is used, so dabs were added to the bottom side of the hood skin where the brace flanges would rest.
16 gauge cold rolled steel is used under the brace as a heat block for welding. The brace Is clamped, then tacked in place.
The seam is TIG welded in short beads and checked the outside hood skin for heat, let cool and continued in that fashion. Welds were dressed on flat areas of flange, those left will likely get a bit of filler to match the radius contours found elsewhere.
A video shows the entire underside...
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Also how far away do you keep your rare earth magnets from your welds when using o/a? Using my Henrob torch, l had them about an inch away, but they lost their magnetism. They were 1/2 inch in diameter but strong enough to hold what l was welding while l tacked them together.
Thanks again for your expertise.
Thanks again for your expertise.
I did the welding here using the TIG. When using magnets I'll normally keep them 1/2" or better away from the weld arc.. Normally...
I think if you see a TIG arc wandering about where normally it doesn't, then the magnet is likely too close. I don't know that it would have an effect on O/A torch weld. The heat may affect the magnets, but I haven't noticed it with these rare earth ones I use. (Look up Cup-26 on the applied magnets web site)
I think if you see a TIG arc wandering about where normally it doesn't, then the magnet is likely too close. I don't know that it would have an effect on O/A torch weld. The heat may affect the magnets, but I haven't noticed it with these rare earth ones I use. (Look up Cup-26 on the applied magnets web site)
Thanks Robert
Robert,
I'm trying to practice **** welding 19 gauge Sheetmetal with my Henrob/Dillon/Cobra torch. I'm using the smallest tip like the youtube videos suggest. I have a low pressure oxygen regulator, and a Smith acetylene gas saver. I set it up with a slightly carborized flame again like the youtube videos suggest. I get 2 or 3 spots welded when the acetylene gas flow drops and the flame on the pilot light on the gas saver gets smaller??? My acetylene regulator is a smith and only a couple years old. I also have flame arrestors. Do l need a "special" low pressure regulator for acetylene with this torch? I also seem to remember you picked up a small Megs torch. How do you like it?
Thanks
Reid
I'm trying to practice **** welding 19 gauge Sheetmetal with my Henrob/Dillon/Cobra torch. I'm using the smallest tip like the youtube videos suggest. I have a low pressure oxygen regulator, and a Smith acetylene gas saver. I set it up with a slightly carborized flame again like the youtube videos suggest. I get 2 or 3 spots welded when the acetylene gas flow drops and the flame on the pilot light on the gas saver gets smaller??? My acetylene regulator is a smith and only a couple years old. I also have flame arrestors. Do l need a "special" low pressure regulator for acetylene with this torch? I also seem to remember you picked up a small Megs torch. How do you like it?
Thanks
Reid
It sounds to me like an issue with the regulator or gas saver. I did not like the Henrob for simple fact I found it cumbersome and difficult to maneuver given pistol grip and heavy hoses.. Pistol grip seemed to require you to hold it in some convoluted manner, elbow up like a chicken wing, out of position. Using the Meco torch is night and day different, especially using the miniature lightweight hoses. and BTW, using it with my old victor regulators I bought 20 years ago.. Where before I dreaded even breaking out the henrob, I look forward to gas welding now. We actually used it last night to gas weld a fender being made for a quarter scale tractor..
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I bough a used henrob several years ago because l thought with it being shorter than the standard torch it would be easier to use - less wobble plus oxygen savings. I am finding it is awkward to use if you can't turn what you are welding to a comfortable position. It doesn't seem to be working out so well
QwikKotaTx
Well-known member
What kind of car is that little hatchback? Doesn't look quite like a Vega.
QwikKotaTx
Well-known member
Interesting. And I thought I knew my Mopars!
Pressingonward
Well-known member
Interesting indeed. My brother has a Plymouth Arrow pickup; I didn't realize there was a car with the same name. They look cool, a lot like the 70s Toyota Celica, which in turn looks like a mini fastback Mustang.
Nice work on the hood support!
Nice work on the hood support!
mannydantyla
Well-known member
Hi Robert, I'm wondering if you could give me some advice?
I'm working on widening/stretching/flaring the fenders on my '67 VW project (you might have seen it on instagram) and I employed some "pie cuts," pulled out the sheet metal to where I wanted it, and then welded it back together with about 1/4" maximum gap to fill at the lip of the fender.
Somehow it wasn't enough clearance so I made a fourth pie cut and did the same technique.
However the end result is a little wavy and warped. Especially at the 3rd pie-cut from left to right.
What did I do wrong? Can it be corrected? How should I do it differently on the other side?
Do I just need to do more pie cuts? I could have done something like this but I wanted to pull the whole fender above the wheel outward, not just widen the flare.
Thank you!!
I'm working on widening/stretching/flaring the fenders on my '67 VW project (you might have seen it on instagram) and I employed some "pie cuts," pulled out the sheet metal to where I wanted it, and then welded it back together with about 1/4" maximum gap to fill at the lip of the fender.
Somehow it wasn't enough clearance so I made a fourth pie cut and did the same technique.
However the end result is a little wavy and warped. Especially at the 3rd pie-cut from left to right.
What did I do wrong? Can it be corrected? How should I do it differently on the other side?
Do I just need to do more pie cuts? I could have done something like this but I wanted to pull the whole fender above the wheel outward, not just widen the flare.
Thank you!!
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To flare that out the entire area needed stretching, or an increase in surface area. Here's a video by Peter Tommasini, note that in order to add a flare to a wheel opening (from flat) you stretch.
To add more flare, you stretch, or to make an easier job of it, make new flares. The lip pretty much locks things in place where you can not easily modify what is existing...
By welding, regardless of gap, you are shrinking and that is what caused your distortion. The area of your pie cut that goes through the concave area (where flare comes outward) will form more of a straight line when it shrinks, so the panel tends to come outward in the concave area at the weld. For the lip, with its convex radius around the opening, it will tend to pull the lip inward as it shrinks. I think if you look at the areas I mention you will see that exact damage.
At this point I think you are faced with making new wheel flares, cutting out the damage, and welding the new in "circumferentially" around the wheel opening, in most cases through the middle of the "low" of the concave. Welding perpendicular to the wheel opening will not produce a smooth, consistent transition, you will always tend to have the damage I mention adjacent to the weld shrinkage, so it will pull outward at the concave and inward at the lip. Only by welding around circumferentially will the shrinking have a consistent pull to either side that you can more easily planish CONSISTENTLY. Note in this picture I borrowed from the net.... the seam goes through the "low" part of the concave area. So when it pulls out slightly from the shrinking, it is more consistent than the perpendicular welds that you did and doesn't affect the shape of the quarter anywhere near as much. Also, by the weld shrinkage pulling the concave portion slightly outward, planishing (hammer) is done from the outside with flat dolly against the inside for a MUCH easier job of planishing and correcting any flaws...
.
To add more flare, you stretch, or to make an easier job of it, make new flares. The lip pretty much locks things in place where you can not easily modify what is existing...
By welding, regardless of gap, you are shrinking and that is what caused your distortion. The area of your pie cut that goes through the concave area (where flare comes outward) will form more of a straight line when it shrinks, so the panel tends to come outward in the concave area at the weld. For the lip, with its convex radius around the opening, it will tend to pull the lip inward as it shrinks. I think if you look at the areas I mention you will see that exact damage.
At this point I think you are faced with making new wheel flares, cutting out the damage, and welding the new in "circumferentially" around the wheel opening, in most cases through the middle of the "low" of the concave. Welding perpendicular to the wheel opening will not produce a smooth, consistent transition, you will always tend to have the damage I mention adjacent to the weld shrinkage, so it will pull outward at the concave and inward at the lip. Only by welding around circumferentially will the shrinking have a consistent pull to either side that you can more easily planish CONSISTENTLY. Note in this picture I borrowed from the net.... the seam goes through the "low" part of the concave area. So when it pulls out slightly from the shrinking, it is more consistent than the perpendicular welds that you did and doesn't affect the shape of the quarter anywhere near as much. Also, by the weld shrinkage pulling the concave portion slightly outward, planishing (hammer) is done from the outside with flat dolly against the inside for a MUCH easier job of planishing and correcting any flaws...
.
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mannydantyla
Well-known member
Thanks so much! The warping you describe is exactly what has happened. I also explains why, after finishing welding, the new tire clearance wasn't much better, wasn't what I thought it would be.
I can planish the concave section of the welds, which I have done, but at the lip, it's impossible.
So more pie cuts is not the answer? More cuts is more welding is more shrinking when I need to be stretching...
I can planish the concave section of the welds, which I have done, but at the lip, it's impossible.
So more pie cuts is not the answer? More cuts is more welding is more shrinking when I need to be stretching...
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Time for a long overdue update. I've had too much travel for the day job since the first of the year. Case in point, we've had more than one Taco Tuesday at the Sand Bar in Cocoa Beach...
Since completing the Drum Sign, Mike has been removing dings from the wagon's stainless trim. Here Vince and I test fit the side spears..
We've done some stainless repair before using small hammers and handmade punches to match the rear side of the profile, but during the last metalshaping workshop I attended at Will Cronkrite's shop in SC, I picked up a stainless dent/ding removal fixture that he had made up.. The blue sleeve at the top works on the premise of a slide hammer, with the force applied controlled by the operator. The die at the bottom (punch) is removable to allow a wide variety of specialized punches to fit the application.
This tool allows more controlled manipulation, especially to those of us that don't do this type of repair every day...
Here's one of the purpose built punches made for the trim...
Here's some of our efforts in polishing out the trim after ding removal, filing, and about 6 steps of progressively finer grits of w/d and trizact….
Reflection....
We also were test fitting the dash trim that the owner had picked up. I know, billet is a bit played out, but let's see what works here...
In fitting the corner pieces, the rear point of the trim does not match the unequal radius of the recess in the dash. Then when the middle (concave) radius is pushed into the recess, the rear "point" drops down out of the recess. So the underlying message here it the fit of these parts is piss poor at best.
So we are not going to use these, but opting for something in a stainless trim.. final design TBD...
Lastly, all the travel I've had for the day job really interferes with long term efforts, paintwork in particular. So in the interest of keeping progress moving forward, we have farmed out the paintwork to Brandon and Richard Glymph at Absolute Rod and Custom Paint. So last weekend the body and various parts were delivered to their shop in Annapolis..
So we should be doing assembly here in the near future!!
Since completing the Drum Sign, Mike has been removing dings from the wagon's stainless trim. Here Vince and I test fit the side spears..
We've done some stainless repair before using small hammers and handmade punches to match the rear side of the profile, but during the last metalshaping workshop I attended at Will Cronkrite's shop in SC, I picked up a stainless dent/ding removal fixture that he had made up.. The blue sleeve at the top works on the premise of a slide hammer, with the force applied controlled by the operator. The die at the bottom (punch) is removable to allow a wide variety of specialized punches to fit the application.
This tool allows more controlled manipulation, especially to those of us that don't do this type of repair every day...
Here's one of the purpose built punches made for the trim...
Here's some of our efforts in polishing out the trim after ding removal, filing, and about 6 steps of progressively finer grits of w/d and trizact….
Reflection....
We also were test fitting the dash trim that the owner had picked up. I know, billet is a bit played out, but let's see what works here...
In fitting the corner pieces, the rear point of the trim does not match the unequal radius of the recess in the dash. Then when the middle (concave) radius is pushed into the recess, the rear "point" drops down out of the recess. So the underlying message here it the fit of these parts is piss poor at best.
So we are not going to use these, but opting for something in a stainless trim.. final design TBD...
Lastly, all the travel I've had for the day job really interferes with long term efforts, paintwork in particular. So in the interest of keeping progress moving forward, we have farmed out the paintwork to Brandon and Richard Glymph at Absolute Rod and Custom Paint. So last weekend the body and various parts were delivered to their shop in Annapolis..
So we should be doing assembly here in the near future!!
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Offcenter12
Well-known member
Hi Robert,
Like a lot of people I watch your threads for inspiration and to learn and appreciate your professional explanations. I had to laugh at your description of the billet dash part that was described as, "the fit of these parts is piss poor at best.", a term I use probably more than I ought to. Thanks for keeping it real and all the excellent photos that show your work.
John
Like a lot of people I watch your threads for inspiration and to learn and appreciate your professional explanations. I had to laugh at your description of the billet dash part that was described as, "the fit of these parts is piss poor at best.", a term I use probably more than I ought to. Thanks for keeping it real and all the excellent photos that show your work.
John
larry4406
Well-known member
That trim slide hammer is pretty slick!
Sad to see you are farming out the paintwork as I was eagerly waiting to be a fly on the wall when it came to this
Sad to see you are farming out the paintwork as I was eagerly waiting to be a fly on the wall when it came to this
jimkinney
Well-known member
Time for a long overdue update. I've had too much travel for the day job since the first of the year. Case in point, we've had more than one Taco Tuesday at the Sand Bar in Cocoa Beach...
I wish I had known you were at the Sandbar, I'd have bought you a beer, I'm about 10 min from there.
The trim is looking good. Much better than the glue on plastic stuff on my Suburban.
Jim
awesome work as usual. if you want someone closer to do the paint stuff, Mike Bowen off of Indian Bridge does fantastic work, and has been for atleast 20 years.
now that i think about it, you two probably already know one another
now that i think about it, you two probably already know one another
Thank you! I do some stainless trim on my off season, I will be building one!
This whole thread is just full of useful stuff and GREAT work!
Thanks guys! Jim, I'll have to look you up the next time in the neighborhood..
The Biederman truck we did some rust repairs and metal fabrication on found its way onto the cover of the latest issue of Wheels of Time. It has a feature article on the restoration John did on the truck, as well as a follow up article on the company history. Pretty neat to read, honored to have played a small part in helping preserve an example of this rare truck for future generations.
Before:
After:
Photo credit: ATHS Wheels of Time
The Biederman truck we did some rust repairs and metal fabrication on found its way onto the cover of the latest issue of Wheels of Time. It has a feature article on the restoration John did on the truck, as well as a follow up article on the company history. Pretty neat to read, honored to have played a small part in helping preserve an example of this rare truck for future generations.
Before:
After:
Photo credit: ATHS Wheels of Time
xtremek
Well-known member
Way cool.
Stuart in MN
Well-known member
They're pretty famous in the custom car world, I've seen some of their work in the magazines.
Whew, I finally made it through all 168 pages! Thanks again Robert for documenting your expertise for us to learn from. It's much appreciated.
I even took notes for some of the bodywork on my truck and project car this year.
I see you're fairly close to California; my Wife's niece just moved there last year and we're planning a stop to see her on our way to PA. Small world.
Thanks,
John
I even took notes for some of the bodywork on my truck and project car this year.
I see you're fairly close to California; my Wife's niece just moved there last year and we're planning a stop to see her on our way to PA. Small world.
Thanks,
John
Great work on the wagon and its trim, congratulations on the magazine cover! Damn that Biederman is cool
Thanks guys! It is an oddball truck, only one I've ever seen.. I did ask John at one point what he was thinking when he bought a truck he could not find sheet metal replacements for.
I have enjoyed the challenge, I would surmise it will be added to a museum one day..And about the most humble and outgoing guys you'll ever meet.
John, thanks for following along with the mayhem. Send me a PM when you head up this way, if I'm in town you'll have to see if the boss lady will allow a "shop visit"
Not many pictures to show on our wagon progress, the body has been blocked out and Brandon is getting some touch ups done to get ready for one final epoxy sprayout..
Vince has been given the thankless task of media blasting some of the remaining bare steel components so we can get some painting done of piece parts on this end. The condenser mount was media blasted, epoxy used to seal the wired edge, and some Evercoat 416 added and sanded smooth to form a slight radius fillet to finish it off.. We should be priming this coming week..
Vince has been given the thankless task of media blasting some of the remaining bare steel components so we can get some painting done of piece parts on this end. The condenser mount was media blasted, epoxy used to seal the wired edge, and some Evercoat 416 added and sanded smooth to form a slight radius fillet to finish it off.. We should be priming this coming week..