Well that kinda *****. I understand the . . . . former owners and what the hell were they thinking, been there alot.
My leaning garage fix
- Thread starter OldGarageChris
- Start date
Well that kinda *****. I understand the . . . . former owners and what the hell were they thinking, been there alot.
OP
OldGarageChris
Well-known member
If you've seen the before pictures, the worry is doing all of this work on a cracked concrete pad. Crack's like these are ok because there is no separation:
Where as this crack is worrisome because of the lift(equal dip on opposite corner) and separation:
The separation crack is the front right corner of the slab. This crack is because of the tree right up against the foundation. There's a root under there. I'm chopping the #@%! out of it around the perimeter. The tree's dead and this root can do nothing but degrade.
If I had more time, I'd be cutting the corner out and re-pouring this section of slab. I probably should do it regardless...but I wont. Too much work and I don't see this continuing to move with the tree dead and removed.
Where as this crack is worrisome because of the lift(equal dip on opposite corner) and separation:
The separation crack is the front right corner of the slab. This crack is because of the tree right up against the foundation. There's a root under there. I'm chopping the #@%! out of it around the perimeter. The tree's dead and this root can do nothing but degrade.
If I had more time, I'd be cutting the corner out and re-pouring this section of slab. I probably should do it regardless...but I wont. Too much work and I don't see this continuing to move with the tree dead and removed.
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OP
OldGarageChris
Well-known member
As I will be rebuilding the front corners and door surrounding walls, I'm considering pouring a new front right corner footing to take weight off the compromised pad. The other reason for a new footing is because of this:
The concrete under where the sill plate should sit, has crumbled off.
Is breaking this up, renting an auger and using sonotube for a new footing the best (only?) way to tackle this corner? It's holding up production!
EDIT: I think I've decided to just move the front wall in 6" fully onto the slab. I might as well do it this way as I'm cutting up the corners. The difficulty will be relocating the beam over the garage door, but that's something I can worry about after the other sill and stud work is done.
The concrete under where the sill plate should sit, has crumbled off.
Is breaking this up, renting an auger and using sonotube for a new footing the best (only?) way to tackle this corner? It's holding up production!
EDIT: I think I've decided to just move the front wall in 6" fully onto the slab. I might as well do it this way as I'm cutting up the corners. The difficulty will be relocating the beam over the garage door, but that's something I can worry about after the other sill and stud work is done.
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little d
Well-known member
Chris,
the bad thing about moving the wall in 6" is you will no longer be sitting on the footer, it will be sitting on the slab. The slab might be thick enough to carry the weight but, it might not.
I know it sounds like a lot of work breaking out the old and repouring but........
the bad thing about moving the wall in 6" is you will no longer be sitting on the footer, it will be sitting on the slab. The slab might be thick enough to carry the weight but, it might not.
I know it sounds like a lot of work breaking out the old and repouring but........
OP
OldGarageChris
Well-known member
Good point little d. I'll do more digging later to find out if an actual footer was used. As the slab is older than I am, its hard to tell if it was 2 pours or 1.
Is there anyone as old as my garage that knows if 30+ years ago people were as religious with footings as we are now?
As I mentioned earlier, the right side (picture above) has the sill plate on TOP of the slab. The fronts, rear and left side have a step down to make the top of the sill plate LEVEL with the slab.
Is there anyone as old as my garage that knows if 30+ years ago people were as religious with footings as we are now?
As I mentioned earlier, the right side (picture above) has the sill plate on TOP of the slab. The fronts, rear and left side have a step down to make the top of the sill plate LEVEL with the slab.
Chris,sometimes you'll find huge footers as concrete used to be cheap. It was easier to fill it with concrete then the work of adding stone. OTOH, sometimes it was mixed by hand and they used as little as possible.
Seeing what I see, I'd probably dig it up,reform it and more. Then order a load of concrete and make it right. Usually the minimum load is 3 yards or you get hit with a small load charge. If you were to do this, you could also cut out the cracked floor section and repour it. Might worth the time and money to fix it now.
Seeing what I see, I'd probably dig it up,reform it and more. Then order a load of concrete and make it right. Usually the minimum load is 3 yards or you get hit with a small load charge. If you were to do this, you could also cut out the cracked floor section and repour it. Might worth the time and money to fix it now.
OP
OldGarageChris
Well-known member
NUTTSGT> My original plan was the cut out the corner and re-pour. Then I thought about how much work it would be. I'm still working on sill's and studs...so I'll put it off for now. I completely agree with you...I just need to think about it some more.
__________________________________
Oops, I forgot to secure the top of my studs...
Check out how big this stump is. The city didnt fully grind it up because of proximity to the garage. It's already killed my sawzall, circular saw and my back/axe...I think I need to upgrade to a chainsaw.
I measured the other wall to determine height of the studs and cut new 2x4's. You will notice the new studs are not secured. This is because I've cut out the bottom rot of the old studs, the top plate has separated from the studs and the wall was pulled in. I used temporary 2x4's on the sill plate and the old garage door rail at the top as guides. I'll make adjustments to stud location and secure when I lower the roof.
I decided to use 12" 9mill plastic vapour barrier under the sill plate. The extra plastic will be wrapped up and attached to the studs before the OSB is installed. This will completely isolate (as a backup) the sill plate from the elements. 3/4 x 4" anchor bolts used on the sills.
Pulled out one of the corner pulling hooks to find the lag bolt bent. I forget what size I used...but I should have went bigger.
Hoping to finish the sill, new studs and drop the right wall early this week.
__________________________________
Oops, I forgot to secure the top of my studs...
Check out how big this stump is. The city didnt fully grind it up because of proximity to the garage. It's already killed my sawzall, circular saw and my back/axe...I think I need to upgrade to a chainsaw.
I measured the other wall to determine height of the studs and cut new 2x4's. You will notice the new studs are not secured. This is because I've cut out the bottom rot of the old studs, the top plate has separated from the studs and the wall was pulled in. I used temporary 2x4's on the sill plate and the old garage door rail at the top as guides. I'll make adjustments to stud location and secure when I lower the roof.
I decided to use 12" 9mill plastic vapour barrier under the sill plate. The extra plastic will be wrapped up and attached to the studs before the OSB is installed. This will completely isolate (as a backup) the sill plate from the elements. 3/4 x 4" anchor bolts used on the sills.
Pulled out one of the corner pulling hooks to find the lag bolt bent. I forget what size I used...but I should have went bigger.
Hoping to finish the sill, new studs and drop the right wall early this week.
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IONH
Well-known member
Great job correcting that angle.
Considering how dry the garage should have been, I'm a bit surprised none of the lengths of wood snapped when being straightened. But then again, I'm guessing the fasteners just came apart (well, likely came apart when leaning and showed the gap once straightened).
Considering how dry the garage should have been, I'm a bit surprised none of the lengths of wood snapped when being straightened. But then again, I'm guessing the fasteners just came apart (well, likely came apart when leaning and showed the gap once straightened).
OP
OldGarageChris
Well-known member
I was blown away at how easy this thing was to straighten. I know I didn't build up my corners right or secure the pulling hook properly. I definitely expected breakage and doubted my setup would work. For it to not only move easily, but then stay straight when releasing the chains...I just couldn't believe it. The sills were non-existant and the bottom foot of each stud was completely rotten...not sure what was holding this thing up. Maybe the front left corner that slipped off the pad was propping it up.
OP
OldGarageChris
Well-known member
Update: I decided last weekend that I was way in over my head. I was working slowly, not really knowing what to do and it was going to take months to get done. Months that I don't have.
So, I put an ad on kijiji and hired a guy that only wanted $15/hour. Not only did he come in and take over the project...but he halls ***! He was initially freaked out at the lean...and that was after I thought I fixed it! First move was to move my come-alongs from the outside to the inside. I pretty much fixed the front/back lean, but he recognized the twist and moved things inside to pull on opposing corners.
Here are a few pics:
You can tell he knows what he's doing. He also has experience in siding with his own sheet metal bender...what a godsend!
All of the mistakes you see...I made haha. This is all after only 3 days! (and only $350 in labour
) Tomorrow will be framing up and installing a new side door. Tie in roof to studs and finish bracing. Dig out front sunken corner slab to jack up and re-pour underneath. Still need to rebuild the front wall. Then of course siding at some point...front door...digging around the perimeter for a french drain....eavestroughs.
At this rate, it'll be done by the weekend for less than $600 in labour...
So, I put an ad on kijiji and hired a guy that only wanted $15/hour. Not only did he come in and take over the project...but he halls ***! He was initially freaked out at the lean...and that was after I thought I fixed it! First move was to move my come-alongs from the outside to the inside. I pretty much fixed the front/back lean, but he recognized the twist and moved things inside to pull on opposing corners.
Here are a few pics:
You can tell he knows what he's doing. He also has experience in siding with his own sheet metal bender...what a godsend!
All of the mistakes you see...I made haha. This is all after only 3 days! (and only $350 in labour
) Tomorrow will be framing up and installing a new side door. Tie in roof to studs and finish bracing. Dig out front sunken corner slab to jack up and re-pour underneath. Still need to rebuild the front wall. Then of course siding at some point...front door...digging around the perimeter for a french drain....eavestroughs. At this rate, it'll be done by the weekend for less than $600 in labour...
IONH
Well-known member
Looking great!
There's been alot of progress and a great garage save in this thread. Keep up the hard work.
OP
OldGarageChris
Well-known member
Front walls widened for better support. You can see a step back in the corners: this is the original corner that we kept in place to hold the beam. We then built a new wall inside on the contrete pad with three 2x6x10's. These will be capped.
Gravel delivered...not looking forward to trench digging
Side door installed. 1 side of the roof done.
I doubt I'll be done by Friday...but that's the $5100 mark. All materials bought. Its just labour now at $150/day.
Goal was under $5000 doing the work myself. I'll be happy to get it done for 6k hiring help for 2-3 weeks.
Gravel delivered...not looking forward to trench digging
Side door installed. 1 side of the roof done.
I doubt I'll be done by Friday...but that's the $5100 mark. All materials bought. Its just labour now at $150/day.
Goal was under $5000 doing the work myself. I'll be happy to get it done for 6k hiring help for 2-3 weeks.
OP
OldGarageChris
Well-known member
New roof = no old wood
Old 1x8x4 plank boards still rock solid and flat
Up and up corner slab!
Corner sunk 1.5". I raised it over an inch when the tip of the corner broke and fell to 1". So all I gained was 0.5" lift. Luckily my 6x6 support was there to catch it!
Boxed and new footing poured.
10" trench dug out to 4" below foundation. Sloped to the corners where a 3' deep hole of gravel awaits
Bottom metal flashing extends below concrete slab.
No eaves-troughs and full runoff from the roof = not a drop of water inside
Hoping for 2-3 days left...starting to cost more than planned, but still just under 6k. Cheaper than a brand new rebuild...just dont want to overdo it.
Old 1x8x4 plank boards still rock solid and flat
Up and up corner slab!
Corner sunk 1.5". I raised it over an inch when the tip of the corner broke and fell to 1". So all I gained was 0.5" lift. Luckily my 6x6 support was there to catch it!
Boxed and new footing poured.
10" trench dug out to 4" below foundation. Sloped to the corners where a 3' deep hole of gravel awaits
Bottom metal flashing extends below concrete slab.
No eaves-troughs and full runoff from the roof = not a drop of water inside
Hoping for 2-3 days left...starting to cost more than planned, but still just under 6k. Cheaper than a brand new rebuild...just dont want to overdo it.
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Outlander
Well-known member
2 thumbs up. Keep the photos flowing. Nice job.
Wow, the transformation is well on it's way. The Before and After pics are going to be incredible !!
Curious about story on corner of slab being jacked up . . . settling?? Was it water runoff?? Will you be putting in rebar & concrete as long-term solution??
Not sure I like the vinyl siding as it might exaggerate any crooked lines left when garage is done. However, your gravel job near foundation will give this garage a long life into the future.
Keep pics and Saving work coming . . . . Looking Good for under $6K !
Curious about story on corner of slab being jacked up . . . settling?? Was it water runoff?? Will you be putting in rebar & concrete as long-term solution??
Not sure I like the vinyl siding as it might exaggerate any crooked lines left when garage is done. However, your gravel job near foundation will give this garage a long life into the future.
Keep pics and Saving work coming . . . . Looking Good for under $6K !
OP
OldGarageChris
Well-known member
The front right corner of the slab separated because of a root from the removed tree. All I could do was try and level it out. Didnt go according to plan as it broke while lifting...but the new footing should stop it from sinking further. No rebar. The pour is entirely under the slab. Didnt want to cut and repour the entire corner...so this was next best.
Modifieddriver
Well-known member
I like this thread.
This is like doing an old car restoration.
Screw the guys that said tear it down. They're probably be ones that'll buy a new KIA rather than rebuilding the engine in their old Impala.
I did a job like this in the early 70's. Concrete mostly turned to dirt. Sill plate and studs rotted out. I jacked it up, poured a new turn down slab. Replaced/reinforced all the rotted wood, insulated, paneled and installed an overhead door. Instant fab shop garage.
Like one poster said here, there was a time when concrete was cheap. I remember my concrete pour averaged about 8" thick because it was easier/cheaper to use concrete than gravel. Yes, times have changed.
Good luck, I like this project a whole bunch.
This is like doing an old car restoration.
Screw the guys that said tear it down. They're probably be ones that'll buy a new KIA rather than rebuilding the engine in their old Impala.
I did a job like this in the early 70's. Concrete mostly turned to dirt. Sill plate and studs rotted out. I jacked it up, poured a new turn down slab. Replaced/reinforced all the rotted wood, insulated, paneled and installed an overhead door. Instant fab shop garage.
Like one poster said here, there was a time when concrete was cheap. I remember my concrete pour averaged about 8" thick because it was easier/cheaper to use concrete than gravel. Yes, times have changed.
Good luck, I like this project a whole bunch.
theoldwizard1
Well-known member
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No eaves-troughs and full runoff from the roof = not a drop of water inside
Nice job with the gravel back fill ! I hope you
- lined the trench with heavy landscape cloth. If not, over time, dirt will get into the gravel and minimize the drainage capablity.
- pitched the trench so that water runs to a low area, away from the garage. Mine was so bad I install drain pipe, solid PVC (not DWV) with holes to carry the water away faster (the ground is actually higher than my slab on one side of my garage). Pipe leads to a dry well in the far corner of the yard.
OP
OldGarageChris
Well-known member
I did neither. Got to the point of not wanting to spend anymore. Water shouldn't be at the gravel anyways with long downspouts.
OP
OldGarageChris
Well-known member
Alright here we go! It's finally finished!!!
See the front wall cap? That's the old corner/beam. We left it in place.
Still need to reattach my fences, paint that little white one and find a way to lock the garage door from the inside.
The doors are cheap...but I didn't want to go overboard with $$$.
Still need to update my costs but I should be close to $5.5k. Considering my budget goal was under 5k, I'm happy with the cost considering I did very little work My budget also didn't include a new roof...which is done. My estimates for a teardown and rebuild were in the 20k range.
I'll update the first post with the full transformation of pics
WOOOOOHOOOOO SO EXCITED!!!!
See the front wall cap? That's the old corner/beam. We left it in place.
Still need to reattach my fences, paint that little white one and find a way to lock the garage door from the inside.
The doors are cheap...but I didn't want to go overboard with $$$.
Still need to update my costs but I should be close to $5.5k. Considering my budget goal was under 5k, I'm happy with the cost considering I did very little work
My budget also didn't include a new roof...which is done. My estimates for a teardown and rebuild were in the 20k range.I'll update the first post with the full transformation of pics
WOOOOOHOOOOO SO EXCITED!!!!
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Garage Dog
Well-known member
Nice job on saving the life of an old garage - I'm sure the old garage appreciates your efforts and will enjoy your company while working on projects together for years to come.
You have shown many here it is possible to save old structures, just not always practical, glad to see you struck a balance and made it happen - enjoy your new space.
You have shown many here it is possible to save old structures, just not always practical, glad to see you struck a balance and made it happen - enjoy your new space.
Craptain
Well-known member
You did well. And it looks great. By my standards at only a 10% overrun you are within budget. My projects ALWAYS go over and usually much more than 10%.
Perrorojo
Well-known member
Great Job.
Kels
Well-known member
This is impressive.
Perrorojo
Well-known member
Aren't you glad you didn't listen?
IONH
Well-known member
Looks awesome!
I especially like the doors. Can you tell us how they were made? I'm guessing 2x4 innards and sheeted with OSB on both sides? Anything special about the hinges or locking mechanisms?
I especially like the doors. Can you tell us how they were made? I'm guessing 2x4 innards and sheeted with OSB on both sides? Anything special about the hinges or locking mechanisms?
e-tek
Well-known member
I agree that it looks great. I was also going to say something about the 10% overage on the budget, I'd say you hit the mark quite well for your first large scale project, especially one with several unknowns.
MasterOod
Well-known member
I'm glad that restoring worked out so well, and gave such an impressive result!
rrudd2
Well-known member
Congratulations! It looks fantastic! Great job!
bczygan
Well-known member
What was wrong with it in the first place?
Chris, I would try to find some something from National Hardware (brand) to lock the doors. On one door, I would put a cane pin at the bottom which would require a hole drilled in concrete. At the top of the same door would be a pull down lock like a foot bolt, that should secure one door.
On both doors I would put a hasp between them and use a padlock. This is what I made for my garage shed door.
Outlander
Well-known member
Great job!!!
Outlawmws
Well-known member
Nice save and good job getting the gutters to dump away from the building! Keep as much damp away from the structure as possible!
OP
OldGarageChris
Well-known member
I'm super excited that this is finally finished. So much so that I'm looking at renting instead of selling. Thank you all for the help and support guys.
2x4 frame to match thickness of the wall. OSB/wrapped/covered in siding. 10" hinges attached using the short horizontal pieces of 2x4 on the back. I don't particularly like how short the 2x4s are behind the hinges...but I cant do anything about it now that its sided. I have a feeling after a few years the hinge screw holes might widen in the OSB. I need to sheet the inside of the door to stop moisture from hitting the back of the door if it rains with the door open.
Special locking mechanism? Yes. The short 2x4 in the middle with 2 deck screws I haven't decided on a locking solution until...
GREAT idea! I planned to use a rod type mechanism into the concrete and accepted the fact I would have to go in the side door to open/lock the front. However, I didn't think about using a hasp between the doors and a padlock. This way I can use the front outside lock during frequent entries and use the rod into the concrete for nightly/weekend locking. Brilliant!
___________________________
I put over a year into researching and planning this project. The important thing to remember is if you don't know what to do, ask. Whether its google, this forum or an experienced friend...make sure you know what you're doing. Structural integrity of a building is not something you want to take lightly. Hiring an experienced framer was the best decision I made. The bonus was he also knew how to roof, siding and in these economic times only wanted $15/hour.
I'm enjoying re-reading all the comments about tearing it down for a rebuild. Although I have no idea how this building was standing with the bottom foot of all studs and sill plates completely rotted out...it was still standing, which means it could be saved. I will reorganize the first post out of appreciation for everyone's help and to hopefully give someone ideas and motivation in the future.
2x4 frame to match thickness of the wall. OSB/wrapped/covered in siding. 10" hinges attached using the short horizontal pieces of 2x4 on the back. I don't particularly like how short the 2x4s are behind the hinges...but I cant do anything about it now that its sided. I have a feeling after a few years the hinge screw holes might widen in the OSB. I need to sheet the inside of the door to stop moisture from hitting the back of the door if it rains with the door open.
Special locking mechanism? Yes. The short 2x4 in the middle with 2 deck screws
I haven't decided on a locking solution until...GREAT idea! I planned to use a rod type mechanism into the concrete and accepted the fact I would have to go in the side door to open/lock the front. However, I didn't think about using a hasp between the doors and a padlock. This way I can use the front outside lock during frequent entries and use the rod into the concrete for nightly/weekend locking. Brilliant!
___________________________
I put over a year into researching and planning this project. The important thing to remember is if you don't know what to do, ask. Whether its google, this forum or an experienced friend...make sure you know what you're doing. Structural integrity of a building is not something you want to take lightly. Hiring an experienced framer was the best decision I made. The bonus was he also knew how to roof, siding and in these economic times only wanted $15/hour.
I'm enjoying re-reading all the comments about tearing it down for a rebuild. Although I have no idea how this building was standing with the bottom foot of all studs and sill plates completely rotted out...it was still standing, which means it could be saved. I will reorganize the first post out of appreciation for everyone's help and to hopefully give someone ideas and motivation in the future.
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Jimmy Knight
Member
- Joined
- Sep 26, 2012
- Messages
- 20
For $5,500... you could have built a brand new CUSTOM to your liking garage for that!!!
green.bubbly
Well-known member
And?
For $5,500, he was able to restore and old structure, had a great project, learned a few things and has a custom garage.
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For many people that can be easier said than done. Often times when a structure is tore down, it has to be moved back from the property line due to setbacks. Sometimes you can get a variance while other times in some locales it's next to impossible.
I'm sure Chris appreciates that post after you were one of posters telling him to tear it down in the beginning. You could of atleast paid the guy a compliment on his garage instead another negative post.