Mystery Ratchets??

[Oldtuleguy]

Starting around 1930, wards became pretty good about having their tools marked wards. Duro indestro appears to be be their main supplier until 1940 when they started also selling wright and some truth sets, and at some point even new britain plomb and thorsen. Just to confuse things a bit more, they would use multiple suppliers simultaneously!

 

[AntiqueBen]

So, it might be possible my unmarked Indestro for Wards could be from the '30's? I was thinking '40's. I guess it might be possible because as four.cycle pointed out the patent for the 3202R was around 1933. Sounds like Wards had a lot of different manufacturer's making tools for them. I didn't realize it was that many.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

It's likely some mid to late 30s variant. Since it is not marke wards may have been from a generic set for resale anywhere.

 

[d42jeep]

Many of the conventional Indestro ratchets with plugs are not marked with the manufacturers name. I believe that ratchets with plugs were used before and during WW2.
-Don
Wartime D-I 1/2” drive complete sets

 

[AntiqueBen]

Interesting they decided to press the plates on these instead of offering a way to get inside. Oh well, at least there is an oil hole. Or, maybe by doing this it wouldn't allow crud over time to find its way inside. Neat construction.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

Amazingly they all seem to still work!

 

[AntiqueBen]

Mine works great. Can't beat the old stuff!!

 

[d42jeep]

Although there isn’t any catalog verification available, I think the Wards (or whoever) contract ratchet looks a little more modern than the conventional ratchets.
-Don
Indestro seems to have liked the handle design enough to incorporate it into their more modern ratchets.

 

[AntiqueBen]

It is a cool handle. I've always liked the lever action on the Select stuff. Those are some nice Select examples! Did I read the Select series was a short run & only manufactured in the '60's?

 

[bonneyman]

Many of the conventional Indestro ratchets with plugs are not marked with the manufacturers name. I believe that ratchets with plugs were used before and during WW2.
-Don
Wartime D-I 1/2” drive complete sets

I love the tiny holes marked "oil". Just to let informed techs know not to put lard or MMO in there.

 

[four.cycle]

Did I read the Select series was a short run & only manufactured in the '60's?

The "Select" brand was stamped on some items through the 1970s and 1980s.

 

[Debcrow]

Here is a 676D plug ratchet I recently bought. No markings on the handle itself. Duro Chrome on the face with 676D, both hard to read since they are underneath the lever.
Since this is a reversing plug ratchet, it is hard to read and the stud for the lever does not go all of the way through to the back cover is this a transition model or possibly just using up leftover stock?

 

[four.cycle]

"...it is hard to read and the stud for the lever does not go all of the way through to the back cover..."

Not sure what part is "hard to read" - it's stamped with the manufacturer's name, part number, and patent number, which is about all any of them were stamped with (if that much.)
By "stud for the lever" you are referring to the pin on which the selector lever pivots, it's peened on the backside of the cover plate, so it would not "go all of the way through."

There was no "transition". There were three variants of the original 3202 made: the first had a 16-tooth mechanism (made up until... 1936? 1938?) second had 18 teeth (to 1938?) and the third was a 36-tooth mechanism (1938 on.) (I had that figured out and posted it in the "Duro Ratchet?" thread I cited above.)
The 3202R (and its Duro-Chrome equivalent 676D - your model above) appears in the 1937 catalog (and subsequent issues through 1959), but other than tooth count there weren't any design changes made on it.

 

[Debcrow]

Not sure what part is "hard to read" - it's stamped with the manufacturer's name, part number, and patent number, which is about all any of them were stamped with (if that much.)

Thanks for the information, great to know the years of manufacture.
I realize there are slight design changes through the years and that there is difference between Indestro and Duro-Chrome.
Most of the levers I see on the internet have a different inscribed lines on them and the lever shafts are 4 sided instead of 6 sided so it is a little confusing trying to compare models/years.
The HARD TO READ is the model number which is directly under the lever.
I am familiar with Duro Chrome and Indestro so I knew what brand it was even if it is partially covered at all times.
I had to get a bright light and an eye loupe to read the last 6 since it is pretty much covered at all times and the lever is just barely above it. Even then I was not sure if it was a 6 or an 8 and guessed at 6.
The seven is also always partly covered, but the figure 7 is pretty unique so it was not hard to figure out.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

The two of these on left are 16 toothers, the 3rd 18 and a mid 50s 36 toothed on right. The far left one came in an early 30s set and lacks that little bump in handle at base of ratchet head

 

[four.cycle]

he HARD TO READ is the model number which is directly under the lever.

I am assuming you are talking about the patent number, 1902878, which is the same patent number applicable on all of those models: 3201, 3202, 3202-R, 2788, 2789, 2889... as well as a few others.

The 1902878 patent, and the "pressed flange" ratchet design to which is applies, was the subject of the other Duro Ratchet Thread I cited above, where more photo images can be found.

==

these are notes from a 2016 file. there may be a couple edits required, as I didn't have the 1937, 1952, and a couple other catalogs at the time I put these notes together, but I'm not awake enough right now to dive into it:

1935 Indestro catalog No. 1935A shows:

3202 1/2" square female drive non-reversible ratchet
(uses 3215 drive adapter)

(* RE: 3202: The ratchet mechanism uses a relatively coarse 16-tooth gear, an indication of the early manufacture of this tool. Alloy-Artifacts.org

2888 3/8" square female drive non-reversible "Cub" ratchet (20-tooth, per d42jeep GarageJournal.com)
(uses 3731 3/8" x 3/8" "Cub" 1" extension adapter) or
(uses 2732 3/8" x 3/8" "Cub" 4½" extension adapter) or
(uses 2733 3/8" x 1/4" reducing adapter) * or
(uses 3233 3/8" x 1/2" increasing adapter )

2888 1/4" square female drive non-reversible "Midget" ratchet (20-tooth, per d42jeep GarageJournal.com)
(uses 2831 1/4" x 1/4" "Midget" 3/4" extension adapter) or
(uses 2733 3/8" x 1/4" increasing adapter) *

(* note part numbers 2732 and 2733 became standard 3/8" extensions later.)

==

(* The 1941 Indestro catalog offered pressed-flange ratchets in three versions, a model 3201R with reversible male/female drive, model 3202R with reversible female drive, and model 3202 with non-reversible female drive. These were part of the Super Quality Chrome Vanadium line and probably would have been marked "Super-Quality". Alloy-Artifacts.org

==

1948 Indestro catalog No. 16 shows:

3201 1/2" square male drive reversible ratchet

(* RE: 3201: The ratchet mechanism has a 36-tooth gear... Alloy-Artifacts.org )

3202R 1/2" square female drive reversible ratchet

(* RE: 3202R: The ratchet mechanism uses an 18-tooth drive gear, slightly finer than the previous example but still relatively coarse. Alloy-Artifacts.org )

3202 1/2" square female drive non-reversible ratchet
(both 3202 and 3202R use 3215 ratchet adapter plug)

2788 3/8" square female drive "Cub" non-reversible ratchet
(uses 2731 3/8" x 3/8" "Cub" 1" extension adapter) or
(uses 2793 3/8" x 1/4" reducing adapter) or
(uses 3233 3/8" x 1/2" increasing adapter)

2789 3/8" square male drive "Cub" reversible ratchet

2888 1/4" square female drive "Midget" non-reversible ratchet
2889 1/4" square female drive "Midget' reversible ratchet
(both use 2831 1/4" x 1/4" "Midget" 3/4" short adapter) or
(both use 2793 1/4" x 3/8" increasing adapter) or

==

(* Ratchet models 3201R and 3202R were still available in the 1956 Indestro catalog No. 20, and the model 3201R had assumed its present male-drive-only form. By the early 1960s the only remaining pressed-flange ratchet was the model 3202R. Alloy-Artifacts.org
(* I think the above note was supposed to say 3201, not 3201R. The model 3201 was a male-drive reversible model. )

==

1959 Indestro catalog No. 22 shows:

3202R 1/2" square female drive 36-tooth reversible ratchet
(uses 3215 1/2" ratchet adapter plug) or
(uses 3205 1/2" x 1/2" & 1¼ extension adapter)

By 1959 the the only iteration of the pressed-flange design ratchet was the 3202R 1/2" drive model.

The other 1/2", 3/8" and 1/4" drive ratchets were available only in the "open gear" type:
3239 1/2" square male drive "open gear" 30-tooth reversible ratchet (oval "flat" handle)
2739 3/8" square male drive "open gear" 30-tooth reversible ratchet (oval "flat" handle) (* 2739 noted in Jan. 19, 1959 price list as "New item - available at a later date.")
2839 1/4" square male drive "open gear" 30-tooth reversible ratchet (oval "flat" handle) (* 2839 noted in Jan. 19, 1959 price list as "New item - available at a later date.")

or in the later "RHFT" design most of us are familiar with:

3277 1/2" square male drive RHFT 52-tooth reversible ratchet (oval "flat' handle - four-point selector)
3275 1/2" square male drive RHFT 52-tooth reversible ratchet (knurled round handle - four-point selector)
2777 3/8" square male drive RHFT 52-tooth reversible ratchet (oval "flat" handle - four-point selector)
2775 3/8" square male drive RHFT 52-tooth reversible ratchet (knurled round handle - four-point selector)
2736 3/8" square male drive RHFT 52-tooth reversible flex-head ratchet (oval "flat" handle - four-point selector)
2875 1/4" square male drive RHFT (52-tooth) reversible ratchet (oval "flat" handle - four-point selector)

==

* not in any of my catalogs:

6470 1/2" square male drive "open gear" reversible ratchet (oval "flat" handle) * SELECT *
6270 3/8" square male drive "open gear" reversible ratchet (oval "flat" handle) * SELECT *
6070 1/4" square male drive "open gear" reversible ratchet (oval "flat" handle) * SELECT *

==

1972 Indestro catalog No. 55 shows:

3275 1/2" square male drive RHFT 52-tooth reversible ratchet (knurled round handle - three-point selector)
3289 (same as 3275 but with 15½" handle)
3270 1/2" square male drive RHFT 52-tooth flex-head reversible ratchet (flat "oval" handle - three-point selector)
6472 1/2" square male drive pear-head 30-tooth reversible ratchet (knurled round handle)

2775 3/8" square male drive RHFT 52-tooth reversible ratchet (knurled round handle - three-point selector)
2736 3/8" square male drive RHFT 52-tooth flex-head reversible ratchet (knurled round handle - three-point selector)
6272 3/8" square male drive pear-head 24-tooth reversible ratchet (knurled round handle)

2875 1/4" square male drive RHFT 52-tooth reversible ratchet (flat "oval" handle - three-point selector)
6072 1/4" square male drive pear head 24-tooth reversible ratchet (knurled round handle)

==

1982 Indestro catalog No. 60 shows:

3275A 1/2" square male drive RHFT 60-tooth reversible ratchet (knurled round handle - 6-point "star wheel" selector)
3289A (same as 3275A, but with 15½" handle)
3270A 1/2" square male drive RHFT 60-tooth flex-head reversible ratchet (knurled round handle - 6-point "star wheel" selector)
6472 1/2" square male drive pear-head 30-tooth reversible ratchet (knurled round handle)
3280 1/2" square male drive "SLR 500" 30-tooth reversible Indestro-Roberts quick-release ratchet (knurled round handle)

2775A 3/8" square male drive RHFT 60-tooth reversible ratchet (knurled round handle - 6-point "star wheel" selector)
2736A 3/8" square male drive RHFT 60-tooth flex-head reversible ratchet (knurled round handle - 6-point selector)
2739 3/8" square male drive RHFT 60-tooth reversible bent-handle flex-head ratchet (knurled round handle - 6-point "star wheel" selector)
6272 3/8" square male drive pear-head 24-tooth reversible ratchet (knurled round handle)
2780 3/8" square male drive "SLR 375" 24-tooth reversible Indestro-Roberts quick-release ratchet (knurled round handle)

2875A 1/4" square male drive RHFT 60-tooth reversible ratchet (knurled round handle - 6-point "star wheel" selector)
6072 1/4" square male drive pear-head 24-tooth reversible ratchet (knurled round handle)
2880 1/4" square male drive "SLR 250" 24-tooth reversible Indestro-Roberts quick-release ratchet (knurled round handle)

==

Notes:

The list above is for Indestro only. Duro Chrome is not included.

The 1935 and 1948 catalogs do not show "tooth count".

Refrigeration ratchets are not included in the above list.

Unless otherwise noted, selectors on reversible models are lever-type.

Some models using the same part numbers may have been available in two different drive sizes. See notes in post #62 of this thread (above.)(?)

I have only the 1935, 1948, 1959, 1972, and 1982 catalogs. One can therefore make only a rough guess as to actual production dates on the above.
Only by having every catalog issued would one be able to ascertain with any certainty when any particular model was initially produced, and when its production run ceased.

It is reasonable to assume that the Duro Chrome / Indestro pressed-flange design ratchet (using patent number 1902878 see HERE: http://www.datamp.org/patents/displayPatent.php?id=10709 ) - in its many variants - had a production run of ±30 years.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I am assuming you are talking about the patent number, 1902878,

4.c., @Debcrow is talking about the model number. Are you looking at the photo? The model number is obscured by the direction switch.

@Debcrow - they made so many variants of their ratchets, but if you scroll through this thread alone, or the DI thread, you'll see that on some the model number is on the other face plate, not under the switch.

 

[four.cycle]

^ No... I didn't even focus on that for the reason you just mentioned above - they're stamped on both sides, and some are stamped only with the patent number, or only the model number, or (in some cases) only "Chicago".
If you peruse through that other "Duro Ratchet?" thread it becomes clearly evident there was no consistency or pattern at all in respect to how they were marked, or what was marked on them.

 

[Debcrow]

Thank you, gentlemen.

I am one of those who tend to ID things by identical markings in identical patterns to try and date things.
Knowing that the "consistency" in markings for Indestro & Duro-Chrome is that there seems to be "NO CONSISTANCY" of pattern is actually quite helpful. I will tend to be more observant of other things such as shapes, model numbers and other variations for these tools to help identify specifics.
THANKS again.

 

[four.cycle]

^ The only major changes that are constants on the 3202 and 3202-R are tooth counts: the 16-tooth mechanism (exclusive to the 3202) only lasted a few years, and was replaced with an 18-tooth mechanism. They both later went to the 36-tooth mechanism.

The other changes/differences that have been noted here - the little "bump" under the head in OTG's example above, or the "4-sided/6-sided" variants on selector lever shafts - are news to me, and I have no idea if they have any relevance or might be of any use in attempting to definitively establish date range.

Candidly, my best guess is that Indestro was cranking these out as fast as they could for their own distributors as well as their many private-label accounts, and superfluous matters such as which side the part number was stamped on simply weren't a priority.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

Can't say for sure but the bump my have come later just based on what I have come across.

 

[AntiqueBen]

We'll the brother to my other ratchet came in. This is the Wards male drive equivalent of the older one. After a light oiling, it works like a dream. I think these things are indestructible.

 

[AntiqueBen]

Today I found a Wizard Western Auto 1/2" ratchet that I couldn't pass up. It looks like my other Indestro ratchets. Did Indestro/Duro make Wizard ratchets for Western Auto? There are some differences but there are more similarities.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

Yes they made a bunch of stuff for western auto

 

[AntiqueBen]

I picked up a couple of good ratchets yesterday. The infamous "Superratchet" by J.H. Williams & an unmarked Indestro with it's original plug. Looks like the Indestro only came in a chromium vanadium set for 3 yrs ('35-'37). I needed this one to help complete my family of early Indestro Duro rats. The Superratchet is nice & beefy. This is the earlier version, but according to AA there is an even earlier variant that was stamped just Superratchet instead of "The Superratchet." AA says these are the earlier ones and are somewhat rare. So, I looked online & found one for sale only marked Superratchet. I should get it next week. I'll throw up side by side pics once I get it. Everyone check your Williams Superratchet & see if you have the more rare variant marked Superratchet instead of "The Superratchet."

 

[AntiqueBen]

I need your help on this one guys. I bought an old socket set today that was simply described as "1920's socket set." It's in a nice small metal box with a sliding lid. It has 8 sockets with an Allen as the ratchet. The thing is, I've never seen sockets that look like this. How they are machined & shaped made me do a doubletake when I saw them. With a $16 price tag... couldn't pass it up. The bad thing is, there is not one makers mark or stamp of any kind on anything. Does anyone have any ideas on who may have manufactured this set & a possible era??

 

[Oldtuleguy]

Looks like king, newton or batco

 

[AntiqueBen]

Do you think the 1920's is the correct era?

 

[Oldtuleguy]

That style of sockets were specific to the Boston area, here a newton set

 

[Cruzan80]

There was also an Allen company that had nothing to do with the hex wrenches. Made a female ratchet with a ball-shape, so it could angle about 10-15deg each way and still work. They used pressed-steel sockets, with a 1/2" drive though...

Allen Universal Wrench Set No. 51

The Allen "Universal" Wrench Set No. 51 has a uniquely functioning ratchet wrench... ...which gives the wrench and the entire set… …its name. Mr. F.R. Allen (this is not the same Allen as the eponymous hex keys or wrenches), who founded the company with two partners in 1913, was...

www.garagejournal.com

Edit: I don't see a name on the hex wrench, were you using "Allen Wrench" as a generic name for it?

 

[AntiqueBen]

Yes, I was calling the hex wrench an Allen. I didn't know about the Allen universal wrench set. Thanks oldtuleguy for posting pics of your Newton set. Very nice. Mine definitely look like the King/Newton/Service co. sockets like yours. I ran across the thread that Lugs did a few years ago on these. Very interesting. I guess some King sockets are stamped with a "K". Are your Newton sockets marked in any way?

 

[Oldtuleguy]

These are not but I have seen some that are

 

[AntiqueBen]

The ball on the hex is stuck on one end in the depressed position. I've sprayed it with PB blaster & tapped on it a bit...but still stuck. Should I soak it in PB blaster for a while? Know any tricks for this problem?

 

[Oldtuleguy]

I had one that I soaked for a few days and it popped loose

 

[AntiqueBen]

As promised, here are my Superratchets side by side. One is stamped "The Superratchet" and the earlier one just stamped Superratchet. AA claims the one just marked Superratchet is rare...who knows. I also noticed on the one marked "The Superratchet" below the words Drop Forged is forged dot in the steel & the older one doesn't have this. That is the only other difference I noticed which I'm not sure what it is.

 

[AntiqueBen]

I also picked up a couple of New Britain ratchets. I'm not familiar with these & I'm not sure the era. I know New Britain used to make some Craftsman ratchets. Anyone know anything about these?

 

[Username already in use]

I also picked up a couple of New Britain ratchets. I'm not familiar with these & I'm not sure the era. I know New Britain used to make some Craftsman ratchets. Anyone know anything about these?

Neat owners mark. Writing cursive with an electric pencil is not an easy thing to do. They don't even teach kids cursive in school around here anymore...

 

[Private Lugnutz]

They don't even teach kids cursive in school around here anymore...

"Cursive! Foiled again!"

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Now I'm going to have 1967 Catholic school flashbacks, writing the same letter in cursive, over and over (and over and over) again, on a sheet of lined paper, for hours.

 

[AntiqueBen]

New Britain...New Britain...New Britain