New Garage foundation too low - HELP!

[Muzzy]

EnchantedForest, it still would be worth trying to engage a local architect.
While your builder sounds experienced enough and could well be willing to work with you towards a solution, their judgment will be tempered by the effort and cost they have already put into the job. Other posts have pointed out what could happen if your builder is not willing to work with you. Remember, the builder won't ever park a car in there.

A fix to a bad situation might always be just that. And if in using the building you are reminded every day how much you dislike how that fix has limited the building, you may regret not exploring more options now even if expensive. I don't know your budget, but to me this would be worth delaying the build a year if necessary to cover the cost.
Either way, good luck!

 

[PT Doc]

Would it be possible to increase the height of the foundation, keep the current garage floor and pour a new one on steel beams at the correct height?

 

[lakeroadster]

Thanks to everyone here that's offered helpful and useful advice so far. I'll continue to update after me and the contractor come to an agreement and we can determine that it's possible to add extra courses of block.

Keep the faith. Looking forward to the updates.

 

[lawfarm]

Have you ever determined if they delivered 12" of drop over 12'?

 

[MikeF2316]

Love this feature.

Yes, it's nice. Too bad the ones on my list are often quoted ad nauseam. And this one likes to delete his posts too.

 

[58Yeoman]

Yes, it's nice. Too bad the ones on my list are often quoted ad nauseam. And this one likes to delete his posts too.

Yeah...and I've only got one on my list.

 

[apollo11]

. The concrete work is done and I gave them a check. Now I can't get the contractor to call me back, which is why i'm near considering cancelling the check.

FYI: That check was cashed within minutes of you giving it to them.

 

[redsand187]

Have you ever determined if they delivered 12" of drop over 12'?

And yes the drop off is worse than 12".

So even if the verbal authorization is valid, the product delivered is not what was authorized.

There then comes the issue of authorization. The buyer likely did not contract or enter in any sort of agreement with the sub-contractor. A 3rd party cannot alter a contract. The General Contractor contracted the sub. The sub contractor altering their scope of work without authorization from their contracted party puts them in hot water. It also puts the GC in hot water, as the buyer and the GC are contracted, and now the GC cannot meet the terms of the contract.

This would be something I would push hard on.

I would tend to want to cover the cost of the materials for the original job and the fix, with the contractor/sub eating all labor costs for both the original job and the fix. So say if the original work was supposed to be $5000, $3000 being materials, $2000 being labor, and the fix will also cost $3000 in materials, I would be willing to lay out an extra $1000, and them applying the $2000 you were paying in labor to the material cost.

If the site wasn't graded 5 feet, I would expect to be credited/reimbursed for the entire grading job. Technically, their failure to grade to the contracted spec, and then proceeding with laying the foundation would make the whole thing their fault.

 

[ant.foste]

OP should have never entered into a verbal change order with the sub; a contractor performing work with whom the OP had not contracted. Cancelling the check to the GC would be a grievous misstep, but we've already moved past that.

The GC is not on the hook for any of this and any effort made by the GC to remedy this situation is in good faith by the GC and likely with the simple intent to just get the project completed so he can move on.

OP messed up.
Sub messed up.
GC is trapped in the middle.

If this build continues to move forward, the only person you (OP) give direction to is the GC. You can ask questions of the subs about your build, but the only person on that entire project that works for you and reports to you is the GC, or anyone you happen to contract and hire directly. Proper pecking orders and an established chain of command exist for good reason. Follow the system and this whole build should smooth out and stay on plan as long as your GC is a quality person and a comfortable agreement can be had regarding this massive communication failure that created this thread.

Best regards,

 

[Platonic Solid]

ant.foste – Your statements are contradictory:

Proper pecking orders and an established chain of command exist for good reason.

The GC is not on the hook for any of this ...

The GC became responsible when they made the drawings, signed the contract, accepted payment and hired the sub.

 

[K13]

Yes, it's nice. Too bad the ones on my list are often quoted ad nauseam. And this one likes to delete his posts too.

Never understood the ignore button, if you don't like what someone posts just don't read their posts pretty simple. If you don't have the will power to not read them then you don't really want to ignore them and like the drama.

 

[MikeF2316]

Never understood the ignore button, if you don't like what someone posts just don't read their posts pretty simple. If you don't have the will power to not read them then you don't really want to ignore them and like the drama.

I don't want to keep derailing this thread, but when posts are "ignored" they take up a tiny slice of screen and are skipped more quickly. I generally scan quotes to see what the poster is replying to. It's not so much necessary as a nice feature. It would be even better if the slice of screen was zero - i.e. as if the post didn't exist. If I don't care what he wrote, I don't care that he wrote something.

 

[tapered-pin]

The GC became responsible when they made the drawings, signed the contract, accepted payment and hired the sub.

NO, the GC is only responsible for items SPECIFICALLY LISTED in the contract.
unless "sitework/grading" is listed, he's not responsible.

the $3500(ish) in the price was for block foundation work (clearly shown on the plans).

there's no site plan showing existing and future grades (or narrative describing the work), therefore the GC is NOT responsible for any work with that regard.

the architectural plan that shows the ground outside the exterior wall is for illustrative purposes only, there's no direction there showing to what elevation the exterior ground shall be modified.

 

[lakeroadster]

NO, the GC is only responsible for items SPECIFICALLY LISTED in the contract.
unless "sitework/grading" is listed, he's not responsible.

the $3500(ish) in the price was for block foundation work (clearly shown on the plans).

there's no site plan showing existing and future grades (or narrative describing the work), therefore the GC is NOT responsible for any work with that regard.

the architectural plan that shows the ground outside the exterior wall is for illustrative purposes only, there's no direction there showing to what elevation the exterior ground shall be modified.

And that's why, as GMCGarage pointed out....

The drawings should have elevations, or a reference from a fixed point.

Then the GC would have been responsible and liable.

 

[EnchantedForest]

UPDATE:

I've worked with the General contractor and the masonry contractor to come up with an engineered solution. A state licensed engineer designed and stamped the plans. Two courses of block (fully grouted) were added and pinned to the existing wall with rebar and embedded with epoxy. Then crushed stone backfill and another 4" 4000 psi concrete slab was poured on top. This gave me 16" of added height. After making more exact measurements, 16" was more accurate than the rough 18" I thought I might need before. Now the level of the garage floor is above grade vs the alley. I decided to forgo the front apron due to the cost and questionable value (the cost of raising just the 3' apron was 1/3 of the cost of raising the slab alone). Currently I have crushed stone in front as the driveway and plan to either finish this with asphalt or concrete this at a later date.

As far as cost goes, I pretty much ended up on the hook for the materials and labor. I can give figures if anyone is interested. I can say this, it was absolutely worth raising the slab rather than dealing with the silly drop off and scraping the front fascia off my cars. Now I don't feel aggravated every time I look at the concrete, and can actually start looking forward to my new garage.

Construction on the building itself is schedule to start this Friday. I can continue to update if everyone is still interested.

 

[garagelogician]

Good to hear you got it sorted out to your satisfaction, even if it did cost you more.

 

[Hilltopmasonry]

UPDATE:



I've worked with the General contractor and the masonry contractor to come up with an engineered solution. A state licensed engineer designed and stamped the plans. Two courses of block (fully grouted) were added and pinned to the existing wall with rebar and embedded with epoxy. Then crushed stone backfill and another 4" 4000 psi concrete slab was poured on top. This gave me 16" of added height. After making more exact measurements, 16" was more accurate than the rough 18" I thought I might need before. Now the level of the garage floor is above grade vs the alley. I decided to forgo the front apron due to the cost and questionable value (the cost of raising just the 3' apron was 1/3 of the cost of raising the slab alone). Currently I have crushed stone in front as the driveway and plan to either finish this with asphalt or concrete this at a later date.



As far as cost goes, I pretty much ended up on the hook for the materials and labor. I can give figures if anyone is interested. I can say this, it was absolutely worth raising the slab rather than dealing with the silly drop off and scraping the front fascia off my cars. Now I don't feel aggravated every time I look at the concrete, and can actually start looking forward to my new garage.



Construction on the building itself is schedule to start this Friday. I can continue to update if everyone is still interested.

Looks great, it's awesome that you were able to raise it up where it should be! in the end no matter what the cost was you will be much happier

Keep us updated with your progress


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[ard]

Man, that will be a FLOOR!

 

[The Tool Tyrant]

Sorry for what you had to go through, but glad you got it resolved. I'd be willing to bet that the GC had a little chat with the mason regarding making plan changes without consulting him first...I know I would have.
I will agree that ALL parties involved made mistakes.
1) The mason should not have gotten you involved without involving the GC.
2) You should not have agreed to the change without involving the GC.
3) The GC should have visited the site prior to pouring the slab to verify everything was in order.

 

[lakeroadster]

And the build is once again moving forward. That's great EnchantedForest, thanks for sharing.

Please update us when the lumber starts being set in place... looking forward to your adventure.

 

[MikeF2316]

Hahaha, of course we're interested. Nice to see the garage floor is at the correct level.

 

[EnchantedForest]

It's happening.

Four walls up with sheathing and house wrap, windows installed and end trusses. This literally took four guys less than an hour and half. They started at 7 AM and this is what it looked like when I left for work a little before 8:30 AM. They told me they'd be done by 1 PM today with the exception of the garage doors.

 

[The Tool Tyrant]

An hour and a half? Unless they showed up with a trailer carrying all the walls and a crane to raise them...I ain't buying it. Are you sure you're not missing a day?
No way 4 guy's started from scratch and got that much done in that short of a time frame.

 

[lakeroadster]

Sweet.. it's gonna be an awesome space

 

[EnchantedForest]

An hour and a half? Unless they showed up with a trailer carrying all the walls and a crane to raise them...I ain't buying it. Are you sure you're not missing a day?
No way 4 guy's started from scratch and got that much done in that short of a time frame.

You're right, they didn't start stick building it from scratch.

I didn't watch every step of the way from the very beginning since I was getting ready for work, but I assure you my time frame is accurate. Yesterday there was nothing but concrete. From what I saw, it looked like they had the walls on a flatbed, partially prebuilt. Maybe 8' or so sections already framed with sheathing and partially wrapped. They threw up the walls and mounted them together in sections. Then put the windows in, then the end trusses. There's no lift or crane on site either. I thought they would use a lift for the walls and trusses too. Sort of a half prebuilt/modular style I guess. I have an action camera aimed out of the window in the back of my house taking a time lapsed video. I can maybe add that later to show you the progress.

I may have had some struggles with the foundation work, but I can tell you, the Amish work amazingly fast. They told me they'd be out of there by 1 PM today.

 

[yeldogt]

Good luck .. I'm surprised you could build a garage so close to the other house.

 

[EnchantedForest]

Good luck .. I'm surprised you could build a garage so close to the other house.

That's my house you're seeing behind the garage. Its about 15-20' from the back of my house.

 

[EnchantedForest]

I'm still at work, but the wife took these pictures. But as they said, they were out of there after 1PM.

 

[forAK]

Holy ****! It's like they just added water and ****! Looks great!

 

[midwestcj]

amazing that it took almost a month to sort out the foundation, but just a few hours to completely build everything else. looks good.

 

[MikeF2316]

I'm still at work, but the wife took these pictures. But as they said, they were out of there after 1PM.

Presumably where we see double studs was where the wall sections were joined. Your cars are going to be inside tomorrow! Just have a quick look for nails, they must have been flying in all directions!

 

[EnchantedForest]

Presumably where we see double studs was where the wall sections were joined. Your cars are going to be inside tomorrow! Just have a quick look for nails, they must have been flying in all directions!

Yeah it actually looks like the panels are about 12' wide. But yes, the parts with the double studs are the joined panels.

 

[EnchantedForest]

Here is the time lapse of the building going up. Unfortunately the angle is from the back of the garage, so once its up, there isn't much to watch. I left it unedited so you can get an idea of how much day there was left after they finished.

 

[LB-1911]

Great to read and see it worked out for you.
Man door steps and walk to house a spring project?

 

[EnchantedForest]

Great to read and see it worked out for you.
Man door steps and walk to house a spring project?

Yeah I need to build a small deck and stairs with a walkway now very badly. I think I'm going to try to tackle that myself before winter. Right now its a bit of a mess with some pavers I set so we don't have to walk through a mud pit. I'm planning on just building a pressure treated wood deck about 6'x6' in size, with a set of stairs leading down to either a new paver path, or I may build a wood path.

The garage doors are getting installed today with preparation for side mount garage door openers. I'm planning on two Liftmaster 8500 units.

I'm also going to need gutters installed. We had one rain so far and the water coming off the back of the garage roof toward the house is no good without a gutter.

And of course electric is also on the to do list. I'm probably going with a 60amp subpanel (home service is 100amp). I've rewired my house and replaced the circuit panel before, so I'm pretty confident about doing that myself. I'm probably going to rent a trencher, and run 2" PVC conduit. I haven't spec'd the proper wire size yet. But, yeah, the building is up, but lots more work left to do.

 

[madmaxnj]

How about a few more pics of the garage? Did they come back and put on garage doors, or do they leave that up to you?

thanks

 

[EnchantedForest]

I need to take some better pictures, but this is what I have for now.

They subbed the garage door job out but that was included in the package. The steel garage doors were installed the Monday after the garage was put up. I had some gutters installed too, but that part was out of my own pocket. I'm pretty happy with how it turned out overall. The crew doing the masonry work was a different crew than the one that did the structure and I have no complaints about the structure so far. Well, the only thing I don't like is the smell of the OSB inside. I don't like spending too much time in there as is until the smell off-gases a bit.

I still need to have a porch / stair system built for the side man door that's currently 3 feet in the air. I'm debating on doing this myself vs contracting it out. I'm open to any creative ideas for the stair and walkway system.

Also I still need to do the electric run. I may start another thread to ask for critiques of my wiring plan.