New Snap-On F100

[Caa311]

Kind of looks like the ko-ken design.

 

[Caa311]

I responded before I read your whole post Samuel, It looks like the pawl is two pieces.

Kind of looks like the ko-ken design.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

That’s more like it!

Maybe the camera operator in the first video you posted was told not to get close because the demo ratchet with the transparent cover was just an old Dual 80.


That’s actually quite different from the Dual 80. Still hard to decipher how it works from the grainy frame grabs. But this is certainly intriguing. Hints of Ko-ken’s designs that we know to have very low back-drag.

I think it’s fascinating that there’s still room to improve the ratchet, the basic mechanism of which humans have been using for over a thousand years.

I'm curious to know the failure point.

On the dual 80s, the "W" spring which preloads the pawl gets weak. That's why they normally slip, then grab, when the mechanism is worn. In a pinch, you can open them up and bend the spring a bit with your fingers, back in business.

I'd be curious to see the single springs on the individual pawls.

 

[DavidtheDuke]

That’s more like it!

Maybe the camera operator in the first video you posted was told not to get close because the demo ratchet with the transparent cover was just an old Dual 80.

Yeah the more I look at it they're obviously different even w/ the grainy pic of the first one.

That’s actually quite different from the Dual 80. Still hard to decipher how it works from the grainy frame grabs. But this is certainly intriguing. Hints of Ko-ken’s designs that we know to have very low back-drag.

I think it’s fascinating that there’s still room to improve the ratchet, the basic mechanism of which humans have been using for over a thousand years.

Maybe SO is even licensing Koken's design like they did with wobble plus? Might be what's going on if you guys think they're so similar.

 

[merkyworks]

 

[Kscardsfan]

OP good info on the F100. Probably the Pros will get them first via truck, cheapskates DIYer like me probably not the target market. I will definitely buy one putting it on the Christmas list.

I too am the cheapskate DIY, who genuinely wants one, but can't justify it in a million years.

 

[DemoFly]

Dang, not a fan of the font they chose on the F100.

 

[Wamsutta]

Dang, not a fan of the font they chose on the F100.

Read Post #38.

 

[liliysdad]

I find it hilarious that people have an opinion on the font on their ratchet.

 

[DemoFly]

I find it hilarious that people have an opinion on the font on their ratchet.

Why? It's uglier than the one they've had. Looks like a private label product.

Glad it's only temporary.

 

[scooby074]

I like the retro script ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[joel63]

I find it hilarious that people have an opinion on the font on their ratchet.

You have to know that fonts on tools is some major serious business.
It drives the desirability in choosing a tool brand.

 

[dallastide]

I kind of like the script logo as well. Especially if they are only doing it for a limited run. Will be cool to have one in the collection.

 

[wafrederick]

There are dealers saying it is a copy of the Harbor Freight ratchets.MrSubaru1387 put out a video on it,One ratchet looks like a copy of the Pittsburgh ratchets

 

[TheToolEnthusiast]

Except Harbor Freight doesn’t have a 100 tooth ratchet.

 

[F-22]

I like the retro script ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Also my main reason why I'd want one. Too bad buying from Snap On is so hard in Europe.

 

[Wamsutta]

There are dealers saying it is a copy of the Harbor Freight ratchets.MrSubaru1387 put out a video on it,One ratchet looks like a copy of the Pittsburgh ratchets

Snap-on has never copied another company's design. It's always been the other way around.

 

[F-22]

never

Pretty sure Snap On hasn't invented all hand tools.

 

[Wamsutta]

Pretty sure Snap On hasn't invented all hand tools.

They go back over a hundred years, so a lot of their designs originated from them.

 

[F-22]

They go back over a hundred years, so a lot of their designs originated from them.

Yes Snap On was founded in 1920, 103 years ago. That is very late in the grand scheme. By 1920 most basic hand tools already existed and any company from that time could only rely on already existing patterns to continue produciton. I seriously doubt they actually invented any new hand tool. Ratcheting wrenches and sockets actually existed half a century before the company was founded. They did make them more popular and improved on them a lot (like flank drive). Screwdrivers, pliers, hammers, wrenches... Those existed even for way longer.

Companies like Klein, Hazet and Knipex are 50-60 years older than Snap On.

 

[Samuel D]

F-22’s good points notwithstanding, more tools are copies of Snap-on’s innovations, refinements, and look-and-feel than the other way around.

As for Snap-on copying Harbor Freight (Icon?) this time, I wonder what is meant by that claim. If, as I suspect, it is just that the soft handle is red and black and shaped similarly, surely it’s obvious that that is because Harbor Freight copied the basic shape and colour scheme as closely as they dared from Snap-on’s Dual 80 generation in the first place?

And Harbor Freight clearly used 90 teeth to just beat the standard set by Snap-on (80 teeth). Like many other ratchet handles, especially on the American market, the Icon was specifically targeted at the customer expectations established by Snap-on.

But the Icon ratchet mechanism seems to be completely different from the new Snap-on, from what I can gather from Google. (Harbor Freight is one of the dumb American companies that block me from seeing their website because I’m not in the US, so I can’t gather as much as I’d like.)

 

[merkyworks]

I think the comparison of F100 to HF was purely aesthetics, mainly the two tone handle. From a ratchet mechanism standpoint Icon, Dual 80 and F100 are all different from each other.

 

[M635_Guy]

F-22’s good points notwithstanding, more tools are copies of Snap-on’s innovations, refinements, and look-and-feel than the other way around.

As for Snap-on copying Harbor Freight (Icon?) this time, I wonder what is meant by that claim. If, as I suspect, it is just that the soft handle is red and black and shaped similarly, surely it’s obvious that that is because Harbor Freight copied the basic shape and colour scheme as closely as they dared from Snap-on’s Dual 80 generation in the first place?

And Harbor Freight clearly used 90 teeth to just beat the standard set by Snap-on (80 teeth). Like many other ratchet handles, especially on the American market, the Icon was specifically targeted at the customer expectations established by Snap-on.

But the Icon ratchet mechanism seems to be completely different from the new Snap-on, from what I can gather from Google. (Harbor Freight is one of the dumb American companies that block me from seeing their website because I’m not in the US, so I can’t gather as much as I’d like.)

Bizarre post. You believe that Snap On invented a bunch of stuff, but you don't know what stuff they actually invented... lol

At the end of the day, Snap On has "copied" lots of core tool designs (as they're of course allowed to as patents, etc. expire) and have refined them in many ways, often with patented designs of their own. I might be wrong, but my recollection is the Dual 80 mechanism was originally designed by Bahco and SnapOn bought them.

In and of itself, that matters less than their quality, which for hand-tools I think its fair to say they're at the top of the industry.

The Icon ratchet uses a very standard pawl design that has nothing to do with SnapOn. They didn't use 90 teeth to "beat" SnapOn (lol) - it's a fairly standard number in the industry. The "tooth war" could be more fairly aimed at GearWrench with their 120XP and Husky with their 144 tooth (effective - it's a staggered pawl) offerings.

In practice, my Snap On and Icon ratchets feel similar and function perfectly. My SK is probably a distant third in terms of feel (of course it works fine too).

 

[joel63]

Question is, is there a limit to the number of teeth that a 3/8 ratchet can have?
Or is 360 a practical number?
Just asking.

 

[dallastide]

Question is, is there a limit to the number of teeth that a 3/8 ratchet can have?
Or is 360 a practical number?
Just asking.

The sound would be glorious

 

[gatewaysysop]

I have F80's, but still like using my F830's and F936's.
For me, they work.

Yep. Same here. The sound and the feel are a joy to use on the older ratchets. The F80 is nice but for me just doesn't feel the same without a nice crisp click. Don't get me wrong, they're nice when you need the reduced swing, but it leaves me wanting otherwise.

 

[toddmorr]

got on the truck today and the guy is saying December for availability, at least in our area Maryland. He twice mentioned the smaller head, and of course the 100 tooth. Also that pricing would be similar to the Dual 80s.

very curious to see how the ratcheting mechanism actually feels because 90+ teeth in and of itself is no big deal. If they can carry over the distinctive feel of the Dual 80 i'll likely buy.

 

[M635_Guy]

I think the comparison of F100 to HF was purely aesthetics, mainly the two tone handle. From a ratchet mechanism standpoint Icon, Dual 80 and F100 are all different from each other.

That looks like a pretty-different take on a dual-pawl design. I wonder if it will be a new patent?

 

[Low Class Yuppie]

My Snap-On guy says he'll have these on the truck next Thursday. I'll try to get a feel for them and snap some pics if I can; hell, I might even buy one if there's a 1/4" drive locking flex quick release option.

 

[demarpaint]

My Snap-On guy says he'll have these on the truck next Thursday. I'll try to get a feel for them and snap some pics if I can; hell, I might even buy one if there's a 1/4" drive locking flex quick release option.

Keep us updated. The first run in going to be in 3/8" drive according to my guy and they won't be around until after the first of the year.

 

[Bubba Fett]

Question is, is there a limit to the number of teeth that a 3/8 ratchet can have?
Or is 360 a practical number?
Just asking.

I feel like we are already approaching the law of diminishing returns.

 

[merkyworks]

I feel like we are already approaching the law of diminishing returns.

Snap On executives be like….

 

[F-22]

I feel like we are already approaching the law of diminishing returns.

With the current ratchet mechanisms, I think that's true. But there is probably room for improving on the tooth-less mechanisms/clutches in ratchets (making them smaller).

 

[d.mcfarland]

McDonald's didn't invent the hamburger, but they revolutionize the distribution of it.

 

[Wamsutta]

McDonald's didn't invent the hamburger, but they revolutionize the distribution of it.

You mean the drive thru?

 

[merkyworks]

You mean the drive thru?

Dave Thomas/Wendy’s revolutionized the drive thru system was we know it today.

What @d.mcfarland is talking about it the assembly line style of making a hamburger that the McDonald’s brothers came up with. Ordering a burger and having it ready 30 seconds later, that was revolutionary back in late 40’s/early 50’s

 

[merkyworks]

There is defiantly room for improvement even at 80-100 tooth counts, "easy" ones are:

• Lower back drag
• Reduce anvil play

 

[2ndGearRubber]

There is defiantly room for improvement even at 80-100 tooth counts, "easy" ones are:

• Lower back drag
• Reduce anvil play

Exactly, it's all about function, usability, and durability.

Dual 80 is a solid ratchet. But improvemts can always be made.

 

[dallastide]

They can absolutely keep improving it. In fact they have to in order to stay relevant with so much competition these days.

But with any technology the improvements over time become more and more incremental. Just look at the new iphone lol.

 

[HannibalLecter]

There is defiantly room for improvement even at 80-100 tooth counts, "easy" ones are:

• Lower back drag
• Reduce anvil play

That's what Koken thought and then did