Old Walden Worcester

[Farmer J.]

but the green is a thick tacky type paint.

John Deere green enamel. Some farmer or JD enthusiast PO painted the box to match his other stuff. People do that. Simplest explanation for the one box found so far in this remarkably familiar shade and texture of bright green.

 

[d42jeep]

FTR: unless I'm mistaken, I've got older WW boxes that are dark olive green, like some of Don's, as well as the lighter green.
No reason for me to think any of them were repainted anywhere along the way.

Here are some Walden boxes that are the dark olive green color. This color is less popular and these boxes all have the 5 element hinges.
-Don

 

[mritchie77]

I received a generous care package from Don yesterday, and now that cad plated set I picked up last month is in a new case of the correct color.

 

[MisterEd]

Walden-Worcester 1110-12 1/2 Inch Drive Socket USN

 

[d42jeep]

Nice find. It seems to have been part of this set in 1944.
-Don

 

[MisterEd]

It seems to have been part of this set in 1944.

Whoa! You're a remarkable source of information. Thanks, Don.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

Here's a 13/16 stamped standard oil. I've seen a few of these so there must have been quite a few at one time.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

Some stevens spintites. The tan one is later and marked walden.

 

[Targa68]

A Walden-Worcester 916 ratchet, with a 1109 drive plug.

Ratchet is working well and is, according to Alloy Artifacts, from the 1930's.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

Always wondered why they offset the heads on those. Looks like a nice one!

 

[RTM]

This falls into the "barely vintage" category, a Walden Hamerench No. 4705 Impact Driver. Looks like someone lost / broke the pin, and replaced it with a screw instead of the pin and ring. This might have been an extra tossed into the box post the Original Owner retiring.




Not too many references on the net to this, found it in a 1973 Lafayette catalog, and a couple of Worthpoint listings. There was a Thor No. 603 Pneumatic Hammer Wrench in 1935-37, but I guess they didn't trademark it.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Always wondered why they offset the heads on those.

Good question. I have a couple Walden 516 ratchets in my No. 8 and No. 16 wood box sets, and I know why they look like they have an offset head. The pawl is extra long and not centered. It's on the side, and it's the opposite side from the offset. Bellows called the pawl "longitudinal" in his patents and claimed it withstood more turning force that way. So that offset look that was characteristic of all their early ratchets is not by design so much as an artifact of that being the only way they could reduce the width. Patent drawing on DATAMP linked here.

Having said that, I don't know if that's the case with the 916. I know they made an OR916 that was not "offset", but that was an open gear rocker rat. Maybe it has something to do with the detent I see. I don't have a 916 so I've never inspected one up close. Perhaps Targa 68 or someone else who has one can explain what that detent is for. Maybe oil.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

Might be interesting to take one apart

 

[four.cycle]

By 1932 the OR916 ratchet had been superseded by the 916 ratchet in the standard socket sets, according to Walden catalog No. 117.

Always wondered why they offset the heads on those.

Intriguing question.
Mr. Bellows seems to have had a propensity for designing ratchets with offset heads, which isn't the case on contemporaneous designs from other makers (e.g., Wakefield patent 963895) but they employed completely different mechanisms:


patent 1281484 Oct 15 1918 W.S. Bellows

patent 1240467 Jun 20 1922

 

[four.cycle]

1927 Honeyman Hardware Catalog pp 450 Walden Worcester OR916 1/2" square female drive ratchet

1932 Farwell Ozmun Kirk & Co. catalog pp 2575 Walden Worcester A2285 5/8" square female drive ratchet

1935 Farwell Ozmun Kirk & Co. catalog pp 3606 Walden Worcester A2285 5/8" square female drive ratchet

1940 Stevens Walden catalog pp 6 Walden Worcester 916 1/2" square female drive ratchet
(* the 1941 Stevens Walden catalog is available for download at ITCL. this is the earliest document I have that shows this model. *)

1944 Sevens Walden catalog pp 10 Walden Worcester 916 1/2" square female drive ratchet
(* note "artists rendition" of item does not show it having the offset head *)

I do not find a patent number applicable to that model.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

I have an OR916 handy. Looks like a typical open gear type ratchet, very heavy though.

 

[four.cycle]

^ The earliest showing I have of that monstrous A2285 5/8" square female drive model is in that catalog from 1932 - the same year that AA says the 1/2" square female drive model 916 was issued.
I posted the photo of the A2285 because it appears to be very similar in design to the 916 model posted above by Targa68.

Purely wild speculation on my part, but considering the number of patents issued to Warren S. Bellows, and the number of times his name appears on datamp.org pages at lower left under "witnesses", I'm inclined to think that he applied for or was issued a patent on that 916.
If NOT, is it using the same internals as those earlier two?
I tend to doubt that.

And yes, it would be most interesting to see exactly what's inside that thing.

 

[d42jeep]

My 716 is offset.
This one isn’t.
-Don

 

[Oldtuleguy]

The "OR" I suspect stands for open ratchet

 

[four.cycle]

Don's 716 is at least 100 years and 5 months old now.
"OR" = open ratchet?
WWORS?
(what would Occam's Razor say?)

 

[Private Lugnutz]

@Targa68
Just in case you miss it with all the ensuing posts, at the end of my post #412 above, after I explain the patented mechanical reason for the characteristic offset in the early Bellows patents, and why there is no need for such an offset in the later more conventional open gear rocker rats, I am inquiring about the detent ball under the shoulder of the offset in your 916. Is it a grease or oil port? Or does it possibly release that piece of metal for access to the internals?

 

[Targa68]

@Targa68
Just in case you miss it with all the ensuing posts, at the end of my post #412 above, after I explain the patented mechanical reason for the characteristic offset in the early Bellows patents, and why there is no need for such an offset in the later more conventional open gear rocker rats, I am inquiring about the detent ball under the shoulder of the offset in your 916. Is it a grease or oil port? Or does it possibly release that piece of metal for access to the internals?

I really don't know what this ball does?
I have tried moving it, to see if it is spring supported but it is fixed. To get any oil in, seems difficult, and to open this ratchet I believe you will have to grind off the rivets?

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Hmm. I wonder if it's just frozen. I'd be tempted to pop it hard with a hammer. But I don't blame you if you're concerned about breaking it. The purpose is a real head scratcher.

 

[four.cycle]

oh hell... I didn't realize it was riveted.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

If I come across a busted one I'll open it up. Don't want to ruin a nice one

 

[four.cycle]

Walden 1151 1/2" drive RHFT ratchet with George Jetson handle. Found it digging through a box of stuff:

 

[d42jeep]

The selector on my 1151 is a bit different.
-Don

 

[four.cycle]

^ I don't think I have that one here.... there was another member trying to fix a 4051, which is what I was looking for. Not really sure if I have one now... I might have gotten mixed up... too many tools here, maybe.

 

[kwigly]

Here's three old Walden Rochester socket tools I picked up recently. (I'm a sucker for any old hand tool with patent hints stamped on them that I can research).

• Pat Oct 22 1918; 2716 1/2" Tee, and 6018 9/16 speeder (with a nifty ball end). This is W S Bellows patent 1282028 for a fixed socket on a bar/handle
• Pat No 1559543; X1960 3/4" horned bar socket. This is the F W Bellows patent of Nov 3 1925, also for a fixed socket on a bar/handle (I assume W S Bellows and F H Bellows were related ?) This one is actually marked "Stevens-Walden", so made after the 1926 name change

I am somewhat amazed that a simple fixing a socket to a bar/handle with no moving parts was patentable (the speeder ball moves, but this was not part of the patent)
Alloy Artifacts has a good article on Walden-Rochester's long and prolific production history

 

[Blackduck]

Hello, this is my first post, hope this is the right place for it. Came across this old box on marketplace.. Mainly wanted the snapon ratchet. Was wondering if anyone could date the walden 1/2" drive set?

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Do you know what the box is? WWII Ordnance Dept GMTK or Signal Corps TE-6, their largest carry box. Did you remove the data plate? Or was it like that? My hunch would be Signal Corps. That was a prominent location for their data plates.

 

[Blackduck]

I assume it is WW2 vintage? There was no data plate when I got it.

 

[Blackduck]

I assume it is WW2 vintage? There was no data plate when I got it.

Here are some more pics of the Walden tools

 

[Old Radar]

Hello, this is my first post, hope this is the right place for it. Came across this old box on marketplace.. Mainly wanted the snapon ratchet. Was wondering if anyone could date the walden 1/2" drive set?

Welcome to GJ, @Blackduck. According to Alloy Artifacts, Walden started using the term "Chrome Alloy" by 1930 until about 1940. Linked here around the middle of the page.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I assume it is WW2 vintage?

Yes. The WW socket set is not, though. It's prewar, as OR said. I have a few pieces, and I have seen others. Quite rare, to be honest.

 

[Blackduck]

Thanks guys, for the welcome and good info. It's interesting to know the WW set is rare. I am also interested in the GMTK box. It might be fun to see what I can put together there.. I'm 61 and have a lot of my fathers and grandfather's tools, not to mention what I have accumulated over the years. Thanks again!

 

[leg17]

Thanks guys, for the welcome and good info. It's interesting to know the WW set is rare. I am also interested in the GMTK box. It might be fun to see what I can put together there.. I'm 61 and have a lot of my fathers and grandfather's tools, not to mention what I have accumulated over the years. Thanks again!

Hang around. You might like it.
(But try not go get any rust in any open wounds. The disease is incurable.)
Most of us are now on borrowed time.

 

[Blackduck]

Hang around. You might like it.
(But try not go get any rust in any open wounds. The disease is incurable.)
Most of us are now on borrowed time.

I know what you mean! I've always had an appreciation for "old" stuff!
I gave the Walden Worcester set its own home.
Don't know where this box came from, but seems to fit.

 

[Old Radar]

^^^ You might research Walden tool catalogs at archive.org to see what set you have and whether you're missing any pieces.

 

[Blackduck]

^^^ You might research Walden tool catalogs at archive.org to see what set you have and whether you're missing any pieces.

Thanks OR. I just looked through the 1932 catalog. It has the 800 series, heavy walled chrome alloy sockets. That would put the set right in the 1930s like you said. Now it looks like I need a 916 ratchet!