Old work box for 2" thick walls
- Thread starter Paulski
- Start date
Zeke
Well-known member
What is 2"? The thickness of the wall, the cavity, or the distance from the face of the wall to the back? There are some specialty boxes that are available.
dave*99
Well-known member
Madison bars
The wall is 2" thick (tile, mortar, some sort of backer board/drywall), the cavity is is ~5 1/2" deep from the face of the tile to the back of the wall cavity
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sparky 1971
Well-known member
There are plenty. It's going to require a trip to the nearest box store. Don't forget that all kitchen counter receptacles are supposed to have GFCI protection. I don't think a GFCI receptacle will fit in a shallow box, but I've never tried.
www.menards.com
www.menards.com
Carlon 1-Gang 8 cu. in. Electrical PVC Shallow Flanged Old Work Electrical Switch and Oulet Box (B108R-UPC) B108R-UPC - The Home Depot
Safely split and branch into different directions with the selection of this Carlon Blue PVC 1-Gang Flanged Shallow Old Work Electrical Outlet Box.
www.homedepot.com
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Carlon-...ical-Switch-and-Outlet-Box-
117RSWR/202077341
1-Gang 17 Cu.In. Shallow PVC Old Work Electrical Outlet/Switch Box
1-Gang 17 Cu.In. Shallow Old Work Electrical Outlet/Switch Box
www.menards.com
RACO 1-1/2" Galvanized Steel Electrical Switch/Outlet Box
The RACO® two-by-three-inch, one-gang Galvanized Steel Electrical Switch Box is 1-1/2 inches deep and non-gangable. Switch boxes are used to house devices such as switches or outlets.
www.menards.com
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I think OP means his wall veneer is 2" thick and a 5-1/2 cavity . the issue is mounting the box to the studs.
can you get in to add some wood blocking or something to secure the box to? or secure a block by screwing from the other side of the wall to mount the box on? or mount a cleat to the back of the wall with screws to mount the box to ?
can you get in to add some wood blocking or something to secure the box to? or secure a block by screwing from the other side of the wall to mount the box on? or mount a cleat to the back of the wall with screws to mount the box to ?
I am using a GFCI, I got a 3 1/2" deep old work PVC box, but the tabs only go back 1 1/2" so it wont reach behind the mortar to clamp. Longer screws will push the tab way past the track they ride in that keeps them vertical.There are plenty. It's going to require a trip to the nearest box store. Don't forget that all kitchen counter receptacles are supposed to have GFCI protection. I don't think a GFCI receptacle will fit in a shallow box, but I've never tried.
Carlon 1-Gang 8 cu. in. Electrical PVC Shallow Flanged Old Work Electrical Switch and Oulet Box (B108R-UPC) B108R-UPC - The Home Depot
Safely split and branch into different directions with the selection of this Carlon Blue PVC 1-Gang Flanged Shallow Old Work Electrical Outlet Box.www.homedepot.com
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Carlon-...ical-Switch-and-Outlet-Box- 117RSWR/202077341
1-Gang 17 Cu.In. Shallow PVC Old Work Electrical Outlet/Switch Box
1-Gang 17 Cu.In. Shallow Old Work Electrical Outlet/Switch BoxRACO 1-1/2" Galvanized Steel Electrical Switch/Outlet Box
The RACO® two-by-three-inch, one-gang Galvanized Steel Electrical Switch Box is 1-1/2 inches deep and non-gangable. Switch boxes are used to house devices such as switches or outlets.
I saw the metal boxes with the plaster ears, but I don't think there is enough tile to drill and use wall anchors, plus the GFCI wouldn't fit in the box, the ground screw stuck out to far and hit the bottom of the box
dave*99
Well-known member
A smart box could work if there is a stud along side the opening . Substitute longer screws if needed.
dave*99
Well-known member
Metal box with Madison bars. No wall anchors needed.
gahrajmahal
Well-known member
I think I’d mount my GFCI in a water tight box under the sink cabinet, then daisy chain the others from there. I like the looks of that smart box. Where do you buy them?
sparky 1971
Well-known member
I misunderstood the original post, you explained it while I was making my post.
Use longer screws for the pvc box? I'd get one of these and use a longer screw. I do it with old work light boxes all the time. You could also shorten the bracket with some snips.
Allied Moulded FiberglasBox Old Work 16 cu in Square Fiberglass 1 gang Outlet Box Beige Mfr# H9361=ESK - Ace Hardware
Single gang electrical box for use with non-metallic sheathed cable.Find the BOX SGL GNG FBGLS 16CU at Ace.
www.acehardware.com
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sparky 1971
Well-known member
I've seen long Madison bars that would work with two layers of drywall, but I don't think they would work with 2" wall covering. I have the standard depth on my van and I know they won't work.
dave*99
Well-known member
Most are 1.5”. But the photo I posted are 2.5”. That might work. But if a stud is there a smart box would be good.
The Allied box looks like it may work with that style of clamp on the back, Thanks!I misunderstood the original post, you explained it while I was making my post.
Use longer screws for the pvc box? I'd get one of these and use a longer screw. I do it with old work light boxes all the time. You could also shorten the bracket with some snips.
Allied Moulded FiberglasBox Old Work 16 cu in Square Fiberglass 1 gang Outlet Box Beige Mfr# H9361=ESK - Ace Hardware
Single gang electrical box for use with non-metallic sheathed cable.Find the BOX SGL GNG FBGLS 16CU at Ace.
dave*99
Well-known member
Southwire Smart Box 1-Gang Adjustable Depth Device Box MSB1G - The Home Depot
Visit The Home Depot to buy Madison Electric Products Smart Box 1-Gang Adjustable Depth Device Box MSB1G
www.homedepot.com
I was concerned the screws wouldn't go into he studs to well due to the wall thickness, but I'm thinking I could mount that box further back so it screws into the studs and add a box extender to bring it flush with the wall.Southwire Smart Box 1-Gang Adjustable Depth Device Box MSB1G - The Home Depot
Visit The Home Depot to buy Madison Electric Products Smart Box 1-Gang Adjustable Depth Device Box MSB1Gwww.homedepot.com
I just found this while googling box extenders, it looks like it extends the old work tab guides too so it might work with my original old work box I was trying to use
Carlon B1MGEXT-2 Box Extender, 3-1/4 in L, 2-1/4 in W, 1-Gang, PVC, Bl
Extends an existing box by 1-1/8 in. Used to correct problems from remodeling where the wall surface is extended. Fits between the wiring device and the wall surface. Extends the switch or outlet box to flush with the wall. Works with all standard wiring devices. 2-1/4 in x 3-1/4 in. UL...
www.shelllumber.com
sparky 1971
Well-known member
If you're on a stud, just get a regular nail on box, remove the nails, and cut the nail slots off. Then you can run your own screws through the side wherever you want to. I was doing that years before I ever saw the screw on type box.I was concerned the screws wouldn't go into he studs to well due to the wall thickness, but I'm thinking I could mount that box further back so it screws into the studs and add a box extender to bring it flush with the wall.
I just found this while googling box extenders, it looks like it extends the old work tab guides too so it might work with my original old work box I was trying to use
Carlon B1MGEXT-2 Box Extender, 3-1/4 in L, 2-1/4 in W, 1-Gang, PVC, Bl
Extends an existing box by 1-1/8 in. Used to correct problems from remodeling where the wall surface is extended. Fits between the wiring device and the wall surface. Extends the switch or outlet box to flush with the wall. Works with all standard wiring devices. 2-1/4 in x 3-1/4 in. UL...
sparky 1971
Well-known member
I didn't know the deeper style were 2-1/2". I do know that nobody around me carries them and I haven't seen any in years.
Zeke
Well-known member
Technically ( I hate to cite code amongst professional electricians, but the homeowners must be made aware), screws aren't allowed inside a box unless it was designed for them like the example above. Have I ever used screws from the inside? I'll plead the 5th.
sparky 1971
Well-known member
Sometimes ya gotta do whatcha gotta do. It probably shouldn't be done with a fiberglass box though.
Using a drywall screw in place of a 6/32 to install a device is also a code violation but I've done it and so has everyone else.
Zeke
Well-known member
Now that you bring that up, no pointed end screws can be used on any device if they enter any enclosure containing wires. Again, for the posterity should those reading in the future come across this thread about attaching a box.
I really like that box with the saddle bracket in back. Been awhile since I've seen one and there isn't one in my bin of boxes.
I really like that box with the saddle bracket in back. Been awhile since I've seen one and there isn't one in my bin of boxes.
sparky 1971
Well-known member
Fixed it for you. The screws don't enter the standard plastic/pvc/ fiberglass boxes. Some metal boxes and mud rings, yes, but drywall screws don't work worth a pinch of **** in those anyway. Gonna have to use longer 6/32's on those.
Anyway, I started screwing a standard two gang box to the stud after I would remove a single gang when replacing a standard light with a ceiling fan/light or putting a quad receptacle in place of a duplex. I don't believe a smart box was a thing yet and the existing hole was always too tall for an old work box. Then Arlington came out with the One Box, much more user friendly than smart boxes. I keep two vertical and one horizontal single gang, two two gang and one three and one four gang on my truck. The problem is finding them. Menards used to stock one and two gangs but switched to Southwire. I order them in by the case from the supply house. If I didn't have one, I wouldn't wait for it when I could make my own, even if it is breaking the rules a little bit.
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Zeke
Well-known member
I was thinking of non blunted sheet metal screws on some panels where they don't go outside the panel.
sparky 1971
Well-known member
You said device. How many devices mount to panels? I see pointed sheet metal screws in panels all the time, but I don't do that one. I find it funny when a home inspector takes them out and won't put them back in. I keep a bag of Square D panel screws on hand for those $150 jobs. A Siemens or Eaton panel may not be listed for a SQD screw, but they fit.
Good find.I just found this while googling box extenders, it looks like it extends the old work tab guides too so it might work with my original old work box I was trying to use
Carlon B1MGEXT-2 Box Extender, 3-1/4 in L, 2-1/4 in W, 1-Gang, PVC, Bl
Extends an existing box by 1-1/8 in. Used to correct problems from remodeling where the wall surface is extended. Fits between the wiring device and the wall surface. Extends the switch or outlet box to flush with the wall. Works with all standard wiring devices. 2-1/4 in x 3-1/4 in. UL...
Make sure you have the correct box extender style. It appears there is an old-work box style extender (the one you want - pic on left) and also a new-work box style extender. Part #'s are very similar. Googling returns both styles under same number. You want the style with the track for the wings.
No mention of longer screws provided for the wings. May need to purchase separately?
VS. 
Worst case, go back to a steel old work box and cut your own dog ears long enough for the job.
I use a thread insert, Heli-Coil is one brand, on plastic boxes so that the OEM screws can still be used.
sparky 1971
Well-known member
I've never seen heli coils that small, but never looked either. I haven't used very many drywall screws for devices, usually on a worn out fiberglass box, but I think every smoke detector I have ever installed (1000's) has been mounted to a single gang box with two 1-1/4 drywall screws.
Not easy to find, needed 8-32 inserts for a Rockwell 1"X42" sander grinder that a screw holding the motor fan shroud had sheared off on & finally found it at one of the local NAPA branches. Not sure I have enough of the sanders though, have 3 1/2 of them, & hard to find parts for.
Zeke
Well-known member
I bought a metal lathe from a guy that used to work on model airplane motors. The sellers gave me most of the tooling some of which I never had ID'd. In the mess were many tiny insert coils for those motors. AND the tool to run them in.
Sorry Sparky, I don't always get the terminology right. and I forgot to mention I was speaking of the covers on panels, outside and deadman. I think there are a lot of incorrect deadman cover screws out there.
Sorry Sparky, I don't always get the terminology right. and I forgot to mention I was speaking of the covers on panels, outside and deadman. I think there are a lot of incorrect deadman cover screws out there.
SlappyWhite
Well-known member
Do you have anything like these available?
They are pushed in and they spring open inside the wall. You then tighten the centre screw (between the ground screws) to lock it in, they are very solid once mounted. May work with the current wall thickness, if not just use a longer middle screw.
They are pushed in and they spring open inside the wall. You then tighten the centre screw (between the ground screws) to lock it in, they are very solid once mounted. May work with the current wall thickness, if not just use a longer middle screw.
dave*99
Well-known member
Just for completeness, here is the link to deep Madison bars. As always YMMV.
That said, there are other viable solutions in this thread that would work well.
Southwire SBS-L SWITCH BOX SUPPORTS 2-1/2" PAIR
Bulk Pricing Availible On Southwire's SBS-L. Request a quote on our website. Its UPC is 785592980076
gellerlighting.com