Oops I bought a mag drill

[Iron Beaver]

I was browsing eBay and came across a Nitto Kohki QA-5000 in (appears to be) reasonable shape for a price I could (almost) afford. These drills have auto feed, more power than I could shake a stick at, a great lubrication system, and a pretty solid reputation

I tell myself that the ROI in drilled holes will be better than the typical 7-8% bandied about for a diversified stock portfolio, but really who believes that? It's an amazing powerful TOOL that will drill so many holes and be so useful and cool...

I'll post pics and more yammerings when it arrives. Until then enjoy the teaser!

 

[txvwnut]

Dammit you tease now I gotta go google it then search eBay for pricing.

 

[lis2323]

Congratulations! NK was my first choice but couldn’t find a used one at a reasonable price !

Went with “Plan B” [emoji57]




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[ecotec]

On industrial jobs, I see the millwrights an ironworkers use the Hougen ones.

 

[Lwel9226]

The Hougen's are top of the line....
I have a smaller Steelmax brand that works well in out of position jobs or overhead when necessary...

LynnW

 

[Dave455]

I’ve tended to find on eBay (here in the U.K.) that the more specialised and industrial a power tool is, the better value it tends to be!

As to “ROI”, you’re totally correct! And given the current situation in the world, I wouldn’t want any money ******* in a diversified stock portfolio anyway. I have never regretted the purchase of any power tool however!

 

[Iron Beaver]

I've never regretted a tool purchase either. As far as brand, I was down to Hougen, Fein, Nitto Kohki, or BDS Maschinen. Of these I found some old beat up Hougens, a couple of nice Fein units, and this NK in my price range. Then I saw this video

It mostly made my decision. I will probably end up with a Fein unit some day too for smaller jobs that need more portability. And then, knowing me, probably a couple more after that.

 

[ecotec]

The ones that I see, on jobs, are the smaller Hougen mag drills. I am referring to the ones without a reservoir for cutting oil.

 

[zkling]

Those are nice!

 

[FTG-05]

I'm a reasonable person: Pics or ban!

 

[tarbellb]

Watched that promotional video, stared looking at selling my near new Hougen to expense one of those beauties!

 

[Iron Beaver]

Still waiting for the brown truck....

 

[kwb]

My Mag Drill has made me more money than just about any tool in the shop. I have an old Jancy but really should get something lighter.

So nice to be able to knock out 3/4" holes in less than a minute hole to hole in 1/2" thick material.

 

[DugT]

I don't know much about tools but would a drill like this be good at drilling through the thick steel walls of a safe in a bank? A friend of mine wants to know.

 

[Lucid Moments]

I don't know much about tools but would a drill like this be good at drilling through the thick steel walls of a safe in a bank? A friend of mine wants to know.

Bank vault walls are actually heavily steel reinforced concrete. The door is a better target.

 

[matt_i]

Great tool, I roll with this Milwaukee...

 

[PhantomEB]

Just remember folks, tie those things up when in an elevated position. I am a MW by trade and have seen many get very close calls when someone unplugs the magnet or it fails.

 

[lis2323]

Bank vault walls are actually heavily steel reinforced concrete. The door is a better target.

My exothermic lance would work. Cuts through steel AND concrete. Works underwater also.





However once the door is cut any paper currency IN the vault will most likely be on fire no matter what many movies depict. [emoji23]


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[The Tool Tyrant]

Still waiting for the brown truck....

OMG...reading that made me cringe I've had the worst luck with those gorilla's trashing my shipments. UPS...Uniformed Package Smashers

 

[The Tool Tyrant]

I've never regretted a tool purchase either. As far as brand, I was down to Hougen, Fein, Nitto Kohki, or BDS Maschinen. Of these I found some old beat up Hougens, a couple of nice Fein units, and this NK in my price range. Then I saw this video

WTH??? it DOESN'T automatically move itself to the NEXT hole? What a POS!

 

[Iron Beaver]

Well, today I hauled a bunch of firewood and came home to a big heavy box sitting by the parcel drop box. I got it home and opened it, and lo and behold it contained a mag drill!

I noticed right off the bat that it wouln't sit flat so I took a look at the base and saw the evidence of plenty of careless usage:

So I spent half an hour digging all the metal chips out. Then I spent another half-hour figuring out that I had raised the motor too far up and tripped a limit switch, which was why it wouldn't turn on.

Then I tried to drill a hole. The included cutter had a grand total of one sharp tooth, the others were dull or downright broken. I was not optimistic, but wondered if it would drill it anyway.

Instead of drilling a hole, the cutter lifted the magnet off the work piece (a piece of 3/4" plate) and the drill sensed the movement, shut itself off, and clamped itself back down. So I put it in a box I had sitting around to await some sharp cutters

 

[Iron Beaver]

First impressions:

Pros:
--This thing is a beast. It weighs around 60 lbs and everything is built about as solidly as I can imagine, right down to a brass valve in the coolant line and a metal gear change lever

-- The variable speed and feed feature seems like it will be really, really handy. I can speak more authoritatively on it once I get some cutters...

-- The auto-stop safety feature is nice. Not a substitute for a safety chain though.

Cons:
-- This thing is a beast. It weighs about 60 lbs and is not easy to haul around. Maybe I need a smaller, lighter companion for it....

-- There is no way I will put a drill chuck and regular length bit on this thing. Just. Not. Happening. Stay tuned for a solution to that part!

-- Nitto Kohki uses proprietary cutters. No, a Weldon shank cutter will not fit. There exist adapters but just.... why? Why couldn't they use a standard solution that has been used on mag drills for ever and ever...

On the flip side of that one, I do like their cutter shank design. And the quick change feature is handy.I have a feeling though, that I will end up with an adapter to use weldon shank tooling like the whole rest of the civilized world

 

[Lucid Moments]

My exothermic lance would work. Cuts through steel AND concrete. Works underwater also.


However once the door is cut any paper currency IN the vault will most likely be on fire no matter what many movies depict. [emoji23]

The currency is almost always in a safe that is inside the vault. So you should be fine to use the lance on the vault. Then the mag drill for the safe inside the vault. Those are usually more for dual control than they are for robbery security so it shouldn't be too tough.

 

[Iron Beaver]

The currency is almost always in a safe that is inside the vault. So you should be fine to use the lance on the vault. Then the mag drill for the safe inside the vault. Those are usually more for dual control than they are for robbery security so it shouldn't be too tough.

Gotta pay for all those annular cutters somehow...

 

[The Tool Tyrant]

Glad to see you received it in one piece! Did it ship in that lightweight 1/8" steel box or did you whip that up?

 

[Iron Beaver]

I, too am glad that the Unrepentant Package Smashers let my mag drill live another day. It was shipped knocking around in a flimsy cardboard box with a couple old boxes and some packing peanuts stuffed in randomly to keep it company and maybe provide some padding if they felt like it. To the seller's credit, though, it was tightly wrapped in about five layers of heavy-duty plastic.

The steel box is made from 1/4" plate, I made it for practice when I got my Powermax 45 back in July. It was originally meant as a plasma cutter box but the scrap plate I had turned out to be about an inch too short and the lid wouldn't quite close with the plasma cutter inside. It languished a while until now, so I'm happy to have found a use for it

 

[Iron Beaver]

WTH??? it DOESN'T automatically move itself to the NEXT hole? What a POS!

It does, you just have to feel like you're part of the machine....

 

[BukitCase]

I tried, but I still hafta crank the (10 TPI) lead screw on the XY table ... Steve

 

[Iron Beaver]

A little bird told me annular cutters will be arriving tomorrow. If I can get a minute off work I am anxious to finally see how this thing drills!

 

[FTG-05]

First impressions:

Pros:
--This thing is a beast. It weighs around 60 lbs and everything is built about as solidly as I can imagine, right down to a brass valve in the coolant line and a metal gear change lever

-- The variable speed and feed feature seems like it will be really, really handy. I can speak more authoritatively on it once I get some cutters...

-- The auto-stop safety feature is nice. Not a substitute for a safety chain though.

Cons:
-- This thing is a beast. It weighs about 60 lbs and is not easy to haul around. Maybe I need a smaller, lighter companion for it....

-- There is no way I will put a drill chuck and regular length bit on this thing. Just. Not. Happening. Stay tuned for a solution to that part!

-- Nitto Kohki uses proprietary cutters. No, a Weldon shank cutter will not fit. There exist adapters but just.... why? Why couldn't they use a standard solution that has been used on mag drills for ever and ever...

On the flip side of that one, I do like their cutter shank design. And the quick change feature is handy.I have a feeling though, that I will end up with an adapter to use weldon shank tooling like the whole rest of the civilized world

Please give us newbies a little more background on the proprietary cutters.

For example, do all mag drills have a regular drill press chuck or do they use something more like a mill. Obviously, I'm not using the right terminlogoy, hence, the ignorant questions. Maybe I need a drill chuck 101 class?

 

[BukitCase]

FTG, most current mag drills come with what's called a Weldon shank - there are different diameters of that type, but most drills will have the 3/4" size - the cutters have a 3/4" round MALE end - the drill has the female, and is set up with two flats that have heavy duty allen head set screws to tighten the cutter in the chuck.

Most do NOT come with a normal 3-jaw chuck, it's usually an extra cost option.

Also, most mag drills can NOT use an add-on 3-jaw UNLESS you can rig a way to raise the drill WITHOUT losing magnetic holding. This is because typical annular cutters are 1" or 2" depth of cut, altho you can find SOME sizes in up to 6" DOC or so.

My Hougen mag drill was available in a "kit" that included a conversion to 3-jaw and a half dozen 2" DOC cutters - the downside is it's a PITA to swap between annular and twist drills, because you need to partially dis-assemble the quill in order to make the chuck high enough above the drilling surface so you have room for a normal twist drill.

My half-*** solution to this was to build a "MDVT" for mine (stands for Mag Drill Vise Table) - there's a pic of it in action in my previous post in this thread.

Hougen has some useful info on their site that should help you get up to speed -

https://www.hougen.com/downloads/08353-Safe-Mag-Drill-Operation-Guide.pdf

https://www.hougen.com/downloads/Hougen_Mag_Drill_&_Annular_Cutter_Guide.pdf

Depending on how many larger than about 7/16" holes you drill, having your own mag drill can make it difficult to "wipe the smile off yer face" every time you drill - for example, my setup lets me drill a 5/8" hole thru 1/4" mild steel in about 21 SECONDS without needing a pilot hole, and it looks like it came off a milling machine. I've drilled 1-1/2" holes in half inch steel in about 40 seconds. Again, no pilot hole, just a center punch where I want the hole - 40 seconds later, done...

There's a cheaper "entry fee" available (normally annular cutters start about $30 and end up well over $200 for REALLY large ones)

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=blair+ro...refix=blair+ro,garden,252&ref=nb_sb_ss_fb_1_8

Those kits can usually get away with being used in a HAND drill; but the actual annular cutters for mag drills do NOT like "side loading" - they will usually show you their unhappiness by ending up in pieces

They CAN sometimes be used in a SOLID drill press with a taper adapter to 3/4" Weldon shank, but a mill is a better plan (preferably a square column or a Bridgeport type)

Here's a few more pics of what I did to get a LOT more use out of my Hougen

https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums...-table-build-6.html?highlight=mag+drill+table

HTH... Steve

 

[Iron Beaver]

I will now chip in about Nitto Kohki cutters:

As BukitCase explained, most cutters come with a 3/4" round shank that has two flats 90 degrees apart. Hougen, Fein, Unibor, CS Unitec, and most of the others have standardized on this design.

Then along came Nitto Kohki trying to invent a quick-change system. If you're in a semi-production environment line (where they clearly meant a lot of their mag drills to be) the time taken to change cutters would probably add up.

The trouble is that the weldon shank does not take kindly to quick-change setups. So Nitto Kohki forged their own trail and abandoned the weldon shank entirely. Their cutters have three divots in the cutter shank evenly spaced around the exterior. The mag drill arbor has three balls inside that lock into the three divots on the cutter with the aid of a springloaded collar.

 

[BukitCase]

I-B, I agree about the Weldon shanks NOT being very "quick change" - it seems to take about the same time to swap an annular cutter as it does to PROPERLY tighten ALL THREE holes in a geared chuck - But on the plus side, I've had my Hougen for about 7 years now, and have NEVER had a cutter slip in the chuck.

I'm curious; I would think that the Nitto Kohki cutters, being a bit more rare, might be a bit on the "spendy" side; if you don't mind, it'd be interesting to compare prices on comparable sized cutters - all mine are 2" DOC HSS, run from 7/16" up to 1-1/2" and from around $25 to $90 each... Steve

 

[lis2323]

I like the fact that my "regular" annular cutters with 3/4" Weldon shanks can be easily held with a 3/4" collet in the mill or in the drill press with the use of a MT/Weldon adapter.

Can the same be done with NK?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[The Tool Tyrant]

Re: Sure!...you can use a MAG DRILL on ALUMINUM!

With a little MacGyver-ing you can...

 

[Iron Beaver]

Nitto Kohki cutters are a little more spendy. The best price and selection I found was at a place called M &R machine. The prices for 2" DOC HSS cutters range from $38 for a 7/16 cutter to $104.50 for a 1-3/8. Sets are nonexistant.

There is an adapter here that would pay for itself in a hurry. https://www.toolsid.com/euroboor/drilling-connection-adapter-mpn-ibk-nit.html?singleid=2751065432

 

[lis2323]

Nitto Kohki cutters are a little more spendy. The best price and selection I found was at a place called M &R machine. The prices for 2" DOC HSS cutters range from $38 for a 7/16 cutter to $104.50 for a 1-3/8. Sets are nonexistant.

There is an adapter here that would pay for itself in a hurry. https://www.toolsid.com/euroboor/drilling-connection-adapter-mpn-ibk-nit.html?singleid=2751065432

Just remember that adapter will add unwanted length to your cutter. Mag drills are already optimized on DOC without mods.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Iron Beaver]

The adapter would be inconvenient, but I think it would fit with a 2" DOC cutter. I will probably try one in the near future, just for the convenience of being able to run to my LWS and grab a cutter if I need one in a hurry.

 

[Iron Beaver]

I tested the drill the other day. It will drill a 1-1/16 hole in 1/4" steel in under a minute. I knew it would be a game changer for me, but oh boy is it really going to be a game changer.

I have a project coming up that will need 16 1/2" holes in 3/8" plate. Doable with a drill press, but this mag drill is gonna make it soooo much faster. I'll probably save the best part of a day on hole drilling, and it's not even that big of a job

 

[BukitCase]

Join the club; now you know why I basically "built a shrine" to mine - last link on post#31 ... Steve