Above 1200 Sq/FT Out on Quaker Road

[Finallygotit]

The guy from the hottest state in the union is talking about in-floor heat being awesome. This makes me giggle .....

Mike, having grown up in the Midwest, I can fully appreciate a nice warm floor when the temps outside are in the minus digits with the wind blowing the white stuff around. While I'm not a fan of triple digits here, the other 9 months of the year are glorious.





BTW, Bob Heine and Co. hold the title to the hottest state in the union. I melt when I visit Florida.

 

[Seagoon]

The guy from the hottest state in the union is talking about in-floor heat being awesome. This makes me giggle

The conduit tower will be right up against a wall in the utility/bathroom. We measured once and cut twice

That looks like a decent price for what's all there. 3pt and a wide front included with it. I want to see how the money shakes out from the shop project and then I'll be looking more seriously for a little toy tractor

The timeline will be smashed to pieces but it might be that long until I actually own it

I don't think anyone that has ever posted anything on this site ever has said "Hey guys guess what ?!?!?! I came in UNDER budget !!!"

The drone is easier to fly than the DJI Spark my sister has. It connects in moments and you're off and flying. It has a "Cinema" mode for flying that really limits the speed and the video looks really really smooth. I think you could film movies with this thing if you were good at flying it !!!

I like the motion light idea but every raccoon and cat would be constantly turning them on. I really like the strip light idea though. I was thinking of a single recessed can light with a red bulb in it maybe

Don't you think you might get the wrong sort of visitors with a red light on the porch?

 

[jblnut]

with the soft LED stips just iluminating that area it won't be too bothersome. on for 10 seconds.


or open up trap and transport season. or hunting. either way really.


they put a 10,000 lumen motion light on the shop at the farm and it blasts you at 2am. super jarring.

Big huge light out there would not be needed for sure. I really like the LED strips. I think I'm going to look more into that stuff. Any you've used in the past with good luck as far as longevity ??

Mike, having grown up in the Midwest, I can fully appreciate a nice warm floor when the temps outside are in the minus digits with the wind blowing the white stuff around. While I'm not a fan of triple digits here, the other 9 months of the year are glorious.





BTW, Bob Heine and Co. hold the title to the hottest state in the union. I melt when I visit Florida.

Ya know now that you say it again I think I knew you were from up here in the land of snow and skeeters. I'll take 5F hands down before I try to weather 90F. It's wicked miserable and I am a big fat sweaty mess just walking around for a few minutes. I can't drink enough water to stay properly hydrated and end up feeling like a puddle by the end of the day

Don't you think you might get the wrong sort of visitors with a red light on the porch?

Lol. I never thought it that

Might have to stick with good ol' white lights under there

 

[jblnut]

Pops and I started putting some foam behind the posts in the shop to help that extra little bit to be able to heat it with a candle ... or at least that's the idea

Tomorrow the in-floor heat guys come to start putting the heating system in. They think they'll be done in a day. I'd be all over that as we can pour the floor next week then !!!

 

[XJSuperman]

Hmm, looks like you had some rain. Its still dry down here, we could use a few showers, send some south for us? All those little spots in the building certainly add up in insulation.

 

[jeepxj]

the channels protect the strips a lot. highly suggest doing the channels.
2 schools of thought on leds: buy the cheap cheap stuff from ebay knowing you'll swap it out.

or buy from a big place like this and hope they're not the same units from ebay
https://www.1000bulbs.com/product/154574/FLX-00025.html

 

[jblnut]

Hmm, looks like you had some rain. Its still dry down here, we could use a few showers, send some south for us? All those little spots in the building certainly add up in insulation.

We've gotten around 2" in the last week with more on the way so not too much to complain about there ....

I hope that by filling all the cracks in it won't take as much to heat it all. I have a feeling it's going to take a fair bit of propane to keep it warm this winter

the channels protect the strips a lot. highly suggest doing the channels.
2 schools of thought on leds: buy the cheap cheap stuff from ebay knowing you'll swap it out.

or buy from a big place like this and hope they're not the same units from ebay
https://www.1000bulbs.com/product/154574/FLX-00025.html

I think the cheap route is the way for me and put them in the channels.

 

[jblnut]

The new belts are on !!!

Shaky camera shot of Pops blowing dust out of the chicken barn. The chickens left last night so today was barn cleaning day !!!

Dusty dusty dusty

We did some crop scouting in our test plot as well as a bunch of other fields for other customers. I learned a bit from our rep and he bought us lunch. Overall all good day

Oh lookie there !!! Seems the floor is almost ready for concrete. They need to put the manifold in and pressure test it all and it'll be ready

 

[Sifan]

Can't believe how fast your building is moving on. Corn looks good.

 

[davo727]

I hope Pops is wearing a respirator. Shop floor gonna have rebar?

 

[jblnut]

Can't believe how fast your building is moving on. Corn looks good.

It's "only" been 2-1/2 weeks since lumber was delivered

The builder guys REALLY move along and I was quite surprised that the in-floor heat guys got the whole floor done today. We'll be fixing broken **** in here soon !!!

I hope Pops is wearing a respirator. Shop floor gonna have rebar?

We both wear half face respirators with replaceable cartridges whenever in the dust in the barn. If you don't it gets pretty ugly.

I hashed that over with the concrete guy today. He wanted to put rebar down OVER the tubing, lay down plywood and run buggies full of concrete over it all. That seemed DUMB to me so I asked if he could use a drag hose to pump the mud in, skip the rebar and put a fine fiber mesh in and no rebar. I didn't want him driving on rebar over my pipes with those heavy buggies.

 

[rixtrix1]

Fiber mesh is NOT a replacement for rebar! Check with LLWILLYSFAN for pouring a flat floor, especially one you're putting heavy machinery on! Only want the best outcome for your build. Another solution is a steel fiber called Helix, which WILL replace rebar. Check it out! Drone takes great pics!

 

[racer-john]

The re-bar should have gone down first and the pex tied to it. Heavy machinery on a "NO-RE-BAR floor is asking for TROUBLE, that you don't need. Mark my words.
From a Certified Engineering Technologist.

 

[jblnut]

Fiber mesh is NOT a replacement for rebar! Check with LLWILLYSFAN for pouring a flat floor, especially one you're putting heavy machinery on! Only want the best outcome for your build. Another solution is a steel fiber called Helix, which WILL replace rebar. Check it out! Drone takes great pics!

Yeah I haven't been all that pleased so far with this concrete guy. When I questioned him about rebar over the pipes I bet he said "Whatever you want as long as you're happy dude" about 100 times. No DUDE, I hired you (actually the builder did as I found out last week he wasn't doing the floor and subbed it out) because I don't know. I told him I hired him to be able to trust his expertise over my preference but I don't think he knows what's going on .....

I send LLWillysfan a PM. I hope he sees it and am sure he'll have some words of wisdom.

The re-bar should have gone down first and the pex tied to it. Heavy machinery on a "NO-RE-BAR floor is asking for TROUBLE, that you don't need. Mark my words.
From a Certified Engineering Technologist.

Just a question here.but what sort of strength does the rebar add when it's sitting on the bottom of the slab ? Are they suppose to pull the entire rebar/pipe system up with rakes and shovels while pouring ?

The question now is what is the best way to make lemonade out of the bag of oranges already stapled to my floor ? What about using those little rebar stands to keep the bar off the pipes ?

 

[cvairwerks]

Just a question here.but what sort of strength does the rebar add when it's sitting on the bottom of the slab ? Are they suppose to pull the entire rebar/pipe system up with rakes and shovels while pouring ?

The question now is what is the best way to make lemonade out of the bag of oranges already stapled to my floor ? What about using those little rebar stands to keep the bar off the pipes ?

For your place, they better be using chairs for the rebar.... That garbage about "pulling it up" during the pour doesn't cut it engineering wise.

 

[jeepxj]

Just a question here.but what sort of strength does the rebar add when it's sitting on the bottom of the slab ? Are they suppose to pull the entire rebar/pipe system up with rakes and shovels while pouring ?

The question now is what is the best way to make lemonade out of the bag of oranges already stapled to my floor ? What about using those little rebar stands to keep the bar off the pipes ?

you want it biased to the bottom of the slab. imagine beam of concrete with rebar in it. the load comes from the top directly down. the top of the beam will be in compression, the bottom in tension. you want the rebar where its the most useful.

i was taught bottom 1/3-1/4 of slab depending on thickness. im sure there is science behind not making it too close to the bottom.

edit: removing the pipe, putting rebar down, then replacing the pipe is not your problem. its the contractors problem. get it done right. replacing a slab is a pain in the ***.

 

[racer-john]

The use of re-bar chairs is a GIVEN, but the re-bar should be under the PEX.

 

[mmavet]

! wouldnt use fiber instead of 1/2" rebar no less then 4' on center. If he is a concrete contractor he should have access to a belt. Most belts around here will reach 80 feet. Not sure how deep your shop is or how high your overhead door is but that's the easiest. Dragging that hose and pans around takes a lot of extra help to pour. hope it all works out you only get 1 chance at pouring a floor. You should never run mud bugges over pex let alone with rebar on it. Put the rebar on chairs so it is easier to pour and chairs are cheap as dirt so I'm sure the contractor will have them.

It's "only" been 2-1/2 weeks since lumber was delivered

The builder guys REALLY move along and I was quite surprised that the in-floor heat guys got the whole floor done today. We'll be fixing broken **** in here soon !!!

We both wear half face respirators with replaceable cartridges whenever in the dust in the barn. If you don't it gets pretty ugly.

I hashed that over with the concrete guy today. He wanted to put rebar down OVER the tubing, lay down plywood and run buggies full of concrete over it all. That seemed DUMB to me so I asked if he could use a drag hose to pump the mud in, skip the rebar and put a fine fiber mesh in and no rebar. I didn't want him driving on rebar over my pipes with those heavy buggies.

 

[jblnut]

For your place, they better be using chairs for the rebar.... That garbage about "pulling it up" during the pour doesn't cut it engineering wise.

I like the idea of the chairs. Makes sense and keeps the bar off the pipes. The concrete guy suggested using a line pump to get it in. Explained it like a pumper truck but without the boom because that would be too clumsy to get around nicely since the roof/walls are on/up already. Makes sense to me I guess. So that solves the buggies on plywood driving over the rebar that is on top of the heat pipes.

you want it biased to the bottom of the slab. imagine beam of concrete with rebar in it. the load comes from the top directly down. the top of the beam will be in compression, the bottom in tension. you want the rebar where its the most useful.

i was taught bottom 1/3-1/4 of slab depending on thickness. im sure there is science behind not making it too close to the bottom.

edit: removing the pipe, putting rebar down, then replacing the pipe is not your problem. its the contractors problem. get it done right. replacing a slab is a pain in the ***.

That all makes sense as far as the loading goes. If we're pouring 5" of concrete the rebar should be OFF the foam 1-1/4" - 1-1/2" so a 1" chair should put 3-1/2" of cover on top of 1/2" bar or 3-5/8" of cover on top of 3/8" bar. That should work

Making them come back and tear the floor pipes out and reinstalling them isn't going to be something I can ask them to do ..... they asked how I wanted the pipes laid and I said staple it to the foam as that's what I've seen done 100% of the time on ever project I've ever seen locally to us done by a dozen different contractors. Zip-tying to rebar was never ever even a thought in my mind.

The use of re-bar chairs is a GIVEN, but the re-bar should be under the PEX.

Might I ask why the re-bar should be under the PEX ?? Not trying to start an argument, just being curious.

 

[racer-john]

"Might I ask why the re-bar should be under the PEX ?? Not trying to start an argument, just being curious."

Sure. Have the PEX closer to the top of the concrete for faster heating, why heat the re-bar.

 

[jeepxj]

"Might I ask why the re-bar should be under the PEX ?? Not trying to start an argument, just being curious."

Sure. Have the PEX closer to the top of the concrete for faster heating, why heat the re-bar.

the whole slab is gona be a thermal mass. i'd want it dead center with rebar under it personally.

 

[jblnut]

! wouldnt use fiber instead of 1/2" rebar no less then 4' on center. If he is a concrete contractor he should have access to a belt. Most belts around here will reach 80 feet. Not sure how deep your shop is or how high your overhead door is but that's the easiest. Dragging that hose and pans around takes a lot of extra help to pour. hope it all works out you only get 1 chance at pouring a floor. You should never run mud bugges over pex let alone with rebar on it. Put the rebar on chairs so it is easier to pour and chairs are cheap as dirt so I'm sure the contractor will have them.

I did some calling around and all the concrete suppliers around here have conveyor trucks that go out 50' and I'm not going to ask him to shovel it the last 22' as I'm pretty sure of what his answer will be !!

I'm not sure his reasoning for the buggies but I sure don't like it.

"Might I ask why the re-bar should be under the PEX ?? Not trying to start an argument, just being curious."

Sure. Have the PEX closer to the top of the concrete for faster heating, why heat the re-bar.

I don't think the PEX pipes really care where they are once the whole works is up to temp. We will set it at 52f air temp and let it rock. The boiler will have a slab T-stat as well as an air T-stat. Seems like a good idea I guess. If it warms up during the day the boiler will maintain the slab temp but not pour the heat to it if the air temp is too high already.

the whole slab is gona be a thermal mass. i'd want it dead center with rebar under it personally.

I think it's going to end up with the pipes on the bottom, #4 rebar up 1 - 1-1/2" from the foam on chairs every 24" and 5-1/2" of concrete on it all. I'll see what he says on Monday

 

[racer-john]

"I don't think the PEX pipes really care where they are"

Then you will have the PEX in a tension zone in the concrete.

 

[jeepxj]

"I don't think the PEX pipes really care where they are"

Then you will have the PEX in a tension zone in the concrete.

and why does that matter? they gotta be somewhere.

 

[Big Al 15]

"I don't think the PEX pipes really care where they are"

Then you will have the PEX in a tension zone in the concrete.

Which means nothing given his machinery weight isn't that much.

That said I'd def put rebar on 12-16" centers vs 24".

 

[jblnut]

"I don't think the PEX pipes really care where they are"

Then you will have the PEX in a tension zone in the concrete.

I could see that them being dead center in the slab would be best to keep them out of the compression zone on top and the tension zone on the bottom I guess. I trusted my installer (and still do) and he gave me 1,000 different ways to do it and I asked what the most common was and why it was the most common and they said by stapling the pipes onto the foam there is less chance of them being damaged during install when the concrete guys are lifting the rebar. He also mentioned putting the rebar up a little ways so tey do not have to use a rake to lift them at all.

and why does that matter? they gotta be somewhere.

I don't think it matters for thermal considerations but I can see the argument being made about where to put them as far as not having the concrete flexing anywhere with the pipes in it. I also considered putting the pipes on the foam and covering the whole work with a few inches of sand but no one was on board with that during the initial planning stages.

Which means nothing given his machinery weight isn't that much.

That said I'd def put rebar on 12-16" centers vs 24".

The lbs/sq ft weight isn't going to be all that crazy compared to some shops and I don't think the stress on the concrete will destroy the pipes. In the old farm shop at the old dairy site we had in-floor heat in a shed that was built in the early 90's and everything was done wrong it seems and it never had an issue. I want to plan for it all to be as good as possible but as long as it works I'll be happy !!

I'll run a tighter rebar spacing in the areas the machinery will be and in the office/utility/weld fab areas I'll think about it. I have #4 bar 4' spaced in the hay shed and it's been perfectly fine so far and there have been times when we have run 650bu gravity wagons in there overnight. It has cracked a bit but it's concrete, that's what it does !!

 

[jblnut]

We went to Duluth, MN on our honeymoon 10 years ago and we decided to take a break from life and go back since it was our 10yr anniversary weekend last weekend.


We went all out and stayed at the South Pier Inn just over the lift bridge. It's a super nice place with a great view. We watched a couple sunsets on the little balcony


We drove up to Two Harbers, MN for lunch as we went there on our honeymoon as well. Judy has her own cafe there so we went there. If you're ever up here they have amazing food !!!


I asked and drones were okay to use so up it went !! Boy this is a neat place to photograph


Right around here 10yrs ago we took a similar picture (or so she remembers) so we took another. I wonder what we'll look like in another 10yrs


We stopped at a Historical Marker on the Scenic Byway and took a few pictures. I thought my camera phone took decent pictures ....


until I took a few with the drone while holding it. Good grief there is no comparison !!!


This would be a neat place to have a summer cabin. I bet there are a few storms that get the windows splashed on a few of these cabin/houses !!


She says "Can you see me ?!?!"
I yell "Yup!!" and give a thumbs up lol.


I showed her this one after I had it on my laptop and she says "What a creeper !!!"

 

[Slowbuilder]

Excellent tutorial on concrete slabs by LLWillysFan at: https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=382626

 

[ripperd]

We go to duluth at least once every summer, usually staying in the canal park area. Pre kids we'd stay in the radisson and always have dinner in the revolving restaurant. Usually either do a boat tour or a train ride as well. I really enjoy duluth.

 

[realvc]

Did you notice the little bitty girl sitting in that flower bush when you took that last picture?

Vince

 

[jblnut]

Excellent tutorial on concrete slabs by LLWillysFan at: https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=382626

I read through that a long time ago and forgot all about it until you posted the link up again. I read it again and I think we have a decent plan to get the mud down nicely now. LLWillysfan responded with a very well written PM a few days ago with a TON of info in it. That guy is a major resource to all that get to interact with him !!!

We go to Duluth at least once every summer, usually staying in the canal park area. Pre kids we'd stay in the Radisson and always have dinner in the revolving restaurant. Usually either do a boat tour or a train ride as well. I really enjoy Duluth.

We had a good time up there this weekend !!! We missed out on the dinner cruise as it was already booked up a few weeks back when we first called but were able to do a bunch of other things. Mostly just not having the three little people around was a nice break enough. We got there and said "Now what do we do ?" "Who cares ?!?! Let's watch TV as loud as we want and figure it out tomorrow !!"

Did you notice the little bitty girl sitting in that flower bush when you took that last picture?

Vince

Lol yeah that's Mama Bear quite a ways away. She didn't know I was taking pictures through that weedy plant but I think they turned out kind of neat.

 

[madison069]

Regarding the concrete, there's a lot of ways to do the layout and what goes where. They all have their pro's and con's, it just boils down to what you can live with and what works for your setup.

Problem with pex being lower is heat transfer will take a little longer to get to the top. Now the concrete is going to absorb most of the heat before it reaches the surface of the slab where it can transfer to the air. It's possible that the heating cost can go up, but it all relies on how well insulated is the outside of the concrete slab. Any weakness and the heat is just going to be transferred to the colder area of the slab first before it reach the surface.

Duluth looks like a nice place! That drone does take some nice pictures!

As for the "Creeper" pic, I take pictures like that of my wife and she calls me a creeper too. I call it Artistic style of photography!

 

[Ajustable]

Your shop is gonna be sweet! It'll be fun to watch you build it up. I stumbled across this video of barn dominium, thought it might interest you.

the tube channel Is called Marshall Remodel

 

[jblnut]

Regarding the concrete, there's a lot of ways to do the layout and what goes where. They all have their pro's and con's, it just boils down to what you can live with and what works for your setup.

Problem with pex being lower is heat transfer will take a little longer to get to the top. Now the concrete is going to absorb most of the heat before it reaches the surface of the slab where it can transfer to the air. It's possible that the heating cost can go up, but it all relies on how well insulated is the outside of the concrete slab. Any weakness and the heat is just going to be transferred to the colder area of the slab first before it reach the surface.

Duluth looks like a nice place! That drone does take some nice pictures!

As for the "Creeper" pic, I take pictures like that of my wife and she calls me a creeper too. I call it Artistic style of photography!

I think the heat will find a way up, that's why I put 2' of foam going down and 2" of foam under it. We're only talking about the difference of a few inches from the bottom to the middle of the slab. (Spoiler alert)-> It's going to have to work now, the mud was laid down on it today !!!

Duluth always offers something fun to do even if you've been there a bunch of times

I quite like this little flying camera box for taking pictures with !!! Mama Bear doesn't see the enjoyment from taking pictures from way high up but she has said a bunch of times that they look really nice so there's that I guess

Your shop is gonna be sweet! It'll be fun to watch you build it up. I stumbled across this video of barn dominium, thought it might interest you.

the tube channel Is called Marshall Remodel

Thank you for following along !!! I am VERY excited for the time to come to move into the new shop !!!

I've watched a few of their videos and they're all quite interesting. Quite an ambitious bunch !!!

 

[jblnut]

The PEX manifold is up and pressurized. The short blue lines are for the slab thermostats and the longer lines are water lines to the East side of the shop. I don't know how good or bad of an idea it was to put them on top the foam but I am excited to have hot-ish water coming out of them for a little bit at least in the winter to melt the crud off our boots on the way in when I'm using the boot wash by the man door.


The pumper truck has arrived !!


Although not exactly how I'd have setup/located the pumper truck it ended up working out quite well.


They had three sections of hose on the end of it they kept moving around and the pumper operator kept it as high off the ground as possible.


These guys moved right along and had the entire floor poured in 2.5hrs. I thought it was pretty good !!


During the pour it was in the lower 60's F and it never got above 80F today so it didn't get too hard too fast. He cut it as soon as it was hard enough it wasn't chipping out along the cuts. I didn't get home after this picture was taken until it was dark but it looked pretty nice before I left. I asked him to make it nice to sweep but not a mirror finish like so many like to have on shop floors because glaring lights drive me nuts and I do not need to slip on a shiny floor if I spill something. It turned out very nice as far as that goes !!

 

[drivesitfar]

JBL: sorry i've been MIA from your thread and from GJ, but happy to see you were able to not only get the building framed in the best month of the year to do so, but also poured concrete floor on a perfect temp day.

looks amazing and best of luck with everything.

cheers

 

[davo727]

Oh Yeah !

 

[cvairwerks]

Had to laugh about the pour temps. Went by a site last weekend and they already had pumped at least a dozen trucks and it was just 3 am. Went by going the other direction at 5 am and there were probably a dozen trucks lined up to hit the pump, and I passed several more on the road. Back by there that afternoon and the site was a ghost town. I think it hit 100 a bit later in the day.

 

[ripperd]

Had to laugh about the pour temps. Went by a site last weekend and they already had pumped at least a dozen trucks and it was just 3 am. Went by going the other direction at 5 am and there were probably a dozen trucks lined up to hit the pump, and I passed several more on the road. Back by there that afternoon and the site was a ghost town. I think it hit 100 a bit later in the day.

I used to work for a construction company about 10 years ago doing IT work. They were building a small power plant in Montana and I was out there checking up on the jobsite temporary construction trailers for a few days. The PM on the job said you are here at a good time, you want to see something crazy come in early the next day. They were scheduled to pour the foundation/floor and turbine footings the next day. This was by far the most time critical and logistically complicated (and costly if goes sideways) part of the project. I think completion+acceptance of it was also tied to a large milestone payment. IIRC most of the footing/floor was like 4' of concrete and then there were taller areas where the turbines were to go. I think he said there was going to be about 300 truckloads of concrete in all. And they had contracted pretty much every truck within 100 miles. The pour started at something like 3am. It was crazy how focused everyone was. You could tell it was a huge deal even to the folks who did construction and concrete every day. I think there was about 3-4 pumpers and then a steady line of concrete trucks like ants coming over the highway and backing up to feed the pumpers.

 

[cvairwerks]

Growing up in Houston, we saw some big pours. The biggest I remember required cooperation between every batch plant in town at the time. They were running trucks 24/7 for 3 days to make the pour. I think there were 7 plants, and they had 6 online at any one time. There were times they had over a hundred trucks on the site and they would dump into a dump truck and wash out and go back for another load.