Overseas Jack Rebuild Help Tutorial.

[Merrill]

So on the jack I have in the area where the spider gear is located, from left to right looking from the jack handle end, there is the plunger, then the "working valve" threaded insert having a plain slot for a screwdriver to remove it, under which are the two ball bearings and the spring (the smaller ball is at the bottom of the shaft, then above it is the spring and on top is the larger ball- the spring is soft , easy to compress, and the large ball sits just inside the first coil of the spring like a cradle; the spring is tapered so that the lower end of the spring is about the same diameter of the small ball which it is pressing on). Then in the middle is the spider valve -which controls a shaft which raises and lowers according to the screwing in or out of the spider gear shaft, and, when the shaft is screwed down, contacts a ball bearing which sits in a cup and seals the machined passage under the ball. Next in line, more to the right is the overload valve with its protective plastic cap.
So, following instructions I released the spider gear shaft so that the lift arm was fully relaxed in the down position; then I pumped the plunger a number of times, while keeping the reservoir full, then closing the shaft/valve and seeing if the jack would pump up, and it would only respond in the teeter totter manner Hiball described. I tried that bleeding process a number of times to no avail. I was lifting and depressing the plunger by hand instead of using the jack handle apparatus. When I lifted up on the plunger it resisted and felt like a vacuum was pulling/holding the plunger from lifting. This with the spider valve open. Using more force the plunger would lift. Then, after closing the spider valve, the plunger upon being depressed would travel to the bottom, and about 1" of the stroke would lift the jack arm but, upon lifting the plunger there is the teeter totter and the arm falls down.
I assume that the plunger ***** fluid from the reservoir on the up stroke through a machined passage connecting the reservoir to the plunger shaft. I don't understand why the plunger would be restricted by some vacuum, with the fluid not freely flowing into the plunger cavity on the upstroke. Perhaps the passage is partially blocked? I also don't see what mechanism then would operate to seal the plunger cavity at the beginning of the down stroke to direct the fluid to the ram. Should be some ball?? I then assume that the fluid should be pressurized to flow to one of the working valve balls, unseat the ball, pass thru to the ram and have the ball reseal on the next plunger upstroke. The teeter totter action would mean that the ball unseated under the plunger pressure is not sealing upon the commencement of the plunger up stroke. I wonder if there are any schematics showing the fluid passages and the operation of the plunger, balls and ram??
So I have to open up the working valve and see if there is any debris in the ball seats or if the ball/balls may be distorted, worn or damaged.
I took some photos of the jack stuff, but I don't see any way to upload. As I remember being on forums years and years ago you have to host the images somewhere to get a url for the forum software to find and display. There is no means of direct upload, correct?

 

[Hiball]

The forum does have the ability to upload and host pictures, it’s the 3rd icon to the right of where you can change the font, next to the smiley face.

If your jack utilizes a spring in between the small ball and bigger ball, it shouldn’t protrude above the upper seat. Are you certain that the spring is in the correct position? In the majority of the import jacks when springs are utilized, they normally are on top of the upper ball. If the spring is protruding above the seat, it’s possible that is the culprit and would also cause it to teeter totter if the ball isn’t seating. Some pictures would go along way..

 

[ajchien]

I wonder if there are any schematics showing the fluid passages and the operation of the plunger, balls and ram???

Check out the bottom half of section III, on page 2, under the “operating principles” portion of this Norco jack users manual. It’s a good description of how the valves in these import jacks generally work, with some minor variations:

https://www.hcrcnow.com/uploads/drawings/norcoym1501.5tonfloorjack.pdf

 

[Merrill]

I will check the position of the spring. i think what you are saying is that the spring may be preventing the large ball from seating properly; kinda caught between the ball and the seat. I didn't pay any attention to that, just dropped it in. My spring is tapered with the large ball uppermost, then the tapered spring, then the small ball. That was the way i found it when I opened the cover. That spring doesn't have much tension at all. You can squish it flat no problem at all. So if the spring were to be on the top of the ball would there be no spring pressure on the lower ball? If I remember correctly there is a kind of machined *** on the screw in cover. So are you saying that the spring locates on the screw in *** and then screws down pushing the spring tapered end onto the upper ball? Anyway, would love to provide photos. I could email same. Can they be attached to private messages here?
Dear ajchien, thanks for the leads. I will check that out directly.

 

[Merrill]

Hiball, I can upload photos to MyDrive and send you a link. PM me.

Well, that users manual is food for reading. Work with me on this: The "suction ball E" appears to be the small lower ball in the working valve. If fluid is sucked into the plunger thru there, what causes the ball to seat-Gravity, since no spring appears in the exploded diagram above "E". The arm being lowered doesn't appear to me to have any hydraulic pressure anywhere. Delivery valve ball "F" seems to be the large ball on top in my jack; Manual says hydraulic pressure keeps ""F" closed. So "F" has to seat tightly as soon as the arm begins to lift, i.e. when there is hydraulic pressure, otherwise the arm will lower when the plunger is released. So I think I see the principles. My jack seems to be messed up both with resistance to **** fluid from the reservoir, indicating that the suction ball is not unseating easily (or is improperly compressed by the spring), and the failure to seat the large ball properly which would then prevent the arm from lowering, (the release valve being closed of course).
Well anyway I had some success today working on a Ford Ranger. Put in a new power steering pump, the old one was run dry. Screwed on the high pressure line- it leaked. The bottom of the female fitting was just flat with a hole and the male fitting end of the line did not press down on it or anything. No way to seal the line because the fluid just went out down beside the fitting along the line. Went to the Big Ford Dealer and they had no clue. Tried orings, copper washers, brass washers etc, etc, no luck. So finally I went to Oreillys and had them show me a new high pressure line. Right away I noticed the male screw in fitting was pretty snug on the metal line. Mine was loosey goosey. Bought the line, screwed it in, case closed. There is a seal inside the end fitting and the metal line, not visible from outside. If it is worn out she gonna leak. Time for a new line! Don't ask the Big Ford Dealer

 

[ajchien]

Well, that users manual is food for reading. Work with me on this: The "suction ball E" appears to be the small lower ball in the working valve

Yes - suction ball E on the diagram is the small lower ball in the working valve. I think you have the general idea. The oil flow goes from reservoir -> lower small ball E valve -> pump (plunger) -> upper large ball F valve -> main ram cylinder (lift arm).

So, during pump (plunger) upstroke/suction the lower small ball E will lift upwards to allow oil from the reservoir to the pump, while large ball F will be seated and not allow oil to back flow from the main ram cylinder.

And, during pump (plunger) downstroke/pressure the lower small ball E will seat, and not allow oil to go back to the reservoir, while large ball F will lift and allow oil to go to the main ram cylinder to raise the lift arm.

After the pump (plunger) is done moving the oil, the vehicle weight on the jack saddle and lift arm will start to push the oil back towards the pump/plunger thus seating large ball F.

Opening the release valve to lower the lift arm uses a separate channel to release the oil from the main ram cylinder back to the reservoir.

Hopefully that “general principle” makes sense. There are certainly variations where springs or weights get put into the working valve to help balls move into place faster, I think you can self deduce what a spring in a certain location will do ... and since I’m completely unfamiliar with your jack, I’m hoping to see pics eventually and learn from Hiball’s experience here too.

 

[Merrill]

I disassembled the working valve again to inspect more carefully and take pictures. I can't see very well into the cavity as it is somewhat deep (about 2 1/2") and I would need a better inspection device. In any case I see that my small ball valve was a little corroded, over about 1/3 of the ball surface. It would be better to be able to see the ball seat and how it looks.
Since is a spring under the large ball and above the small ball I need to carefully study if that spring could get in the way somehow. I don't think so since there is no evidence of wear or rubbing on the spring. So I wonder if the jack could be bled with the balls in their place without the spring. When I raise the plunger with the working valve open and full of oil the oil is readily sucked down inside the working valve. That seems good. So I will get a new small ball.
So AJ, I fully agree with your explanation of the working principles. I sent Hiball a number of photos from uploads to MyDrive. If you give me an email I can send them to you also.

 

[Hiball]

I disassembled the working valve again to inspect more carefully and take pictures. I can't see very well into the cavity as it is somewhat deep (about 2 1/2") and I would need a better inspection device. In any case I see that my small ball valve was a little corroded, over about 1/3 of the ball surface. It would be better to be able to see the ball seat and how it looks.
Since is a spring under the large ball and above the small ball I need to carefully study if that spring could get in the way somehow. I don't think so since there is no evidence of wear or rubbing on the spring. So I wonder if the jack could be bled with the balls in their place without the spring. When I raise the plunger with the working valve open and full of oil the oil is readily sucked down inside the working valve. That seems good. So I will get a new small ball.
So AJ, I fully agree with your explanation of the working principles. I sent Hiball a number of photos from uploads to MyDrive. If you give me an email I can send them to you also.

I responded to your email earlier, I’m fairly certain that spring needs to go on top of the bigger ball. If the ball is corroded, I would definitely replace it. In regards to whether he jack will operate without the spring, Yes it will. It only makes it more efficient till cylinder pressure builds up.

 

[ajchien]

@Merill - on the small Norco jack diagram showing balls E and F I posted earlier ... notice the size of the channels that the balls reside in. The channels decrease in diameter as you go deeper [3 different diameters] so that the larger ball F is in a larger channel than the smaller ball E (and the smallest diameter channel leads to the reservoir). This allows a separate seat for each ball.

The size of that spring diameter (I presume Hiball posted your working valve pic) looks too large to fit inside the channel dimensions where the small ball E lives; it looks like it will extend into the location where the large ball F wants to seat, likely preventing the large ball F from seating. If the large ball can’t seat, then the passageways between the main cylinder/main ram and pump/plunger are always open and connected - one reason for the “teeter totter” phenomenon you first described. If that spring is moved to the location above the large ball, between the large ball and the screw, the spring will assist the large ball F to seat faster after the pump/plunger has finished its stroke, and is likely its intended function. To me, it looks like the wider coils of the spring could fit into the “***” of the screw.

 

[Merrill]

Well, good to hear from all. So yes the spring larger diameter fits comfortably over the screw ***. I am going to sound out the various seat depths just to see where the spring and balls normally lodge. Sadly I cannot find a local source for the 6mm smaller ball, so I guess I have to order it online. I also do not have a handle at present. I ordered a saddle to fit this jack from a 5 tonner. When the handle is inserted in its receptacle the bottom is supposed to engage with the rectangular protrusion on the shaft of the spider gear. That part is rusty so I have to clean it and lube it to see if I can get it to turn properly. May have to make a bushing insert as it is sloppy and it binds up. Many handles use a hexagonal shaped recess in the handle to mate with a hex protrusion on the shaft. I was thinking to get one of those and swap the spider shaft for a hex, but it would have to be machined, or I could drill out the lower aperture, but then the spider gear needs a square shoulder on the shaft to be locked on with a threaded shaft area. Oh well. The handle is nominally 1 1/4" diameter, and needs a groove ground out for the locking screw. Anybody with leads on a handle?

 

[Merrill]

Hi all, so Hiball I took a fine machinist ruler to the working valve area to measure the seat depths. The small ball seats about 2 1/2" below the screw shoulder, top of the jack valve area. Then the larger ball seats about 2" below shoulder but the top of the ball would be about 3/16" higher, so the top of the ball would be about 1 13/16" from top shoulder. With the spring on the *** the bottom of the spring appears to be about 2 1/8" below the shoulder, so the contact of the spring with the ball would see a compression of about 5/16". Placing the spring below the large ball won't work. So I am looking for a small 6mm ball to replace what I have. Not so easy to find!

 

[Hiball]

Hi all, so Hiball I took a fine machinist ruler to the working valve area to measure the seat depths. The small ball seats about 2 1/2" below the screw shoulder, top of the jack valve area. Then the larger ball seats about 2" below shoulder but the top of the ball would be about 3/16" higher, so the top of the ball would be about 1 13/16" from top shoulder. With the spring on the *** the bottom of the spring appears to be about 2 1/8" below the shoulder, so the contact of the spring with the ball would see a compression of about 5/16". Placing the spring below the large ball won't work. So I am looking for a small 6mm ball to replace what I have. Not so easy to find!

My head hurts after reading that, Probably too much Turkey and Sweet potatoes.. Yes, The spring definitely needs to be between the valve plug and Upper ball as I stated in the email. I’d be willing to bet a 1/4” ball with a quick seat reform with a punch/hammer would work.

 

[Merrill]

Greetings to all on GJ, just wanted to post the success story rebuilding the old Sears jack. Hiball have me the right info. I repositioned the spring above the larger ball and Voila, working fine! I wasnt able to really give a confirmation until I got a proper handle. A guy sold me a 1 1/4" handle with a square hole from a Michelin G735 3 1/2 ton jack that he couldn't get to work. Actually he just gave me the jack with the handle; he was really frustrated. So now I have the Michelin and the Craftsman. The Michelin is a quick lift model not functioning. I read the thread on that jack and got concerned that a tube etc. Could be ruptured by a wrong setting of valves. It appears that the quick lift valve has a rather stiff spring whereas the regular lift valve seems to just have a larger and smaller ball, 7mm and 6mm. If you are looking at the jack from the handle end for sure the overload valve is first on left, then the regular lift in the middle and the quick lift on the right with the stiff spring under the plug which has a *** to locate the spring, then a ball seat with a *** facing up with a dimple to center the seat over the ball(6mm), and the small ball (4mm) at the bottom. So, how do you set up the jack and quick lift as well as diagnose if there is a rupture?
So I send my deep gratitude to Hiball for working with me on the Craftsman. It stays up well although a bit slow to pump up. Maybe we can get the Michelin to work. The guy said he put a rebuild kit in it. It's fun to get these things working!

 

[ALTEREGO]

Greetings to all on GJ, just wanted to post the success story rebuilding the old Sears jack. Hiball have me the right info. I repositioned the spring above the larger ball and Voila, working fine! I wasnt able to really give a confirmation until I got a proper handle. A guy sold me a 1 1/4" handle with a square hole from a Michelin G735 3 1/2 ton jack that he couldn't get to work. Actually he just gave me the jack with the handle; he was really frustrated. So now I have the Michelin and the Craftsman. The Michelin is a quick lift model not functioning. I read the thread on that jack and got concerned that a tube etc. Could be ruptured by a wrong setting of valves. It appears that the quick lift valve has a rather stiff spring whereas the regular lift valve seems to just have a larger and smaller ball, 7mm and 6mm. If you are looking at the jack from the handle end for sure the overload valve is first on left, then the regular lift in the middle and the quick lift on the right with the stiff spring under the plug which has a *** to locate the spring, then a ball seat with a *** facing up with a dimple to center the seat over the ball(6mm), and the small ball (4mm) at the bottom. So, how do you set up the jack and quick lift as well as diagnose if there is a rupture?
So I send my deep gratitude to Hiball for working with me on the Craftsman. It stays up well although a bit slow to pump up. Maybe we can get the Michelin to work. The guy said he put a rebuild kit in it. It's fun to get these things working!

Congrats Merril! Would love to see some before/after pictures of your jack!

Another feather in Hiball’s hat!

I still have two jacks to finish fixing and a few more waiting in line for a rebuild. My plan was to get it done during my Christmas break but there are always so many things to do and when is all done I’m so tired and so full from so much delicious food that I get hardly anything done. I will go to the garage now to see if at least I can get some ducks in a row for tomorrow before my son asks me for another “laser gun battle” again.

Thank you for sharing your success, I’m sure there are many of us that, like you, are very grateful for all the help we get from the fellow garage members, specially Hiball!

Merry Christmas to all!

 

[flat350]

I have an old (I think) Sears/Craftsman,the only numbers I find on it are G9004001572 and 21412300.Not finding much in the way of parts for those numbers,does it fall in the overseas category?

 

[ajchien]

I have an old (I think) Sears/Craftsman,the only numbers I find on it are G9004001572 and 21412300.Not finding much in the way of parts for those numbers,does it fall in the overseas category?

Sears 214.12300 would be the model/parts number. 214 refers to the source manufacturer, in this case, Shinn Fu America. Your jack does look to be the “yasui” style featured in this thread, I suspect your jack has the U cup on the main ram.

 

[flat350]

Sears 214.12300 would be the model/parts number. 214 refers to the source manufacturer, in this case, Shinn Fu America. Your jack does look to be the “yasui” style featured in this thread, I suspect your jack has the U cup on the main ram.

Thanks.no visible leaks just pumps up poorly.

 

[penright]

Let me add to the long line of thanks @Hiball.

I have an Allied model HDJ2 that started sinking on me about 15 years ago and has been collecting dust. This thread has motivated me to open her up and see what can I see. I took a lot of pictures and will post the ones relevant to my questions, but will post the rest just for completeness.

After some searching, I keep seeing the name Lazzar's. I am guessing they manufacture and sell under different brands.

Do you think this kit will fit my jack?
https://www.amazon.com/Floor-Jack-328-12000-328-12001-328-12002/dp/B00V5APZMW/ref=sr_1_4?dchild=1&m=A1IW97VJX0OS9D&qid=1609677443&s=merchant-items&sr=1-4

I found this but does not have very many parts.
https://www.hcrcnow.com/shop/seal-kits/product/4678

I am going to call the number in your signature Monday. I could not find a website.

I found this part explosion, so I hope I use the right names. At least I can point to a number.

Now to some questions.
The tube screen/filter #10, from the diagram it is not clear, but I guess it fits into the hole to the side of the main bore.

Also, the black rubber looking that is on the filter in the bottom of the main bore, is that normal?

I thought there were 3 different size balls, and they fell into my hand before knowing which way they went. Looking at the drawing, Two of them have the same part number, so I guess they are the same size. So the smaller one #15 goes in first.


This needle looks a little worn, not sure if I could find the part.

I can only explain the next one that it must have gotten tangled up removing the bolt. I was pretty slow and was watching, and it did not seem so.

I might have broken the seal during disassembly, but I thinking it is my issue.

I am sure I will have more questions before this is over. As in Oak island, sometimes answers lead to more questions.

 

[Hiball]

@penright

I’d stay away from the Universal kit, that looks to be a complete waste of money for your jack.

The screen is a filter for the intake, it’s position would be 6 o’clock between the reservoir/cylinder.

I can’t make out the “black rubber thing” in the bore, but based off the Seal particle that is tangled up in the spring, I suspect complete disassembly and flush of all valve veins would be a good start.

The release valve looks OK.

The Ucup probably went to pieces prior to you tearing it down, looks age related.

 

[penright]

I’d stay away from the Universal kit, that looks to be a complete waste of money for your jack.

Sounds good, and to be honest, not sure if that jack is worth $50 to put it back into service.

The screen is a filter for the intake, it’s position would be 6 o’clock between the reservoir/cylinder.

What holds it on? Just a friction fit? I need to get more light into it, but looking at the pictures that I have, do I see a post that it goes over?

I can’t make out the “black rubber thing” in the bore, but based off the Seal particle that is tangled up in the spring, I suspect complete disassembly and flush of all valve veins would be a good start.

Including everything below the snap ring #08?
Looking at the part list I see there are 4 1/4" balls. I found the two that were below screws #19 and #25, the two side ports. I did not see one below the needle valve. There were some metal shavings in the oil. I will search back through it tonight, but have you ever heard of one of the balls disintegrating into metal shavings?

The release valve looks OK.

Good news.

The Ucup probably went to pieces prior to you tearing it down, looks age related.

Would that be the source of the slow lowering or where the tangled seal came from?


I could not tell from the parts diagram. There are 4 bores that are on top with the cylinder point toward you. The second one is where the valve for raising and lowering is. The 4th one is a pump piston.
Just curious, what is the function/name of those bores?

BTW, I spoke to HPS this morning, a nice guy, and had a kit that he could build that fit the jack.

 

[Hiball]

Sounds good, and to be honest, not sure if that jack is worth $50 to put it back into service.


What holds it on? Just a friction fit? I need to get more light into it, but looking at the pictures that I have, do I see a post that it goes over?


Some are friction, other do use a small captive pin




Including everything below the snap ring #08?
Looking at the part list I see there are 4 1/4" balls. I found the two that were below screws #19 and #25, the two side ports. I did not see one below the needle valve. There were some metal shavings in the oil. I will search back through it tonight, but have you ever heard of one of the balls disintegrating into metal shavings?

Definitely not a ball below the needle valve, I would do some investigation for the source of the metal shavings, It’s not a disintegrated ball. Check the cylinder bore and pump bore for any signs of metal to metal wear, I wouldn’t invest in a seal kit till you inspected everything. There will also be a ball in the Over extension portion at the end of the Ram




Would that be the source of the slow lowering or where the tangled seal came from?

Definitely more of a lift issue, the tangled piece looks Oring’ish to me


I could not tell from the parts diagram. There are 4 bores that are on top with the cylinder point toward you. The second one is where the valve for raising and lowering is. The 4th one is a pump piston.
Just curious, what is the function/name of those bores?

You have the pump piston bore, working valve for transferring oil, Overload Valve and then the release assembly bore (not in that order) More detailed information on those can be found at the beginning of this thread.




BTW, I spoke to HPS this morning, a nice guy, and had a kit that he could build that fit the jack.

Hope this helps

 

[penright]

Went back and reread your first few posts. I actually printed them out and had them when I was disassembling the jack. Besides your post, the other thing I could have done to help me was to do some research on how jacks work. If I had understood the bypass circuit when I read the "count the turns" I would have connected the dots.
Looks like I get to join the "back off 2 turns" club.

I equate learning to climb a series of mountains. You can not see the next one till you climb the top of the current one or in my case the first one.


That parts diagram I got from a document that said it was a model HDJ2, does not match my parts. It shows 4 1/4" and 1 3/8" balls. My check valve ball is 5/16". The bypass is 1/4" and 3/8". Also, I have a needle valve so there are only 4 balls counting the 1/4" one in the ram.

Also, I did not see a spring between the large and small balls for the check valve. The screw cap had a spring, so as a double-check, the large one just sets on top of the small one, and that's it, correct?
Because of the seal being tangled/messed up, I could not measure it, do you know what size that would be? Looking at the "cap screw" I would guess about 1/2" nominal?

Now that I have a better understanding, the jack started "failing" when I was working on an F250 Power Stroke. I wonder if the bypass had started backing off a little and the weight of the diesel truck tipped it (bypass) over the edge. I did not wash the ********, if it was summer I would have power washed it first. Maybe the shining metal could have been outside dirt. I don't see any wear inside that it could have come from. The bypass spring does have some roughness on the top. I am assuming, since the ram cylinder does not go all the way to the cap, that the ram U-cup can leak, run back into the reservoir, and not show on the outside, correct?


Bypass spring...

 

[penright]

Ran into my first problem going back together. The pin in the ram, if I remember correctly it was capture by a ball, is this correct?


Here is my before ...

But when I started to pull the u-cup off, I don't see it in this picture.

So is it captured? If not what keeps it from scoring the cylinder?
I just noticed that the screw was steaked.

This is the order I thought it goes back

 

[Hiball]

It appears from the picture, you are missing a small pin. The installation would go like this, Insert cross pin thru the cylinder. Working from the Ucup end, Insert the small pin (missing from picture), Ball/upper ball rest/spring and thread plug back in. Check the operation and re-stake.

The small missing pin is what unseats the ball and relieves cylinder pressure when the cross pin reaches full stroke and meets the inner portion of the tank nut. If the piece is gone, A replacement can be made easy enough. The only critical part is the measurement, if it’s to long it won’t allow the ball to seat and I pressure will fail to build, too short and it won’t unseat when it reaches Max lift and can “possibly” cause internal damage if someone attempts to pump the jack after it’s at full stop internally.

 

[penright]

Thanks, found it. I was real careful about pulling things out and I had a pan that I worked over trying to be careful. After pulling the ball out, that released the pin. It must have dump out and I did not catch it. Once I knew what I was looking for I found it.

Got it all back together and it will not raise. I will go back through the thread when I get some time, wife waiting for me to leave. But I thought I would post this picture and see if I did the check valve correct?

 

[Hiball]

Thanks, found it. I was real careful about pulling things out and I had a pan that I worked over trying to be careful. After pulling the ball out, that released the pin. It must have dump out and I did not catch it. Once I knew what I was looking for I found it.

Got it all back together and it will not raise. I will go back through the thread when I get some time, wife waiting for me to leave. But I thought I would post this picture and see if I did the check valve correct?

The spring between the little ball and the bigger ball doesn’t look right, Remove it for sure. Was that part of your parts pile? Did you put the spring back in the over extension valve in the end of the Ram?

 

[penright]

The spring between the little ball and the bigger ball doesn’t look right, Remove it for sure. Was that part of your parts pile? Did you put the spring back in the over extension valve in the end of the Ram?

I took it back apart and laid them out the way I think it was. Do these look right? Also, the dust seal for the pump was not as tight as the old one, but the seal was and there was no oil seeping out from it.
The only other concern I had is the gap between the white washer and the metal bushing. There was a black washer, that came from HPS, it was thinner than the white one I had, now I wonder if I need to put it between the u-cup and white washer.

 

[Hiball]

I took it back apart and laid them out the way I think it was. Do these look right? Also, the dust seal for the pump was not as tight as the old one, but the seal was and there was no oil seeping out from it.
The only other concern I had is the gap between the white washer and the metal bushing. There was a black washer, that came from HPS, it was thinner than the white one I had, now I wonder if I need to put it between the u-cup and white washer.

That spring between the lower ball and upper ball looks out of place, probably too long to even let the upper ball to seat and way too stiff. Are you sure that spring is from this jack? I’d pull it... Merrill in a earlier post had a extra spring also.

I can’t tell what the black ring is in the bag, but I’m guessing it’s a seal that sits between the cylinder and the block, Most people don’t change it. Maybe a better picture? Are all the components in place on the ram? I can’t make out of the washer is in between the Ucup/Snap ring on the new picture compared to your older one. Regardless, a little play won’t hurt, the Ucup will address both the Id and OD sealing and when under pressure it will rest in the normal position.

 

[penright]

Will try it without the middle spring. So it will go back like this?
If you do the ram last, can you put some oil in the reservoir to save filling time?
I know pictures help a lot, but not without context a 1.5" can look like 10". I wonder if the black is a ram seal? It is soft rubber and just slightly cup. It looks too small for my gap unless there is a washer. The ram seal looks good so I was going try and not mess with it. The bypass is the back off two turns, is there an adjustment to the overextension valve?

 

[Hiball]

I think it’s a Oring backup for tank nut seal, Does the ID match the Main ram OD? If it’s a Oring backup, it will have a flat side and then a concave side that mates up to a Oring. If so and if needed it would go inside the tank nut, flat side up “above” the Oring. It’s possible the old one is still in there or maybe your jack doesn’t utilize it.

 

[penright]

Is there an adjustment on the screw that holds the overextension spring, ball, and pin?

 

[Hiball]

Is there an adjustment on the screw that holds the overextension spring, ball, and pin?

No. Just all components and flush at the end.

 

[penright]

Did something right. It will now lift air.

Saturday, I can test it on the old project car. The only convent heavy object I have in the shop is my welding cart and workbench. The welding cart holds both the stick mig, and tank. Actually more storage than "cart" . So last night I jack it up to 9" to the bottom of the frame. Tonight, looks like it settled about 1/2" to 3/4". I brought it back up to 9" tonight and will check it again. The jack and floor was dry, no leaks.

 

[penright]

Finally got around to test the jack on the project car.
Frist issue, as soon as it had just a little weight, oil started pouring out of the check valve screw. It stops after some major tightening, I don't remember it being that tight coming off.
Then it would just lift take the weight off the spring but would not lift the car. I started making 1/2 turns till I could raise the wheel. I made 1 and 1/2 turns. I only backed it off 2 turns, does that sound right.

All in all, it did raise the wheels, so it was strong enough to raise the driver side of a GP. I let sit there all day and it held. So I feel pretty good about it.
Did not see any leaks.

 

[Hiball]

Finally got around to test the jack on the project car.
Frist issue, as soon as it had just a little weight, oil started pouring out of the check valve screw. It stops after some major tightening, I don't remember it being that tight coming off.
Then it would just lift take the weight off the spring but would not lift the car. I started making 1/2 turns till I could raise the wheel. I made 1 and 1/2 turns. I only backed it off 2 turns, does that sound right.

All in all, it did raise the wheels, so it was strong enough to raise the driver side of a GP. I let sit there all day and it held. So I feel pretty good about it.
Did not see any leaks.

Yes, the valve plug needs to be tight, cylinder pressure backfeeds between it and Upper ball.

1 1/2 turns out sounds good to me, without a test station or knowing the original setting, it’s a guess. The most important thing is to have a general ide of what your lifting and secure the load with jack stands prior to venturing under the vehicle to perform any work.

 

[penright]

1 1/2 turns out sounds good to me, without a test station or knowing the original setting, it’s a guess.

When I assembled the jack, I backed off 2 turns. The 1 1/2 is what I put back in. So if I counted correctly when I was backing off, I should be 1/2 off. I do know that without that last 1/2 turn, it was not lifting the wheels. I will only use it to help rotate tires on cars, so I not too worried that I will over-stress it.

secure the load with jack stands prior to venturing under the vehicle to perform any work.

I hear you and echo, without jackstands, I don't care if it is a brand new jack, never put anything under a jacked-up vehicle that you want to use again someday.

Again, thanks.

 

[Myakimo]

hi all, i signed up on this site for repair help for a torin T83505W 6000 lb floor jack. i bought from a kid who needed money but it looks like he tore it apart and now it wont lift at all. i was wondering if anyone knows the placement of the ball bearings, or if there is even any supposed to be in the release valve at all. it looks like the bottom of release valve is seated so i assume that one goes there? but what size? when you turn release valve, the handle will turn indefinately in each direction. im really frustrated with this jack

 

[ALTEREGO]

It’s a stiff bristle nylon type brush, I don’t see any issue with using a brass bristle is that is what you have. The purpose of cleaning any funk/rust off the seat is so you can further evaluate the seat.



The lapping compound I use is from the local orielly store, it’s a permatex product, I’m not sure what grit it is to be honest with you. If the upper ball is a 3/8 size, Yes you will want to use 3/8” ball in conjunction with lapping compound (if needed). Any metal stem will work, you just want it to be round, I have a set that I picked up from HPS years ago, but others have been successful using super glue to fit the stem to the ball, just make sure you are centered on the ball as best as possible.



Yes you picture is of a carbide tipped valve tool, that is super aggressive for most jobs.

Finally made the time to clean the seat on the valve and the 2 1/4 NORCO jack is now working great, no handle feedback anymore.

It only took a few minutes to do, thanks again everyone and specially Hiball for all the help!

The issue was that the jack would start going down when under load at the same time that the handle would come up.

I bought a long aluminum rod from Ace ($2 or $3 for that), JB weld that I had laying around and valve lapping compound (online, $6 or $7 if I recall correctly?). The ball bearing was around 25 or 50 cents at Ace as well.

I left the smaller steel ball inside the jack while cleaning the upper seat. As Hiball mentioned, you can clearly feel the “sanding” taking place while you are at it. After I felt the seat was clean enough, I turned the hydraulic unit upside down (being careful to catch the small ball bearing) and forced fluid through the valve in hopes to catch as much debris before it would reach deeper into the system.

Then I emptied the fluid completely and cleaned it up with compressed air.
Replaced the small ball bearing, then the bigger ball bearing on top and gave it a whack with a punch to form the seat. Filled up with clean hydraulic jack fluid, bleed the jack and gave it a go.

EDIT: The handle feedback persists, will try cleaning the seat again and report back.

This is what I used to clean the seat:

 

[ALTEREGO]

hi all, i signed up on this site for repair help for a torin T83505W 6000 lb floor jack. i bought from a kid who needed money but it looks like he tore it apart and now it wont lift at all. i was wondering if anyone knows the placement of the ball bearings, or if there is even any supposed to be in the release valve at all. it looks like the bottom of release valve is seated so i assume that one goes there? but what size? when you turn release valve, the handle will turn indefinately in each direction. im really frustrated with this jack

Hi Myakimo,

Not sure if you already had this, but I hope this helps:

 

[Myakimo]

hey alterego, yes i have seen that diagram before. unfortunately, i need the power unit parts diagram. i replaced all seals from lazarrs kit. i believe whoever had the jack before me, tried to fix but switched balls, etc, - i just need to know what size balls, if any, springs, if any, and spacers, if any where they go in the main power unit. thanks,