OP
Bigredford
Well-known member
I haven't asked. But I thought id look at getting either a 40 or a 60.
This is starting as a hobby shop but my goal is self employment.
Anything smaller then a 40 won't run my big welder.
Panels for a 400 amp service
- Thread starter Bigredford
- Start date
I haven't asked. But I thought id look at getting either a 40 or a 60.
This is starting as a hobby shop but my goal is self employment.
Anything smaller then a 40 won't run my big welder.
I haven't asked. But I thought id look at getting either a 40 or a 60.
This is starting as a hobby shop but my goal is self employment.
Anything smaller then a 40 won't run my big welder.
how often are you welding 2" steel in a single pass?
Look i'm all for overkill now. My vote is dual 60hp's just cause. but its not my money.
Park this next to the shop:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-100kW-...774200?hash=item34281526b8:g:9V0AAOSw42Feva5v
https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-100kW-...774200?hash=item34281526b8:g:9V0AAOSw42Feva5v
OP
Bigredford
Well-known member
Dagny
Well-known member
yuk.
Agreed. That is going to be a ***** to pull wire between the meter can & the gutter.
wyliesdiesels
Well-known member
damn thats gonna be real fun bending the wire through those 2 LBs
Id get rid of the LBs, move the main disconnects over closer to the meter pan and move the gutten under the meter pan. then drop a pipe from the meter pan to the gutter.
youll thank me later
Id get rid of the LBs, move the main disconnects over closer to the meter pan and move the gutten under the meter pan. then drop a pipe from the meter pan to the gutter.
youll thank me later
Mthomas1686
Well-known member
Had to laugh at the second picture. You might be putting in a 400 amp service but the utility company knows that the real load isn't squat. 500? MCM tied to #4 or maybe#2 overhead
Mthomas1686
Well-known member
Seriously its crazy they didn't up the wire size....its 400mcm to I believe #4 overhead. And its tied to my neighbors house from the transformer across the street (about 200' away). I was hoping they would come back and up the wire size.
OP
Bigredford
Well-known member
Had a electrician out today to qote doing some work.
Basicly fix what I've done outside. Wire everything up from the meter to the disconnects to my main panels.
Ground rods and ground the building frame.
Basicly fix what I've done outside. Wire everything up from the meter to the disconnects to my main panels.
Ground rods and ground the building frame.
wyliesdiesels
Well-known member
Doesnt even look like #4. Maybe #6....
They mostly follow NESC. If it really needed 400A they'd probably be somewhere around 2/0-4/0 aluminum.
Thing is they know his load isn't even close to 400A. I bet most of the time it's under 100A.
When I'm replacing a service I usually end up putting in a 200A. Hardly ever enough load to actually need it but the cost difference isn't much. The utility company will ask if you're adding any load. unless there is something substantial they're not changing anything on their end. Really no reason to.
Thing is they know his load isn't even close to 400A. I bet most of the time it's under 100A.
When I'm replacing a service I usually end up putting in a 200A. Hardly ever enough load to actually need it but the cost difference isn't much. The utility company will ask if you're adding any load. unless there is something substantial they're not changing anything on their end. Really no reason to.
I replaced a service a few years ago. It was overloaded and burned up a 400 amp pole top switch. Ended up just bypassing it to get through the fall and put in a 600 in the spring.
The old 400A was fed with #4 AL. That wire had got pretty toasty. The plastic insulators were melting off the crimps and the insulation was drooping in a few spots.
when I bought my house, we had the service upgraded to 200A. Utility has a formula, based on square footage, that says what the load is going to be, and based on that, the wire they use to feed the house. That means they left the #6 triplex. (They will replace if the actual usage warrants, but usually that's after it's melted and shorted.) Looks pretty silly spliced to the 4/0 NEC requires for the customer size, but since I'm pretty sure the highest actual load has been less than 100A, I'm sure they're right about it.
mike93lx
ALLIANCE MEMBER
My last house had 60a service. Electric dryer, electric range, two fridges, three sump pumps, two portable a/c's, a dehumidifier, computers, tvs, etc.
Never once had any issue.
My current house has 100a service, but even with two fridges, a freezer, some lights, my furnace and my well pump.running, I am pulling only 5kw per the meters on my generator inlet.
When I had that panel replaced, I thought about going up to 200a until the utility told me they would be changing exactly nothing. The extra cost on my end was a waste then.
People tend to grossly over estimate their needs.
i highly suggest power monitoring for people if they are curious. i use myeyedro
I can roll back to consumption at any point in time. heres a lovely summer day.
https://i.imgur.com/aZBL2V2l.png
OP
Bigredford
Well-known member
No your fine. I need the advice.
I learned today what Myers hubs are. Didn't know they existed.
wyliesdiesels
Well-known member
The picture does not load
100A would have been enough, but here wasn't a panel with the number of spaces required that comes with a 100A main installed, so it would have meant buying a 200A panel, and changing the main. As I recall, that was about the same as the difference in wire, and the only difference was the size of conduit installed between the panel to the weatherhead. The cost difference was less than $200, on a job that cost many thousands (total rewire).
dcg9381
Well-known member
nope... (may be easier to attach it)
wyliesdiesels
Well-known member
i dont think imgur allows external access
thats like their whole business model.
try this. click the link. it says auth denied. then refresh. does it load?
https://i.imgur.com/aZBL2V2.png
i uploaded here just in case.
Attachments
wyliesdiesels
Well-known member
nope still wont load no matter how many times i refresh. still says 403 denied
mike93lx
ALLIANCE MEMBER
The attachment is a graph
86turbodsl
Well-known member
My opinion, but i don't think there's much a single guy in a hobby shop can do without multiple CNC machines running that could use up a 60hp RPC. Even your air compressor is overkill. 20hp. No way a single guy working could use that much air by himself. If all your machines are manual, consider sizing your rpc and service down. I used to have a 50hp rpc, and it was overkill. Most of my machines are manual and i'm down to a 20hp rpc. There just aren't any machines big enough to need that kind of capacity unless you are running some GIANT stuff in your hobby shop.
slodat
ALLIANCE MEMBER
I too have a 20HP RPC. I power a 15HP lathe with it.
OP
Bigredford
Well-known member
Interesting. I've always been told you need your phase converter to be 2x the largest motor.
The 400 amp service is a done deal at this point.
The 400 amp service is a done deal at this point.
Really depends on the phase converter and the load. I've ran a 75hp motor on a 60hp phase converter before (60hp idler, rated to run 120hp total). I would absolutely not recommend doing that but it was an existing phase converter and it worked other than the soft start occasionally kicking out on phase loss during startup. Eventually the bearings got bad in the converter and I convinced the guy to get a bigger phase converter.
Doesn't even have a warranty?
mike93lx
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Its Grey market (export only)
aussieblake
Active member
- Joined
- Dec 26, 2013
- Messages
- 34
I apologize as I did not read through all the responses. In my experience in the electrical industry as an electrical contractor and as a electrical design professional, you probably need to have a supply house quote you a custom panel. Most single phase stock panels have a limit branch mounted breaker size limitation of 100 amps, some manufacturers will actually allow a 110 amp breaker for BRANCH MOUNTED, Branch mounted refers to same space as say a 20 amp breaker. When you get above the branch mounted breaker limitation it becomes SEPARATELY MOUNTED, which is similar to when the MAIN breaker is mounted separately above or below the branch breakers. The terms Branch mounted and Separately mounted are what the industry uses. I write specifications for large projects, those are the terms in the software, and as an electrician it makes logical sense. If you need help with what to ask for feel free to PM me. It is pretty simple if you are familiar with the nomenclature. Just an FYI this is not going to be a $300 panel. You are into the commercial style panels with you have large separately mounted mains. Also figure out all the breakers you want for it, add some spares, because pricing a panel and breakers makes the breakers less expensive then buying the off the shelf.