Pliers; How Many Is Too Many?

[MisterEd]

At first I thought the SigO had found a Saw Set, but, alas, she had not. Instead the Plier she found is a “Leather Treadle Belt Plier Tool Punch” used to “effortlessly cut round leather belts” and punch holes in them for joining the ends with a Belt Hook.

I did not diligently seek information about Sargent & Co of New Haven Conn. I was more fascinated by a woman’s tale of trying to pound a hole in a round leather belt using a hammer and nail. This Plier probably works a bit better.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I did not diligently seek information about Sargent & Co of New Haven Conn.

Those are rebranded Bernard design pliers. William Bernard patented belt pliers (for treadle and later automatic sewing machines) in 1892, 1913, and 1931 for manufacture by Wm. Schollhorn & Company. In 1948, Sargent acquired Wm. Schollhorn equipment (machinery, tooling, etc), inventory, and rights to manufacture, made them a division, and used the Bernard name on their own tools. By 1961 all traces of the lineage were gone from Sargent manufacturing and literature. You can see several distant cousins of those pliers on the Schollhorn thread.

 

[MisterEd]

You can see several distant cousins of those pliers on the Schollhorn thread.

My not so distant cousins are Mennonites.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

My not so distant cousins...

In hindsight, a better analogy would've been direct ancestors, due to the near spittin' images. You can see several grandfathers of your Sargent belt punch on the Schollhorn thread. And if that's too far to travel, here are two of mine...

 

[MisterEd]

And if that's too far to travel

Actually visited the site briefly.

Discovering the ingenuity of people to develop tools for narrow, necessary purposes is one of the best reasons for tool obsessions and for scrolling the pages of Garage Journal. Glad you and others are a part of the journey.

 

[d42jeep]

I found these pliers at a tool sale yesterday. I expect that someone will be able to ID the maker.
-Don

 

[Outlawmws]

Got these a week ago Saturday out of the "jewelry makers" 6 drawer machinist's box.

Utica 22, (I had to bob one jaw as the other was busted off. They still have 3/16 ths of teeth left)
Pluck*ett (new name to me - yes they stamped the * - and no info I can find on them - name is inside the grip. and one flat jaw, one curved.
and S&H wire forming - Smith and Hemenway - - See also Red devil



And Enders No 15 from last Sat.:

 

[RTM]

Pluk*ett (new name to me - yes they stamped the * - and no info I can find on them - name is inside the grip. and one flat jaw, one curved.

Just BSing until the coffee kicks in:

Pluk translated from Dutch or Swedish (and probably other Nordic languages) is Pick, so maybe its an import with a usage name.

ett is just an article (a, an, the etc)

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Pluk*ett (new name to me - yes they stamped the * - and no info I can find on them

Hmm. If you told me the name was Ph*ckett that asterisk would make a lot more sense!

 

[Outlawmws]

Hmm. If you told me the name was Ph*ckett that asterisk would make a lot more sense!

Yeah, even in the current positioning, I had that thought.

Good point RTM! I had not thought of a foreign language... several prewar tools from Germany.

2X edit: I fixed the spelling - missed the "C" - Pluck*ett

 

[RTM]

fixed the spelling - missed the "C" - Pluck*ett

****, now I need to start over

 

[Outlawmws]

Google and other translators are not liking this, apparently "Pluck" is only recognized as English...

Browser AI won't follow instructions... Not surprised, effing useless tech.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Post a photo of the marking.

 

[Outlawmws]

Not sure I can get this new camera to cooperate. its **** at closeups... and garbage for lighting. and that's when it doesn't decide to do something completely different. Cannon blew it with this one.

 

[Outlawmws]

Best I cloud squeeze out of it:

I should probably have chalked it, but I didn't think of that till now.

 

[Oregon Dave]

I found these pliers at a tool sale yesterday. I expect that someone will be able to ID the maker.
-Don

Surprised no one has taken a crack at these: the, ‘more open’, ‘Cross-Hatched Grip Pattern’(Raised Ridges/Depressed Diamonds) with the two transverse end lines was used by numerous tool makers; Bonney, Harrold, Herbrand etc. The handle shape and profile is very common of that era, the peened pivot hex nut is not - look for some decal/sticker residue - may have said China. Best definite maybe guess.

 

[LesserSon]

Best I cloud squeeze out of it:

I should probably have chalked it, but I didn't think of that till now.

I’d rather read that Plucknett, as in C.J. Plucknett & Co, Ltd.
But I don’t see pliers in the 1885 catalog.

 

[LesserSon]

Oops - looked too fast: there they are, on p12!

 

[LesserSon]

And notice the other names on the pliers illustrations - “F ****”, etc. I feel we’re getting closer to “Ph*ckett.”

 

[Outlawmws]

The name makes better sense. but that is a Horrible "N" but after chalking the name I'd agree even though 1/3 the "n" is MIA...

one or two of the pliers on page 12 do have similar grip shapes, (none match the jaws) but that one that looks closest has another co's name on the artwork and its not the only one, but they are all different.

Maybe a newer catalog? Doing a search on the "new" name...

 

[RTM]

I’d rather read that Plucknett, as in C.J. Plucknett & Co, Ltd.
But I don’t see pliers in the 1885 catalog.

Since Plucknett might be the retailer, and not the manufacturer, this Benj. Allen catalog might be similar tools and makers, just to widen your search of types.

Benj. Allen & Co. : Catalogue No. 22 of Watch Materials, Tools and Jewelers' Supplies : Benjamin Allen & Co. : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

806 p., illus., 23.2 cm, trade catalog

archive.org

 

[four.cycle]

Since Plucknett might be the retailer, and not the manufacturer, this Benj. Allen catalog might be similar tools and makers, just to widen your search of types.

^ Just a quick glance at that Plucknett catalog tells me "wholesaler", not "manufacturer".
Nobody ever made that many different items all under the same roof.

 

[Stubby1743]

I found these this morning at my local car boot sale. Wilkinsons dated 1937. They have had a very easy life with no damage to the jaw serrations and no notches in the cutter.

Here is an advert from 1938.

 

[four.cycle]

Indestro pliers

(The slip-joints at bottom are "X-Pert" models 90901 and 90902 - made in Japan for Indestro.)

 

[Stubby1743]

Whenever I see Elliot Lucas tools in good condition being offered for sale at car boot sales I will always buy them. They are top quality.

The red handled needle nosed pliers have the TM etched rather than stamped and have the UK Govt. property mark and 1994 date.

 

[Provincial]

I showed these on the Utica thread, but thought they might be of interest here:

Utica No. 516 pliers for adjusting Steeldraulic brakes on 1930's cars.


Here is how they were used:

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Just x-linking another Mayhew SOLID JOINT type plier, my second, this one thin-nose.

 

[SquirrelsTools]

Anyone know what the addition on these jaws is? Can't find anything on the serial number (they're individually stamped)

 

[Outlawmws]

The "TB" on that numbered jaw screams Thomas and Bett's to me. but clearly very old... - any markings on the base (Utica?) pliers left?

 

[SquirrelsTools]

The "TB" on that numbered jaw screams Thomas and Bett's to me. but clearly very old... - any markings on the base (Utica?) pliers left?

Been over them with a literal magnifying glass. Just the Utica triple diamond and the "1000" stamp. I thought the add ons were some kind of nipper, but they don't seem to have ever met. They look fragile for any kind of crimper but if they're Thomas and Betts maybe that?

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Anyone know what the addition on these jaws is? Can't find anything on the serial number (they're individually stamped)

I don't "know" anything about them, but I have some thoughts for your consideration.

For starters, it's highly doubtful those mods are factory. Yes, they have numbers, and for shop mods, someone went through a lot of work to identify each piece by a number, but the numbers, whatever they signify, were clearly stamped by hand, one figure at a time. As for the Thomas and Betts theory, note that one number is TB57911, but the other is just T57911. Almost as if the prefixes 'T' and 'TB' are signifying two different pieces, perhaps due to which jaw, etc.

Button's pattern pliers - which is what those are, matching the Utica 1000 part number, are a great choice for some kind of home/shop made crimping (or any other) jaw attachments, because they present a long, straight and flat surface for affixing them. Not too many other types do if you think about it. Glaziers or leather/cloth pullers, but they are extremely wide. Duckbills, but they are too thin for fastening the attachments.

 

[Outlawmws]

they present a long, straight and flat surface for affixing them.

While true, these appear to have has the jaws milled further as the screwed on jaws are seated against a shoulder. leaving almost the original profile.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

^ I saw that. But he couldn't have even seated what are essentially straight flat pieces in the slightly milled jaws of any other kind of plier. I'm just saying it makes sense if he was looking to "make" crimpers (for whatever reason) that way - by attaching two pieces to existing pliers, the Button's pattern was a good choice.

 

[Outlawmws]

Some of the Bernard/schollhorn pliers might have been good candidates.

I'm impressed with any machine work on the jaws at all. I tied modifying a pair of cheap lineman's a couple months back and a carbide tipped drill was defeated... Those were super hard.

 

[SquirrelsTools]

^ I saw that. But he couldn't have even seated what are essentially straight flat pieces in the slightly milled jaws of any other kind of plier. I'm just saying it makes sense if he was looking to "make" crimpers (for whatever reason) that way - by attaching two pieces to existing pliers, the Button's pattern was a good choice.

It just seems like a ton of effort and serial numbering for a set of purchasable crimpers. That said, I've seen my fair share of modified tools (We call them ranches in this house) some certainly that could have been bought for a cheaper cost than the modification. I catalog a couple hundred tools a year at this point, maybe another pair with context will turn up.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

It just seems like a ton of effort and serial numbering for a set of purchasable crimpers.

Oh trust me, I agree. Beyond the application of the marking, the implications of a 5-digit number are hard to fathom to begin with. How many mods has the guy made? Are they serial? Does it match a piece of equipment (such as a type of connector to be crimped)? But those markings, one freaking figure punch at a time, without even bothering to score a light baseline..., are not professional or commercial.

 

[SquirrelsTools]

Oh trust me, I agree. Beyond the application of the marking, the implications of a 5-digit number are hard to fathom to begin with. How many mods has the guy made? Are they serial? Does it match a piece of equipment (such as a type of connector to be crimped)? But those markings, one freaking figure punch at a time, without even bothering to score a light baseline..., are not professional or commercial.

Inversely, they could be in house shop markings. I worked in the machinists field off and on for several years. God help me I love unions, but they do allow some unprofessional people slide by occasionally. That could account for the sloppy stamping.

 

[Beerhippie]

Oh trust me, I agree. Beyond the application of the marking, the implications of a 5-digit number are hard to fathom to begin with. How many mods has the guy made? Are they serial? Does it match a piece of equipment (such as a type of connector to be crimped)? But those markings, one freaking figure punch at a time, without even bothering to score a light baseline..., are not professional or commercial.

Inventory control at a large plant?

 

[msharley]

Anyone know what the addition on these jaws is? Can't find anything on the serial number (they're individually stamped)

Fencing pliers.

Those are to shear wire...almost effortlessly.

 

[Beerhippie]

Fencing pliers.

Those are to shear wire...almost effortlessly.

That's the base "Button" pattern pliers--the additions sure look like crimpers.