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Pliers; How Many Is Too Many?

SquirrelsTools

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Oct 5, 2023
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Flint Michigan
Inventory control at a large plant?
That's my best guess. I live in Flint Mi, guys steal tools from plants and shops all the time. I get my stuff in bulk estate auction lots and restore it. I've come across plant tools before, and even measuring tools from the Ford X garage circa Carol Shelby. Just never a set of these. God I love this 🤣.
 
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rustyedge1

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Indiana
Trying to ID these pliers with circle H mark nothing els. Don’t know about Craftsman, don’t believe Herbrand ?
Any ideas ?
 

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LesserSon

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Everything BUT the circle-H is Harrold. I have not seen a circle-H on Harrold pliers before, but there it is. Sears did contract with Harrold, but AFAIK, only for the “HappiTime”-marked boys tools set slipjoints.
 

LesserSon

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IMG_7057.jpeg
THIS is what too many pliers looks like: you pass up three pairs of Utica 511 and two messed-up Red Devils, only to pay for an oddball Buttons with an acetylene valve cutout in the jaws that is also messed-up (bottom), only to discover you have a beautiful pair of the same model back home (top).
 

rustyedge1

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Everything BUT the circle-H is Harrold. I have not seen a circle-H on Harrold pliers before, but there it is. Sears did contract with Harrold, but AFAIK, only for the “HappiTime”-marked boys tools set slipjoints.
Do you think these are Harrold pliers ? They look like those I’ve seen.
 

Oregon Dave

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SquirrelsTools:

Another scenario is we have an electrician/electronic tech that is or has a good friend that is a tool & die man; did a LOT of cutting & crimping - good ol' dependable American ingenuity kicked in.

Do agree that steel could be quite a challenge to work with; plus drilling and tapping the four holes - the hammering dings on the jaws however, point to some malleability. If you ever get a chance to remove the inserts; there may some clues as to whether the jaws were ground or machined to accept the inserts - plus there are some shade-tree tests for steel hardness.

I tend to disregard the stamping, for now, why bother; could have already been on the material chosen for the inserts.
 
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LesserSon

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Do you think these are Harrold pliers ? They look like those I’ve seen.
Yes, unequivocally.
Here are some examples of mine.
1757899673509.jpeg
1757899731804.jpeg
I cannot explain the H-circle. I don’t think Craftsman had any protected rights to their manufacturer codes, so I don’t think New Britain has anything to do with it. I also don’t imagine Sears would contract for pliers with a manufacturer that didn’t manufacture pliers.
 

Oregon Dave

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Yes, unequivocally.
Here are some examples of mine.
1757899673509.jpeg
1757899731804.jpeg
I cannot explain the H-circle. I don’t think Craftsman had any protected rights to their manufacturer codes, so I don’t think New Britain has anything to do with it. I also don’t imagine Sears would contract for pliers with a manufacturer that didn’t manufacture pliers.
It is more than a definite maybe that rustyedge1’s pliers were made in the same facility that made Harrold brand.

I have a pair of those 'not so refined' stamped out thin noses that are stamped circularly "MADE USA" only; has double end bars on the oblique cross-hatched handle grip pattern and rivets heads on the pivot bolt - put 'em in with yours; be tough to pick them out, after a color match.
 

Outlawmws

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I cannot explain the H-circle. I don’t think Craftsman had any protected rights to their manufacturer codes, so I don’t think New Britain has anything to do with it. I also don’t imagine Sears would contract for pliers with a manufacturer that didn’t manufacture pliers.

If they were already a primary provider, and had the contractual "In" with Sears, they did do third party procurement.

Compare the circle H to a clearly NB tool - are they the same? They are marked Craftsman, and Sears would not have used an active makers mark for another supplier.
 

Private Lugnutz

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Wait. Why are we talking about Craftsman? There is no way that's a Craftsman tool without a Craftsman branding. As for it being an NB tool, that makes no sense to me. I can't think of any case where a Craftsman code was used as branding by the Sears supplier it was associated with outside of Sears/Craftsman. Craftsman codes, including Circle-H, are usually small, much smaller than branding, and placed adjacent and often subordinate to branding. The size and primary placement of this H in a circle clearly smacks of being its own logo or trademark. As for the mark itself, I'm pretty sure the H inside the circle of the Craftsman code, like all letters inside all other Craftsman codes, does not touch the circle. The arms and legs of the H in this marking, in contrast, intentionally merges, by design, with the circle.

My $.02, anyway. Which may be worth much less than that after my erroneous opinion of the grip pattern! :) (I have a lowly opinion of Harrold, probably influenced by them growing on trees around here alongside their economy line 'MH monogram in a circle' McKaig-Hatch made brethren, I don't own a single pair, and I could've sworn the dozens I have left behind at flea markets were smooth handled. I was clearly wrong!)

With the grip pattern matching Harrold production, and that big H, isn't Occam's Razor screaming Harrold, despite its apparent rarity as a marking?

EDIT: Afterthought: Maybe not so odd given how many variants of markings they have. HARROLD in a circle, that triangular indent with the <-H-> marking (which seems to be a modification of the "<-H.J.H.->" marking they TM'ed), no branding, etc.
 
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Oregon Dave

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Re: rustyedge1’s pliers.

SquirrelsTools posted: Agreed, that's why I suggested Harrold in the first place. It's such a distinct plier, and I dig em so I pick them up often to catalog/restore.

I wasn’t any way questioning your identification; to me it is very obvious they are made on the same machine that made Harrold’s pliers. I thought this was about the H in a circle stamped on Harrolds pliers and was offering another unique logo/stamping on one of mine. See d42jeep’s top picture in post #1,060; posted this morning - that’s them.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Harrold’s pliers are certainly not in the top echelon of tool quality; they look like ‘Tool-Kit’ pliers of the 30’s - Hudson Motors issued tool kits, can anyone else think of an auto maker’s name beginning with a H.

Conventional google searching has only yielded for me, that pliers was likely included in Hudson’s tool kits - possibly more skilled researches can locate and image or etc.
 

four.cycle

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Kraeuter 1130-7 7 in linemans pliers KRAEU091325 01.jpg
Kraeuter 1130-7 7-inch linemans pliers
 

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four.cycle

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Decker Hill's Ringer Western Wire hog ring pliers 091725 01.jpg
Western Wire, St. Louis, MO (top) Hog Ring Pliers

Decker "Hill's Hog Ringer" (bottom) Hog Ring Pliers

The Western Wire pair sports a price sticker from Ernst Hardware, which went out of business in 1996.

The Decker pair is marked "DECKER'S HILL RINGER" - referring to Hugh W. Hill's 1872 patent 130853
 

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Outlawmws

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Unusual Wiss wire cutting pliers - First pair I ever saw. Wire, cable, and at least one ad claimed wire stripping? :dunno:

I did easily cut a heavy coat hanger wire as a test.

Missing a "stop bolt" on on the pad to the inside of the grips, and a wire keeper to hold them closed at the tips of the grips, but for a buck it's fine. I can make/fix both I'm sure.

Wiss.jpg
 

Private Lugnutz

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Picked up these long bent nosers at the flea market this morning. Well made. Love the bowed handles. No markings of any kind.
 

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Private Lugnutz

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That hexagonal (or octagonal?) handle shape and the striations at the lower end of the handle look pretty distinctive from here!
Hex. Machined that way, leaving unfinished marks on the outside. The raggedy remains of red insulated handles that were on them when I found them (see below)* were probably original, and possibly a clue to use case. But I'm pretty sure what Outlaw meant by distinctive was identifiable, such as a well-known pattern.

* Never mind. Can't load photo. Third one in last couple weeks. Not sure what's happening, but it's very irritating. Ever since I got upgraded to Windows 11. It's not size. I reduced that down to barely nothing, still won't attach or insert. I took the photo in the same string of photos as the others that attached just fine above, just before I cut off the handle, de-rusted and cleaned it.
 
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four.cycle

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The raggedy remains of red insulated handles that were on them when I found them (see below)* were probably original,
AHH! The striations were probably there to keep the plastic handles from slipping off!

I've been having all kinds of issues uploading photos for two months. Mostly it's when I am trying to upload them using the "Attach files" button at lower left so they're not taking up so much screen space for the viewer at the other end.
Some of them I have to downsize (using Windows Paint)
Some of them I have to remove all the file properties.
Some of them I have to open with Windows Paint, select "Save as", and save as a *.jpg file (which it already IS), and then it will upload.
Makes no sense at all. Driving me crazy lately.
 

four.cycle

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^ And the craziest of all: after doing ALL of the above, on a couple of them I've opened the file, clicked "PRINT SCREEN", pasted the image from the buffer into a blank Windows "Paint" file, saved it as a *.jpg, cropped it with another program, removed all the embedded file properties, downsized it with Windows "Paint" again, and then finally managed to get it to upload.
I've sent @Ryan several examples but thus far I don't know if the problem has been addressed.
The O/S here is "Windows 10 Pro" in a desktop, if that means anything.
 
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