Plomb tool picture thread - show your stuff!

[twertsy]

Not sure if these are readable. First 2 pics are 14" and second 2 are a 10", both transition.

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[Private Lugnutz]

both transition

Thanks, twertsy. So the "recessed" dual PROTO MDF PLVMB marking? I don't have any like that. What's your take. Forged or stamped?

 

[twertsy]

Thanks, twertsy. So the "recessed" dual PROTO MDF PLVMB marking? I don't have any like that. What's your take. Forged or stamped?

They're stamped. I have 3 Plomb versions, all #/7 and all forged.

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[Mooreag47]

Will do notlob

 

[Private Lugnutz]

They're stamped. I have 3 Plomb versions, all #/7 and all forged.

Thanks. That moves my needle back to 1949.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

In an off-board conversation with twertsy, he had a good thought to further test my theory. J.P. Danielson was also making Plomb's adjustable crescent type wrenches at this time. As well as some of their pliers, water pumps, at the very least. They might very well be date coded, a common J.P. Danielson practice. Does anyone have any dual branded PROTO PLVMB adjustable crescent type wrenches or water pump pliers? If so, please post them.

 

[Oregon rock crusher]

Not sure if it helps the cause but here are a couple pics of a dual stamped 16" adjustable. It does have a possible date code near the hanging hole in the end of the handle. Ed.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

It is VERY helpful, Ed.

It is without a doubt a J.P. Danielson made wrench with a J.P. Danielson date code. The size ("16 in.") was forged-in when the date code ("K.1.8.") was forged-in, when the wrench was made, in January 1948. What's curiously and very conspicuously missing is the typical forged-in branding. Why would they do that is the question it begs. Because the dual PROTO and PLVMB branding is stamped, the date of the stamping is not necessarily the same date as the date of the forging. And in this case, because the brands are stamped on different sides of the wrench, they may not have been stamped at the same time, either. Like Ole Slew's and Todd's J.P. Danielson made pipe wrenches, it supports the theory that Plomb, in the midst of its litigation woes with Plumb, may have been intentionally ordering and stockpiling un-finished tools, originally forged by J.P. Danielson in early and mid 1948, while it weighed its options, and stamped them with their ill-fated dual-branding solution in 1949, when the Time Magazine and Duke University period documents indicate the PROTO name first appeared on tools.

EDIT: What would bust the theory is J.P. Danielson tools with forged-in 1948 date codes and a forged-in PROTO branding.

 

[Oregon rock crusher]

Here are a few pics of various Plomb name knurl pliers. Not wanting to trade but thought I'd put out a few pics. The first two pics are 206, 207, and 209 side cutters along with a 226 needle nose. The 209's are a significantly different design. The second couple pics are of 218 battery pliers and 228 chain nose pliers which are very similar to the 227 duck bill set Lugz posted a few days back. No date codes on any of these I can find. Ed.

 

[notlob]

dual stamped 16" adjustable.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Not wanting to trade but...

When you have to caveat a post with photos like this to forestall a deluge of PM offers, you know you have an active enthusiastic collecting community!

Very nice, Ed!

 

[Ole Slewfoot]

Some very nice pebbly grips on those pliers.

I picked up this cheap no- name racetrack rat on the bay It's actually 1/4 drive too, which I will probably use more than nine dirtytoofs, although that wold have been fine too.
Also ofnote, its made in USA, presumably prior to 'MFD'.

 

[four.cycle]

^ I have one of those that came in an Oxwall set. I thought it was Oxwall because of the "O" forged in the handle! Another member pointed out that it was not Oxwall.



^ So this is a Plomb ratchet somebody stuck into this kit?

 

[Ole Slewfoot]

Yes, well, there is atheoretical possibility it is Proto, but that wold probably be marked 'MFD'. some have a letter in the O one of mine has aU, some just have the O, and I think some don't have it. It wold be a WF-8 if its 9/32, and WF-8s if its 1/4"

Plomb might also have been making them for Oxwall, it is the cheap ratchet.

Mine felt a little dry.... wow its like new inside except the dust that used to be grease.
I added a tiny dab of Timken red stuff.

Also noticed locating holes for the spring in the back of the pawls.

 

[twertsy]

It is VERY helpful, Ed.

It is without a doubt a J.P. Danielson made wrench with a J.P. Danielson date code. The size ("16 in.") was forged-in when the date code ("K.1.8.") was forged-in, when the wrench was made, in January 1948. What's curiously and very conspicuously missing is the typical forged-in branding. Why would they do that is the question it begs. Because the dual PROTO and PLVMB branding is stamped, the date of the stamping is not necessarily the same date as the date of the forging. And in this case, because the brands are stamped on different sides of the wrench, they may not have been stamped at the same time, either. Like Ole Slew's and Todd's J.P. Danielson made pipe wrenches, it supports the theory that Plomb, in the midst of its litigation woes with Plumb, may have been intentionally ordering and stockpiling un-finished tools, originally forged by J.P. Danielson in early and mid 1948, while it weighed its options, and stamped them with their ill-fated dual-branding solution in 1949, when the Time Magazine and Duke University period documents indicate the PROTO name first appeared on tools.

EDIT: What would bust the theory is J.P. Danielson tools with forged-in 1948 date codes and a forged-in PROTO branding.

10, 8 and 6" transitions. All stamped.



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[Private Lugnutz]

10, 8 and 6" transitions. All stamped.

Thanks, twertsy.

Plomb might also have been making them for Oxwall, it is the cheap ratchet.

Maybe it was the other way around! I had a WF-8-S with that "O" mark, I've seen it on other Plomb ratchets, and I always assumed it was a factory or forge ID. Tin Medic owns that one now if somebody needs a pic.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

As a caution, to myself included, it is prudent to note that adjustable crescent type wrenches made by J.P. Danielson for other Plomb Empire managed brands were produced the same way, leaving it up to the Plomb Empire to stamp different brands in the panels. Whether that was always the initial reason, or it followed later, I don't know. The P&C and PENENS examples below have 1950 and 1954 date codes. I've never seen P&C or PENENS adjustables with 1947, 1948, or 1949 date codes. J.P. Danielson was acquired at the very end of 1946. Were the Plomb brands in the adjustables they were making for Plomb proper in 1947 forged-in or stamped? The pipe wrenches were forged-in, but I am coming up empty on examples of the adjustables.

 

[twertsy]

As a caution, to myself included, it is prudent to note that adjustable crescent type wrenches made by J.P. Danielson for other Plomb Empire managed brands were produced the same way, leaving it up to the Plomb Empire to stamp different brands in the panels. Whether that was always the initial reason, or it followed later, I don't know. The P&C and PENENS examples below have 1950 and 1954 date codes. I've never seen P&C or PENENS adjustables with 1947, 1948, or 1949 date codes. J.P. Danielson was acquired at the very end of 1946. Were the Plomb brands in the adjustables they were making for Plomb proper in 1947 forged-in or stamped? The pipe wrenches were forged-in, but I am coming up empty on examples of the adjustables.

Forged in. Both Y-4-7



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[RubiconJK]

Thanks, twertsy.


Maybe it was the other way around! I had a WF-8-S with that "O" mark, I've seen it on other Plomb ratchets, and I always assumed it was a factory or forge ID. Tin Medic owns that one now if somebody needs a pic.

Here is a pic of one of my 8-S 1/4 drive ratchets with the "O" mark. I'll check my other one later to see if it has the same mark.

 

[twertsy]

P&C are all stamped.



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[drivesitfar]

ORC: great looking pliers and a nifty way of taking pictures of them too!!

Twertsy, Lug, & others: thanks for the good posts on the dating and tools. just to sum up the dating stamps with all the letters and single #'s is this listed on a single post or maybe on Twertsy's site or AA?

the beginning letter, then space then #, then space and # means ??

 

[Ole Slewfoot]

The larger rats also have the circle, the Craftsman ones have a U in it.
I thought an overxealous PO had wirewheeld the smooth side of my lil WF-8 looking for a brand, but not that its cleanish, it is very clearly a very smoothly done grind. I guess that was the deal on employee purchase tools among other possibilities.

On the Danielson stuff, whats the odds 'outsourced' tools were stamped just to make the multibranding and contract production easier and nothing really to do with the Plumb shenannigans?

 

[Private Lugnutz]

On the Danielson stuff, whats the odds 'outsourced' tools were stamped just to make the multibranding and contract production easier and nothing really to do with the Plumb shenannigans?

That's what I was referring to in post #3381. Still mulling it all over, personally.

 

[RubiconJK]

Today I found this Plomb 2006, 7" long Bendix brake adjustment tool that is in really good condition. Also found the other little tool that is completely unmarked. It is 5" long and had a pointed awl type tip on one end and a flat pry tip on the other. Pretty neat little tool.

 

[RagTopTA]

Hit s bunch of sales and stores today and found some old rusty stuff.... in it this P&C Pebble. A First for me... while Im cleaning it up any one got a guess what it might be? : )

 

[3baygarage]

4 way lug wrench!

 

[GRX]

Hit s bunch of sales and stores today and found some old rusty stuff.... in it this P&C Pebble. A First for me... while Im cleaning it up any one got a guess what it might be? : )

Nice piece.

P&C Tool Company, Portland, Oregon

http://progress-is-fine.blogspot.com/2013/12/vanished-tool-makers-p-tool-company.html

https://www.pnctools.com/pc-factory/pc-under-john-charlie/

 

[RagTopTA]

4 way lug wrench!

Bam!!

$5

 

[RubiconJK]

Bam!!

$5

Bam indeed! Nice, congrats.

 

[drivesitfar]

3bay: good guess or did you have inside information.

Rag: seriously cool. nice find!!

 

[RagTopTA]

Thanks, I was excited to see it! What other Pebble did P&C make? I need to find some catalogs!

 

[jabberwoki]

I have a P&C puller that has the Proto?/Plvmb? ground off and P&C stamped on.

There are also P&C pebble wrenches that look like Proto LA wrenches.

 

[RagTopTA]

cool post some pics of it!

 

[jabberwoki]

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=75443&highlight=jabberwoki

 

[four.cycle]

^ RagTopTA, the lug wrench is fabulous.

Also found the other little tool that is completely unmarked. It is 5" long and had a pointed awl type tip on one end and a flat pry tip on the other. Pretty neat little tool.

It's an early cotter pin removing tool. They were made by a number of different companies. Some of the larger Mossberg socket sets included them.
Here's a couple early catalog snips - they were made with points on both ends or with one pointed end and one flat end:

 

[Private Lugnutz]

while Im cleaning it up any one got a guess what it might be? : )

4 way lug wrench!

Bam!!

3bay: good guess or did you have inside information.

There is NO FREAKING WAY that's a good guess. It could've been anything!!!!! I smell fish. Or 3bay is a mind reader.

EDIT: Yeah, took me about a minute to figure it out. He had OUTSIDE information. RagTap posted the full pictures on the P&C thread!

 

[RagTopTA]

^ RagTopTA, the lug wrench is fabulous.

thanks fourcycle!!

It's an early cotter pin removing tool. They were made by a number of different companies. Some of the larger Mossberg socket sets included them.
Here's a couple early catalog snips - they were made with points on both ends or with one pointed end and one flat end:

There is NO FREAKING WAY that's a good guess. It could've been anything!!!!! I smell fish. Or 3bay is a mind reader.

EDIT: Yeah, took me about a minute to figure it out. He had OUTSIDE information. RagTap posted the full pictures on the P&C thread!

hahahaah Lugs! Look at the times.. I edited the P&C thread to add the other pics at 930
He guessed before I posted it! I was kinda shocked also! 3Bay knew exactly what it was.... how in the world?!?! I was browsing this shop and about to leave. but went back to the old tool section one more time to make sure I didn't miss anything... and saw the Pebble... and realized what it was! It's not hanging with the Blackhawk version I got about a year ago. Wonder if anyone has a Plomb pebble version here ?

 

[RagTopTA]

4 way lug wrench!

Howd you know?!?!? Do you have one? seen one? Are you, in fact, a mind reader? lol

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Then that really is an eerily good guess, because it could've been anything. It wouldn't matter if 3bay has one or has seen one, you're not showing enough of the tool to know that it's not something else. All we see is the logo on a pebble field. It could be any pebble P&C tool. Unless the 4-way lug wrench was the only thing they made that was pebbled, and I don't think that's the case. I'm sure 3bay will enlighten us soon.

 

[RagTopTA]

Then that really is an eerily good guess, because it could've been anything. It wouldn't matter if 3bay has one or has seen one, you're not showing enough of the tool to know that it's not something else. All we see is the logo on a pebble field. It could be any pebble P&C tool. Unless the 4-way lug wrench was the only thing they made that was pebbled, and I don't think that's the case. I'm sure 3bay will enlighten us soon.

Im intrigued as well... That was the idea to just show the logo on a pebbled field : ) I have only seen a P&C ratchet that had some pebble I think... other than that.. This was a first for me. Got any P&C catalog pdfs anywhere you can think of?