Plomb tool picture thread - show your stuff!

[Private Lugnutz]

Box labeled
Plomb Streamlined Tools
12 only item No. 6 Contract W 535-AC-33176 Plomb Tools Contracting Co. Los Angeles, Calif.

Nice find, Kirk!

The contract on your box, with the US Army Air Forces, let out of the old Air Corps (hence the "AC" in the contract number) HQ in Wright Field (hence the "WF" nomenclature on the tools), was the longest and largest wartime contract Plomb had, running from 10/42 to 6/44 and valued at $4.365M. If you're interested in seeing it in the contracts book, I posted an excerpt here. Just scroll down. Same thread has a box that @jabberwoki found a few years ago. Different contract. Different sockets. And a box that I moved on to another collector a long time ago. Same contract, but all WF-11 (5/16") sockets. They show up from time to time. Not super rare, but not super uncommon, either. Always cool to see them.

 

[d42jeep]

The cardboard box is similar to the packaging of the sockets that Plomb supplied to the Navy.
-Don

 

[r_olson_06]

Speaking of NOS. I picked these up on eBay. 11 boxes of NOS Plomb.

 

[r_olson_06]

Hard to believe it has been a week since the last post but I picked up an 18A catalog dated 1940.

 

[four.cycle]

Okay... I give up:

Plomb Tools Contract Company ?

Assuming the same business entity? Operating as a separate division? Or?

 

[Mintgrun]

I found this little 1/4" drive dual-marked #2 Phillips bit today, so I finally have something to put on my custom-made driver.





Once again, the coolest find of the day was also the smallest. I thought I'd bought a Proto driver, until I looked closer at home.

 

[d42jeep]

Here are some kind of unusual 1/4” drive sockets that came in a recent eBay lot.
A 1935 5/16” 8 point socket




A 1942 3/8” 6 point socket.
The same size socket dated 1940.
The entire eBay lot.
-Don

 

[r_olson_06]

I found this little 1/4" drive dual-marked #2 Phillips bit today, so I finally have something to put on my custom-made driver.





Once again, the coolest find of the day was also the smallest. I thought I'd bought a Proto driver, until I looked closer at home.

Nice dually and custom made driver!

Here are some kind of unusual 1/4” drive sockets that came in a recent eBay lot.
A 1935 5/16” 8 point socket




A 1942 3/8” 6 point socket.
The same size socket dated 1940.
The entire eBay lot.
-Don

Nice 1930s socket. I love the stylistic Plomb logo of those early 1/4" sockets. The earliest date I have on the 1/4" stuff what 1935.

 

[r_olson_06]

Picked up this early MSY8 that doesn't have that part number but has a very suspicious Y2 stamp on it. I am trying validate if it is a factory stamp or an aftermarket stamp. Given it is a Y which aligns with the 9/16" Y series socket set it could be factory. Anyone have some thoughts?

 

[Beerhippie]

^WTF is it?

 

[r_olson_06]

^WTF is it?

Early stud puller from circa mid 1920s

 

[MR.X]

In the pic showing 2 tools with different diameter stud holes which is the "Y2"?

 

[r_olson_06]

In the pic showing 2 tools with different diameter stud holes which is the "Y2"?

The smaller diameter is the Y2 marked.

 

[RubiconJK]

Been a minute since finding anything I felt was post worthy, but I thought today's flea market find was worth sharing. I found this 1126-L dual marked dbe while digging in a box and cleaned it up a little after returning home. I don't have many dual marked pieces, but was pleasantly surprised to find that I also have its short little brother that is also dual stamped!!

 

[MR.X]

The smaller diameter is the Y2 marked.

and the larger diameter one is actually marked MSY8?

 

[r_olson_06]

and the larger diameter one is actually marked MSY8?

The larger one I have is marked MSY10. This appears to have the same hole size as the MSY8 according to the stud size in the catalog but I do not have one in my possession to compare to.

 

[r_olson_06]

Been a minute since finding anything I felt was post worthy, but I thought today's flea market find was worth sharing. I found this 1126-L dual marked dbe while digging in a box and cleaned it up a little after returning home. I don't have many dual marked pieces, but was pleasantly surprised to find that I also have its short little brother that is also dual stamped!!

Nice long dually. Not easy to come by.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

a very suspicious Y2 stamp...[ ]...Given it is a Y which aligns with the 9/16" Y series socket set it could be factory. Anyone have some thoughts?

If I'm following the logic of your intuition, Roy, you seem to be suggesting that maybe it's very early, before Plomb made and marketed the stud pullers as standalone items with their own nomenclatures (i.e., MSY8 and MSY10), when it may have been treated like an accessory to the female 9/16-inch drive Y socket set, given a Y prefix, and a number that was not already being used by the sockets (Y7 through Y18). One problem with that is their propensity for letter suffixes for accessories, such as the YE (for the extension), the YS (for the speeder), and even the YSD (for the screwdriver), where a stud puller would more likely be something like YSP. But it is interesting, does make sense as far as the logic of the theory goes, and makes me wonder what Y3 through Y6 might've been.

 

[r_olson_06]

If I'm following the logic of your intuition, Roy, you seem to be suggesting that maybe it's very early, before Plomb made and marketed the stud pullers as standalone items with their own nomenclatures (i.e., MSY8 and MSY10), when it may have been treated like an accessory to the female 9/16-inch drive Y socket set, given a Y prefix, and a number that was not already being used by the sockets (Y7 through Y18). One problem with that is their propensity for letter suffixes for accessories, such as the YE (for the extension), the YS (for the speeder), and even the YSD (for the screwdriver), where a stud puller would more likely be something like YSP. But it is interesting, does make sense as far as the logic of the theory goes, and makes me wonder what Y3 through Y6 might've been.

For sure. It is strange that it does have a Y in the stamping. I even check my earlier #2 Y series sockets to see if the 2 was the same style of the stamping and it was not.
There is another collector with the same piece that has a just a 2 on it vs Y2.
There may be some references in the early catalogs that may bridge the gap but for now the mystery remains.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I even check my earlier #2 Y series sockets to see if the 2 was the same style of the stamping and it was not.

?? I didn't know there was a Y2 socket. What size is it?! I've never found/don't have any of these, I was using the 1926, 1928 and 1929 catalogs, and they don't include any sockets smaller than the Y7 (7/16"). That blows the theory.

Edit: Maybe you're talking about comparing the "2" on the Y12 socket marking, but I don't know what you mean by "#2".

 

[r_olson_06]

?? I didn't know there was a Y2 socket. What size is it?! I've never found/don't have any of these, I was using the 1926, 1928 and 1929 catalogs, and they don't include any sockets smaller than the Y7 (7/16"). That blows the theory.

Edit: Maybe you're talking about comparing the "2" on the Y12 socket marking, but I don't know what you mean by "#2".

The 9/16" drive was the 1st general purpose socket set offered by plomb circa 1924ish. Prior to 1927 the 9/16" the sockets were stamped 1-11 starting at 1/2" through 1-1/8". They didn't leave any gaps and had to add a "spec" for a part number to cover the 13/16" that they must have added later. These early sockets are so early that they do not have the size stamped on them just the part number and Plombs name.
I dug deep when I started down this after finding probably the earliest example of these tucked in an ammo can at a farm estate sale about 10 years ago. These were so early that the tangs (male drive) of the sockets didn't have rentention balls.
Right I have 3 mostly complete sets of these pre 1927 and from what I have seen so far the post 1927 with the Y part numbers are harder to come by.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Prior to 1927 the 9/16" the sockets were stamped 1-11 starting at 1/2" through 1-1/8".

Interesting. That puts the "Y2" back into play as a possibility for a Y series dedicated stud puller accessory, after the earliest 9/16-inch drive production and marking scheme, and the later Y series 9/16-inch drive production and marking scheme (which ran from Y7 to Y18 by 16ths). You must mean prior to 1926, though. The 1926 catalog includes the Y socket set.

These were so early that the tangs (male drive) of the sockets didn't have retention balls.

My Herbrand set doesn't have any, either. Of all the 1920's male drive tang sets I have (Charles Miller, Mossberg, Syracuse, Chicago Mfging and Distributing, Eastern Machine Screw, and - less exotically, Herbrand), the only one with retention balls is the imports made by Spezial Werkzeuge Fabrik.

What is the date and number of that catalog?

 

[r_olson_06]

You are probably right on the 1926 date as I was base it on empirical data and only seeing 1927 date codes as the earliest date codes on the part number stamped tools.

I don't have a solid date on the catalog and honestly only have about 3/4 of it in digital format. From my understanding it doesn't have a catalog number nor any codes copyright date.

The only clue to the date of the catalog was the reference to a specialty tool for a "new" 23 Buick so it would have to be post 1923.

 

[Leviton]

Found a California Tool Co. D-14 tubing wrench. The 1960 catalog calls them tube or tubing wrenches rather than line or flare nut wrenches.

It is kind of interesting that some wrenches shown online are like those in the catalog and have the thick flare nut end protruding an equal distance on each side of the shank, and some, like mine, are asymmetrical with one side in line with the shank and the other side protruding a considerable amount. My wrench is 5.5" overall length and the factory markings are: "7/16 Calif-Tool D-14” .

The great thing about mine is that it was once owned by Mr. Plomb. You can see that he put his first initial in 5 places to make sure everyone knew it was his.

 

[d42jeep]

I received this large dual marked 1236 1-1/8” combo wrench from GemState10ER as my end of a P&C for Plomb trade.

Closeup of the markings.
It will make a nice addition to the dual marked box.
-Don

 

[r_olson_06]

Some recent pick ups.
An Early pre part number 978 wooden round o screwdriver likely 1920s
A run of -N series 3/4" sockets. These sockets are unique as they are similar to the WF but do not have the chamfer on the OD transitions.

Has anyone confirm the contract for this series? They appear to be cadmium finish so it would put it in war era likely.

 

[d42jeep]

A couple of estate sale finds from yesterday. A 1941 1/2” drive 3/4” deep socket and a 1936? offset screwdriver.
As found.


Cleaned up.
-Don

 

[r_olson_06]

A couple of estate sale finds from yesterday. A 1941 1/2” drive 3/4” deep socket and a 1936? offset screwdriver.
As found.


Cleaned up.
-Don

Those cleaned up nice!

 

[RubiconJK]

Some recent pick ups.
An Early pre part number 978 wooden round o screwdriver likely 1920s
A run of -N series 3/4" sockets. These sockets are unique as they are similar to the WF but do not have the chamfer on the OD transitions.

Has anyone confirm the contract for this series? They appear to be cadmium finish so it would put it in war era likely.

Congrats Roy! Those 3/4" N series are the first of that drive size I've seen and likely as rare if not even more rare than their WF counterparts. I've not seen any confirmation of the contract associated with the N designation either. I have a 1/2" drive ratchet and one or two wrenches IIRC with the N designation.

 

[d42jeep]

I wonder if the -N indicates that they were made for the Navy (not the NAF). Large P&C DBE wrenches have been found with a part number beginning with N as well as WF. I have a couple.
-Don

 

[r_olson_06]

Congrats Roy! Those 3/4" N series are the first of that drive size I've seen and likely as rare if not even more rare than their WF counterparts. I've not seen any confirmation of the contract associated with the N designation either. I have a 1/2" drive ratchet and one or two wrenches IIRC with the N designation.

They are odd. Looking closer at the WFs and the -N socket design I am confident they were made in different dies in the forging process. There is a chamfer on the drive end of the socket, there is a retention ball hole, and the transition from the drive to the socket ODs are more sharp compared to the WFs.

I wonder if the -N indicates that they were made for the Navy (not the NAF). Large P&C DBE wrenches have been found with a part number beginning with N as well as WF. I have a couple.
-Don

It could be. The funny part I just noticed a couple of weeks ago is the P&C N series and Plomb WF series have the same part numbers for the same size wrenches. That led me down a rabbit hole to see if any of the other missing WFs were possibly contracted under a P&C either N or WF part number.

 

[d42jeep]

I noticed that even though they had the same size box ends, the P&C WF-89 and the N89 were slightly different lengths. Definitely not identical.
-Don

 

[r_olson_06]

I noticed that even though they had the same size box ends, the P&C WF-89 and the N89 were slightly different lengths. Definitely not identical.
-Don

Good to know!

 

[MR.X]

Some recent pick ups.
An Early pre part number 978 wooden round o screwdriver likely 1920s
A run of -N series 3/4" sockets. These sockets are unique as they are similar to the WF but do not have the chamfer on the OD transitions.

Has anyone confirm the contract for this series? They appear to be cadmium finish so it would put it in war era likely.

Listed under Plumb/Plvmb. I sent that listing around to people I know who I thought might not have seen it but I guess the $70.00 + $10.00 was more than they were willing to pay. Usually only see these one at a time...Did you have any before these?

 

[r_olson_06]

Listed under Plumb/Plvmb. I sent that listing around to people I know who I thought might not have seen it but I guess the $70.00 + $10.00 was more than they were willing to pay. Usually only see these one at a time...Did you have any before these?

I had (1) 1-7/16" x 3/4" and (1) 2" x 1" prior to picking these up. I agree. Usually only see them in single sockets and hard to come by.

 

[Beerhippie]

I guess this is where Pennens goes?





Do I have a set from 7/16" to 3/4", or a collection?

These came out of this bunch:



So there's a chance that the 3/8, 5/16 and 1/4" are still in there somewhere.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

The funny part I just noticed a couple of weeks ago is the P&C N series and Plomb WF series have the same part numbers for the same size wrenches.

Couple different lengthy discussion on the P&C thread, including WPB contract records I posted.

In summary: P&C wartime contracts show that P&C had contracts with the Air Corps - undoubtedly the source of the "WF-" versions of these DBEs previously thought to be P&C helping Plomb fulfill Plomb Air Corps contracts, and with the Navy - almost certainly the source of the "N-" versions of these DBEs. One bugaboo was the "N-" numbering scheme, but that was a false issue, because the "WF-" numbering scheme was Plomb's, not the USAAF/Air Corps', and it makes sense that they would lift and shift it for their Navy production, simply swapping the prefixes. Note: the WF- and N- tools lists are not identical. There is an overlap, especially in the DBEs, but even there they made more and different configurations.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Empirically, there are actually more of the N- series DBE wrenches than WF- wrenches, fewer socket drives tools, though, so far. Also, the length specs are different. But the sizes DO correlate to the same part numbers. The most interesting thing is that the N- series wrenches imply that the WF- series numbering scheme probably came from Plomb, not the Air Corps. Because P&C used the same system for a completely different technical branch (Navy). See pages 19-22.

 

[r_olson_06]

Couple different lengthy discussion on the P&C thread, including WPB contract records I posted.

Thank you. I will have to give them a read.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

^ Nothing definitive. All logical inference.